Isreal just does'nt stop

[RGacky3]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/29/israel-west-bank-annexation_n_841851.html

Which I suppose means that Palestine will be getting land that has mostly palestinian residents right?

[Bud Struggle]

Is this for real or just sensationalism? They couldn't pick a worse time. Or maybe they want to get it in before the entire Arab world is in revolution. (Actually I think the revolutions there are pretty much over.)

[Viet Minh]

That will backfire big time, other nations are more likely to recognise Palestine in order to prevent this from happening.

[RGacky3]

This is essencially what Isreals goal was the whole time, get all of palestine.

[Bud Struggle]

This is essencially what Isreals goal was the whole time, get all of palestine.

I guess they may figure this is a good time to do it with the Arab world preoccupied with other matters.

[RGacky3]

I hate to be pessemistic, but I kind of think they're gonna get away with it.

[Che a chara]

Scum.

It is plausible to suggest that the bus bomb in Al-quds a false flag operation ? Was the Itamar massacre, as reported on Palestine news, carried out by an Asian immigrant worker who was was questioned and then released ?

I find it very convenient that prior to these attacks the Israeli government was very hostile and open about their intentions towards Gaza and the possibility for an 'Operation Cast Lead' mark2 was being discussed and also Israel's mass security in these areas and immense intelligence have yielded no definite conclusion, just harassment and arrests of innocent Palestine civilians. I'm normally not one for conspiracy theories, but something stinks about these recent events, leading Israel to try and gain sympathy for their dying cause and support to carry out more war crimes on the occupied territories.

[Dr Mindbender]

A 2 state solution isnt necessarilly the best for the Palestinians. If it happens, i would have 2 concerns.

1- It would legitimise the Israeli occupation, ensuring that the land will NEVER be returned to Palestinian ownership. Whats more it would set a precedence for other despotic adventures by other countries.

2-Israel would exploit a Palestinian state as a cheap source of labour. The relationship between the 2 states would be somewhat similar to the one between the USA and Mexico which doesnt bode well for the Palestinians.

I think the best solution would be a duel Jewish-arab state with full legal rights to both jewish and arab citizens. Unfortunately i dont think Zionist intransigence and bigotry will ever allow this.

[agnixie]

Was the Itamar massacre, as reported on Palestine news, carried out by an Asian immigrant worker who was was questioned and then released ?

I got the information from an Israeli newspaper.

[PhoenixAsh]

the problem is they will get away with it.

But it will sway massive support for the Palestinian cause in Europe.

[Viet Minh]

A 2 state solution isnt necessarilly the best for the Palestinians. If it happens, i would have 2 concerns.

1- It would legitimise the Israeli occupation, ensuring that the land will NEVER be returned to Palestinian ownership. Whats more it would set a precedence for other despotic adventures by other countries.

2-Israel would exploit a Palestinian state as a cheap source of labour. The relationship between the 2 states would be somewhat similar to the one between the USA and Mexico which doesnt bode well for the Palestinians.

I think the best solution would be a duel Jewish-arab state with full legal rights to both jewish and arab citizens. Unfortunately i dont think Zionist intransigence and bigotry will ever allow this.

The reason there is seperation is because of the widespread violence that occured, going back to that will be worse now after all these years of conflict. I would suggest the solution is something like temporary UN occupation, whilst the 1947 borders are re-administered.

Incidentally Arab citizens within Israel actually have the same legal rights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl9xPNLhPlg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbrIWyEhl8A


the problem is they will get away with it.

But it will sway massive support for the Palestinian cause in Europe.

I don't think so unfortunately, Israel has been doing this for years. Most people in Europe either don't care (and this won't change that) support Israel (not just their right to exist, but their aggression and incursion into Palestinian territory) or support Palestine already, be it Fatah, Hamas, PA or whatever. So all this will do is incite further tension, which is arguably exactly what 'the Zionist Imperialists' want.

[RGacky3]

Arab Isreali CITIZENS, no shit they have the same rights, they are citizens, but palestinians don't have the right of return and thus cannot get citizenship in isreal and thus don't have the same rights.

[danyboy27]

the indian removal act 2.0, now featuring the israeli in the role of the united state, and the palestinian in the role of the native indians.

The only difference is that, unlike u.s natives, their populations are not decreasing in number.

even after turning the palestinian against eachother, even after taking away their right has native, even after violence, siege isolation, terror, killing, land grab and destruction, those folks are still here and growing in numbers.

i personally think its really impressing.

[Viet Minh]

the indian removal act 2.0, now featuring the israeli in the role of the united state, and the palestinian in the role of the native indians.

The only difference is that, unlike u.s natives, their populations are not decreasing in number.

even after turning the palestinian against eachother, even after taking away their right has native, even after violence, siege isolation, terror, killing, land grab and destruction, those folks are still here and growing in numbers.

i personally think its really impressing.

they're not even given 'reservations' as the native americans had the 'privilige' all those years ago. Thats actually a very good analogy though.
Israel needs to stop expansion, right now. Regardless of Palestinian aggression. Palestinians will attack Israel no matter what, if they attack, if they retreat or if they just stand still. Israel needs to do the right thing and withdraw, they've made their point a million times over, they are stronger militarily and politically. If they need to build their walls higher to prevent rocket attacks so be it, but they need to do so on the 1947 borders.

[RGacky3]

Palestinians will attack Israel no matter what, if they attack, if they retreat or if they just stand still.

Thats a buch of shit and historically innaccurate, almost all the ceasefires have been broken by Isreal.

[Viet Minh]

Thats a buch of shit and historically innaccurate, almost all the ceasefires have been broken by Isreal.

Well then all the more reason to withdraw

[Dr Mindbender]

Incidentally Arab citizens within Israel actually have the same legal rights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl9xPNLhPlg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbrIWyEhl8A



Yes, arab CHRISTIAN Israelis. I used the term arab citizens to imply Palestinians of a hypothetical dual Jewish/muslim state. Palestinians are treated as second class citizens as has already been said.

Israel is in no way better than Apartheid South Africa. The difference is they cowardly hide behind the anti-semitism card so everyone is afraid to challenge them for fear of appearing racist.

[Viet Minh]

Yes, arab CHRISTIAN Israelis. I used the term arab citizens to imply Palestinians of a hypothetical dual Jewish/muslim state. Palestinians are treated as second class citizens as has already been said.

Israel is in no way better than Apartheid South Africa. The difference is they cowardly hide behind the anti-semitism card so everyone is afraid to challenge them for fear of appearing racist.

There are Arab Muslims in Israel as well, also Bedouin Muslims, Kurdish Muslims, thats exactly the reason criticism of Israel is NOT anti-semitism, because Israel also includes Christians, Muslims and Atheists as well as jews, not to mention many different races. So yeah saying any criticism of Israel is antisemitism or racism is absolute bullshit.

[9]

Scum.

It is plausible to suggest that the bus bomb in Al-quds a false flag operation ? Was the Itamar massacre, as reported on Palestine news, carried out by an Asian immigrant worker who was was questioned and then released ?

I find it very convenient that prior to these attacks the Israeli government was very hostile and open about their intentions towards Gaza and the possibility for an 'Operation Cast Lead' mark2 was being discussed

The fighting along the border with Gaza had been escalating for a week prior to the bus bombing (and several days prior to Livni's comment about 'using force like we did with Cast Lead'), with IAF strikes on Gaza (including one that reportedly missed its target, instead hitting a Palestinian family playing football nearby, killing iirc eight civilians including children) and waves of projectiles fired from the Strip into the Northern and Western Negev.

I don't know who is responsible for the bus bombing - it may have been Palestinian militants, it may not have been. I certainly don't find it hard to believe that it was, though, in light of the fighting and the deadly IAF strikes in the days preceding it. Actually, considering the belligerence of the IDF and the Israeli government, I'm surprised that similar kinds of bombings targeting Israeli civilians have been as rare as they have in recent years.

At any rate, I don't see any reason to think it was a 'false flag operation'; I think Livni was bluffing when she made the comment about 'another Cast Lead' - she is a bourgeois politician after all - and it looks to me at this point that in reality the government is actually trying to avoid an escalation on that scale, as I don't really think its all that politically feasible atm (of course I could be wrong about this but its the way that it looks to me).
Plus the fact that if it had all been planned by the state, then obviously they'd have wanted to take advantage of the climate of fear immediately and would have started delivering massively heavy blows against the Strip probably within hours - and certainly not within more than a couple days - following the bombing in Jerusalem, when the "self-defense" excuse would have had the most traction domestically and abroad.

So no, I don't really think its plausible.

[Che a chara]

The fighting along the border with Gaza had been escalating for a week prior to the bus bombing (and several days prior to Livni's comment about 'using force like we did with Cast Lead'), with IAF strikes on Gaza (including one that reportedly missed its target, instead hitting a Palestinian family playing football nearby, killing iirc eight civilians including children) and waves of projectiles fired from the Strip into the Northern and Western Negev.

I don't know who is responsible for the bus bombing - it may have been Palestinian militants, it may not have been. I certainly don't find it hard to believe that it was, though, in light of the fighting and the deadly IAF strikes in the days preceding it. Actually, considering the belligerence of the IDF and the Israeli government, I'm surprised that similar kinds of bombings targeting Israeli civilians have been as rare as they have in recent years.

At any rate, I don't see any reason to think it was a 'false flag operation'; I think Livni was bluffing when she made the comment about 'another Cast Lead' - she is a bourgeois politician after all - and it looks to me at this point that in reality the government is actually trying to avoid an escalation on that scale, as I don't really think its all that politically feasible atm (of course I could be wrong about this but its the way that it looks to me).
Plus the fact that if it had all been planned by the state, then obviously they'd have wanted to take advantage of the climate of fear immediately and would have started delivering massively heavy blows against the Strip probably within hours - and certainly not within more than a couple days - following the bombing in Jerusalem, when the "self-defense" excuse would have had the most traction domestically and abroad.

So no, I don't really think its plausible.

I find it very questionable that a disgruntled Palestinian could penetrate a highly secure Israeli settlement and carry out a slaughter without being approached or caught on watch or on camera and then apparently wander back into Palestine territory.

Standard procedure for militant Palestine bombings are suicide bombs that normally conclude in the deaths of many innocent civilians. My opinion is that the bomb was constructed to minimise deaths/injuries, yet enough to warrant further aggression on Gaza.

Israel has incomparable security and intelligence in the middle east, yet the 'culprits' were allowed to wander freely before and after the attacks without any apprehension. it just doesn't add up to me.

[agnixie]

Yes, arab CHRISTIAN Israelis. I used the term arab citizens to imply Palestinians of a hypothetical dual Jewish/muslim state. Palestinians are treated as second class citizens as has already been said.

Israel is in no way better than Apartheid South Africa. The difference is they cowardly hide behind the anti-semitism card so everyone is afraid to challenge them for fear of appearing racist.

There's christian palestinians and arab israeli muslims, too.

[RGacky3]

So what, do the palestinians get citizen status when the Isrealis kick them off their land, destroy their farms and homes to make settlements, do they get equal rights then? No I don't think so.