Furr believed in an economic system where money was abolished

[The Vegan Marxist]

This thread is specifically to my technocratic comrades.

Despite what one's view of Grover Furr is, one must realize that he's in favor of the economic system we wish to see advance in replacement of what is known as Socialism. Here I will directly quote Furr on what he meant by this:


"I think it’s clear that the retention of inequality and its perpetuation and growth through market mechanisms – money – was the central cause of the reversion of socialism to capitalism. After future revolutions inequality, and money, should be abolished. The principle of "to each according to his need" should be instituted immediately.

"Some will object that this will decrease incentives for people to work hard. But remember the alternative: the reversion to capitalism.

"As for what to call this first stage of communism after the revolution: I’d say we should abandon the term "socialism." Marx never used it. Its use came from the social-democratic parties out of which the Bolsheviks came. Marx referred to the "lower stage of communism." So we could call it that. Communism – a world of equality and solidarity, in which everyone is a worker and no one lives by exploitation – is the age-old goal of the working classes. It’s a good name. So, I propose changing "socialism" for "the lower stage" or "the first stage of communism.""

http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/pol/averdade0710.html

[Thug Lessons]

Why are you using the past tense? Grover Furr is still very much alive. Or did he up and die in the last couple months?

[The Vegan Marxist]

Why are you using the past tense? Grover Furr is still very much alive. Or did he up and die in the last couple months?

haha, sorry about that. Didn't realize that mistake. No, he's still very much alive.

[Bud Struggle]

He's more alive than his economic theories.

[Thug Lessons]

Furr's an historian, not an economist.

[Bud Struggle]

Furr's an historian, not an economist.

Obviously.

But otherwise--who would want such a system? It an 1984esque scenario. Everything equal to everything else. No chance to differentiate yourself from someone else by achievement.

[RGacky3]

Obviously.

But otherwise--who would want such a system? It an 1984esque scenario. Everything equal to everything else. No chance to differentiate yourself from someone else by achievement.

Material reward has been shown to not make a real difference in outcome when it comes to work beyond pure mechanical labor.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Furr's observation that the retention of money and market mechanisms serve to perpetuate economic inequalities is one that I'm sure has been made by anti-capitalists of various stripes, not just technocrats. Redstar2000 (http://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/wim/wyl/socdem/redstar/redstar230.html) was the first person who made me seriously think about alternatives to money and markets.

Like the issue of energy production, I suspect the answer is complex yet diverse, consisting of an overarching macro-economic framework (such as energy accounting) which cultivates an environment in which smaller-scale alternatives to money and markets can thrive, such as a variety of gift economies, parecon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_economics), etc. Communities that fall within the geographical limits of a post-market economy, yet are materially self-sufficient, would be free to decide their own economic structures within and any economic relationships without.

[mosfeld]

I think there's nothing spectacular about this finding of yours. Furr is a PLP member. There's no distinction between the PLP and anarchism in practice -- both repudiate the dictatorship of the proletariat and are against socialism in favor of a "jump to communism". Are you going to make a thread about random anarchists next who also believe that there should be no money after the revolution?

[Thug Lessons]

I think there's nothing spectacular about this finding of yours. Furr is a PLP member. There's no distinction between the PLP and anarchism in practice -- both repudiate the dictatorship of the proletariat and are against socialism in favor of a "jump to communism". Are you going to make a thread about random anarchists next who also believe that there should be no money after the revolution?

I know absolutely nothing about the PLP, but I know a little about Grover Furr, and I can tell you that the general gist of his writings is, "Everything you've heard about Stalin is a lie and these secret documents I have right here prove it". Also the quote posted in the OP seems to repudiate the line you describe here. He favors a "lower stage of communism", not a "jump to communism".

[Bud Struggle]

Material reward has been shown to not make a real difference in outcome when it comes to work beyond pure mechanical labor.

Only for those that aren't interested in material reward. For those that are interested in material reward--it makes a great deal of difference.

[Ismail]

I know absolutely nothing about the PLP, but I know a little about Grover Furr, and I can tell you that the general gist of his writings is, "Everything you've heard about Stalin is a lie and these secret documents I have right here prove it". Also the quote posted in the OP seems to repudiate the line you describe here. He favors a "lower stage of communism", not a "jump to communism".Furr doesn't rely on "secret documents." He relies on a lot of Russian works, but that's entirely normal.

[RGacky3]

Only for those that aren't interested in material reward. For those that are interested in material reward--it makes a great deal of difference.

This is based on scientific studies Bud, which are more valid than Bud hunches.

[Bud Struggle]

This is based on scientific studies Bud, which are more valid than Bud hunches.

Scientific studies? :lol:

The entire world economy is based on competition. It's not like there is any other system.

[RGacky3]

Scientific studies? :lol:

The entire world economy is based on competition. It's not like there is any other system.


u6XAPnuFjJc

Here you go Bud, learn something.

Material reward does not increase performance above purely mechanical work.

[Bud Struggle]

Very cutsie. But that video really shows just the best way to make people competitive and get the best results.

Besides that accounts for about 5% of the workforce. The rest do their mechanical jobs.

[RGacky3]

Very cutsie. But that video really shows just the best way to make people competitive and get the best results.


Sure, but you said

"Everything equal to everything else. No chance to differentiate yourself from someone else by achievement. "

which was wrong.


Besides that accounts for about 5% of the workforce. The rest do their mechanical jobs.

Pulled that statistic straight out of your ass.