Are people naturally born as leftists?

[The Man]

I mean, seriously, think about it. When we are little we all want people to be happy, and have well-being for all. No more hunger, war, or killing. We all want peace. No one in Kindergarten or 1st Grade, if they actually understood it, would accept Capitalism. I don't know.. Just a thought.

[Ocean Seal]

I mean, seriously, think about it. When we are little we all want people to be happy, and have well-being for all. No more hunger, war, or killing. We all want peace. No one in Kindergarten or 1st Grade, if they actually understood it, would accept Capitalism. I don't know.. Just a thought.
I'm not entirely certain. But to add to that I thought, I would agree that the reason that there aren't as many leftists is because of this "getting used to the real world" idea. A world without your parents and so on. When were young our parents, schoolteachers, and so on train us to distrust strangers, to follow the rules, and to question whether those nice to us are trying to gain an advantage. In addition, they also teach us that violence and hate are ubiquitous and natural.
Its some fuck up stuff we learn as young ones.

[The Man]

I'm not entirely certain. But to add to that I thought, I would agree that the reason that there aren't as many leftists is because of this "getting used to the real world" idea. A world without your parents and so on. When were young our parents, schoolteachers, and so on train us to distrust strangers, to follow the rules, and to question whether those nice to us are trying to gain an advantage. In addition, they also teach us that violence and hate are ubiquitous and natural.
Its some fuck up stuff we learn as young ones.

I think that is also part of our struggle for Communism. They indoctrinate us throughout our entire educational life, that War is good, and equality is bad. We must follow the rules of everything, and if not, you will be shunned.

[Le Socialiste]

That doesn't exactly explain the youngsters demanding that Obama be assassinated because of his skin color. When we're that young and not yet fully aware of the norms and pressures associated with the school system we rely on our parents and extended families to show us how to act and behave. This also applies to what we initially think and believe. For children at the pre-school-1st grade level, what our parents tell us is simply what "is". Therefore, if one's parents were openly racist and demanding the murder of the president based on his skin color/race, that child will surely absorb that information and repeat it (while I believe Obama to be a corporate, imperialist lackey, I don't think assassinating him is the answer).

My point is, our initial beliefs and outlooks - the ways in which we behave and interact with others - is defined first and foremost by our family. Once we enter the school system, we are introduced to a wider range of social norms and expected roles - which serves as a condensed version of society as a whole. So no, I wouldn't say we are born "leftist". That term in and of itself encompasses a wide range of sociopolitical/economic beliefs and practices which cannot wholly explain child behavior. We are socialized a certain way, depending on the cultural and historical circumstances we grow up in. There is no inherent understanding of leftist ideology, no matter how simplified it may be. Much of our own beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors are the results of our environment. We are shaped according to what we are taught; taught to act, taught to see, taught to behave/believe, etc. etc. Eventually, there stands the possibility that we break with these teachings. This is normal, I think.

For instance, my immediate family (as well as my family on my mother's side) are ardent Democrats. I was raised with the idea that it was the Democrats who were the sole defenders of American liberties and freedoms (this view was especially reinforced during the Bush years, which coincided with some important, formative years of my adolescence). As such, I was very devoted to the platform and general line of the Democratic Party. As soon as I turned eighteen, I registered as a Democrat - and proceeded to vote for Obama, which I regret each and every day. My understanding of the world, and of America, was shaped by my "identity" as a Democrat.

Needless to say, 2-3 years later, I have left the "Democratic" Party (for obvious reasons, I think). :glare:

In short (too late), children do not retain some semblance of leftist thought; they are, more or less, sponges reacting to their environment.

[Agent Ducky]

Interesting idea. I've toyed with the concept that at age 4 we're all leftists, because, who hasn't, at age 4 gone, "Mommy, why can't we all be equal? It's not fair."

[Agent Ducky]

And I mean really before any of the social conditioning can really get through to them. Because obviously once you get to a certain age the kids are just imprints of whatever their parents tell them...

[Ocean Seal]

Interesting idea. I've toyed with the concept that at age 4 we're all leftists, because, who hasn't, at age 4 gone, "Mommy, why can't we all be equal? It's not fair."
And then mommy replies:
Life isn't fair
^^^^^^^
The epitome of why we tolerate capitalism

[Agent Ducky]

And then mommy replies:
Life isn't fair
^^^^^^^
The epitome of why we tolerate capitalism

Exactly. And then we grow up and live our lives dealing with capitalism, accepting all the injustices just because of this one conceit.

[Chairman Mike]

I think that is also part of our struggle for Communism. They indoctrinate us throughout our entire educational life, that War is good, and equality is bad. We must follow the rules of everything, and if not, you will be shunned.

Also that Communism is evil because all Communist leaders are power hungry and like to kill people. Therefore, Communism is a no no.

[Agent Ducky]

Communism. When people see the word they automatically go into defense mode. Which is why I've been thinking.. what if we renamed communism? It's a stupid idea that capitalists have used (it's not capitalism, it's free market system it's good because it has free in it) But.. I've seen it working. I explained Marxism/Communism to someone but called it "social freedom" and they agreed with me right up until I told them "yeah, you just supported communism." O_o.

[Rafiq]

No. No one is necessarily born with any political bias or tendency.

However, it's true that Socialism is a much better system, and we could see why people at young ages tend to act leftist, whatever that is supposed to mean, because it's not that we are Naturally socialists, it is that socialism, works better for us materially.

[Robespierre Richard]

No, people aren't born with political positions. Also the other day at work I was in the break room and Dr. Phil was on, and he was talking to some girl who wanted a baby because she's lonely and wants emotional support. He basically said that babies are very selfish and when they cry it's because they want attention and as long as they cry no one but them deserves attention. Also, according to Newsweek, babies are racist. (http://www.newsweek.com/2009/09/04/see-baby-discriminate.html)

But yeah, I mean people are just adapt into social situations, there is really no such thing as being "naturally social" or "naturally cooperative" or "naturally competitive." There are some insticts we have that we adapted to back when people were mostly tribal "caveman" types, like mothers being very protective in the late term of pregnancy, but other than that, we do not have any "natural" views.

[Struggle]

This view goes directly against the Marxist belief that peoples views and actions are a product of society. People views and actions are determined by the ways and means in which they have been socialised. To answer your question, no.

[Stand Your Ground]

Communism. When people see the word they automatically go into defense mode. Which is why I've been thinking.. what if we renamed communism? It's a stupid idea that capitalists have used (it's not capitalism, it's free market system it's good because it has free in it) But.. I've seen it working. I explained Marxism/Communism to someone but called it "social freedom" and they agreed with me right up until I told them "yeah, you just supported communism." O_o.
That's not a bad idea. I'd hate to ditch the hammer & sickle though. =(

[Agent Ducky]

I would hate to ditch it too. Dang. We have a problem =[

[The Man]

That's not a bad idea. I'd hate to ditch the hammer & sickle though. =(

Well it seems the only people what have misconceptions about Communism are the ones that lived during the Cold War. Younger people are getting a better example.

[Agent Ducky]

Indeed, but they still get misconceptions handed down from their parents...

[NGNM85]

Are people naturally born as Dentists?

[ChrisK]

Why is this in philosophy?

[RadioRaheem84]

Does the OP mean that people can obviously see the insanity of society under a capitalist social order, but then are indoctrinated to think otherwise as they grow up? I tend to think so.

[Zav]

And then mommy replies:
Life isn't fair
^^^^^^^
The epitome of why we tolerate capitalism
And she said that because her parents told it to her, because theirs did, and so on, and because she grew up believing it. Honestly, I've never had such a person give me a good answer when I ask them "Why?"

I think people are naturally lefties. Then some grumpy old man comes along and says that the poor deserve to be poor because they didn't work hard enough, or some other bs. People seem to have the innate desire to be empathetic and to help each other.

[RadioRaheem84]

EXAMPLE:

I remember working for a bookstore owned by a major conglomerate, yet it was a college bookstore and thus was very small. The manager would always be gone and we workers would man the store for most of the time. We ran the registers, stocked the books and ordered inventory.

One day one of the girls working there just came out and said, "you know, why do we need the manager or the owners, we could run this place ourselves". Everyone agreed and others said (after looking at the books) that the company could pay us all twice our wages and still make a killing. All agreed that the only time we see the boss (or his representative) was when it came time to pick up the money.

People can easily see when they're being ripped off and can see naked exploitation.

But, there is always the one guy who like to chime in that while it may appear to be going this way, the "reality" is that *insert whatever mindless right-libertarian* drivel. The one guy has freshly read up on his Misean or Friedman-ite garbage and thus tries to explain to all of us "simple" minded workers that we are consenting to wage labour and thus we are free to leave anytime, etc.

People have to be told to consent to the social order despite what their natural outlook is telling them.

We are dealing with social reality here.

[NecroCommie]

Radioheem is right, but then again that is why we leftists exist. To counter all that meaningless drivel.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

I think we all know that humans behavour are very shapeable, but if you look at children they tend to have a quite clear understanding when something is fair or unfaire which then leeds us to the question if this is something we might be born with. A couple of years ago there was a researche made in Zürich where they showed that humans, no matter culture, tended to do favours and good acts too eachother, without gaining anything by themselves. that where compare towards our closest relative the chimpansees who didnt do this. This information where quickly taked by leftist in Sweden who said that apes tend to have more incommon with Adam Smiths economical theories. that even became a banner in the 1 May demonstration in Stockholm, which said: "Liberales are apes".

Also many scientists in the human evolution tend to say that the latest researches shows how we humans developed in the sence of solidarity and team work rather then the individualistic and socialdarwinistic way that the right often claim is the real human nature. One name woth menthioning in this case is Steven Pinker who is a evolutionary psycholigist and a marxist, according to him you are right OP, we are born leftists its just that society doesnt allways wants us to be that.

[Luís Henrique]

I think people are naturally lefties. Then some grumpy old man comes along and says that the poor deserve to be poor because they didn't work hard enough, or some other bs. People seem to have the innate desire to be empathetic and to help each other.

And that grumpy old man isn't a person?

There is no such thing as a "human nature" that you can define. People are able to sustain any political position, from fascism to communism; their personal experiences and what they are handed down by their elders is what drives them in one direction or another. In other words, it is historical, not "natural".

But it is interesting to see supposed Marxists holding such an anti-Marxist idea. Perhaps the modern left owes more to Rousseau than it is able to confess?

Luís Henrique

[RadioRaheem84]

I think the matter has more to do with people seeing exploitation in the workplace and noticing the deficits of an unequal society.

They tend to think of the society in one way but along comes the ruling class to steer them in another direction.

[Jalapeno Enema]

Are people naturally born as leftists?
No.

Haven't any of you ever interacted with a child?

Children are born selfish, violent, asocial animals. A small child wants to play alone, or with a parent (on occasion.) Infants push, and often literally attack other infants when encountered.

Basic social concepts, such as sharing/turn taking, tit for tat, empathy, etc. are taught to all children. Eventually the child learns to play with another child (a sibling, for example.)

It takes longer for the child to develop enough social skills to tolerate a larger group (3-4), and most children don't interact with a truly large group until kindergarden.

Even in these later stages, the child may know empathy, and may express a desire for global peace, feeding the world, etc, but the child's reasoning ability is limited; if the child understood that they would have to give something up for another to gain something, they'd be less apt to feel that way. A child thinks that there's no shortage of anything, and that more can always be bought or made.

Ask a small child with two video game consoles if they think every child should have one, and they'll say "yes". Then ask them to give one up so another child can have one.

Don't get me wrong, I adore children. They're not miniature adults, however. And just because something is an inherent trait among children does not make it "natural".

[Technocrat]

I don't know if leftists are born, but there is good evidence that conservatives and liberals have brains that are wired differently:

http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-sci-politics10sep10,0,2687256.story

[Optiow]

I believe that some of us are naturally born as leftists, while others see capitalism and realize that there needs to be a better system.