I have something to say

[L.A.P.]

I'm starting to get irritated by people complaining about artists expressing their political views. "I hate that Slipknot is going political, I thought they were deeper than that" :huh:. These are the same type of people who complain about artists being just entertainers yet complain when artists act like artists. I can't be the only one who thinks the "shut up and sing" thing is incredibly stupid.

[bcbm]

slipknot is still around?

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Slipknot is going political? What's their politics? I'm about to get disappointed aren't I?

[Agent Ducky]

I don't understand what's wrong with bands going political. I personally love political songs and respect political bands more than ones who are just entertainers. For me at least political songs are more interesing than ones about typical stuff (love, etc.) And I don't get why people would be complaining.

Also, what do they mean by "deeper"? Introspection on the larger state of affairs in the world/nation isn't deep? It's looking at something bigger than yourself and forming ideas about it... How is that not deep?

[L.A.P.]

slipknot is still around?

Slipknot's bigger than they ever were before.


Slipknot is going political? What's their politics? I'm about to get disappointed aren't I?

The typical anti-war left-leaning rock music.



America is a killing name
It doesn't feel or discriminate
Life is just a killing field
It's all that's left, nothing's real

Throw away your disposable past
And fall apart like a cigarette ash
We are the fatal and vital ones of the world
And we will burn your cities down

What if God doesn't care?
What if God doesn't care?

[bcbm]

i'm so out of touch:(

[Black Sheep]

Tis part of the 'a-political-ness is the new coolness' thing, sided by all politicians & those affiliated with politics are bastards.

[praxis1966]

This song's for you then, xx1994xx, especially the lyric around the 35 second mark...

jGaIaSJa630

[cakedisintegrate]

I think politics is pretty deep actually but I guess some people just want loveydovey stuff or songs about life or whatever. Personally I'm happy with good instruments and lyrics that rhyme and if the song is political then I'm fine with that. Bands exist to entertain but if they want to get a message across then good - I will respect them as people with views as well as just people who can play instruments and write music. Music is important for politics especially political movements. I don't even know who Slipknot are but if they're going political then good for them :) Anyway if people don't like it they can go listen to one of the hundreds of bands with meaningless lyrics and nice music and nice singing I mean there's loads of them.

[#FF0000]

I don't mind political music from time to time. Some folks do it pretty well, I think. Like the International Noise Conspiracy.

FyjmCg_VMU0

[Property Is Robbery]

Why would people get upset if a band/artist goes political? Unless they compromise the quality of their music for a message.

[L.A.P.]

In all honesty, as a huge heavy metal fan I will say they are probably the most reactionary fanbase out of any music genre and they get pretty pissed of when the fairly progressive bands they like speak their mind. You don't really see this in political hip-hop as much even though most Immortal Technique fans completely disagree with his political views.

[Property Is Robbery]

In all honesty, as a huge heavy metal fan I will say they are probably the most reactionary fanbase out of any music genre and they get pretty pissed of when the fairly progressive bands they like speak their mind. You don't really see this in political hip-hop as much even though most Immortal Technique fans completely disagree with his political views.
That's a good point. That's cuz IT fans are conspiracy theorist truthers and he's a paranoid socialist :lol:

[L.A.P.]

That's cuz IT fans are conspiracy theorist truthers and he's a paranoid socialist :lol:

Well, a lot of his fans are pseudo-intellectual radicals (conspiracy theorists), Liberals, or Libertarians who view his political lyrics as anti-statism not anti-capitalism because they're stupid.

[Property Is Robbery]

Not to start debating IT off topic but I doubt any real libertarians listen to him. The closest thing would be people who support Ron Paul cuz they heard of him from Alex Jones. But as soon as any libertarian hears IT say socialist they would turn it off. Whether he is or not he describes himself as a Leninist.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Most Hip Hop fans I know have been apathetic or left leaning, never me t a reactionary Hip Hop fan that I know of.

The opposite is true with most forms of heavy rock music, I went to my first ever live music event in when I was 11 years old, Ozzfest 98. My most vivid memory aside from seeing the original Black Sabbath is standing behind a group of massive biker looking dudes absolutely covered (clothing, tattoos) in Nazi imagery.

[Property Is Robbery]

Yeah unfortunately the only time metal lyrics have progressive themes is when the music starts getting closer to crust punk like a lot of grindcore bands.

[Pretty Flaco]

I was reading the first page and I was about to type something along the lines of "nb4 someone mentions immortal technique", but you bastards beat me too it.

[Johnny Kerosene]

I like Political music when every fucking line isn't a blatant political statement. It's ok when they do it one or two songs, but when every fucking song is just obvious politics, it's boring as fuck. It's ok if every line is political as well, as long as it's veiled with like metaphors and symbolism and shit.

[L.A.P.]

Yeah unfortunately the only time metal lyrics have progressive themes is when the music starts getting closer to crust punk like a lot of grindcore bands.

Well thrash metal was known for being pretty progressive lyrically mainly due to its hardcore punk influence but heavy metal itself was always an apolitical genre.

[the Left™]

I love when artists opine and enter the political arena, because it really reflects the depth of character that they possess. For example, I think the show 30 Rock is pretty funny and Alec Baldwin is one of my favorite characters. He is also a philanthropist and social democrat. I mean i might have disagreements with him ideologically but its still refreshing to see and hear some insight from people(especially considering apathy and apolitical life in the U.S. and around the world at the moment_

[Tim Finnegan]

In all honesty, as a huge heavy metal fan I will say they are probably the most reactionary fanbase out of any music genre and they get pretty pissed of when the fairly progressive bands they like speak their mind. You don't really see this in political hip-hop as much even though most Immortal Technique fans completely disagree with his political views.
I think that probably owes more to the more mainstream metal having an audience largely comprised of middle class white males- a traditionally conservative demographic- rather than any particular quality of the subculture as such. They're going to be reactionary wherever they go, it just so happens that a lot of them go there. If you get into the more underground stuff, people are generally more progressively-minded, albeit usually in a passive, liberal-by-default sort of way, and even then there's even some segments or strains which have adopted a lot of the radicalism of punk, particularly when there's a certain crossover- grindcore, thrash, and so on, or in scenes which have stronger roots in working class or ethnic minority communities. Punk gives a better impression of itself because A) its traditional popular association with certain politics creates a trickle-down effect which leaves even mainstream bands- Green Day et al.- adopting a flabby but well meaning liberalism absent in pop-metal, and B) its mutant neo-Nazi spin-off were always a pack of worthless losers, rather than a pack of losers with the occasional mad genius tucked away in their midst.

[Apoi_Viitor]

Well thrash metal was known for being pretty progressive lyrically mainly due to its hardcore punk influence but heavy metal itself was always an apolitical genre.

I've always seen Metal as a apolitical / liberal genre (although the fans are definitely not). Practically every metal band I can think of - from Slayer to Arch Enemy to Iron Maiden to Anthrax has the occasional leftist lyric.

[ZeroNowhere]

I don't mind political lyrics as such, but it's quite easy to make them pretty tiring to listen to, whether leftist or not. For example, I get annoyed quite easily by some of Anthrax's bland moralizing. Generally, I do prefer more 'personal' lyrics (eg. 'Hypnosis of Birds' by Holocaust, just about anything by Seer's Tear, 'Promised Land' by Queensryche, y asi sucesivamente), but political lyrics can occasionally be compatible with a more personal atmosphere and feeling.

For example, Holocaust are good at that, from 'Into Lebanon' to 'Transcendence'; they're pretty much my favourite band, though, so it's understandable that I think them essentially immaculate at everything. What I like about those songs is not simply a matter of lyrics, of course, and perhaps not even primarily that, but more it isn't simply political ranting or anything, but actual personal expression (which is not to say that political rants aren't authentic or anything, merely that they aren't expressed in a manner really suitable to art.) The songs aren't particularly an attempt to convince anybody of anything, but rather the songwriter (John Mortimer in this case) is pretty much convinced that what's going on is evil and the realization of the devil on Earth, and the music is primarily atmospheric and a matter of personal expression rather than of enunciating any form of politics. In addition, Mortimer has more personal convictions which mix into these feelings than purely political vitriol, which I feel helps add more depth to the thing.

A similar thing can be seen in, for example, Watchtower's 'Mayday in Kiev', which is very light in terms of actual political message, but is very dense atmospherically, and does the same 'the devil is here' thing that 'Into Lebanon' does. In fact, technothrash is generally very good at political songs just because it's good at creating a very labyrinthine and constricted atmosphere, which works very well with the general subject matter of the Cold War and nuclear stuff (or the Holocaust, occasionally, in the case of Mekong Delta and early Sieges Even). A notable example of the fusion of personal and political here is the Bulgarian band Sider, whose output is a concept album about a person who ends up going insane due to the nature of the society around him; the album is very much focused on the personal aspect, to the point of every song being essentially about the person, as well as maintaining an atmosphere appropriate to this, but this just strengthens the political aspects more than some conventional 'shouting about politics' thrash lyrics may have. Operation Mindcrime may have tried to do this, but it essentially ended up a soap opera.

Some Russian bands did tend to follow a similar merger of political and personal, such as Magnit, as well as being pretty much completely out of left field, but this probably makes sense insofar as they were singing against the Russian government while living under it (Magnit's video for 'We Live not Feeling the Country under Us' is a pretty clear example of this). On the punk side of things, The Mob may be comparable with some of the above bands.

So yes, there are a bunch of bands in this style which I like, but ultimately I do tend to find the majority of political lyrics pretty bad, and I wouldn't blame somebody for associating them with fairly bad or annoying music and lyrics, because they often are so associated.


Yeah unfortunately the only time metal lyrics have progressive themes is when the music starts getting closer to crust punk like a lot of grindcore bands.I don't think that this is true. Other than the previously mentioned thrash bands, one even has more mainstream bands like Queensryche (can't say they were generally very good at it) and Black Sabbath ('Children of the Grave', 'War Pigs', and even 'Heaven and Hell' among their best-known tracks, as well as 'Eternal Idol' and so on), as well as more obscure bands like Throes of Sanity, Liege Lord, Secrecy, Magnit and Titan Force, all generally quite far from being Thrash, grindcore or crust bands. And you don't get much more progressive than 'And Dogro lived on':

Prepare for your future -don't live within the past
The ancient cultures never knew the facts
Technology has given truth where myth had been before
It's time Humanity stepped through the door.

Of course, metal doesn't have nearly as many 'political bands' (outside of thrash, of course, and more crusty bands like Amebix) as, say, punk, but it's not an infrequent theme in metal even outside of thrash. I probably miss out on lots of the more reactionary tendencies in metal, though, as I do tend to listen more to progressive metal and technothrash (there's an awful pun there just waiting to be released). To be honest, I do tend to prefer a band not being a 'political band' as such, as this often gives more depth to their actual political songs; in a way, you get to know them better, and this allows them to integrate themselves into their political lyrics, rather than merely spouting their opinions on some pressing hot-button issues which I am tired of.

[Fawkes]

Did anyone else think this when they saw the thread title?
Giebe-uzPFg


Anyway, overtly political lyrics can get really obnoxious, though are okay if done in extreme moderation. I tend to like it when they're at least more slightly veiled than your typical Zack de la Rocha verse. Something I find interesting is the tendency people have to differentiate between the realms of the "political" and "personal". Politics in pretty much every sense of the word affects all of us in a deeply personal way, and I think some of the best lyricists are the ones that are able to evoke that. You don't need to be screaming Marxist buzzwords to be saying something relevant about how the world operates. I mean, this shit's political as fuck and not once does anyone mention "revolution" or "America":
uV3QYQzlcJ4

[Jimmie Higgins]

Anyway, overtly political lyrics can get really obnoxious, though are okay if done in extreme moderation. I tend to like it when they're at least more slightly veiled than your typical Zack de la Rocha verse. Something I find interesting is the tendency people have to differentiate between the realms of the "political" and "personal". Politics in pretty much every sense of the word affects all of us in a deeply personal way, and I think some of the best lyricists are the ones that are able to evoke that. You don't need to be screaming Marxist buzzwords to be saying something relevant about how the world operates. I mean, this shit's political as fuck and not once does anyone mention "revolution" or "America":


Good points - in general I agree, but sometimes people can be overtly political and slogan-y and it works really well. Rage Against the Machine, The Coup, Dead Kennedys, Dead Prez and so on are almost 90% straight political but have found a good niche more or less - some with sarcastic humor like Dead Kennedys and Coup, some by combining quality genre music (Dead Prez and the Coup and RATM) that's popular with political messages.

But really, I don't think there's a formula - love songs can be shit and are waaaay more didactic and overplayed than "political music" but can be done well and bring something new to the game too. Politics alone can't make or break music for me - I don't like slipknot and probably wouldn't even if they wrote the best political songs ever (I could maybe appreciate them, but not musically).

[Olentzero]

I can't be the only one who thinks the "shut up and sing" thing is incredibly stupid.No, you are not. You should check out my friend and comrade Alex Billet's blog Rebel Frequencies (http://rebelfrequencies.blogspot.com) sometime soon.

[Jimmie Higgins]

No, you are not. You should check out my friend and comrade Alex Billet's blog Rebel Frequencies (http://rebelfrequencies.blogspot.com) sometime soon.I love some of the arguments he has about "conscious" hip-hop and how it artificially segregates political music - I think it's similar with rock and punk too where bands like the Clash had a mix of styles and subjects and could be political but also write relationship songs or songs about social alienation or whatnot.

Also the one on there about the "Death of the Hipster" is a breath of fresh air:


What the backlash against VW (vampire weekend) represented, though, was how the massive shakeup in the global economy has affected people's cultural perceptions. Though the classlessness lambasted by the hipster aesthetic has never had any real veracity, neither now does the notion of being "above it all." Evictions, unemployment and poverty are an inescapable reality, and condescension toward poor people just doesn't fly like it used to.

The cultural bubble has been popped, and the downward mobility of today's young people can't be ignored, least of all by themselves. The "liminal class," insofar as it ever really existed, is basically on its way to extinction. As it disappears, it takes with it whatever content there was to hipster culture. Those hipsters lucky enough to be financially prosperous are seeing the silliness of the whole thing and trading in their skinny jeans for business suits. The rest are stuck working as baristas and living in tiny apartments with the creeping knowledge that they actually are the people they once parodied.

[Invader Zim]

Slipknot's bigger than they ever were before.

Plainly you remember the state of alternative music 10 years ago.

[Olentzero]

Jimmie, are you going to Chicago this July?

[L.A.P.]

Plainly you remember the state of alternative music 10 years ago.

Yeah, but the crowd size in their concerts are a lot bigger now as opposed to what they had in what would be called by most fans their prime period.

[Manic Impressive]

Most Hip Hop fans I know have been apathetic or left leaning, never me t a reactionary Hip Hop fan that I know of.
for real? you've never met a chauvinist hip hop fan? shit I even know a mildly racist guy who's biggest hero is Tupac.

[Wanted Man]

Slipknot's bigger than they ever were before.



The typical anti-war left-leaning rock music.

This post included some lyrics. Reading them, I can't imagine why people have so much trouble with bands "getting political". :rolleyes: Although, in fairness, I normally don't spend a lot of time pondering Slipknot's lyrics either.

Someone mentioned Iron Maiden's "occasional leftist lyric". Is this based on very recent albums or something? Because I can't remember anything of the sort. Probably for the better, anyway. Metal bands singing about politics is the only thing that's worse than the Dungeons & Dragons stuff.

[Tim Finnegan]

Someone mentioned Iron Maiden's "occasional leftist lyric". Is this based on very recent albums or something? Because I can't remember anything of the sort.
"Run to the Hills" (http://youtu.be/geHLdg_VNww) and "The Trooper" (http://youtu.be/4uq6Ax-zzkQ) are probably the most famous examples, being anti-imperialist and anti-war, respectively. Just because it's not overt doesn't mean that it's not there.

Not that they're even a particularly good example, mind, just that even in the more stereotypically "Dungeons and Dragons stuff", as you so charmingly sneer, you'll find flecks of political conciousness, in contrast to the general assumption that metal is thoroughly apolitical unless stated otherwise.

[Minima]

"As for Riefenstahl, she was neither an engaged nor a political artist, and she never made a political choice, for example, between fascism and anti-fascism. She was apolitical, young and talented, and she craved self-expression. The Nazi regime gave her the opportunity to express herself. In the same way that, in its refined, intellectual dimension, fascism brought the slogan “art for art’s sake” to its logical conclusion, so Riefenstahl took the paradigm of the apolitical artist to an extreme. It is precisely for that reason that Riefenstahl is so popular today among apolitical decadents of every stripe. For them, she is an unattainable example of radical apoliticalness."

"The source of this notion is clear: a quite peculiar understanding of “independence” and a general disenchantment with politics. Why be involved in politics if the idealists will lose all the same, and the cynics will triumph via their dirty methods? Why should the artist invest in collectivity, when individuality is the only valuable and palpable thing he has? How can we as Marxists respond to this?"


Nikolay Oleynikov and Kirill Medvedev /// On Propaganda in Art


http://www.chtodelat.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=915%3Anikolay-oleynikov-and-kirill-medvedev-on-propaganda-in-art-&catid=231%3Areader&Itemid=383&lang=en


Medvedev been my guiding star throughout the years.

[Wanted Man]

"Run to the Hills" (http://youtu.be/geHLdg_VNww) and "The Trooper" (http://youtu.be/4uq6Ax-zzkQ) are probably the most famous examples, being anti-imperialist and anti-war, respectively. Just because it's not overt doesn't mean that it's not there.

Not that they're even a particularly good example, mind, just that even in the more stereotypically "Dungeons and Dragons stuff", as you so charmingly sneer, you'll find flecks of political conciousness, in contrast to the general assumption that metal is thoroughly apolitical unless stated otherwise.

Well holy shit, thanks Tim. Iron Maiden are just positively revolutionaries by singing about how pointless wars and massacres are bad. As opposed to all the metal bands who sing about the joy of raping and killing Native Americans and about the awesomeness of the Crimean War.

In fact, when Bruce gets up there in his uniform to sing The Trooper, waving the butcher's apron in front of ecstatic fans, it's actually a sly criticism if imperialism. I didn't notice that, but thanks for enlightening me. In fact, thanks for introducing me to these songs in the first place, I had never heard of them before, given that they're only two of the most famous songs in metal history. What a wonderful medium Youtube is. You just keep discovering these hidden musical nuggets.

My feeble attempts at sarcasm aside, I maintain that neither these songs nor the fantasy ones are particularly special politically. It's not a bad thing, mind, just don't try to turn it into anything more than it is. In fact, I prefer these classic Maiden songs to their overt political commentaries like "Afraid to Shoot Strangers" or "The Age of Innocence", just to name two particularly bad examples. Or perhaps I could point you into the direction of "Mother Russia" (no Youtube link, sorry).

Anyway, I'll grant that the songs you mentioned are "leftist" in a sense that simply doesn't apply on this forum at all.

[Tim Finnegan]

Well holy shit, thanks Tim. Iron Maiden are just positively revolutionaries by singing about how pointless wars and massacres are bad. As opposed to all the metal bands who sing about the joy of raping and killing Native Americans and about the awesomeness of the Crimean War.

In fact, when Bruce gets up there in his uniform to sing The Trooper, waving the butcher's apron in front of ecstatic fans, it's actually a sly criticism if imperialism. I didn't notice that, but thanks for enlightening me. In fact, thanks for introducing me to these songs in the first place, I had never heard of them before, given that they're only two of the most famous songs in metal history. What a wonderful medium Youtube is. You just keep discovering these hidden musical nuggets.

My feeble attempts at sarcasm aside, I maintain that neither these songs nor the fantasy ones are particularly special politically. It's not a bad thing, mind, just don't try to turn it into anything more than it is. In fact, I prefer these classic Maiden songs to their overt political commentaries like "Afraid to Shoot Strangers" or "The Age of Innocence", just to name two particularly bad examples. Or perhaps I could point you into the direction of "Mother Russia" (no Youtube link, sorry).

Anyway, I'll grant that the songs you mentioned are "leftist" in a sense that simply doesn't apply on this forum at all.

Not that they're even a particularly good example, mind, just that even in the more stereotypically "Dungeons and Dragons stuff", as you so charmingly sneer, you'll find flecks of political conciousness, in contrast to the general assumption that metal is thoroughly apolitical unless stated otherwise.
But fuck it, strawmen tumble so much more easily.