What Will Replace Collective Bargaining in Wisconsin?

[Dean]

The bill was a handout for Koch industries and serves as a generalized attack on democracy. Private consultancy firms and industrial backers of the Democratic party stand to gain from the bill.


(1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state.
The fallout from this legislation will be a new Democratic-Republican paradigm which is far more hostile to labor (yet again!), given the expected decline in political investment that organized labor will be able to offer. Furthermore, we will experience a massive reduction of democracy - both internally, among Wisconsin AFSCME workers, and nationally, by the political realignment against labor and other popular interests touted by labor. Already, however, this reduction of democracy is being touted as a "win for democracy," and only the resident leftist-scapegoat Michael Moore has the audacity to call (http://www.democracynow.org/2011/3/10/this_is_a_class_war_michael) this hindrance to democracy for what it is.
http://thethinred.blogspot.com/2011/03/what-will-replace-collective-bargaining.html

[PhoenixAsh]

That is the problem with "(social) democracy" in every country. They oppose somethig on political grounds but when they gain power they do not change it or repeal it but accept it as the new reality...which really leaves no room for speculation on their intentions and where their true colors lie.

[Dean]

That is the problem with "(social) democracy" in every country. They oppose somethig on political grounds but when they gain power they do not change it or repeal it but accept it as the new reality...which really leaves no room for speculation on their intentions and where their true colors lie.

Interesting, then, how differently they portray themselves, despite their actions. Obama's treatment of Manning contrasts with his stated support for "government whistle blowers" in much the same way.

They won't undermine their interests anyhow.

[RGacky3]

That is the problem with "(social) democracy" in every country. They oppose somethig on political grounds but when they gain power they do not change it or repeal it but accept it as the new reality...which really leaves no room for speculation on their intentions and where their true colors lie.

I kind of agree, social democracy is'nt the problem perse, its social democrats that sell out, social democracy in Europe was NOT brought about by social-democrats, it was brought about by Socialists and Communists.

People that just want to keep the status quo will sell out.

[Tim Finnegan]

That is the problem with "(social) democracy" in every country. They oppose somethig on political grounds but when they gain power they do not change it or repeal it but accept it as the new reality...which really leaves no room for speculation on their intentions and where their true colors lie.
True. Social democracy began as reformist socialism, then it became a middle-path (http://www.rantsnraves.org/images/smilies/fromgunner/emot-airquote.gif), then it became welfare capitalism, and now it's just liberal capitalism with a fancy name. It is quite possibly the only major political movement that spent a century heading exactly backwards.

[RGacky3]

Social democracy, or the european model is FAR from universal, you have the norwegian model, which is way different from the french model, which is different from the German model which is different from the swedish model.

Its not all the same.

[bcbm]

i would call this a "win for democracy"

[Bud Struggle]

Look this is what the people wanted when they vot4en in walker and the Republicans--yes it is a bit of a suprise on how it all went down, but Walker was voted in the the Governor. NOW let's see how all this plays out in the NEXT election.

And look--nobody's going to be recalled. Walker can't for another 9 months and this will all be forgotten by then--maybe. If it is the unions all over the country have lost for good, or at least for the forseeable future.

It's a gamble on both sides--let's see how it all plays out.

[Skooma Addict]

So what exactly happened? Something was passed quickly which eliminated collective bargaining (Is it only for teachers or all unions)? I haven't been following the story.

Edit: was there more to this bill? I assume so since people always try to sneak things in.

[RGacky3]

Look this is what the people wanted when they vot4en in walker and the Republicans--yes it is a bit of a suprise on how it all went down, but Walker was voted in the the Governor.

No its not, there was no campain ad saying "We're gonna crush the Unions" and public opinoin, even amung republicans is solidly against walker and the ant-union bill now.


And look--nobody's going to be recalled. Walker can't for another 9 months and this will all be forgotten by then--maybe. If it is the unions all over the country have lost for good, or at least for the forseeable future.


Some senators might get recalled (I'm guessing they will) and maybe so wll walker. I doubt it will be forgotten by then.

Its not done yet, it can be over turned, talks of general strikes, there are still tens and tens of thousands of people out (last I heard 100,000).

[StockholmSyndrome]

I'm surprised to see Marxists and communists using moralistic words like "sell out" to blame individuals for the systemic devolution of social-democracy into a bourgeois capitalist ideology. I could just as easily blame individuals and opportunists for the failure of the Soviet Union, but I would immediately be attacked for being a-historical and not taking objective factors into account or recognizing that capitalism is a global system.

[Tim Finnegan]

Social democracy, or the european model is FAR from universal, you have the norwegian model, which is way different from the french model, which is different from the German model which is different from the swedish model.

Its not all the same.
Granted, but I'm talking about the broad tendency of the European centre-left. There's a fairly general movement from reformist socialism, to social democracy proper, to an ongoing retreat before neoliberalism.

[Bud Struggle]

No its not, there was no campain ad saying "We're gonna crush the Unions" and public opinoin, even amung republicans is solidly against walker and the ant-union bill now. I understand that for NOW. But let'sw see how it all plays out. and while unionsw are imprtant you you--for the majority of Americans they are more of a memory. A lot of people went to Madison for the protest--but a lot went for the pizzas, too.


Some senators might get recalled (I'm guessing they will) and maybe so wll walker. I doubt it will be forgotten by then.
Zero recall. I'm predicting it. You can call me on this if I'm wrong--what do you predict?


Its not done yet, it can be over turned, talks of general strikes, there are still tens and tens of thousands of people out (last I heard 100,000). Again, I predict--no greneral strike. Overall unions just aren't that important.

I could be wrong--but well see in a couple of months.

[RGacky3]

A lot of people went to Madison for the protest--but a lot went for the pizzas, too.


You really believe that? That people stod out there in the freezing cold for hours and hours protesting chanting holding up signs .... Because maybe, just maybe, they might get a free slice of pizza? Don't be stupid Bud.

Face it, this was a mass movement, not backed by money, not paid for, not even organized (spontaneous), and a movement that put the tea party to shame.


Zero recall. I'm predicting it. You can call me on this if I'm wrong--what do you predict?


I'm predicting some of the state senators get recalled, as far as Walker, I can't say for sure, but he's not getting a second term, and it would'nt suprise me if he's recalled.

REmember, Walker and most republicans won due to low voter turnout.


Again, I predict--no greneral strike. Overall unions just aren't that important.

I could be wrong--but well see in a couple of months.

A general strike is damn near a revolution, so I"d be pleasently suprised, however you don't need big unions for a general strike perse, just enough to get the ball rolling.

ALso, in Wisconsin, In the rust belt and midwest, Unions are still a major public figure.

[Dean]

So what exactly happened? Something was passed quickly which eliminated collective bargaining (Is it only for teachers or all unions)? I haven't been following the story.
This is for all AFSCME that deal with the state in Wisconsin, as far as I know.


Edit: was there more to this bill? I assume so since people always try to sneak things in.
The article linked cites at least one provision that would eliminate bids for sales of public utilities. There was a lot of allocative measures in the original bill that were eliminated in order to pass the bill (since a bunch of Dems had left and they didn't have enough total voters to vote on the measure). I'm not sure what the leaner bill included.


Look this is what the people wanted when they vot4en in walker and the Republicans--yes it is a bit of a surprise on how it all went down, but Walker was voted in the the Governor. NOW let's see how all this plays out in the NEXT election.
A vote for a politician does not translate to the endorsement of policies that the politician implements, especially when the policies were never discussed during the election.


And look--nobody's going to be recalled. Walker can't for another 9 months and this will all be forgotten by then--maybe. If it is the unions all over the country have lost for good, or at least for the forseeable future.
Most promises that politicians break are not deliberate, straightforward acquisitions from the constituency. When you take real value directly from people like this, the backlash is bound to be massive and sustained.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

By the way, that provision allowing the no-bid sales (aka robbery) of public utilities may not have gotten so much attention had the right not tried to ram it all thru in one bill. The fallout resulted in the Koch Bros issuing a statement that they aren't interested in the plants (for now).