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Fabrizio
16th March 2011, 05:17
I like these people, does anyone have more info on them?

http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=statements&subName=display&statementId=39

Hands off Libya: victory to Gaddafi
Issued by: CPGB-ML
Issued on: 11 March 2011

Download statement as a PDF (http://www.cpgb-ml.org/download/leaflets/Libya_20110311.pdf)

The CPGB-ML calls for support for the Libyan government in its fight to crush attempts to take control of Libyan oil out of the hands of the Libyan people.

We must resist attempts by foreign powers, especially western imperialists, who, in the interests of gaining control over its oil resources, want to Balkanise Libya, or to turn it into a client state and a base for attacking the democratic movements now surging in the rest of the Arab world and Africa.

Attempts by the imperialist media to portray the Libyan government in the same light as those of the puppet dictators in Tunisia, Egypt and Bahrain are totally fraudulent, as are attempts to depict the opponents of the Libyan regime as rising up in the interests of freedom alongside the peoples of those Arab countries that are clients of western imperialism.

To compare Libya with Tunisia, Egypt or Bahrain is to compare chalk with cheese. To start with, Libya has a standard of living comparable to Britain's - one of the highest in Africa. Not bad for a country that in 1951 was officially the poorest in the world.

Yes, Libya has acquired oil wealth since then, but this does not lead automatically to a high standard of living for the population: one has only to look at Nigeria or Equatorial Guinea, where the exploitation of oil resources has led to a dramatic fall in general living standards.

Gains of the revolution

Under the Gaddafi regime in Libya, women have gained full legal equality with men. Everybody has enough food on the table and every Libyan is provided with decent rent-free housing, has free access to good quality health care and to education services. This is hardly the situation in those countries of the Arab world that meet with imperialist approval!

James Petras has very well explained the imperialist oppression to which these countries are subjected, which leads directly to the dire poverty of most of the population and the intense frustration of the middle class:

"... most of the Arab economies where the revolts are taking place are based on 'rents' from oil, gas, minerals and tourism, which provide most of the export earnings and state revenues. These economic sectors are, in effect, export enclaves employing a tiny fraction of the labour force ... [they] do not have links to a diversified productive domestic economy: oil is exported and finished manufactured goods as well as financial and high tech services are all imported and controlled by foreign multinationals and ex-pats linked to the ruling class ...

"Rent-based income may generate great wealth, especially as energy prices soar, but the funds accrue to a class of ‘rentiers’ who have no vocation or inclination for deepening and extending the process of economic development and innovation ...

"Beyond pillaging the public treasury, the ruling clan-class promotes 'free trade', ie, importing cheap finished products, thus undermining any indigenous domestic start-ups in the 'productive' manufacturing, agricultural or technical sector." ('Roots of the Arab revolts and premature celebrations', axisoflogic.com, 3 March 2011)

In such countries, the ruling class that facilitates the imperialist pillage of its country enjoys luxury beyond all dreams, while the poor have nothing but their religion to console them. This simply is not the situation in Libya, where the oil wealth has been used to provide a high standard of living for the people.

Opponents of the regime

Why then are we now witnessing civil war in Libya?

Gaddafi's regime is far from acceptable to all Libyans, notwithstanding the fact that it is not at all an economic failure. It has to be remembered that Gaddafi has been leading his country out of feudalism into the modern world, and the vested interests of the old regime don't much like this.

Feudal tribal chiefs do not like to see their power ebbing away. Their religious ideologues do not like to see a society arising that rejects their medievalist tenets, such as women's inferiority and a predilection for cruel and unusual punishments for crimes - dating from the times when nomadic societies had no resources to develop more humane methods of dealing with offenders.

And of course, since as yet the world has never known a society that is capable of providing to all its members everything that they need, there will always be people who are disgruntled enough to be mobilised - against their own interests - by reactionaries making all kinds of empty promises in their endeavour to overturn progressive regimes. In Libya today, unemployment is a problem, even if hunger is not.

Oil and imperialism

Most of the country's problems are centred in the east, around Benghazi - the area, incidentally, which is the centre of Libya's oil industry. This region is in the part of the country called Cyrenaica, home to the Senoussi clan to which King Idriss, the puppet of British imperialism who was overthrown by Gaddafi's coup, belonged.

It is obvious that clan loyalties that no longer have any relevance in the modern world have been conjured up by reactionaries hoping to recapture their lost glory, no doubt with appeals to the most medieval of religious traditions.

Western imperialism, outraged by Libya's nationalisation of its oil under Gaddafi, and by Gaddafi's unfailing support for anti-imperialist causes (South Africa, Palestine, Ireland etc), has also always opposed the Gaddafi regime, and will certainly have been making contacts among disaffected sections of the Libyan population, waiting for happier days when enough forces could be mustered for overthrow of the Libyan government from within.

Defence of the revolution

In these circumstances, it should be obvious that for the Gaddafi regime to survive at all and to continue implementing its progressive programme, it had to resort to repression of its most dangerous enemies.

We are in no position to say whether or not that repression was taken too far since we have no evidence either way, but to fail to suppress dangerous enemies of the revolution - and to take timely measures firmly to discourage ordinary people from being seduced by their weasel words - would certainly amount to betraying the revolution and the people.

Friends of Libya have, in recent years, been alarmed at the concessions Gaddafi felt constrained to make to the outrageous demands of western imperialism in order to break the vice of sanctions that was beginning to destroy the social gains that had been so painstakingly built up.

We have not been happy that Libya should have accepted responsibility for the Lockerbie affair, although the evidence is perfectly clear that this had nothing to do with Libya. We are even less happy that Libya gave up its right to develop an independent nuclear industry.

However, whatever concessions Libya has made with a gun pointed at its head, it has still not descended to the level of a client state in the way that Egypt and Tunisia had, or Saudi Arabia, Bahrain or Yemen.

In order to ensure Gaddafi's defeat, western imperialism has already begun imposing economic sanctions that include freezing Libyan assets abroad. Now it is seriously considering military intervention, initially in the form of imposing no fly-zones over Libya's sovereign territory - a clear act of war.

SAS officers have been intercepted trying to provide military support to insurgents, while the French imperialist government has already leapt in to 'recognise' the council formed in the east of Libya, led by former minister Mustafa Jalil, which is fighting for the government's overthrow.

Some people and organisations, such as Stop the War, have been bamboozled by the non-stop and ubiquitous Goebbelsian propaganda that has spewed forth from the imperialist media ever since Gaddafi's regime was put in place into believing that he is some kind of a monster who must be overthrown at all costs. In view of his record in defending the interests of the Libyan people, such an approach is absurd.

Stop the War, dominated as it is by organisations that devote themselves to spreading illusions in social democracy (ie, futile hopes that solutions for the working class and oppressed people are to be found within capitalism), still finds itself cheerleading for Gaddafi's opponents: their only reason for opposing imperialist military intervention is that it may be harmful to the cause of imperialism's local agents in Libya!

Down with social-democratic treachery; down with imperialism!

VICTORY TO THE LIBYAN REVOLUTION; VICTORY TO GADDAFI!

HANDS OFF LIBYA!

B5C
16th March 2011, 05:23
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/picard_facepalm.jpg

BIG BROTHER
16th March 2011, 05:37
It seems to me that this folks completely ignore class struggle within Lybia and fail to see that you can both condemn Imperialism while supporting the worker's fight back in Lybia against a regime that was willing to give out oil to the extent it could protect its own priviledges.

Robespierre Richard
16th March 2011, 05:45
I haven't heard much material support for the idea that Qadhaffi is anti-imperialist today. It seems more that he has been isolated and seeking out trade deals and investments lately. (About the same with DPRK by the way.)

#FF0000
16th March 2011, 05:52
lol

Fabrizio
16th March 2011, 06:18
I haven't heard much material support for the idea that Qadhaffi is anti-imperialist today. It seems more that he has been isolated and seeking out trade deals and investments lately. (About the same with DPRK by the way.)

Within the options open to him, he was as Anti-Imperialist as possible. Though I prefer to say "pro-Libya" than Anti-Imperialist, as ideologies beginning with "Anti", I dislike.

He did carry out some opening to the West, I think this is inevitable once a revolution reaches a certain stage of development. Like in China. However, he pushed for the best terms possible for Libya within the economic and geopoltiical situation. No comparison to Ben Ali or Mubarak.

This is why the West wants him out. Not because he was some nut who declared constant war on them, but simply because he wanted mutual respect and development. The Western govts cannot have this, they want a puppet, or nothing.

#FF0000
16th March 2011, 06:19
No comparison to Ben Ali or Mubarak.

That's true. Gaddafi has been far more brutal in the repression of workers in Libya.

But, hey, as long as he's being anti-imperialist, right!?

*throws workers under bus*

B5C
16th March 2011, 06:57
This is why the West wants him out. Not because he was some nut who declared constant war on them, but simply because he wanted mutual respect and development. The Western govts cannot have this, they want a puppet, or nothing.

The biggest reason why the west wants him out because his an major asshole and he loves to brutalize his own people in order to stay in power. The man doesn't care if he has to kill 2/3 of his own people to stay in power.

The oil and power in the region once he is removed is just dessert they get for getting rid of an dictator.

southernmissfan
16th March 2011, 07:04
The biggest reason why the west wants him out because his an major asshole and he loves to brutalize his own people in order to stay in power. The man doesn't care if he has to kill 2/3 of his own people to stay in power.


So you think the West wants him out because he's a bad guy? Do you have even the most basic knowledge of modern world history?

#FF0000
16th March 2011, 07:32
The biggest reason why the west wants him out because his an major asshole and he loves to brutalize his own people in order to stay in power. The man doesn't care if he has to kill 2/3 of his own people to stay in power.

This is so cute.

Os Cangaceiros
16th March 2011, 07:46
Well, the Libyan regime actually has a fairly extensive history of 1) collaborating with capitalist states and business interests, and 2) brutally supressing its own populace. But hey, the devil ya know, amirite?

Le Socialiste
16th March 2011, 07:47
Whatever Gaddafi's initial intentions, he has proven himself to be little more than an opportunistic wretch, one all too willing to sell his country's resources to the highest bidder in order to sustain his grip on power. He is corrupt, and deserves to be thrown out (whatever happens to him at the hands of his people after that is up to them). You, and the party/organization you quote, seem to ignore the fact that Gaddafi has sold his oil resources to Western oil companies and markets, essentially undermining the struggle in his country. What's more, he has shown nothing in the way of revolutionary action beyond the veil of 'social democracy' (minus the 'democracy'). He is a puppet for the capitalist interests of the Western powers, raping and plundering the lands, freedoms, and resources that his people require to sustain themselves, their families, and their communities. They deserve a free Libya, not the tyrannical terror they live under now.

Fabrizio
16th March 2011, 08:15
Well, the Libyan regime actually has a fairly extensive history of 1) collaborating with capitalist states and business interests, and 2) brutally supressing its own populace. But hey, the devil ya know, amirite?

He has little choice but to "collaborate", it's the reality we all live under. Idealists don't stay in power, only pragmatists, and if you're out of power you can't help anyone.

The wealth from the oil industry has been used to develop Libya greatly, and the terms of western involvement in Libya are much more beneficial to the Libyans than is the case in Egypt, Tunisia, etc.

Hoplite
16th March 2011, 08:37
He has little choice but to "collaborate", it's the reality we all live under. Idealists don't stay in power, only pragmatists, and if you're out of power you can't help anyone. It seems to me that he collaborated and still didn't help anyone.


The wealth from the oil industry has been used to develop Libya greatly Erm, no. The oil wealth has been used to develop Benghazi and Tripoli as well as Gaddafi's own family. Grinding poverty in the areas outside the major cities is a contributing factor to the rebellion.

Magón
16th March 2011, 14:54
The biggest reason why the west wants him out because his an major asshole and he loves to brutalize his own people in order to stay in power. The man doesn't care if he has to kill 2/3 of his own people to stay in power.

The West doesn't see an evil dictator until he becomes the latest hot topic in headlines that says so, and it doesn't matter if they've been backing him for however long. Until the major media says he's an evil dictator in their top headline report, then the West changes it's tune pretty quickly, and starts to "care" about the atrocities and other bad shit, the person's done who they've been backing.

Why do you think people like Gadaffi and especially Mubarak, have been in power for years, doing what they do without much Western say in it to stop?

RGacky3
16th March 2011, 14:59
He has little choice but to "collaborate", it's the reality we all live under. Idealists don't stay in power, only pragmatists, and if you're out of power you can't help anyone.

The wealth from the oil industry has been used to develop Libya greatly, and the terms of western involvement in Libya are much more beneficial to the Libyans than is the case in Egypt, Tunisia, etc.

And make a buttload of money for the Gaddaffi family, and nowerdays, sell it off to foreign corporations for profit.

Your a tool that supports ANYTHING anti-US.

Pragmatic ... like what, bombing your own towns?

Pro-Lybia my ass, he's pro-Gaddafi.

hatzel
16th March 2011, 16:19
I like these people, does anyone have more info on them?

Yeah, I've got some more information, if you want: CPGB-ML = absolute tools. Hope this helps! :)

Kiev Communard
16th March 2011, 16:26
The wealth from the oil industry has been used to develop Libya greatly, and the terms of western involvement in Libya are much more beneficial to the Libyans than is the case in Egypt, Tunisia, etc.


Does it mean that Norway is socialist as it is using the profits from its oil industry to develop the economy in general and to prop up the structures of welfare state :rolleyes:?

Tim Finnegan
16th March 2011, 16:47
The CPGB-ML are a bunch of kooks devoted exclusively to making the rest of the British far-left look bad by playing out every single bullshit stereotype that the tabloids revel in. They do not and have never had anything useful to say (and that includes when they were still in Scargill's little vanity party).

Fabrizio
16th March 2011, 16:50
Does it mean that Norway is socialist as it is using the profits from its oil industry to develop the economy in general and to prop up the structures of welfare state :rolleyes:?

Well first I didn't say Libya was "socialist" so I don't know where you pulled that out of. I said it was a better model than many others. I am not into these pedantic far-left theoretical discussions where evrything depends on which paticular arbitrary category we place something into. I would rather start from reality.

Secondly, Norway is a pretty progressive model, so if your "criticism" is to compare Libya with Norway, I'll be happy.

IndependentCitizen
16th March 2011, 16:55
What...?

Fabrizio
16th March 2011, 16:55
Your a tool that supports ANYTHING anti-US.

Not true, I oppose many forces which are anti-US. But I note how democratic of you begin with the insults as soon as someone disagrees with you...is this what Libyns have to look forward to once you guys lead them to liberation?:lol:


Pro-Lybia my ass, he's pro-Gaddafi.

Everyone is pro themselves, welcome to life. At least he got somehting done for his people while doing it, unlinke most leaders. Who really cares if he took a cut?

RATM-Eubie
16th March 2011, 17:01
Im still trying to understand how you are at all trying to back up Gadaffi's regime.

danyboy27
16th March 2011, 17:35
Im still trying to understand how you are at all trying to back up Gadaffi's regime.

beccause well, Libya is full of tribes and they need a strongman in charge to, you know, spread the wealth and shit, otherwise there would be a civil was and a massive genocide.

Kadafi is doing all this out of kindness for his own people obviously.

Tim Finnegan
16th March 2011, 17:50
beccause well, Libya is full of tribes and they need a strongman in charge to, you know, spread the wealth and shit, otherwise there would be a civil was and a massive genocide.

Kadafi is doing all this out of kindness for his own people obviously.
Why, he's a modern day Genghis Khan! :D

...Wait, no, that doesn't sound right. :confused:

Obs
16th March 2011, 17:58
I usually like the CPGB-ML, but they tend to get too pious and stubborn from time to time. This is one such case. I'm really not sure what side to pick in the Libyan conflict, but I really don't think much is to be gained through blasting "victory to Muammar al-Gaddafi" through the biggest speakers you can find.

Terminator X
16th March 2011, 18:24
Trash bags full of drugs had to have been consumed immediately prior to the writing of this article.

RGacky3
16th March 2011, 19:19
But I note how democratic of you begin with the insults as soon as someone disagrees with you...is this what Libyns have to look forward to once you guys lead them to liberation?:lol:


A: Democracy does'nt mean you can have dumb opinions without them being called out as dumb.

B: By "you guys" you mean the people of Lybia right?


At least he got somehting done for his people while doing it, unlinke most leaders. Who really cares if he took a cut?

Obviously the people of Lybia do, and they care that BP is also taking a huge cut, and they care that they don't have basic freedom or democracy or socialism.

Rooster
16th March 2011, 19:47
Meh, just more socialist demagogy acting as window dressing.

Nothing Human Is Alien
16th March 2011, 19:56
I'm really not sure what side to pick in the Libyan conflict

How about..... the international working class?

RATM-Eubie
16th March 2011, 20:11
beccause well, Libya is full of tribes and they need a strongman in charge to, you know, spread the wealth and shit, otherwise there would be a civil was and a massive genocide.

Kadafi is doing all this out of kindness for his own people obviously.

Cant tell if your being sarcastic on this or not..... :confused:

And there is a civil war going on against the man who is the supposed "strong man".......
Whatever happened to democracy and freedom?

Obs
16th March 2011, 20:18
How about..... the international working class?

Of course, being a totalitarian stalinoid my ambition is to find the cruelest ways to oppress as many workers as possible. You should know this.

Comrade Gwydion
16th March 2011, 20:38
On the discussion on wether the west wants Quadaffi gone because of business-interests or because of humanitarian reasons:

Why does anybody think the west wants Quadaffi gone? By his personality he's a perfect example of how 'anti-western'-ism makes someone a nutcase, while in his actual actions he's very friendly to the Europe and western businesses. The western government loves him! Bunga bunga!

RGacky3
16th March 2011, 20:47
Cant tell if your being sarcastic on this or not..... :confused:

And there is a civil war going on against the man who is the supposed "strong man".......
Whatever happened to democracy and freedom?

He's being sarcastic.




Bunga Bunga baby.

Hoplite
16th March 2011, 21:06
At least he got somehting done for his people while doing it, unlinke most leaders. Such as?


Who really cares if he took a cut?
**Raises hand***

Fabrizio
16th March 2011, 22:14
Obviously the people of Lybia do, and they care that BP is also taking a huge cut, and they care that they don't have basic freedom or democracy or socialism.

How do you kniw what the people of Libya think? I see pictures of massive crowds coming out to support Gadaffi.

The "rebels" have taken overcities by force, and they jsut happened to have a load of weapons and military expertise at their disposal. And SAS agents. Hardly a spontaneous uprising.

Anyway, Gadaffi will kick some ass, he is no pushover. Cameron, Sarkozy and Obama will be left wishing they hadn't stabbed him in the back like this.

Tim Finnegan
16th March 2011, 23:26
The "rebels" have taken overcities by force, and they jsut happened to have a load of weapons and military expertise at their disposal. And SAS agents. Hardly a spontaneous uprising.
You realise the extent of military defections, don't you? Most of the weaponry as Gaddafi's own.

gorillafuck
16th March 2011, 23:39
It seems to me that this folks completely ignore class struggle within Lybia and fail to see that you can both condemn Imperialism while supporting the worker's fight back in Lybia against a regime that was willing to give out oil to the extent it could protect its own priviledges.This revolt doesn't have to do with class struggle though.

Both sides of this revolt suck. Also lol at the op for supporting Qaddafi.

Bud Struggle
16th March 2011, 23:50
This revolt doesn't have to do with class struggle though.

Both sides of this revolt suck.

That's nonsense. People struggeling to be free never suck. Just because they don't parade around supporting issues and causes you think are so freakin' worthwhile doesn't mean that they people cant better their lives and get themselves some freedoms.

And you wonder why in all these Revolutions no one even hints at Communism. You people and your beliefs are ignored for a good reason.

Tim Finnegan
17th March 2011, 00:03
This revolt doesn't have to do with class struggle though.
I think that struggling for democracy against dictatorship is an expression of class struggle, even if it is an incomplete and un-self-aware one. Marx supported the Chartists, did he not?


And you wonder why in all these Revolutions no one even hints at Communism. You people and your beliefs are ignored for a good reason.
Actually, there have been revolutionary socialist voices in Egypt and Tunisia. They're not really filtering through to the West, but they gained a certain influence in the trade unions, who, it should be remembered, where at the forefront of the anti-Mubarak regime.

Dr Mindbender
17th March 2011, 02:52
i think the most pertinent question is will Libya and the arab world be better off with the pro west puppet that America will look to put in his place?


I'm not a Ghaddafi fan but i wonder if he would be worse than yet another pro Israel croney and yes man for the whitehouse. From what i gather from what i've seen on television the majority of Ghaddafi's enemies come from the pro royalist privileged classes of Libyan society. This is a bourgeoisie revolution.


The US know they have lost their ally mubarak and are looking for another lapdog to take his place.

Ocean Seal
17th March 2011, 03:01
My criticism to the anti-Gaddafi group lies here. To what extent do you support the monarchist rebels and what do you believe that the workers will gain from it? What do you believe that the imperial powers will gain out of it. Why is an invasion on the table? Don't support Gaddafi, but keep in mind that his adversaries aren't Saints and that there are certain people who would benefit greatly from his downfall.

#FF0000
17th March 2011, 03:08
What makes the rebels monarchs?

Tim Finnegan
17th March 2011, 03:12
My criticism to the anti-Gaddafi group lies here. To what extent do you support the monarchist rebels and what do you believe that the workers will gain from it?
Not all of the rebels are monarchist, and, for those that are, it doesn't mean much. It's mostly just an attempt to derive legitimacy from external sources in the absence of the confidence to derive it from democratic principles, and, in those cases were it's expected to hold any weight, an argument for shifting the centre of influence away from the Fezzani tribes and back to Cyrenaican ones.
As for what they stand to gain? Well, the best outcome would be a liberal capitalist democracy, with at least some constitutional restraints on government and guarantees of individual liberty. Flawed as that is, it's leaps and bounds ahead of being the private despotate of a megalomaniac loon like our good pal the "King of Kings of Africa".


What makes the rebels monarchs?
They've adopted the old monarchist flag (although this really means about as much as the Russian Federation adopting the old tricolour after the fall of the USSR), and a small number of them have called for the re-institution of the the monarchy in a constitutional form. However, the leading organisational body of the rebels, the National Transitional Council, have declared the re-constituted state as the "Republic of Libya", and they seem to represent the dominant opinion among the rebels.

B5C
17th March 2011, 03:50
How do you kniw what the people of Libya think? I see pictures of massive crowds coming out to support Gadaffi.

It's called Propaganda. Why yell "Fuck Gadaffi" in the middle of Loyalist controlled area? Also majority of the international news stations are only seeing loyalists coincidently when their government controlled buss rolls by.



The "rebels" have taken overcities by force, and they jsut happened to have a load of weapons and military expertise at their disposal. And SAS agents. Hardly a spontaneous uprising.

Where is your source? If you claim that the rebels has taken those cities by force. Then why there are no battles between the loyalists and rebels in the rebel controlled cities. The only time we see loyalists and rebels fight is when Gadaffi's tanks come rolling in.



Anyway, Gadaffi will kick some ass, he is no pushover. Cameron, Sarkozy and Obama will be left wishing they hadn't stabbed him in the back like this.

Stabbed who? The west was working with him. We even got rid of Libya's status as a state supporter of terrorism. The west left him when Gadaffi started using total warfare on rebels and civilians. Also Gadaffi's latest speeches are not helping him very well. He sounds like he is losing it mentally or he has gotten lessons from Baghdad Bob.
s27Oq5ot0ZI

#FF0000
17th March 2011, 04:36
Anyway, Gadaffi will kick some ass, he is no pushover.

Yes, I am sure he will kill a lot of people.

Hoplite
17th March 2011, 04:58
Anyway, Gadaffi will kick some ass, he is no pushover. Cameron, Sarkozy and Obama will be left wishing they hadn't stabbed him in the back like this.
Are you mental or just new? This is not an action movie, people are ACTUALLY fighting for what they believe in and ACTUALLY dying.

Geiseric
17th March 2011, 06:04
I facepalmed SO FUCKING HARD

Fabrizio
17th March 2011, 07:13
Are you mental or just new? This is not an action movie, people are ACTUALLY fighting for what they believe in and ACTUALLY dying.

Many more people will die if Gadaffi falls, and the "rebels" start fighting out among different western backed factions for power.

The progressive Latin American countries offered to mediate, but the West and the "rebels" rejected it. This offer represents the best hope for saving lives and saving the unity of Libya as a nation.

I am not the one uncritically shouting for revolution, it's not me who is indifferent to the deaths of innocents.


As for terrorists, SAS agents and invading troops: yes, I unrepetantly hope he kicks their ass.

RGacky3
17th March 2011, 07:24
As for terrorists, SAS agents and invading troops: yes, I unrepetantly hope he kicks their ass.

Those arn't the people he's carpet bombing, its lybian men women and children.


I am not the one uncritically shouting for revolution, it's not me who is indifferent to the deaths of innocents.


Yes it is not you shouting for revolution, your defending power, and yes, you are ABSOLUTELY indifferent to the deaths of innocents.


The progressive Latin American countries offered to mediate, but the West and the "rebels" rejected it. This offer represents the best hope for saving lives and saving the unity of Libya as a nation.


The rest did'nt reject it, the Lybian people rejected it, the rebels rejected it.


Many more people will die if Gadaffi falls, and the "rebels" start fighting out among different western backed factions for power.


Your juts talking out of your ass here.

Fabrizio
17th March 2011, 07:31
Your juts talking out of your ass here.

How much do you want to bet that if Gadaffi falls, Libya will enter a civil war, and not a liberal democracy or a "workers state"...? Money where mouth is.

RGacky3
17th March 2011, 08:28
After Gadaffi is gone I doubt it will be a civil war, the pro-Gadaffi forces are not going down for Gadaffi, but its comical that your pretending to be worried about the civilians, by defending a guy bombing them.

R_P_A_S
18th March 2011, 04:27
I'm still not too sure about these Rebels.. Yes Gaddafi is a damn muppet. But I can't make up my mind on what to support... thats why I don't go to pro Libya rallies.. im confused and dont wanna be just out there cus its the thing to do. I want to be informed.

psgchisolm
18th March 2011, 05:09
How much do you want to bet that if Gadaffi falls, Libya will enter a civil war, and not a liberal democracy or a "workers state"...? Money where mouth is.
I bet there will be a lot of clashes from opposing ideologies. It's basically a civil war NOW. Maybe it might not out turn out like this. We'll just have to see.

MarxSchmarx
18th March 2011, 09:09
Glad to see the CPGB-ML is putting their MI5 funds to good use.