Question about Stalinism/Maoism

[The Man]

Can you be a Stalinist/Maoist and not support some sort of dictator, or totalitarian ruler? Do Stalinists/Maoists support Worker's Councils/Direct Democracy?

How can Socialism work in one country?

[Robespierre Richard]

Can you be a Stalinist/Maoist and not support some sort of dictator, or totalitarian ruler? Do Stalinists/Maoists support Worker's Councils/Direct Democracy?

Sure


How can Socialism work in one country?

Better than socialism in no country, I guess...

[thälmann]

what does dictator mean? stalinists( i guess you mean marxists-leninists) have of course the aim, like all marxists, to establish the dictatorship of the proletariat. but this kind of system needs worker councils...etc...the same for maoists i think...

[Rafiq]

Can you be a Stalinist/Maoist and not support some sort of dictator, or totalitarian ruler? Do Stalinists/Maoists support Worker's Councils/Direct Democracy?

How can Socialism work in one country?

1.

Stalinists do not advocate rule by councils or direct democracy.

Maoists may advocate something more democratic, but still, no, especially not direct democracy.

2. It can't work in one country. Not for a long time at least.

[Rooster]

If socialism in one country worked then the rest of the world would be socialist by now.

[Geiseric]

They're as socialist as the central committee allows. Maoism led to the shithole we know as china, and stalinism led to the shithole we knew as Stalin era U.S.S.R. They're both run by beurecratic castes, the wealth was increadibly centralised, and they gave communism a worse name than the ''imperialist propaganda'' as they call it could possibly persuade people to believe in.

You be the judge.

[The Man]

what does dictator mean? stalinists( i guess you mean marxists-leninists) have of course the aim, like all marxists, to establish the dictatorship of the proletariat. but this kind of system needs worker councils...etc...the same for maoists i think...

I'm not talking about DOTP. I'm talking about some sort of Premier.

[Astarte]

Can you be a Stalinist/Maoist and not support some sort of dictator, or totalitarian ruler? Do Stalinists/Maoists support Worker's Councils/Direct Democracy?

How can Socialism work in one country?

Well, we have to differentiate between "Stalinist" and "Maoist", first of all. When one says "Stalinist", generally it is impossible to conceive of such a political condition without there being a centralized party bureaucracy in control of the state and through the state the means of production. At the head of the party bureaucracy usually power is centralized into one person's hands, or at best an oligarchy.

This question in terms of "Maoism" is a bit different, since they tend to be found when not in power as guerrillas, especially in the third world... but even then they tend to have their "heroes of the people"... subcomandante marcos, ho chi mihn, bob avakian...

I don't think Stalinists would ever support workers' councils/direct democracy while they are in power - but only while maneuvering to be in position to take party and state power by way of a bonapartist (or maybe even caesarian is possible...) power play.

Socialism in one country can never start to even hope to begin the process of the pacification of existence because it is still in conflict with the capitalist powers of the world, economically, politically and culturally... thus i feel "socialism in one country" can at best achieve production and living standard levels quantitatively on par with hegemonic imperialist powers.

[The Man]

Well, we have to differentiate between "Stalinist" and "Maoist", first of all. When one says "Stalinist", generally it is impossible to conceive of such a political condition without there being a centralized party bureaucracy in control of the state and through the state the means of production. At the head of the party bureaucracy usually power is centralized into one person's hands, or at best an oligarchy.

This question in terms of "Maoism" is a bit different, since they tend to be found when not in power as guerrillas, especially in the third world... but even then they tend to have their "heroes of the people"... subcomandante marcos, ho chi mihn, bob avakian...

I don't think Stalinists would ever support workers' councils/direct democracy while they are in power - but only while maneuvering to be in position to take party and state power by way of a bonapartist (or maybe even caesarian is possible...) power play.

Socialism in one country can never start to even hope to begin the process of the pacification of existence because it is still in conflict with the capitalist powers of the world, economically, politically and culturally... thus i feel "socialism in one country" can at best achieve production and living standard levels quantitatively on par with hegemonic imperialist powers.

So let me just get this clear. Maoism, is not necessarily in support of Mao as a leader, but rather it's a strategic ideology to get to the end-goal of Communism? So Maoists usually support Worker's Councils and Direct Democracy without some sort of totalitarian premier?

[Rjevan]

Can you be a Stalinist/Maoist and not support some sort of dictator, or totalitarian ruler?
To answer this question it's necessary to clarify what your understanding of "totalitarian" is. Comrade thälmann already pretty much said everything necessary, we support the dictatorship of the proletariat like every Marxist and the Bolshevik line on soviets (worker councils). But neither "Stalinists" (= Marxist-Leninists) nor Maoists support some kind of all-powerful Führer who stands above everything and everybody and holds complete authority. This is an utterly false and distorted view of Marxism-Leninism and the USSR promoted by anti-communists. It basically makes no difference between the political systems of Nazi Germany and the USSR. I'd suggest you have a look at this article (http://theredphoenixapl.org/2009/09/10/the-myth-of-totalitarianism/) about the intentions behind using the term "totalitarianism". This one (http://clogic.eserver.org/2005/furr.html) might be also interesting to get an idea of Stalin's views on democracy and the "totalitarian" power he was actually far from holding.


Maoism, is not necessarily in support of Mao as a leader, but rather it's a strategic ideology to get to the end-goal of Communism?
Maoists of course support Mao, otherwise they'd choose another name for their tendency. ;)

What's important is that they support him to different degrees, have criticism about him and acknowledge that he made mistakes. Same goes for the Marxist-Leninist view on Stalin (and Lenin, Hoxha and everybody else), we are fully aware that he made mistakes and was no perfect being but a human like everybody else. We don't support Marxism-Leninism because Stalin's mustache was so epic but because we view it as the "strategic ideology to get to the end-goal of Communism" and hold that Stalin (and other MLs) overall consistently defended, expanded, pursued and implemented the theories and policies of Marx, Engels and Lenin.

[Astarte]

So let me just get this clear. Maoism, is not necessarily in support of Mao as a leader, but rather it's a strategic ideology to get to the end-goal of Communism? So Maoists usually support Worker's Councils and Direct Democracy without some sort of totalitarian premier?

Maoism, in revolutionary form, i.e. not in state power is mostly a strategic ideology I would say, relying more so on the rural poor peasantry than on urban proletariat. Like any revolutionary movement it is bound to be more "democratic" while revolutionizing than in state power. Where ever it occurs though it will still follow the pattern of having a Generalissimo, or at best, some kind of vanguard party oligarchism.