Letter to Male Activists from Sisters of Resistance

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

This is basically listing stereotypes of black people. Look at the "common phrases". The first one is a popular rap lyric from a song that was released recently. Congratulations Sisters Of Resistance, you wrote a quite racist essay.
It may be a stereotype of men, but that could just be a "gangsta" of any race from the Nuestro Familia (Nortenos), to the Latin Kings, to the GD's, to the Insane Popes, etc. or also wannabe gangsters of any race

[Jose Gracchus]

Although I've definitely been put off by the tellingly knee-jerk defensiveness of the male activists against the radical feminists [saying in effect, let us treat this like a real problem and stop pretending "business as usual" is a working model - it isn't] by mid way through this thread, and changed my mind, I do think its hard to portray those stereotypes as something other than stereotypes of black people. Maybe its due to living in the South my whole life, but I've never heard anyone call anyone a "gangsta" unless they are overtly referring to urban blacks, interested either in street gangs or merely fans of hip hop music.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I've heard people from Latino gangs call themselves "Gangsta". Also a lot of things in the description, etc are very true of gangs of multiple races. The bonehead gangs also tend to have many similar traits.

The Hell's Angels are a biker gang that is predominantly white and they've been known for sexism.

Gangs of just about any racial group tend to treat women like property.

[bricolage]

like I said before, if you really think two people living in Bow have had experience of dating all the non-black 'gangstas' you mention then ok but it really doesn't match up to any demographic reality.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I'll see your goddamn sexism charge, and raise you a racism charge!

[black magick hustla]

like I said before, if you really think two people living in Bow have had experience of dating all the non-black 'gangstas' you mention then ok but it really doesn't match up to any demographic reality.
actually ill believe it moonbats looooooooove authentic ghetto-strugglists dating someone from the hood is part of your revolutionary credentials

[black magick hustla]

thats from both sexes btw

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I'll see your goddamn sexism charge, and raise you a racism charge!
Kiss my chicana ass, ese.

[Ele'ill]

From what I hear, future silliness isn't going to be allowed in this thread and elsewhere outside of chitchat. A little preemptive perhaps but I understand how the ends of threads get while they're winding down.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Kiss my chicana ass, ese.

:ohmy:



From what I hear, future silliness isn't going to be allowed in this thread and elsewhere outside of chitchat. A little preemptive perhaps but I understand how the ends of threads get while they're winding down.

This is a good policy. Someone really needs to lay down the law in this thread...far too many ne'er-do-wells.

[HEAD ICE]

I've heard people from Latino gangs call themselves "Gangsta". Also a lot of things in the description, etc are very true of gangs of multiple races. The bonehead gangs also tend to have many similar traits.

The Hell's Angels are a biker gang that is predominantly white and they've been known for sexism.

Gangs of just about any racial group tend to treat women like property.

This is on the level when I hear white people raging about how "threatened" they feel about the "thugs" at the mall with their "sagging pants" and when you call them out on it they go "nuhhhhhhhhhh uhhhhhhhhhhh white people can be thugs too!"

[Ele'ill]

This is a good policy.

I know.

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry...but again...that description is aplicable to many ethnicities....though it may be originating with stereotypes of black people and the rap culture.

This culture has been fused into many youth cultures. and there is a great overlap in ethnic groups who emulate the stereotype. Not the least because of the popularity of the rap culture.

In Holland white kids who talked like, dressed like and listened to rap has steadilly grown and in behaviour and group dynamics there is very little distinction to be made between Maroccan, Surinam, and Dutch youth within that sub culture.

So saying that the description of a stereotype which is explicitly used as a stereotype for a subgroup is racist is stretching it a bit....especially because they calrified their view and use on it....its definately silly though...but not more or less than any such article on any magazine or internet page for whatever group.

I also think it does not belong in this thread....because wether or not the SoR are racist (which they are not IMO) or used racial stereotypes (which I think they did not but feel free to disagree) is not really relevant to the discussion.

[BankHeist]

Why is everyone assuming that the folks who condemned "gangsta" culture are white women?! Is there a basis for this assumption? Is it just assumed that all feminists are white? Further, is it assumed that any critical analysis of "gangsta" culture must be a heartless demonization of Black men?



Feminist critiques of the sexism and misogyny in gangsta rap, and in all aspects of popular culture, must continue to be bold and fierce. Black females must not be duped into supporting shit that hurts us under the guise of standing beside our men. If black men are betraying us through acts of male violence, we save ourselves and the race by resisting. Yet, our feminist critiques of black male sexism fail as meaningful political intervention if they seek to demonize black males, and do not recognize that our revolutionary work is to transform white supremacist capitalist patriarchy in the multiple areas of our lives where it is made manifest, whether in gangsta rap, the black church, or the Clinton administration.

--Bell Hooks

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

This is on the level when I hear white people raging about how "threatened" they feel about the "thugs" at the mall with their "sagging pants" and when you call them out on it they go "nuhhhhhhhhhh uhhhhhhhhhhh white people can be thugs too!"

I feel terribly threatened by hyper-masculine machismo. That is not limited to men of one particular race.

And I need to point out:

This is on the level when I hear white people raging about how "threatened"

Are you implying that I'm white? Really? I grew up hearing my dad tell me how he and his mom (mi abuelita) was denied entrance to stores in the south west when he was growing up because the stores had signs that said: "No Dogs No Mexicans"
I'm not white, I'm Chicana. Also as a woman, who happens to be Chicana, I feel threatened by machismo from any racial group. If a male dominated society had left you this brutalized, hyper-masculinity in any form would seem threatening to you.

[9]

This is on the level when I hear white people raging about how "threatened"

Are you implying that I'm white? Really? [...]
I'm not white, I'm Chicana.

don't take it personally, some of the boys who post here seem to have problems with projection.

[black magick hustla]

i like the term boys

[9]

i thought it was apt :D

[black magick hustla]

Are you implying that I'm white? Really? I grew up hearing my dad tell me how he and his mom (mi abuelita) was denied entrance to stores in the south west when he was growing up because the stores had signs that said: "No Dogs No Mexicans"
I'm not white, I'm Chicana. Also as a woman, who happens to be Chicana, I feel threatened by machismo from any racial group. If a male dominated society had left you this brutalized, hyper-masculinity in any form would seem threatening to you.
i think his point is that some people try to get away by using dumb stereotypes by saying it applies to a lot of people but anybody who has a half a brain knows the stereotype is racialized,

like he said. white kids talking about dudes with their pants sagging.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

i think his point is that some people try to get away by using dumb stereotypes by saying it applies to a lot of people but anybody who has a half a brain knows the stereotype is racialized,

like he said. white kids talking about dudes with their pants sagging.

Anybody who has been to the southside of Milwaukee, the predominantly Mexican neighborhood, knows that the pants sagging does cross racial lines.

But anyway, using my words as white kids anything is simply out there since I'm not white.

[black magick hustla]

Anybody who has been to the southside of Milwaukee, the predominantly Mexican neighborhood, knows that the pants sagging does cross racial lines.

But anyway, using my words as white kids anything is simply out there since I'm not white.
i dont think anybody did, we are talking about the article sistah

[HEAD ICE]

Are you implying that I'm white? Really? I grew up hearing my dad tell me how he and his mom (mi abuelita) was denied entrance to stores in the south west when he was growing up because the stores had signs that said: "No Dogs No Mexicans"
I'm not white, I'm Chicana. Also as a woman, who happens to be Chicana, I feel threatened by machismo from any racial group. If a male dominated society had left you this brutalized, hyper-masculinity in any form would seem threatening to you.

Oh look another Esperanza Xochitl "look at me" post. I was talking about the article, but if you wanted to use the opportunity to talk about yourself some more I guess that is fine.

[agnixie]

In conclusion, heres a picture of the number of shits given by male activists about the Sister of Resistance:


Their reply is probably something between "meh" and "cool story, bro". You seem to care a hell of a lot for someone who doesn't give a shit. Oh yeah, that's because you're a hypocrite.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Oh look another Esperanza Xochitl "look at me" post. I was talking about the article, but if you wanted to use the opportunity to talk about yourself some more I guess that is fine.
You used a quote of mine not from the article.

[Ele'ill]

In conclusion.. *weaksauce comment and picture*


Verbal warning and post trashed.

[psgchisolm]

i think his point is that some people try to get away by using dumb stereotypes by saying it applies to a lot of people but anybody who has a half a brain knows the stereotype is racialized,


Anybody who has been to the southside of Milwaukee, the predominantly Mexican neighborhood, knows that the pants sagging does cross racial lines.
The point is it's still racist. Regardless of what race it is it's mainly pointed at a specific group who are often seen as poster boys for their race. When you hear someone talking about people with sagging pants you don't think suburban white kids. You think black person/mexican person because of what you see on t.v. and the media.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

The point is it's still racist. Regardless of what race it is it's mainly pointed at a specific group who are often seen as poster boys for their race. When you hear someone talking about people with sagging pants you don't think suburban white kids. You think black person/mexican person because of what you see on t.v. and the media.
Actually the first thought that comes to my mind is some of the guys that came on to me in creepy ways. Many of them are white. I will never feel like I'm safe around any man I don't know regardless of race.


Especially since I can list the shows I watch on one hand. You probably shouldn't assume everyone watches enough tv for it to put an imprint on their mind.

[psgchisolm]

Especially since I can list the shows I watch on one hand. You probably shouldn't assume everyone watches enough tv for it to put an imprint on their mind.Of course not. That's what statistics are for.
http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html


I. FAMILY LIFE
Percentage of households that possess at least one television: 99
Number of TV sets in the average U.S. household: 2.24
Percentage of U.S. homes with three or more TV sets: 66
Number of hours per day that TV is on in an average U.S. home: 6 hours, 47 minutes
Percentage of Americans that regularly watch television while eating dinner: 66
Number of hours of TV watched annually by Americans: 250 billion
Value of that time assuming an average wage of S5/hour: S1.25 trillion
Percentage of Americans who pay for cable TV: 56
Number of videos rented daily in the U.S.: 6 million
Number of public library items checked out daily: 3 million
Percentage of Americans who say they watch too much TV: 49


II CHILDREN
Approximate number of studies examining TV's effects on children: 4,000
Number of minutes per week that parents spend in meaningful
conversation with their children: 3.5
Number of minutes per week that the average child watches television: 1,680
Percentage of day care centers that use TV during a typical day: 70
Percentage of parents who would like to limit their children's TV watching: 73
Percentage of 4-6 year-olds who, when asked to choose between watching TV
and spending time with their fathers, preferred television: 54
Hours per year the average American youth spends in school: 900 hours
Hours per year the average American youth watches television: 1500


III VIOLENCE
Number of murders seen on TV by the time an average child finishes elementary school: 8,000
Number of violent acts seen on TV by age 18: 200,000
Percentage of Americans who believe TV violence helps precipitate real life mayhem: 79


IV. COMMERCIALISM
Number of 30-second TV commercials seen in a year by an average child: 20,000
Number of TV commercials seen by the average person by age 65: 2 million
Percentage of survey participants (1993) who said that TV commercials
aimed at children make them too materialistic: 92
Rank of food products/fast-food restaurants among TV advertisements to kids: 1
Total spending by 100 leading TV advertisers in 1993: $15 billion


V. GENERAL
Percentage of local TV news broadcast time devoted to advertising: 30
Percentage devoted to stories about crime, disaster and war: 53.8
Percentage devoted to public service announcements: 0.7
Percentage of Americans who can name The Three Stooges: 59
Percentage who can name at least three justices of the U.S. Supreme Court: 17

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Of course not. That's what statistics are for.
http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html

Not everyone fits statistics. If I fit what statistics say about me I wouldn't be very likely alive now to type this.

[psgchisolm]

Not everyone fits statistics. If I fit what statistics say about me I wouldn't be very likely alive now to type this.Of course not. That's what percentages, averages, and medians are for. They give a rough idea of what the numbers are. They are in no way 100% indicative of everyone and everything. There are people who watch far more t.v. than you. So they are likely to get more idea's of the world from that. if the Average Number of hours a t.v. is on is nearly 7 hours, than that should tell you that there are more than a fair amount of people who watch alot more t.v. than you. You shouldn't assume everyone is as much an outlier or as impressionable as you.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Of course not. That's what percentages, averages, and medians are for. They give a rough idea of what the numbers are. They are in no way 100% indicative of everyone and everything. There are people who watch far more t.v. than you. So they are likely to get more idea's of the world from that. if the Average Number of hours a t.v. is on is nearly 7 hours, than that should tell you that there are more than a fair amount of people who watch alot more t.v. than you. You shouldn't assume everyone is as much an outlier or as impressionable as you.
So the small percentage of people who don't fit the statistics, like me, are just miss-haps to be disregarded.


What am I arguing about by the way? Because I forgot.

[psgchisolm]

So the small percentage of people who don't fit the statistics, like me, are just miss-haps to be disregarded.

What am I arguing about by the way? Because I forgot.Goooood job. You twist up mah words. When did I call you a mis-hap or say you should be disregarded? I actually agreed with you that stats don't show all the sides. Are you trying to make my post into a personal attack?

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Goooood job. You twist up mah words. When did I call you a mis-hap or say you should be disregarded? I actually agreed with you that stats don't show all the sides. Are you trying to make my post into a personal attack?



What am I arguing about by the way? Because I forgot.

A walking DSM postergirl like myself have oppositional defiance disorder? nawwww:rolleyes::p

I admitted that I forgot what I was arguing about, what better can you ask of me?