1 in 10 Americans think communism is "morally superior"?

[A Revolutionary Tool]

According to a Rasmussen poll 11% of respondents said communism is "morally superior to the U.S. system of politics and economics. 13% were not sure.

13% were either unsure or certain that a communist economy is better than what we have in the U.S.

20% of the people polled said that communism is better for the middle class worker or were undecided.


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/march_2011/11_say_communism_better_than_u_s_system_of_politic s_and_economics

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

It will take time, but it will happen eventually.

It will come with immigration and deindustrialization, and the American working class no longer taking their social advantage for granted anymore. They will see that the real enemy isn't the worker in China or the Mexican immigrant, but the boss who plays both of them off against the American worker.

[Raubleaux]

It will take time, but it will happen eventually.

It will come with immigration and deindustrialization, and the American working class no longer taking their social advantage for granted anymore. They will see that the real enemy isn't the worker in China or the Mexican immigrant, but the boss who plays both of them off against the American worker.

Agreed.

[Threetune]

It will take time, but it will happen eventually.

It will come with immigration and deindustrialization, and the American working class no longer taking their social advantage for granted anymore. They will see that the real enemy isn't the worker in China or the Mexican immigrant, but the boss who plays both of them off against the American worker.
Bollocks, economism isn’t revolution. That will only come with the conscious intervention by Leninist revolutionaries who will consistently attack ‘left’ opportunists who exploit spontaneous economism for their own opportunist advantage. Keep watching this space for a complete exposure of the fake lefts on this issue.

[Crux]

Bollocks, economism isn’t revolution. That will only come with the conscious intervention on Leninist revolutionaries who will consistently attack ‘left’ opportunists who exploit spontaneous economism for their own opportunist advantage. Keep watching this space for a complete exposure of the fake lefts on this issue.
You protest too much.

[liberzontal]

According to polls by Rasmussen, Pew and Gallup, Americans under 30 are equally divided between preferring "socialism" and "capitalism." Your article mentions that Americans under 30 are "much less critical of communism as an ideology than their elders are." I wonder what the specifics are.
Does anyone know if there have been polls done about anarchism in the U.S.?

[Threetune]

You protest too much.

Far too much for a pretend revolutionary like you, that’s a fact.

[Crux]

Far too much for a pretend revolutionary like you, that’s a fact.
It sure is.

[gestalt]

That's 11% more than I assumed Rasmussen would report, still not worth the bandwidth I wasted to click that link.


Bollocks, economism isn’t revolution. That will only come with the conscious intervention on Leninist revolutionaries who will consistently attack ‘left’ opportunists who exploit spontaneous economism for their own opportunist advantage. Keep watching this space for a complete exposure of the fake lefts on this issue.

We wait with bated breath.

[Threetune]

It sure is.

You do understand that trades union economism etc is not communist revolution don’t you?

edit:
Sorry I can’t make you feel good, but class war is not a beauty pageant. And reformist economism is not revolutionary. Now read some Lenin and get to grips with this stuff.

[Le Socialiste]

Those numbers are sure to grow as we approach an even more unstable capitalist economy - the ruling class is overstepping its bounds, and eventually they'll reach too far. Until then, what a terrible article! Did anybody read that? I don't know, I tend to get irritated when people/articles refer to socialism/communism as a dead (or failed) ideology. :glare:

[hatzel]

You do understand that trades union economism etc is not communist revolution don’t you?

I'm going to come right out and request that you just stop 'contributing' to this thread, because you don't seem to be saying anything...and if you must say stuff, is it perhaps possible that you might make your font match everybody else's, that is to say, not bold? I don't mean to be a pain, but my eyes are instantly drawn to bold text, as if it were something important, and then I'm let down...:rolleyes:

In other news, could you tell us why it's apparently so horrible that 11% of Americans prefer communism, or where anybody here was advocating economism (or even really mentioning the economy), or why anything you're saying is worth reading? :confused:

[Threetune]

I'm going to come right out and request that you just stop 'contributing' to this thread, because you don't seem to be saying anything...and if you must say stuff, is it perhaps possible that you might make your font match everybody else's, that is to say, not bold? I don't mean to be a pain, but my eyes are instantly drawn to bold text, as if it were something important, and then I'm let down...:rolleyes:

In other news, could you tell us why it's apparently so horrible that 11% of Americans prefer communism, or where anybody here was advocating economism (or even really mentioning the economy), or why anything you're saying is worth reading? :confused:

Sorry about the font thing. Is this better ?

[Delenda Carthago]

10%? Fuckin KKE dont have 10% on national elections!Who are these guys that made the poll??

[Crux]

You do understand that trades union economism etc is not communist revolution don’t you?

edit:
Sorry I can’t make you feel good, but class war is not a beauty pageant. And reformist economism is not revolutionary. Now read some Lenin and get to grips with this stuff.
You've read Lenin? I am impressed. Your contribution is, as alway, welcome.

[Crux]

I'm going to come right out and request that you just stop 'contributing' to this thread, because you don't seem to be saying anything...and if you must say stuff, is it perhaps possible that you might make your font match everybody else's, that is to say, not bold? I don't mean to be a pain, but my eyes are instantly drawn to bold text, as if it were something important, and then I'm let down...:rolleyes:

In other news, could you tell us why it's apparently so horrible that 11% of Americans prefer communism, or where anybody here was advocating economism (or even really mentioning the economy), or why anything you're saying is worth reading? :confused:
What he is saying is that we cannot wait. One day the working class will embrace the genious that is Threetune-thought.

[Threetune]

You've read Lenin? I am impressed. Your contribution is, as alway, welcome.

have a good sleep

[gestalt]

Who needs to think when the Glorious Lenin has done it for you?

[hatzel]

Who needs to think when the Glorious Lenin has done it for you?

The problem is that even then you actually have to know what he thought...that seems to be the issue here...:)

[Threetune]

Who needs to think when the Glorious Lenin has done it for you?

Ok, do it your way.

[gestalt]

What can I say?

Some of us want a revolution originating from, undertaken by and for the benefit of the working masses; not some opportunistic regime change by bureaucratic usurpers.

[hatzel]

Ok, do it your way.

I think I speak on behalf of everyone here on RevLeft when I thank you for allowing us to do what we want. You're very generous.

To the OP: how many of these people do we think are actually commies or whatever, how many just think the current system is a load of booty chowder, and what is 'morally superior' supposed to mean anyway? That doesn't suggest they think it's more applicable, does it? They could think it's 'morally superior' but in practice unworkable, I assume?

[Threetune]

What he is saying is that we cannot wait. One day the working class will embrace the genious that is Threetune-thought.

Big kiss and good night to you Maj, even though you are a confused trot plonker.;)

[Jose Gracchus]

Bollocks, economism isn’t revolution. That will only come with the conscious intervention by Leninist revolutionaries who will consistently attack ‘left’ opportunists who exploit spontaneous economism for their own opportunist advantage. Keep watching this space for a complete exposure of the fake lefts on this issue.

Come save me great leader! You and the other 65 militants in your DEMOCRATIC CENTRALIST party with the ever-always-true lines!

[smk]

In more educated circles (people who actually have some small understanding of what communism entails besides communism=bad), I would suspect that the percentage of people who believe communism to be 'morally superior' would be much higher than 11%. If you have any idea what communism is, I have no idea how you could believe it isn't morally superior. However, what is the most often heard criticism of communism?

"It looks good on paper, but wont work in real life because of economics/human nature/whatever."

This is why there isn't much support for the far left in America. If there were only a single successful country which provided a good model as far as communism (provided the absence of rightist propaganda), I think that there would a large amount of people who would see that not only is communism 'morally superior', but also can work. This should be a goal. If one country can provide a good model, other countries will slowly replicate it.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

10%? Fuckin KKE dont have 10% on national elections!Who are these guys that made the poll??
They're probably the most biased right-wingers when it comes to polling(From what I remember hearing, it may have been another organization, but I'm pretty sure it's this one) which is why it's pretty surprising coming from them. But it's not for any party just for the idea of communism itself.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

I think I speak on behalf of everyone here on RevLeft when I thank you for allowing us to do what we want. You're very generous.

To the OP: how many of these people do we think are actually commies or whatever, how many just think the current system is a load of booty chowder, and what is 'morally superior' supposed to mean anyway? That doesn't suggest they think it's more applicable, does it? They could think it's 'morally superior' but in practice unworkable, I assume?
Yeah that's why the poll says 11% think it's "morally superior"(Agreed, what does that mean) and 13% aren't sure but only 13% think it's a better economic system or aren't sure. When you look at the article I think it's like 4% that think it's a better economic system.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Those numbers are sure to grow as we approach an even more unstable capitalist economy - the ruling class is overstepping its bounds, and eventually they'll reach too far. Until then, what a terrible article! Did anybody read that? I don't know, I tend to get irritated when people/articles refer to socialism/communism as a dead (or failed) ideology. :glare:
Agreed a terrible article to read, but what can we expect? Bourgeois source is bourgeois source.

[pranabjyoti]

Well, in my opinion, the comparative worse condition (in comparison to European workers) of US workers is the inflow of immigrants. The problem with immigrants, specially from immigrants of Asia is the fact that they often come with reactionary, backward mentality and often take side with the bosses than their co-workers. I myself have often heard that NRI(Non Resident Indian) workers to say that Americans/Europeans are basically lazy and they don't want to work hard but demand too much. "We" can work harder than them. Rarely they join any labor union or take part in union activity. I can't say much about workers from other Asian countries, but what I am saying is true about Indian workers. Remember, both Bush and Botha liked Indian and Mr. Bush often place Indians as example of "ideal minority".

[Geiseric]

There are alot of south eastern asian immigrants who work at a friends factory, and they're perferred to hire due to what Pranjiboti said above.

[Agent Ducky]

I feel like we need a different name. Let me explain:
Texas is rewriting history books. In addition to writing out the Black Panthers and portraying McCarthy as a pretty cool guy, they changed capitalism to "free market system" Because capitalism sounds bad. And free market system has free in it.
Maybe that is our problem. Communism sounds bad. Why not rename it "social freedom" or something along those lines. =P. I've actually tried this, explaining "social freedom" to someone. They were agreeing with me fully up until I said "you just agreed with communism." At which point their head exploded.

I thought it was a ridiculous idea, changing names, but O_O

[ckaihatsu]

They were agreeing with me fully up until I said "you just agreed with communism." At which point their head exploded.


Um, could you flowchart this process for us -- ?


x D





Maybe that is our problem. Communism sounds bad. Why not rename it "social freedom" or something along those lines. =P.


Is it morally superior to outsource communism to a p.r. firm -- ?


= )

[Robespierre Richard]

According to polls by Rasmussen, Pew and Gallup, Americans under 30 are equally divided between preferring "socialism" and "capitalism." Your article mentions that Americans under 30 are "much less critical of communism as an ideology than their elders are." I wonder what the specifics are.
Does anyone know if there have been polls done about anarchism in the U.S.?

90% of teens prefer anarchism to parental authority.

[Robocommie]

Big kiss and good night to you Maj, even though you are a confused trot plonker.;)

Good fuck dude. You don't even realize that you are the asshole who went to the dentist's convention and tried to convince everyone of the benefits of flossing. Seriously. You're being THAT guy. It's hilarious that you think you're being clever.

Seriously, what is up with these new guys who register for the forum and then a couple of days to weeks later start preaching as if they're the first guy to read Marx?

[Agent Ducky]

Lol. Communism PR firm. I can imagine how that would go. That would be enough to be its own TV show or something. It would be glorious.

[ckaihatsu]

Yes, we will exchange rosy-cheeked muscular heroic laborers and flowing golden fields of wheat for hip Western marketing...(!)


x D





Lol. Communism PR firm. I can imagine how that would go. That would be enough to be its own TV show or something. It would be glorious.


Its public image would be "glorious" but inside employees would be habitually dressed in dark tones and black, furtively reading depressing Russian literature while obsessively chain-smoking unfiltered cigarettes.

For income it would grudgingly turn itself into a reality TV show in which proles are forced to compete at churning out the best propaganda for the state while enduring excruciating pain in drab surroundings -- those who fail are executed on the spot.





They were agreeing with me fully up until I said "you just agreed with communism." At which point their head exploded.





Um, could you flowchart this process for us -- ?


Btw, I wasn't *trying* to just be a smart-ass here, but if that happened so much the better (heh) -- actually I'm the kind of guy who *does* look for a process for this sort of thing....

One could start by asking the other if they think the world is okay as it is, or if perhaps it's not quite what it *could* be. If it's not as problem-free as we would like, then why not? Is it based more or less on a meritocratic approach, in which those who have the greatest access to humanity's benefits are also the *most deserving* -- ? If it's *not* meritocratic then what *is* the overall system that confers rewards? By what rules or rationale does it reward? How did those who have more access -- as through wealth ownership -- come to receive that kind of access?

Could someone (you) think of a somewhat *better* method for distributing the compensation that is currently available due to society's surplus production (overproduction) -- ? By what kind of actions, or activity, could this societal surplus be distributed, or on what kind of basis?

(Etc.)

[L.A.P.]

Bollocks, economism isn’t revolution. That will only come with the conscious intervention by Leninist revolutionaries who will consistently attack ‘left’ opportunists who exploit spontaneous economism for their own opportunist advantage. Keep watching this space for a complete exposure of the fake lefts on this issue.

Dude, shut the fuck up and stop being a tool.

[Iraultzaile Ezkerreko]

They're probably the most biased right-wingers when it comes to polling(From what I remember hearing, it may have been another organization, but I'm pretty sure it's this one) which is why it's pretty surprising coming from them. But it's not for any party just for the idea of communism itself.
I think you're thinking of Research 2000. Rasmussen is almost as bad though.

[Agent Ducky]

Lol, that would be the worst capitalism-ification of communism since the proliferation of Che T-shirts. O_O

And I'm still confused about the whole flowchartification thing? O_O

[GPDP]

Lol, that would be the worst capitalism-ification of communism since the proliferation of Che T-shirts. O_O

And I'm still confused about the whole flowchartification thing? O_O

I think he's asking what questions you asked your friend to get him to agree with communism without his knowing.

[Robocommie]

And I'm still confused about the whole flowchartification thing? O_O

Ckaihatsu is obsessed with charts. :D

[Agent Ducky]

Oh. Wow. Well it's not very clear.. but I outlined a lot of capitalism's problems and was like "example proletarian job is just as valuable to society as example bourgeois job, why aren't they equal? example proletarian job probably works longer hours!" or something along those lines... I barely remember :P

[ckaihatsu]

(solemnly) Flowchartification is what I do.


= )


Be back in a bit....

[pranabjyoti]

I feel like we need a different name. Let me explain:
Texas is rewriting history books. In addition to writing out the Black Panthers and portraying McCarthy as a pretty cool guy, they changed capitalism to "free market system" Because capitalism sounds bad. And free market system has free in it.
Maybe that is our problem. Communism sounds bad. Why not rename it "social freedom" or something along those lines. =P. I've actually tried this, explaining "social freedom" to someone. They were agreeing with me fully up until I said "you just agreed with communism." At which point their head exploded.

I thought it was a ridiculous idea, changing names, but O_O
I don't agree. Communism is attracting to most people of the world. At least I don't care about what some "half-literate" "western" workers may think about it. To most poor and oppressed people around the world, this word is a symbol of end of their misery, humiliation.

[NormalG]

It is true the majority of people on earth are poor, and the socialist idea of the next man having just as much opportunity would be appealing. But Here in America, or in Europe, or areas where so-called communism has existed and failed, lies a deeply rooted brainwashed fear of even the thought. the word 'communism' has been demonized way past reconciliation, so a name change would be necessary for socialism to exist here.

[pranabjyoti]

It is true the majority of people on earth are poor, and the socialist idea of the next man having just as much opportunity would be appealing. But Here in America, or in Europe, or areas where so-called communism has existed and failed, lies a deeply rooted brainwashed fear of even the thought. the word 'communism' has been demonized way past reconciliation, so a name change would be necessary for socialism to exist here.
Ya, probably for that reason 45% Romanians are now "apologizing" to Ceausescu and huge % of people living in the Eastern part of Germany want fGDR back.

[La Comédie Noire]

Good fuck dude. You don't even realize that you are the asshole who went to the dentist's convention and tried to convince everyone of the benefits of flossing. Seriously. You're being THAT guy. It's hilarious that you think you're being clever.

Seriously, what is up with these new guys who register for the forum and then a couple of days to weeks later start preaching as if they're the first guy to read Marx?It's part of the learning process. You repeat the "catechism" until you digest new knowledge sufficiently enough to think critically about it. It's kind of like how kids play at being cops or construction workers, just trying out roles. In fact if you notice new members are highly volatile in their beliefs and will often switch rapidly, this week it's Maoism, next week it's anarchism. If they stay long enough you'll notice they begin to settle down into deeper and more consistent views. The problem is the less you know about a subject, the more inclined you are to be arrogant.

Luckily for some people there isn't written and archived evidence of their naive jackassery.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Well, in my opinion, the comparative worse condition (in comparison to European workers) of US workers is the inflow of immigrants. The problem with immigrants, specially from immigrants of Asia is the fact that they often come with reactionary, backward mentality and often take side with the bosses than their co-workers. I myself have often heard that NRI(Non Resident Indian) workers to say that Americans/Europeans are basically lazy and they don't want to work hard but demand too much. "We" can work harder than them. Rarely they join any labor union or take part in union activity. I can't say much about workers from other Asian countries, but what I am saying is true about Indian workers. Remember, both Bush and Botha liked Indian and Mr. Bush often place Indians as example of "ideal minority".

A good work ethic is not necessarily a bad thing.

However, I do agree with you. In the UK, it's quite noticeable that second and third generation immigrants from far East Asia and South East Asia generally look to work within the Capitalist system and 'get on', so to speak. Obviously, this comes across as a generalisation, but I mean it to be more of a social-cultural observation/commentary.

These people, thus, tend to align with the petty bourgeoisie, as their hard work ethic and willingness to play within the Capitalist system tends to lead to self-enrichment, financially speaking. Thus, they do not identify with the everyday financial problems of the working class.

I don't really see it as a problem/good thing/bad thing, it's just really something interesting that one can observe in a Capitalist society like the UK. The reality is that, for people who are not born into the cycle of poverty in the UK, who are also vaguely intelligent and have no anti-Capitalist ideology 'baggage', there are always plenty of opportunities to work their way up the greasy bourgeois spoon.

The problem, which we have all identified, with the Capitalist system is that for those born into the vicious cycle of poverty - parents in low paid, manual/semi-manual, menial jobs, with little formal education and no qualifications, the likelihood is that they won't be able to pass on any educational knowledge to their children, who will leave school with no qualifications, thus consigning them to life on the scrap heap.

Alas, that is Capitalism.

[Obs]

When I clicked this thread, the thought this will immediately become a sectarian fuckfest did not enter my mind.

I am now wiser.