All We Need Is One Geo-Political Flashpoint And The American Economy Collapses

[Rakhmetov]

And the way the world is going on now, with all these uprisings in the Middle East, I believe a flashpoint is inevitable and a huge crisis is coming on the heels of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OqGzI9ySTY&feature=related

[Amphictyonis]

Alex Jones?

[Rakhmetov]

Alex Jones?


I emphasize Celente. BTW, have you looked through Jesse Ventura's book Conspiracy Therories? In that book Ventura calls Malcolm X one of his "heroes" and Che Guevara "another one of my heroes." Check it out.

[The Man]

Alex Jones?

Oh jeez, I didn't even watch the video, and then I saw this comment.

[Amphictyonis]

I emphasize Celente. BTW, have you looked through Jesse Ventura's book Conspiracy Therories? In that book Ventura calls Malcolm X one of his "heroes" and Che Guevara "another one of my heroes." Check it out.

I'll re-watch it and try to ignore Alex Jones if possible then post a reply :)

EDIT: I got to the 1:20 mark where he said the country is moving toward Ron Paul libertarian type positions and couldn't take any more. Sorry. Not trying to be rude. Can you summarize the point? Flashpoint? Not Big on Ventura but I do think the capitalist class has facilitated plenty of conspiracies. I just think focusing on the real in your face undeniable shitty aspects of capitalism is more productive. Conspiracy theories seem to obfuscate the actual structural mechanisms of capitalism.

[gestalt]

So we either harken back to the immortal screeds of the Apostle Lenin or turn to neo-survivalist, conspiratorial trend-forecasting.

Whatever happened to sound socioeconomic observation and analysis?

[Rakhmetov]

I'll re-watch it and try to ignore Alex Jones if possible then post a reply :)

EDIT: I got to the 1:20 mark where he said the country is moving toward Ron Paul libertarian type positions and couldn't take any more. Sorry. Not trying to be rude. Can you summarize the point? Flashpoint? Not Big on Ventura but I do think the capitalist class has facilitated plenty of conspiracies. I just think focusing on the real in your face undeniable shitty aspects of capitalism is more productive. Conspiracy theories seem to obfuscate the actual structural mechanisms of capitalism.



Economic depression + currency wars + trade wars = World War

[Rakhmetov]

So we either harken back to the immortal screeds of the Apostle Lenin or turn to neo-survivalist, conspiratorial trend-forecasting.

Whatever happened to sound socioeconomic observation and analysis?


And what? ... Lenin theorized that as the capitalist-imperialist countries have developed an extra reserve layer of fat they can forestall revolutionary uprisings. The revolution will occur first in the maldeveloped nations of the Third World where capitalism works at its most cruelly and cynically and there is no welfare safety net.

[gestalt]

I was speaking of general trends on this forum, at least in my short time here, to take such writings as gospel or to turn to modern diviners who lack any sort of anti-capitalist or class-based critique.

No one is doubting that these movements relate, in various ways, to the current global crisis of capitalism. But the idea that "all we need" is a flare-up to bring down the system from without or collapse it from within is fantastical. Where does awareness and solidarity among the global working class factor into this? Without these: depression, wars and ruination are just as likely to preserve the current order or give way to the predicted trade-off of barbarism as it is to socialism.

[bcbm]

and there is no welfare safety net.

this is being eroded in most developed nations

[Rusty Shackleford]

both world wars came out of inter-imperialist aspirations.

right now, the imperialists are al pretty much in lock step. germany just broke off from the nato attack on Libya though.

[piet11111]

both world wars came out of inter-imperialist aspirations.

right now, the imperialists are al pretty much in lock step. germany just broke off from the nato attack on Libya though.

You did see the hilarious lack of cooperation during the bail out talks for greece and ireland ?

The European Union never seemed so divided and if another round of bailouts would be necessary then it would give some very interesting tensions between the germans who have to pick up the tab and the french who try to make the germans pay.

[Rusty Shackleford]

You did see the hilarious lack of cooperation during the bail out talks for greece and ireland ?

The European Union never seemed so divided and if another round of bailouts would be necessary then it would give some very interesting tensions between the germans who have to pick up the tab and the french who try to make the germans pay.



isnt that how its always been since 1918? :lol:

[ckaihatsu]

Economic depression + currency wars + trade wars = World War


This was the case in the 20th century and so I'm inclined to agree with this line of reasoning, but I think world conditions are very different these days. For one thing the U.S. imperium is now vast and blanketing, with a near-complete hegemony that just feels like the default military, financial, and cultural standard for everyone in the world, if relatively scaled-back a peg or two compared to previous decades.

Note that there's now a "hyper-imperialism" in what could be called "Chinamerica" since the economies of the U.S. and China are so tightly woven together, along with other major economies in the EU and elsewhere. China has basically been the sweatshop to the world for a few decades now without which there would simply not be the cheap-labor production of commodity items for the global economy -- and, on the flipside, without *some* kind of continuing (debt-based) consumption from the developed / imperialist countries, the continuation of the capitalist game would also dissipate into thin air.

So there's now a creepy, unsettling conventionality to it all these days, and yet even *that* mass conformity isn't forestalling the inevitable crisis of the never-satisfied, ceaseless cycling of capital accumulation -- as we've seen since 2008 for the U.S. and in the sovereign debt crises in Europe.

But for lack of any possible palliatives *or* overhaul, capitalism's continuation is now ensured with a keystroke on a keyboard somewhere, adding increments of trillions of dollars at a time to the U.S. national debt -- really effectively serving as the throttle of sustained velocity for the U.S. and world economies indefinitely into the future. So, without any reality-based norms of balanced finance, the continuation of economic practice is simply about a mass shared pretense, now more than ever before.

Considering the price in human life that must be continuously paid to the machinery of military imperialism to keep this kind of tacit social consensus lurching onward, it may actually be *more* honest and dignified to return to the practice of ritual human sacrifice to keep the sun coming up each morning...(!)

[piet11111]

isnt that how its always been since 1918? :lol:

Yeah but this wasn't supposed to happen anymore with the european economical integration remember ?

[agnixie]

both world wars came out of inter-imperialist aspirations.

right now, the imperialists are al pretty much in lock step. germany just broke off from the nato attack on Libya though.

Japan is licking its wounds, China and India are having their turn at the african scramble, with the west largely backing India; Germany is having a break with NATO. America is the highest placed and can fall the hardest, and because Sarkozy is an idiot, his attempts to placate the far right only feeds it more. Like in 1914, for all the claims of how tightly globalized the economy was, the imperialist powers still went to war with each other. It doesn't take much to break a diplomatic system, and we currently have quite a wrench in the system, in my opinion.

As for the idea of economic + currency crisis; while the world wars themselves were partially imperialist competition, the rise of fascism itself came from the cracks in the imperial systems: those of the capitalist countries which fell apart the hardest turned to fascism the most (with a side of revanchism). I suspect it's far more integral to imperial capitalism than merely an anomaly of it.

Alex Jones and his ilk would be glad, though, since the fascists have quite a bit of advance on the shambles of the american left.

[agnixie]

Considering the price in human life that must be continuously paid to the machinery of military imperialism to keep this kind of tacit social consensus lurching onward, it may actually be *more* honest and dignified to return to the practice of ritual human sacrifice to keep the sun coming up each morning...(!)

The analysis is interesting, but I'll note a few points - while I don't believe in historical cyclicality, at least not as much as some people
- America on the eve of world war 2 had an even more overwhelming economy than it does today, with some estimates giving it about 40-50% of worldwide economic output. It's still high, but now down to 20% or less.
- The Chinamerica (to which I'd add India and EU countries that go on adventures of their own) situation is not that different from the blocs that led to world war 1, including the limited competition between both and economic interdependency. Economic interdependency in 1914 was also huge.
- Debt increases also stress the system
- I still don't think this will lead to a world war. However, I'm convinced that fascism is actually a component of the wane of imperialist systems. At the very least an economic crisis is the kind of situation that can radicalize populations, and the fully reborn american fascists have quite a bit of advance on the shambles of the US left.