5 most shockingly insane modern dictators (all leninists)

[RGacky3]

http://www.cracked.com/article_19095_the-5-most-shockingly-insane-modern-dictators.html

[Manic Impressive]

why did you post that steaming pile of manure?

[RGacky3]

A: Its funny
B: Apparently many leninist dictators that leninist tools look up to were insane.

[Sasha]

because admittedly it gave me some chuckles... sure its al "vice" style and not really completly historical factual and all but hey, water is wet, no point in debating how wet exactly

[Sasha]

although i did miss Idi Amin, Mengistu haile mariam, Ghadaffi and some other african nutcases in that list. Sure hoxa was a nutcase but he pales besides the last king of scotland and surely mao should rank well below ceacestku

[Manic Impressive]

ok I did find one bit mildly interesting; that Ceausescu was knighted by the queen of England

[Manic Impressive]

A: Its funny
B: Apparently many leninist dictators that leninist tools look up to were insane.
So you are posting right wing anti communist propaganda to flame Marxist-Leninists?

[RGacky3]

If only half of that stuff is true, its pretty damn damning.

[Obs]

Ceausescu and Ne Win weren't Leninists by any stretch of imagination.

[#FF0000]

If only half of that stuff is true, its pretty damn damning.

if you're dumb, I guess it is.

[Havet]

I read cracked daily, so i'm used to this type of humour. Sure, there are worse dictators out there. And sure, sometimes their sources are not the best. But it ultimately does more good than bad. In the words of the wise xkcd:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/unscientific.png

The increase in knowledge gained by reading cracked excuses any lack of source rigor they might not include

If anything, cracked pushes people to question their basic belifs, and to actually follow the sources cracked links to

[Thug Lessons]

David Letterman's Top Ten Leninists

[RGacky3]

if you're dumb, I guess it is.

Really

"Hoxha forbade the ownership of color televisions and typewriters all the way until the 1980s, because they were a distraction from the true Albanian way of life, which was, of course, communism. The color television part wasn't that bad -- they became prevalent only in the 60s -- but godammit, the typewriter was invented in 1870. Then, he banned beards (http://www.economist.com/node/16743613). You know, because they're incompatible with communism."

Thats not a little bit crazy? is it NOT true?

"Hoxha kidnapped a dentist in rural Albania who looked sort of like him, then forced plastic surgery on him to make the resemblance even more uncanny."

Not at all crazy to you? Is that cool?

Or for the Maoists

"The only genius was declared to be Mao himself (people were taught (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A5141369) to repeat the phrase, "Chairman Mao is a genius, everything the Chairman says is greatly true; one of the Chairman's words will override the meaning of ten thousand of ours.")"


Thats normal too you? Absolutely fine?

"Universities were closed down, and professors and students were sent to the countryside to be "re-educated" through labor."

Thats a good idea to you right? Not at all a bit stupid.

Don't even get me started on Kim.

Is all this stuff just lies?

[Thug Lessons]

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that David Letterman is an asshole and lunatic who, among other things, paid for his multi-million dollar house with suitcases full of hundred dollar bills. David Letterman's Top Ten. David Letterman's "Will it float?". David Letterman's Fuck Barn

[Dimentio]

In before thread is locked/shitstorm ensues.

[Dimentio]

My favourite is Nero. If reincarnation was true, I would be a reincarnation of Nero.

[hatzel]

My favourite is Nero. If reincarnation was true, I would be a reincarnation of Nero.

I'm not sure if we get to choose for ourselves who we would have been in a previous life...:(

[Os Cangaceiros]

Hahaha loved the dig at Hoxha's bunkers. :lol: Classic.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Although considering the geopolitical situation of the time, building a fuck-ton of bunkers in your country probably makes more sense than a lot of the other examples cited.

[Amphictyonis]

Dictator Harry Truman dropped nuclear bombs on Japan. Representative of Plutocracy Incorporated USA Dictator Obama is assassinating his own citizens. Dictator Bush was responsible for a million or so deaths as a result of the Afghan/Iraq wars. Dictator Obama is carrying that torch. Dictator Johnson, Kissinger and Mcnamara formed a three man team which was responsible for all manner of murder in Vietnam and South America. They even used the "invisible hand" of the World Bank to starve millions to death. It goes on. The train that is the USA death machine goes on no matter who is in office the agenda stays the same. To act as if we have a democracy is more than naive and to call other (in some cases idiot) leaders "dictators" is a tad suspect to me.

[Spawn of Stalin]

There is no way Mao or Kim il Sung were more insane than Hoxha

[Amphictyonis]

My favourite is Nero. If reincarnation was true, I would be a reincarnation of Nero.

You want to have sex with your own mother? Feed some Christians to the lions? Burn down the best library in the world? I might feed some Christians to the lions but.....:)

[Spawn of Stalin]

Is it refreshing or disturbing that Hitler does not appear on this dictator list, usually he would be #2.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Dictator Harry Truman dropped nuclear bombs on Japan. Representative of Plutocracy Incorporated USA Dictator Obama is assassinating his own citizens. Dictator Bush was responsible for a million or so deaths as a result of the Afghan/Iraq wars. Dictator Obama is carrying that torch. Dictator Johnson, Kissinger and Mcnamara formed a three man team which was responsible for all manner of murder in Vietnam and South America. They even used the "invisible hand" of the World Bank to starve millions to death. It goes on. The train that is the USA death machine goes on no matter who is in office the agenda stays the same. To act as if we have a democracy is more than naive and to call other (in some cases idiot) leaders "dictators" is a tad suspect to me.

The list is not about dictators and how horrible they are...it's about dictators and how eccentric they are. So LBJ bombing southeast Asia wouldn't apply. Perhaps him singing along with his dog would, though.

http://www.graciesbark.com/.a/6a012875cc3770970c014e5f99351a970c-800wi

[Dimentio]

I'm not sure if we get to choose for ourselves who we would have been in a previous life...:(

cETzMxRqDwY

<3

[Amphictyonis]

The list is not about dictators and how horrible they are...it's about dictators and how eccentric they are. So LBJ bombing southeast Asia wouldn't apply. Perhaps him singing along with his dog would, though.

http://www.graciesbark.com/.a/6a012875cc3770970c014e5f99351a970c-800wi

I would think unchecked power would drive a person mad

sCaf3n3n86U
My vote is with Palpatine.

[Robespierre Richard]

Fun fact reading Lenin makes you go insane and lose all your hair.

[Amphictyonis]

Fun fact reading Lenin makes you go insane and lose all your hair.

Thats treason. Lenin IS the senate.


KKH9SlrYp98
Am I the only one who gets turned on by the sound of a light saber igniting?

[Os Cangaceiros]

Is it refreshing or disturbing that Hitler does not appear on this dictator list, usually he would be #2.

I vote refreshing. Hitler is old hat when it comes to lists of dictators.

[Dimentio]

Hitler was an amateur in comparison with Nero.

Just an Emo who liked to sit on cafeterias and discuss how he would rebuild Linz with Kubizek, when he wasn't stalking girls.

Nero was even more superficial and childish.

[RadioRaheem84]

The trick is to only include leaders who massacred their own people.

If the list was about leaders who have killed people abroad then every US President especially from Truman on down would be on the list.

[Dimentio]

The trick is to only include leaders who massacred their own people.

If the list was about leaders who have killed people abroad then every US President especially from Truman on down would be on the list.

Hoxha did not as far as I know conduct any massacre on the Albanians. He was a bit eccentric though and built his bunker system.

It was more a matter of eccentrity than of massacres.

[RGacky3]

Dictator Harry Truman dropped nuclear bombs on Japan. Representative of Plutocracy Incorporated USA Dictator Obama is assassinating his own citizens. Dictator Bush was responsible for a million or so deaths as a result of the Afghan/Iraq wars. Dictator Obama is carrying that torch. Dictator Johnson, Kissinger and Mcnamara formed a three man team which was responsible for all manner of murder in Vietnam and South America. They even used the "invisible hand" of the World Bank to starve millions to death. It goes on. The train that is the USA death machine goes on no matter who is in office the agenda stays the same. To act as if we have a democracy is more than naive and to call other (in some cases idiot) leaders "dictators" is a tad suspect to me.

Absolutely and no one is arguing that, no one is making that point. I am making a point, is going around worshiping lunatics like Mao and Hoaxa and using THEIR model as a way forward is stupid.

[ComradeMan]

My favourite is Nero. If reincarnation was true, I would be a reincarnation of Nero.

Nero was a paragon of virtue in comparison to Caligula. :D
But they all learned their stuff from Uncle Tiberius! ;)

[BIG BROTHER]

I wouldn't take any of this personally unless your version of Lennism means having crazy dictators.

One thing they mention is kinda funny/weird, why would Hoxha build bunkers for only one person?!

[Manic Impressive]

I wouldn't take any of this personally unless your version of Lennism means having crazy dictators.

One thing they mention is kinda funny/weird, why would Hoxha build bunkers for only one person?!
to each according his bunker to each according their threat of invasion?

[mosfeld]

Why would you post anti-communist garbage like this?

[RGacky3]

Its anti-Leninist.

[Manic Impressive]

Its anti-Leninist.
No it's not. Most of the demographic it's aimed at will not make the distinction between M-L and any other kind of socialism especially as the article doesn't make that distinction. The article basically says "these are the 5 worst dictators and guess what they're all communists" It's right wing propaganda which you posted in an attempt to piss off some M-L's.

[hatzel]

No it's not. Most of the demographic it's aimed at will not make the distinction between M-L and any other kind of socialism especially as the article doesn't make that distinction. The article basically says "these are the 5 worst dictators and guess what they're all communists" It's right wing propaganda which you posted in an attempt to piss off some M-L's.

Luckily this is OI so it makes literally no difference to anything :)

[Robespierre Richard]

Next well be hearing that Mobutu and Pinochet were Leninists too.

[Tim Finnegan]

The Burmese Way to Socialism wasn't Leninist. At most, it claimed some imprecise Marxism, but its embrace of both racial ultranationalism and the established religious hierarchy would seem to cast that in to a pit of doubt so deep you'd escape quicker by just digging through to Australia.

Edit: Just read the bit about Lin Feng. Jesus, can you say "Comrade Ogilvy"? :bored:

Also, it turns out that, despite RGacky3's guffaws, they managed to cover another seven uniformly non-Marxist dictators (at least, if you're too sensible to mistake Juche for anything even tangentially related to Marxism) a few months previously (http://www.cracked.com/article_18850_7-modern-dictators-way-crazier-than-you-thought-possible.html). So, apparently, we're really just looking at numbers 8-12, here.

[RGacky3]

All except for the first come from the leninist tradition.

[#FF0000]

All except for the first come from the leninist tradition.

clearly this means all of leninism is bad.

nevermind that one of the most influential anarchist thinkers was an outspoken anti-semite.

[RGacky3]

nevermind that one of the most influential anarchist thinkers was an outspoken anti-semite.

Ok, but Anarchism in action did'nt lead to the terror that was the leninist states.


clearly this means all of leninism is bad.


Leninism has been tried, and we see what it creates.

[manic expression]

All except for the first come from the leninist tradition.
If we're making capitalist yuppies shake in their boat shoes, we must be doing something right.

[RGacky3]

But your not.

[#FF0000]

Ok, but Anarchism in action did'nt lead to the terror that was the leninist states.

I think by now we all know the response to this is "Anarchism in action didn't lead to anything".

Not that I think that's an entirely fair thing to say.


Leninism has been tried, and we see what it creates.

Man, you are fucking dumb if you think Stalin and co. are the only proponents of "Leninism" that exist and that there can't be anything of value found in Lenin's work.

[Roach]

There is no way Mao or Kim il Sung were more insane than Hoxha


Sorry but I think you are completely wrong. None of them were by any means insane.

[manic expression]

But your not.
What do you call the list you just posted? Capitalists are scared of leaders like Mao and Kim Il Sung (they're labelled t3h most shockingly insane!!one!eleven!!!!), and so they call them "crazy" in order to make their ideas and societies appear better without dealing with the actual history. It's the same way capitalists try lecturing people about Indian culture after they've had Tikka Masala for takeout. They can only pretend to have knowledge from a distance...because they can't confront the reality of it.

[gorillafuck]

The key thing to determine whether a dictator is insane is to 1) see if the US has favorable opinions towards them. It doesn't? Likely insane. 2) Get bizarre stories about this dictator from shady sources. Found 'em? Definitely insane.

You see, Mobutu fails on number 1.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Ok, but Anarchism in action did'nt lead to the terror that was the leninist states.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Anarchist praxis made the wealthy look warily from their carriage windows, lest a stick of dynamite was thrown in. Anarchists (or at least those who are today considered anarchists by academia) were responsible for the deaths of heads of state in the USA, Russia, and Italy. A member of the Austrian royal family was stabbed to death by an anarchist. Anarchists also made attempts on the lives of leaders in Ireland, Britain, Germany and elsewhere leading up to WW1. That's without even going into anarchist conduct in the years leading up to (and during) the Spanish Civil War! Anarchists loved terror. Hell, they still kind of do...just go on anarchistnews.org, look up the article about the Indian boss being burned alive by workers and read the comments section.

Anarchists didn't inflict terror w/ the same effeciency that Stalinists did because they were anarchists. It's like saying that Quakers are better than Catholics because they didn't plunder foreign lands for treasure.

[BIG BROTHER]

I really don't see why we need to defend this "Leninist" regimes as if they were what we aspire when we say we want a revolution and a workers state.

Lenin and original Bolsheviks were fought for the overthrow of capitalism and the establishment of the world's best democracy, the soviet state. This so called "Leninist" are the part of the burocratic caste that drowned the revolutions and became an obstacle itself for the establishment of socialism.

That being said, capitalists and other ideological enemies love to pair up the term "Leninism" with those burocratic regimes as a way to dismiss and easily attack Marxism and its best expression Leninism.

[Tim Finnegan]

All except for the first come from the leninist tradition.
Yes, you've said. What's about the additional seven that were listed in my link? None of them were Marxists of any variety, while there are plenty of perfectly sane Marxist-Leninists one could name- Castro, Ho, Tito, etc.- so there's no real correlation being established between Leninist and craziness.

Also, the entry on Mao was pretty weak. It showed that he was arrogant, incompetent and a pathological liar, but not that he was "crazy". Honestly, that's probably the last thing you could say about the bugger.


What do you call the list you just posted? Capitalists are scared of leaders like Mao and Kim Il Sung (they're labelled t3h most shockingly insane!!one!eleven!!!!), and so they call them "crazy" in order to make their ideas and societies appear better without dealing with the actual history. It's the same way capitalists try lecturing people about Indian culture after they've had Tikka Masala for takeout. They can only pretend to have knowledge from a distance...because they can't confront the reality of it.
True. Richard Seymour recently wrote about this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/22/gaddafi-demonology-media) in relation to the current depictions of Gaddafi in the British press.

[RGacky3]

Also, the entry on Mao was pretty weak. It showed that he was arrogant, incompetent and a pathological liar, but not that he was "crazy". Honestly, that's probably the last thing you could say about the bugger.


I agree.


None of them were Marxists of any variety, while there are plenty of perfectly sane Marxist-Leninists one could name- Castro, Ho, Tito, etc.- so there's no real correlation being established between Leninist and craziness.


Sure, but its a pretty large percentage, and they were all dictators.

[Apoi_Viitor]

Did Hoxha really outlaw beards?

[mosfeld]

Did Hoxha really outlaw beards?

They were considered filthy.

[Omsk]

Incestuous marriages are legal.


It is illegal to impersonate a person of the clergy.


It is illegal to maim oneself to escape duty.


If an organization non registered as “non-profit” fails to register their raffle with the local sheriff, that group risks paying up to $10,000 in fines and spending five years in jail.


While Georgia operates its own lottery, it “protects” its citizens by making it illegal to promote a private lottery..


The term “sadomasochistic abuse” is defined so broadly, that it could possibly be applied to a person handcuffing another in a clown suit.


Persons may not be drunk on trains.


Idiots may not vote.

Talk about crazy laws and prohibitions..
Nice going US..Pf.

[Ismail]

Considering I'm probably the most well read person on 1944-1985 Albania here, I'll comment.


Hoxha forbade the ownership of color televisions and typewriters all the way until the 1980s, because they were a distraction from the true Albanian way of life, which was, of course, communism.Bullshit. Into the 1970's TV in Albania was a rarity, and where it did exist people had access to Italian and Yugoslav TV channels. Colored TV was introduced in the early 1980's. Typewriters weren't "banned," you just needed a permit to own one.

Beards were banned mostly because of their association with Orthodox and Muslim religious leaders.


Hoxha kidnapped a dentist in rural Albania who looked sort of like him, then forced plastic surgery on him to make the resemblance even more uncanny."Biografi" (the source for this) has been described as "semifactual" and it's hard to distinguish fact from distorted information to fiction in it. The personalization of events here ("ENVER HOXHA KIDNAPPED A DENTIST AND MADE HIM INTO HIS EXACT LIKENESS WHILE CACKLING LIKE A MEGALOMANIAC") doesn't help either. The book itself is based on the guy trying to find the supposed dentist-turned-bodydouble anyway.

The bunkers stuff isn't "insane." It isn't like Hoxha summoned a bunch of construction workers to his underground lair, pointed his finger at a map of Albania and shouted "THOU SHALT BUILD THY BUNKERS OR THEE SHALL ENDURE DOOM." The Party felt it'd be a good idea. Whatever their lasting effects, Albanian living standards and industry continued to rise up until the mid-1980's. The bunkers are irrelevant.

So basically there's nothing showing Hoxha's "craziness." James S. O'Donnell in his work A Coming of Age: Albania Under Enver Hoxha called Hoxha "the best-read head of state in Eastern Europe." In Peter Prifti's book Socialist Albania Since 1944, he says that, "He might well be pictured as holding the sword of dictatorship of the proletariat in one hand and the Western 'lamp of learning' in the other." There is also Jon Halliday, whose book The Artful Albanian called him "far too intelligent" in comparison with other East European leaders. I have never read a single book on Albania that describes Hoxha as "insane," and only a few called him "eccentric." Most called him "Stalinist" or "dogmatic."

[Tim Finnegan]

Sure, but its a pretty large percentage, and they were all dictators.
I think it's "dictators" that might be the key, there, not "Marxist-Leninist". You find crazy despots as far back as recorded history goes. Kinda what happens when you hand near-absolute power to one guy.


Y'know what is a uniform feature of insane dictators, though? They're all blokes. Not a woman among them. Maybe see how your correlation-is-causation formula looks know, eh? :rolleyes:

[Ismail]

Y'know what is a uniform feature of insane dictators, though? They're all blokes. Not a woman among them. Maybe see how your correlation-is-causation formula looks know, eh? :rolleyes:Well Jiang Qing was said to have had more control than Mao in his last years (that view was promoted by the Dengists in particular.)

[southernmissfan]

Well Jiang Qing was said to have had more control than Mao in his last years (that view was promoted by the Dengists in particular.)

But then that means Mao wasn't an evil demigod figure who maniacally controlled every aspect of China!!!!!!1!

I don't know if it's just a tendency to oversimplify things, continued popularity of the "Great Man of History" theory or what. But even in the United States any praise or criticism of the system is almost entirely focused on the individual president. As if Bush or Obama has some sort of magical control on the situation. When looking at "enemy" countries, this line of thought is taken to such an extreme to become ludicrous. Even if one has no concept of materialist analysis, simply looking at the political structures of many "dictatorships" (real or exaggerated) reveals that it goes beyond some all knowing, all powerful madman ruling by whim.

By the way Ismail, thanks for your informative post on Hoxha. I am far from a Hoxhaist or Stalinist or anything of the like, but it's always nice to see legitimate research and informed opinions.

[Manic Impressive]

I think it's "dictators" that might be the key, there, not "Marxist-Leninist". You find crazy despots as far back as recorded history goes. Kinda what happens when you hand near-absolute power to one guy.


Y'know what is a uniform feature of insane dictators, though? They're all blokes. Not a woman among them. Maybe see how your correlation-is-causation formula looks know, eh? :rolleyes:
Maggie Thatcher was pretty loopy or pure evil it's hard to choose between the two. You know she banned facial hair amongst her cabinet members because she thought that it made them look untrustworthy.

[Roach]

It's not like if you forgot just one day to shave the Albanian secret police would break into your house, torture you, and send you to a gulag.

Your friends and co-workers would simply warn you that this action did not correspond to the national communist moral, if ignored they would ask the party to talk to you and if you insisted in keeping the beard, you would be ridiculed in public. Foreigners would only be stoped in the airports to shave during the 60's when Albania passed through something similar to the Cultural Revolution, after that you could visit Albania having a moustache or a beard, but you had to get used to people staring at you.

[Tim Finnegan]

Maggie Thatcher was pretty loopy or pure evil it's hard to choose between the two. You know she banned facial hair amongst her cabinet members because she thought that it made them look untrustworthy.
Thatcher was, at least for most of her reign, stone cold sober, a class warrior extraordinaire. The "untrustworthy beards" thing was just part of the careful self-presentation that any ruling entity adopts- its significant because that rigorous pandering to the media spotlight was still novel at the time, not because there's anything irrational about it. (I mean, think about it- who was the single bearded world figure (http://www.nndb.com/people/118/000023049/fidel-castro-sm.jpg) at that time?) She may have slipped a bit in her later years, let it go to her head, but she was no loon.

[Ismail]

Apparently Bob Avakian went to Albania in the late 60's and got his ponytail cut off by the authorities, but I've found no source for it. Albania didn't like tourism and only accepted political supporters.

[RGacky3]

Not a woman among them.

In modern history yeah, but Queen Victoria was a *****.


Well, I wouldn't say that. Anarchist praxis made the wealthy look warily from their carriage windows, lest a stick of dynamite was thrown in. Anarchists (or at least those who are today considered anarchists by academia) were responsible for the deaths of heads of state in the USA, Russia, and Italy. A member of the Austrian royal family was stabbed to death by an anarchist. Anarchists also made attempts on the lives of leaders in Ireland, Britain, Germany and elsewhere leading up to WW1. That's without even going into anarchist conduct in the years leading up to (and during) the Spanish Civil War! Anarchists loved terror. Hell, they still kind of do...just go on anarchistnews.org, look up the article about the Indian boss being burned alive by workers and read the comments section.

Anarchists didn't inflict terror w/ the same effeciency that Stalinists did because they were anarchists. It's like saying that Quakers are better than Catholics because they didn't plunder foreign lands for treasure.

What your talking about was revolutionary action, not systematic state terror, not a society based on political terror.


"Biografi" (the source for this) has been described as "semifactual" and it's hard to distinguish fact from distorted information to fiction in it. The personalization of events here ("ENVER HOXHA KIDNAPPED A DENTIST AND MADE HIM INTO HIS EXACT LIKENESS WHILE CACKLING LIKE A MEGALOMANIAC") doesn't help either. The book itself is based on the guy trying to find the supposed dentist-turned-bodydouble anyway.


Yeah I did'nt really buy that story either.


I think it's "dictators" that might be the key, there, not "Marxist-Leninist".

Has there every been a Marxist-Leninist regeim that was'nt a dictatorship?

[Manic Impressive]

Thatcher was, at least for most of her reign, stone cold sober, a class warrior extraordinaire. The "untrustworthy beards" thing was just part of the careful self-presentation that any ruling entity adopts- its significant because that rigorous pandering to the media spotlight was still novel at the time, not because there's anything irrational about it. (I mean, think about it- who was the single bearded world figure (http://www.nndb.com/people/118/000023049/fidel-castro-sm.jpg) at that time?) She may have slipped a bit in her later years, let it go to her head, but she was no loon.
I know she wasn't really insane but if the other side are going to go around saying that anyone who doesn't follow the mandate set by capitalist nations are insane. Then I think using their own logic against them is perfectly justifiable.

oh and you forgot Khamenei :)
http://payvand.com/1388/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/ayatollah-sayyid-ali-khamenei.jpg

[Tim Finnegan]

I know she wasn't really insane but if the other side are going to go around saying that anyone who doesn't follow the mandate set by capitalist nations are insane. Then I think using their own logic against them is perfectly justifiable.
What bourgeois politicians do is the waging of class struggle; to pathologise their actions is to deny that. That's exactly why they do it to us.


oh and you forgot Khamenei :)
http://payvand.com/1388/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/ayatollah-sayyid-ali-khamenei.jpgOh, damn, so I did. (Khomeini too, actually.) Just adds to my point, of course. ;)


In modern history yeah, but Queen Victoria was a *****.
Ok, firstly, sexist language isn't welcome.
Secondly, being a pompous figurehead isn't quite the same thing as being a mad despot, is it?


Has there every been a Marxist-Leninist regeim that was'nt a dictatorship?What does that have to do with anything?

[Roach]

Albania didn't like tourism and only accepted political supporters.


The Albanian goverment also allowed journalists not entirely supportive of the regime. A short account of a meeting between Communist Brazilians and Anti-Communists Brazilian journalists can be read here (in portuguese of course) : http://grabois.org.br/beta/revista.int.php?id_sessao=50&id_publicacao=109&id_indice=329. (http://grabois.org.br/beta/revista.int.php?id_sessao=50&id_publicacao=109&id_indice=329.).This was during Alia's rule.

I've also read about an Iranian group of jornalists who went there in the 70's that were not Hoxha supporters and despised the anti-religious politics, again in portuguese.

[Rafiq]

Is it true mao made a bunch of virgin girls have sex with him because he thought it would extend his life.

[Roach]

Is it true mao made a bunch of virgin girls have sex with him because he thought it would extend his life.

No, even though I have no source for it, I doubt that is true, pratically everything on that article (particulary when it is about Enver Hoxha, Mao and Kim il-Sung) is a North-American nationalist slander made to point out how foreigners are stupid and can't govern themselves.

Nothing there should be taken seriously.

[Apoi_Viitor]

Nothing there should be taken seriously.

I've actually heard the "Mao having sex with hundreds of virgins" story a few times before, but I don't know how valid it is. The origin of it might be Li Zhisui's book, The Private Life of Chairman Mao , and if that is the case, it's likely a complete lie.

[Dimentio]

XmgAIIgWiSs

[The Douche]

Universities were not shut down during the cultural revolution, in fact they were made more accessible for workers and peasants.

[gorillafuck]

I really don't see why we need to defend this "Leninist" regimes as if they were what we aspire when we say we want a revolution and a workers state.You're saying we shouldn't counter ridiculous slander against states that America opposes, just because they're not workers states?

That's ridiculous.

[Dimentio]

You're saying we shouldn't counter ridiculous slander against states that America opposes, just because they're not workers states?

That's ridiculous.

Is it equally bad to spread lies that Hitler likes to have sex with goats, or that the Imperial Japanese are eating the brains of Chinese children?

[Tim Finnegan]

Is it equally bad to spread lies that Hitler likes to have sex with goats, or that the Imperial Japanese are eating the brains of Chinese children?
Would anti-Nazi slander be used to justify the repression of socialist movements?

[Amphictyonis]

Sectarian gang war. I've got a box of grenades.

[Dimentio]

Would anti-Nazi slander be used to justify the repression of socialist movements?

I think all criticisms need to have some foundations in reality.

[Roach]

I think all criticisms need to have some foundations in reality.

Most slanders are politicaly irrelevant, communists base their criticisms from a class perspective, not basing on how ones countries leaders stablished some unorthodox policies or if they have sex with farm animals.

[Che a chara]

Ahh now .....

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbzi8wSuq11qaxihzo1_400.jpg

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2632n2BvD1qzendqo1_400.jpg

[Tim Finnegan]

Those are actually rather sweet pictures. :)

[Bud Struggle]

One could question the choices of which dictator is the WORST, but one has to admit that Communism--at least as it's devoloped so far on this planet earth has been the province of dictators--and some of those guys have been pretty odd.

Maybe the next lot will be better.

[Toppler]

Yeah. Because the other 90 percents of communist leaders were all insane ... Ho Chi Minh, Erich Honecker, Gustav Husak, Alexander Dubcek, Janos Kadar...

But those were not "presidents for life", instead, they were chosen by bureucracy. Not quite democratic, but to propagate the stupid myth that communism = omnipotent leaders is bullshit of the worst kind.

[Ismail]

Yeah. Because the other 90 percents of communist leaders were all insane ... Ho Chi Minh, Erich Honecker, Gustav Husak, Alexander Dubcek, Janos Kadar...

But those were not "presidents for life", instead, they were chosen by bureucracy. Not quite democratic, but to propagate the stupid myth that communism = omnipotent leaders is bullshit of the worst kind.Length in power means little anyway. Hoxha and Kim Il Sung were in power for a long time, but so were Tito (who actually was declared "President for Life" in 1974), Deng, Brezhnev and Zhivkov, not to mention Fidel Castro.

One big difference in the case of Hoxha, Castro, Mao, Tito and Kim Il Sung was that they led rebellions with themselves prominently at the head. Their very names basically became associated with the countries they led because from the very start they were the founders of the new governments. This produces a different mentality compared to "Today the Central Committee of the X Communist Party has decided to appoint Comrade Y Z to the post of General Secretary to replace Comrade (insert)."

[Le Libérer]

In modern history yeah, but Queen Victoria was a *****.





Please find another way to express your disgust with the Queen besides sexist language. You are duly warned.

[Le Libérer]

One could question the choices of which dictator is the WORST, but one has to admit that Communism--at least as it's devoloped so far on this planet earth has been the province of dictators--and some of those guys have been pretty odd.

Maybe the next lot will be better.

Anyone who is so driven to rise the ranks politically, has to be an ego maniac, self serving and down right deranged.

[Thug Lessons]

Albanian industrial development under Hoxha is nothing to crow about. They were arguably the poorest country in Europe when he took office, arguably the poorest country in Europe when he died, and they're arguably the poorest country in Europe today, which is exactly what you'd expect from a tiny, isolated state. I have heard good things about his social and cultural programs though, and he was hardly insane.

[Decommissioner]

It's not like if you forgot just one day to shave the Albanian secret police would break into your house, torture you, and send you to a gulag.

Your friends and co-workers would simply warn you that this action did not correspond to the national communist moral, if ignored they would ask the party to talk to you and if you insisted in keeping the beard, you would be ridiculed in public. Foreigners would only be stoped in the airports to shave during the 60's when Albania passed through something similar to the Cultural Revolution, after that you could visit Albania having a moustache or a beard, but you had to get used to people staring at you.

I still don't see how one could find this relieving.

I would rather keep my beard than to uphold some "national communist moral" or whatnot.

[Ismail]

Albanian industrial development under Hoxha is nothing to crow about. They were arguably the poorest country in Europe when he took office, arguably the poorest country in Europe when he died, and they're arguably the poorest country in Europe today, which is exactly what you'd expect from a tiny, isolated state. I have heard good things about his social and cultural programs though, and he was hardly insane.The social development went hand-in-hand with economic development, such as, you know, trying to create a sizable working class, engaging in urbanization, creating the necessary infrastructure to support schools and hospitals, etc.

As James S. O'Donnell notes, "Albania was a tribal society, not necessarily primitive but certainly less developed than most. It had no industrial or working class tradition and no experience using modern production techniques. Thus, the results achieved, especially during the phases of initial planning and construction of the economic base were both impressive and positive."

As also noted by O'Donnell (pp. 157-158):

The industries which did exist immediately after the war were nationalized at rapid rates. For instance, in 1944, only three percent of Albania's industry was nationalized. This amount rose to seventeen percent in 1945 and skyrocketed to eighty-nine percent by 1946.

The growth of Albania's industry was quite amazing, in both speed and in extent. When one considers the extent of damage done in Albania during World War II, it is quite impressive that Albania was able to recover from this damage and by 1946 equal her pre-war level of industrial production. However, even more impressive is the fact that by 1948, Albania doubled its pre-war industrial production. All must agree that this was a quite encouraging beginning for the new people's government.It kept on growing up until the 1980's.

Here's another good read: http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/panorama.htm

[Roach]

I still don't see how one could find this relieving.

I would rather keep my beard than to uphold some "national communist moral" or whatnot.

While ''hoxhaists'' criticize Enver Hoxha for his personality cult and his policy towards religion, the best the bourgeoisie can do are jokes about bunkers and the banning of beards.

What happened there was very very simple, first beards where associated with reactionary groups like the Orthodox Church, muslim Imans and sometimes even hippies. Second it was considered filthy.Of course Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin where allways represented with their respective beards and mustaches.

Enver Hoxha's policies towards beards did not stop many ''hoxhaists'' from growing beards, nor the ''hoxhaist'' parties today uphold any kind of policy towards beards. Why? Because its not really important.

[Ismail]

hippies.Reminds me of a Hoxha quote. "Why should we turn our country into an inn with doors flung open to pigs and sows, to people with pants on or no pants at all, to the hirsute, long-haired hippies to supplant with their wild orgies the graceful dances of our people?" Hoxha also once said, "Our young people have no need of drugs to escape from reality."