Starting Points.

[eric922]

Hello everyone. First a little background on me since it might help you answer my question. I'm fairly young only 21, but always had an interest in politics. For a few years I was firm FDR style New Deal Democrat, but over time I grew to realize that despite his intentions the capitalists class managed to destroy any regulations FDR put in place and have come to the conclusion that regulating capitalism isn't the answer. It must be replaced.
So my question is can anyone recommended some good books that gave a basic overview of Marxist and socialist thought? I am reading a biography on Trotsky right now, but I'd like to learn more about the theory behind Socialism and honestly I don't trust myself to pick something up from the library because it is so hard to find unbiased sources on this subject. Thanks.

[mikelepore]

You won't easily find unbiased sources by asking here either. Most people here who who recommend reading material will be pushing their own sects on you, and claiming that their narrow concepts are fundamental. You would have better results reading marxists.org, and coming back here to ask questions.

[Robespierre Richard]

Yeah pretty much.

http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/index.htm
This shortlist is pretty good though.

[graymouser]

Yeah pretty much.

http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/index.htm
This shortlist is pretty good though.
There are a couple of things in there, particularly the German Ideology, that I think are a bit much.

Personally, I think the four most fundamental works are:

The Communist Manifesto (http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/index.htm) by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.
Socialism: Utopian and Scientific (http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm) by Friedrich Engels
The State and Revolution (http://marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/index.htm) by V.I. Lenin
The Transitional Program (http://marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/tp/index.htm) by Leon Trotsky

Once you have those down, I think branching out into some Luxemburg (Reform or Revolution (http://marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/index.htm)) and further reading from the Marx/Engels works above and the Lenin Selected Works (http://marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/index.htm) is a good way to get a grasp of Marxist ideas.

[Robespierre Richard]

I think for branching out into movements that are relevant today it's good to read for Trotskyism, The Revolution Betrayed (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/index.htm), Chapter 5, or for Marxism-Leninism, The Foundations of Leninism (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/foundations-leninism/index.htm), which is a short pamphlet that basically summarizes those views.

[hatzel]

I'm going to suggest that the best thing to do might be to engage with the OP, to see if there's any slight bit of information we might be able to find to make sure that our suggestions are somewhat more directed to something he might be interested in rather than just cluster-bombing him with our own personal preferences :) I mean, I feel the OP hasn't even considered non-Marxist forms of socialism, which may also be of interest. So it would be good if we had more of an idea of what kind of stuff he envisages, so that we can try to find an ideology which ties in, at least in some respects, with the ideas he already has, and any potential solution he might have already considered...if you could provide any more info about your vision, what you like and dislike from whatever you already know about various socialist currents, whatever, it might be really useful for us to better guide you :)

Admittedly, that's difficult with a newbie. We can hardly expect him to come out singing the praises of some syndicalist federation or a vanguard party or anything else without knowing about them. Therefore, it might be good if the OP were to just cruise around the forums for a while, seeing what people have to say about this or that idea, perhaps looking up some unfamiliar terms on Wikipedia, to get an overview of the absolute basics, the kind of stuff that distinguishes between this or that ideology. You never know, maybe he'll find himself agreeing with absolutely everything written by the Trotskyists here, in which case we might have a Trot on our hands, for example...

[Rooster]

Well, to me, communism starts with Marx's analysis of the capitalist system, it's mode of production (fancy talk for how things are made in relation to people and work). There are other things before Marx that can be looked into but I don't think they're as relevant and Marx himself just built upon and turned around arguments that were already going on or discussed before him (from the ancient Greeks up to classical economists). This is mostly in his big work called Capital. Capital is a hard read, at least the first few chapters. And there are plenty of places where you can go look for a quick or detailed explanation. One I always recommend is http://kapitalism101.wordpress.com/ . There are also many guides to Capital and one of the most popular is David Harvey's http://davidharvey.org/ both those sites contain videos but Harvey also has a book out which is basically just his lectures on that site.

The political side of Marx is laid in the Communist Manifesto which has been linked by previous posters. He talks about how under capitalism, two social groups of people have come about, one that owns business and one that works (bourgeoisie and proletariat). He also says how this is came about through a historical process and that capitalism itself is a historical period, distinct in itself. The actual processes at which these come about are explained a bit in Capital and the Grundrisse (which were the rough notes for Capital).

Much of communism and the left have been seen through the prism of Marx since then. Marx didn't really explain how a communist society would look like so many people have been discussing it and trying to put it into practice since then, so there's a wealth of books on that. Most people read Lenins The State and Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/) which discusses the ideas of the state in the communist manifesto. It quotes large chunks of it too.

Most people then split on what came after that. Some fall into the Stalin camp, others into the Trotksy camp. Trotsky did write a number of good books and I think most of us can agree on at least some of the content: The History of the Russian Revolution and the Revolution Betrayed are two books I would recommend though. http://marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/index.htm Alas, some will dismiss Revolution Betrayed but I think it allows us to be critical of ourselves.

You can also try these short videos for a very quick tour de force:

qOP2V_np2c0

hpAMbpQ8J7g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g)

[Lunatic Concept]

The ragged trousered philanthropists! best introduction to socialism anywhere :)

[eric922]

People have asked for a bit more information on my ideas so I'll try and give them, though keep in mind I'm still not sure what I believe completely. I became interested in Socialism because I have seen the failure of capitalism in the U.S. to provide a decent life for the majority of people. I belive in equal rights and freedoms for everyone and that is my problem with capitalism. It does not provide equal rights, it merely pretends to while in reality it is in it's own way as oppressive as any dictatorship.
I have been interested in the democratic socialism model used in Sweden and other European countries, but my problem there is that they still rely very heavily on capitalism and I fear that if given the chance those systems will be dismantled. On that note I have heard that those countries aren't democratic socialist, but something else and that democratic socialism advocates for the same final goals as Marxism, but prefers reform over revolution is that correct?

[Lunatic Concept]

Ive posted it before but this is still personally my favorite description of socialism, extremely short but explains well.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/pankhurst-sylvia/1923/socialism.htm

[The Idler]

Beginners (Modern and under 200 pages)
Oxford University Press
Anarchism: A Very Short Introduction by Colin Ward
Communism: A Very Short Introduction by Leslie Holmes
Socialism: A Very Short Introduction by Michael Newman
Marx: A Very Short Introduction by Peter Singer
Engels: A Very Short Introduction by Terrell Harver

Icon Books/Pantheon/Totem
Introducing Marx by Rius
Introducing Lenin by Richard Appignanesi and Oscar Zarate
Introducing Trotsky by Tariq Ali and Phil Evans
Marx's Kapital for Beginners (http://www.revleft.com/vb/marx-39-s-t41211/index.html) by David N. Smith and Phil Evans

Hodder and Stoughton
Marx: A Beginners Guide by Gill Hands

Oneworld
Marx: A Beginners Guide by Andrew Collier

Bookmarks (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.bookmarksbookshop.co.uk) (SWP)
A Rebel's Guide to Marx by Mike Gonzalez
A Rebel's Guide to Lenin by Ian Birchall
A Rebel's Guide to Trotsky by Esme Choonara

Continuum
Marx a Guide for the Perplexed by John Seed

Grantha
How to read Marx by Peter Osborne

Pluto Press
Introduction to Marxism by Ernest Mandel

[Rooster]

People have asked for a bit more information on my ideas so I'll try and give them, though keep in mind I'm still not sure what I believe completely. I became interested in Socialism because I have seen the failure of capitalism in the U.S. to provide a decent life for the majority of people. I belive in equal rights and freedoms for everyone and that is my problem with capitalism. It does not provide equal rights, it merely pretends to while in reality it is in it's own way as oppressive as any dictatorship.
I have been interested in the democratic socialism model used in Sweden and other European countries, but my problem there is that they still rely very heavily on capitalism and I fear that if given the chance those systems will be dismantled. On that note I have heard that those countries aren't democratic socialist, but something else and that democratic socialism advocates for the same final goals as Marxism, but prefers reform over revolution is that correct?

That's more or less the gist of it. The grand idea of socialism through reforms has been going on forever and the meagre gains it has made have all been attacked and reduced since the 70s and 80s. Coincidentally, round about the same time that the gold standard was dropped and finance capital brought in with full force. But it was in a steep decline for a long time, based as it was and is, on the capitalist mode of production and subjected to crisis and market conditions. The idea that you can vote your way in and change things should be dropped because a bourgeois liberal democracy (basically every western democracy), will not allow it. It is beyond it's scope. To fight back, you need to participate on the shop floor and in active civil disobedience. I don't know if you work or not, or if you're just a student, but it's easier to see examples of what Marx was talking about actually doing work. You can see how democracy ends once you get into the work place, how powerless you are and how alienated you are at the hands of the bourgeois.



Beginners (Modern and under 200 pages)
Oxford University Press
Anarchism: A Very Short Introduction by Colin Ward
Communism: A Very Short Introduction by Leslie Holmes
Socialism: A Very Short Introduction by Michael Newman
Marx: A Very Short Introduction by Peter Singer
Engels: A Very Short Introduction by Terrell Harver

Icon Books/Pantheon/Totem
Introducing Marx by Rius
Introducing Lenin by Richard Appignanesi and Oscar Zarate
Introducing Trotsky by Tariq Ali and Phil Evans
Marx's Kapital for Beginners (http://www.revleft.com/vb/marx-39-s-t41211/index.html) by David N. Smith and Phil Evans

Hodder and Stoughton
Marx: A Beginners Guide by Gill Hands

Oneworld
Marx: A Beginners Guide by Andrew Collier

Bookmarks (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.bookmarksbookshop.co.uk) (SWP)
A Rebel's Guide to Marx by Mike Gonzalez
A Rebel's Guide to Lenin by Ian Birchall
A Rebel's Guide to Trotsky by Esme Choonara

Continuum
Marx a Guide for the Perplexed by John Seed

Grantha
How to read Marx by Peter Osborne

Pluto Press
Introduction to Marxism by Ernest Mandel

And I can recommend these books, but I do think you have to at some point go straight to the horses mouth, so to speak, and actually read Marx and Lenin and Trotsky and everyone else, just to get your own opinion instead of reading someone elses.

[eric922]

Also I am planning on reading Einstein's "Why Socialism" here pretty soon and was wondering what you all thought of that and if it was a good intro to socialism?

[Rooster]

Also I am planning on reading Einstein's "Why Socialism" here pretty soon and was wondering what you all thought of that and if it was a good intro to socialism?

It's actually pretty interesting from a number of stand points but yeah, it's alright for a short introduction. If I remember it takes a more scientific tone (or maybe that's just me reading it with Einstein's voice in my head). It's only a short pamphlet anyway so why not read it?

[eric922]

Just a quick update. I am current reading the Communist Party USA's platform and if what they are outlining are the goals of Socialism then I fully support that.

[Lunatic Concept]

Cool cool Keep it up :thumbup1:

[chegitz guevara]

There are a couple of things in there, particularly the German Ideology, that I think are a bit much.

The whole GI is a bit much, but the first part that just deals with historical materialism is both easy and excellent. I found it easier to understand than the Manifesto.

[Rooster]

The whole GI is a bit much, but the first part that just deals with historical materialism is both easy and excellent. I found it easier to understand than the Manifesto.

While on this, there is a nice abridged version. And, wasn't much of this written by Engels?

This editon here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/German-Ideology-Introduction-Critique-Political/dp/0853152179/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300900996&sr=1-1

[chegitz guevara]

I think that's the one I read, but it had a different cover.