Log in

View Full Version : Ancient Economics



RGacky3
15th March 2011, 11:29
Specifically Babylonian Law,

Translation of the Hammurbari Code. (http://eawc.evansville.edu/anthology/hammurabi.htm)

The interesting thing about Babylonian economics imo opinion was the rights of slaves, who had property rights, had medical rights, clothing and shelter rights, many times the "slaves" were nothing more than renters, running a farm or buisiness and paying rent (profit) to the owner), he had a right to purchase freedom for himself.

What I find interesting about this is that the life of a slave in the babylonian world looks a lot like a modern wage slave, "purchasing" your freedom would be the equivilant of saving up to buy a home or having economic freedom (your own buisiness or becoming part of the proffessional/manegerial class), HOWEVER the babylonian slave was actually almost more likely to attain freedom because his food, clothing, shelter and healthcare was a right, meaning all his income/property could go to either stuff he wanted, or saving up for freedom, whereas the modern wage slave does not have that security, and those fundementals are often made unstable to keep wage slaves in check.

The nature of the temple is also interesting, it acted as both a kind of central bank, a state treasury and a welfare system. They took taxes (in the form of tithes), they took some surplus grain and rented it out (without interest) to poor farmers, even the king had to rent from the temple, the temple was also a type of insurance for people who could'nt pay ransom for a captured person and so on.

Merchents were heavily regulated, reciepts were mandetory, losses in traveling by robbery or whatever were not allowed to be demanded from contractors.

Then you have land property rights, certain land that was considered ultimately owned by the state could not be sold or disposed of even though the owner had the right to its produce, in exchange for servace, other land was taxed

workers could not be held financially accountable for bad harvests (unless it was proven that they did'nt work), public works, irrigation and so on was communally owned and every one was required to maintain it, if one failed he had to compensate everyone else.

If the landowner profit shared with his workers, they shared losses too, if the worker was paying rent (freeman or slave), the landlord could not interfere with the work, nor could he prevent subletting, shepards pay was set.

The monetary system back then was mainly grain and other commodity money (including gold coins).

Property laws were almost always, in history conditional.

Interesting stuff.

Bud Struggle
15th March 2011, 11:34
The maybe "slave" is the wrong translation of the word.

And all rights of all people are conditional.

Dimentio
15th March 2011, 11:56
Slave is probably the wrong word, since the majority of the population - according to the Greeks - were slaves in the east.

RGacky3
15th March 2011, 13:03
The maybe "slave" is the wrong translation of the word.

And all rights of all people are conditional.


They actutally had 3 classes, land owners, craftsmen and merchants and the royal court. A secondary class (landless and Capital less), although there is'nt much agreement as to the actual position of this class, as they seam to not be mentioned much, the secondary class had lower taxes, and was less liable for crimes. (aparently over time the top class included all freemen)

Then the "slaves," who were the most numerous, but your right its not slaves in the sense we think about it, because he had rights, but he was'nt compensated directly for his work, nor was he free (without payment) to leave.

I'm not sure about the difference between captured slaves, debted slavs (people who through debt became slaves), or born slaves.

Although if a slave married a freewoman/man their kids were free, whereas if they married a slave man/woman their kids were slaves.

danyboy27
15th March 2011, 13:53
I heard similar things about african and meso-american civilisations.
Slave existed there too, but just like the babylinian there was several right allowed to them.

But i never heard of the babylonian code.

I guess its a good exemple to use to point out to those tea bagger that ''socialism'' in babylon allowed free healthcare and governement regulation while giving to a certain number of the population to live like a typical rich man.

this is just pointing out how wealth disparity is fucked up these day and how rich capitalist are running wild making all this unecessary profit.

RGacky3
15th March 2011, 14:15
Its also an example of how throught history property rights were never a fundemental right, markets were not natural, and were infact, state institutions.

Dimentio
16th March 2011, 01:27
I heard similar things about african and meso-american civilisations.
Slave existed there too, but just like the babylinian there was several right allowed to them.

But i never heard of the babylonian code.

I guess its a good exemple to use to point out to those tea bagger that ''socialism'' in babylon allowed free healthcare and governement regulation while giving to a certain number of the population to live like a typical rich man.

this is just pointing out how wealth disparity is fucked up these day and how rich capitalist are running wild making all this unecessary profit.

Don't forget that Babylon is a symbol for evil. The Babylonians enslaved Israel, which was God's chosen people before the Americans took over that role.

Manic Impressive
17th March 2011, 10:59
Don't forget that Babylon is a symbol for evil. The Babylonians enslaved Israel, which was God's chosen people before the Americans took over that role.
which one did americans take over? God's chosen people or the symbol of evil?

RGacky3
17th March 2011, 11:23
please no, can we stick to discussing the ancient economies of the near east?

it kind of also ties into an earlier thread about how economics worked in Eygpt, a command and redistributive economy, all tied to the concept that the land belonged to the Gods (giving the temples extraordinary economic power).

What is common in these economies is a type of class system based on workers/slaves, professionals and craftsmen, priests and nobles (ancient CEOs bankers and politicians) and the King who's power was tied in with the priests and nobility.

RGacky3
17th March 2011, 15:06
Also interesting was the way international trade worked, when ancient texts talk of Merchants they arn't talking about a guy with a store, or with a caravan of products, Merchants or the Merchant classes were contractors, they had stores of wears, probably contracted craftsmen, then contracted out agents to go to trade, either to execute contracts or to make deals.

For example a Merchent would hire an agent to sell wine for example that he bought from a vinyard, then the agent would be legally obliged to make a profit (probably measure in shekels), by Babylonian law, its double, the agent might then go to where wine is in demand and make a profit, in shekels, in gold perhaps, or in commodities easily transfered in babylon, all of this stuff was written in contract and likely the actual agents made very little profit while the merchents made double every transaction.

You can see how overtime the Merchant class could make HUGE profits selling things like weapons to governments.

The Merchant class were essencially bankers, a lot of buisiness was done through credit, advancing products, making grain deposits, at 1/16th interest (by law).

Most nations in the area used grain currency which made international trade a lot easier, Which ment that a wealthy merchant could have deposits in various cities, and could gain tons of wealth.

One could argue that a big reason for empires expanding at that time was controlling trade routes meaning higher profits for the merchants as well as ease of trade.