Japan versus Haiti and the rest of the third world.

[MarxSchmarx]

Out of what can only be described as morbid curiosity, I decided to check out what the neanderthals at scumfront had to say about the earthquake in North Eastern Japan.

Turns out that while there was a lot of stuff about the moon causing tectonic shifts and the nuclear debate and the sort, a lot of the posts appeared to actually convey a lot about how Japan was not at like Haiti and deserving of white support, how the Japan will successfully rebuild, and even some recognition that since Japan had sent rescue teams to Christchurch the white race had a duty to reciprocate.

There weren't any posts about how this is typical third world mismanagement, how it tugs at white hearts, etc... I suppose this is really no surprise given that, after all, Hitler considered the Japanese to be "yellow aryans" and in Apartheid south Africa Japanese citizens and naturalized Japanese were granted "honorary white" status.

And as bad as the disaster has been, the western world has largely held back on having the overwhelming feel to "help" in the form of material donations - as they would with any first world country.

It's an evolving story, to be sure. But I can't help but wonder if the rest of the west has a similar reaction to this. There is a presumption that the Japanese society even in this traditionally economically depressed and arguably discriminated area can rebuild itself - a presumption which, notably, did not hold for the overwhelmingly black New Orleans city government, much less Chile, Sri Lanka or Haiti.

I am not sure what to make of this. On the one hand it seems to expose the utter racism and disgusting assumptions people hold about why Haiti was a disaster and Japan was not. On the other hand, it does suggest that even the most thick-skulled nutjobs can recognize that non-white people can suffer and that non-whites go beyond the "yellow peril" and are actually, when it suits their interests, not really all that different from them.

Thoughts?

[Os Cangaceiros]

I remember watching documentaries in grade school (in earth science) about Japan's technological advances in the science of earthquake damage mitigation. I think that in the minds of many people Japan is a highly developed industrial nation and Haiti is, well, the extremely poor country that has had a humanitarian crisis for a long time.

[Queercommie Girl]

There weren't any posts about how this is typical third world mismanagement, how it tugs at white hearts, etc... I suppose this is really no surprise given that, after all, Hitler considered the Japanese to be "yellow aryans" and in Apartheid south Africa Japanese citizens and naturalized Japanese were granted "honorary white" status.


It just means that racism is never some dogmatic religious doctrine, but rather a political ideology that evolves constantly to suit pragmatic and utilitarian needs. This is the same for left-wing ideologies.

It's also interesting to note that the Chinese were never given the "honorary white" status by any European Nazis. And the Japanese were extremely racist to the Chinese, calling us the "Zhina ren" (Mandarin pronunciation), which was used as a very discriminatory term.

Chinese and Japanese are broadly of the same "Mongolid" race, but we are from very different ethno-linguistic groups. Chinese is a Sino-Tibetan language while Japanese is an Altaic language originating from North Asia and Central Asia, as with Manchu, Mongol and Turkish. Sino-Tibetan peoples are generally more peaceful and lack the strong "warrior culture" (e.g. Japanese samurai or Mongol horsemen) of Altaic peoples.

Though nowadays, Americans are viewing the Chinese more and more like how they view the Japanese, since China is a rising economic and geopolitical power.



I am not sure what to make of this. On the one hand it seems to expose the utter racism and disgusting assumptions people hold about why Haiti was a disaster and Japan was not. On the other hand, it does suggest that even the most thick-skulled nutjobs can recognize that non-white people can suffer and that non-whites go beyond the "yellow peril" and are actually, when it suits their interests, not really all that different from them.
What needs to be recognised is simply that East Asians, particularly poorer East Asians like the Chinese, face just as much racism from whites, especially ultra-masculine trigger-happy right-wing hawkish white trash in the United States, as Blacks and Muslims do, just in different ways. (See my thread on Sinophobia http://www.revleft.com/vb/sinophobia-hate-crime-t151406/index.html)

[Os Cangaceiros]

white trash

That phrase is kind of bigoted (and classist) in and of itself, honestly.

[Queercommie Girl]

That phrase is kind of bigoted (and classist) in and of itself, honestly.


I'm referring to right-wing fascists in America. The fact that they may have some white working class support doesn't in any way make them any less ultra-reactionary.

To say that it's "classist" is fucking crazy considering the foremost victims of white-against-East Asian racism are certainly not rich Japanese executives, but poor Chinese and Vietnamese coolies.

Or are you one of those stupid idiots who deny that East Asian, especially poor East Asians like Vietnamese, can be discriminated against in the West just like Blacks and Muslims can be?

Sinophobia is intrinsically no less of a problem than Islamophobia.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Here's what Wiki says:



The term white trash first came into common use in the 1830s as a pejorative used by house slaves against poor whites. In 1833 Fanny Kemble (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Fanny_Kemble), an English actress visiting Georgia, noted in her journal: "The slaves themselves entertain the very highest contempt for white servants, whom they designate as 'poor white trash'".[4] (http://www.revleft.com/vb/#cite_note-3)[5] (http://www.revleft.com/vb/#cite_note-4)

In 1854, Harriet Beecher Stowe (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Harriet_Beecher_Stowe) wrote the chapter "Poor White Trash" in her book A Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/A_Key_to_Uncle_Tom%27s_Cabin). Stowe tells the reader that slavery not only produces "degraded, miserable slaves", but also poor whites who are even more degraded and miserable. The plantation system (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Plantation_system) forced those whites to struggle for subsistence. Beyond economic factors, Stowe traces this class to the shortage of schools and churches in their community, and says that both blacks and whites in the area look down on these "poor white trash".[6] (http://www.revleft.com/vb/#cite_note-5)

By 1855 the term had passed into common usage by upper class whites, and was common usage among all Southerners, regardless of race, throughout the rest of the 19th century.

So basically the term has it's origins in a derisive term for whites so miserably poor that they survived on scraps thrown from the master's table. It is very much a classist term, which is unfortunately used far too often on this site. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but I'd appreciate it if people didn't use it.

[Queercommie Girl]

Here's what Wiki says:

So basically the term has it's origins in a derisive term for whites so miserably poor that they survived on scraps thrown from the master's table. It is very much a classist term, which is unfortunately used far too often on this site. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but I'd appreciate it if people didn't use it.


Interestingly you should note that ethnic Chinese coolies in America have much more similarities with these "poor white trash" than they have with Black house slaves, since Chinese people were never formally enslaved in America, but their socio-economic conditions were still extremely miserable.

Coolies were officially still workers, not slaves.

[Queercommie Girl]

I remember watching documentaries in grade school (in earth science) about Japan's technological advances in the science of earthquake damage mitigation. I think that in the minds of many people Japan is a highly developed industrial nation and Haiti is, well, the extremely poor country that has had a humanitarian crisis for a long time.


Which actually is objectively true, but has nothing to do with race, or the fact that Blacks are less intelligent, just that certain countries are more backward in infrastructure and technology compared with others.

Many Asian countries are really poor too, even today most of China is still quite poor.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Well, the reason that countries are the way they are is always the result of a complex series of historical developments. Unfortunately some people will look at the state of a country and conclude that it's the way it is because black people live there, or Asian people live there, or white people live there, etc. It's sad that such reductive thinking exists, but at least it's usually challenged if spoken aloud (unless you happen to be on Stormfront or a KKK rally or something).

[Fawkes]

I'm referring to right-wing fascists in America.

Yeah, by using an obnoxious and alienating term.


Or are you one of those stupid idiots who deny that East Asian, especially poor East Asians like Vietnamese, can be discriminated against in the West just like Blacks and Muslims can be?
Where in this thread has anyone even remotely so much as hinted at that?

[Queercommie Girl]

Yeah, by using an obnoxious and alienating term.


What do you expect? I'm not a native-English speaker, so stop assuming that I automatically have full knowledge of the nuances of every English term.

I just made it clear that I was referring to right-wing white fascists, including obviously working class fascists, but not white workers or white people in general in any sense. So why continue to focus on this one little point so obsessively?



Where in this thread has anyone even remotely so much as hinted at that?
I didn't accuse anyone explicitly. It was a conditional question.

But then again it's not a secret that racism against Chinese and Asians generally receive less attention in the Western leftist media compared with racism against Muslims or Black people. It's a statistical fact.

[Queercommie Girl]

Yeah, by using an obnoxious and alienating term.

Where in this thread has anyone even remotely so much as hinted at that?


For interest: an article about anti-Chinese and anti-East Asian racism in the United States:

http://www.zakkeith.com/articles,blogs,forums/anti-Chinese-persecution-in-the-USA-history-timeline.htm

While the slavery of Africans and the genocide of Native Americans is a familiar topic to many, what the Chinese in America endured remains an unfamiliar subject to most. Severe acts of discrimination and racism—pogroms, massacres, mass expulsions and near-genocidal policies—were perpetrated against the Chinese, but the facts surrounding this “Chinese Chapter” in American history are all too often neglected or buried, and certainly not taught in standard school text books. Official mentions of the topic, if any, and anemic at best, tend to emphasize the small concessions granted the Chinese or the few reparative steps the USA took which as a rule came as too-little-too-late for many Chinese Americans.

[gorillafuck]

I'm referring to right-wing fascists in America. The fact that they may have some white working class support doesn't in any way make them any less ultra-reactionary.That's not what "white trash" means. At least not in the US, and I don't think the UK.

"White trash" doesn't mean a rich white bourgeoisie or a white fascist. It means a white who can barely eat and get's beaten by cops. It's an obviously classist term.


What do you expect? I'm not a native-English speaker, so stop assuming that I automatically have full knowledge of the nuances of every English term.Don't act as if it's wrong to correct you when you use a classist term. We're not being eurocentric, we're correcting you on the usage of a classist term.

[Queercommie Girl]

I dunno what it means in the UK but that's not what "white trash" means.

"White trash" doesn't mean a rich white bourgeoisie or a white fascist. It means a white who can barely eat and get's beaten by cops. It's an obviously classist term.

Don't act as if it's wrong to correct you when you use a classist term.


I find the obsession over this one little term, after I have explained what it means, too excessive.

Obviously many whites worry more about "reverse racism" against themselves than racism against non-whites.

Funny though, if physical race is ignored, then this term could quite well apply to the Chinese coolies working in 19th century America. Chinese coolies are much closer to "white trash" than Blacks or Native Americans are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Springs_massacre

The Rock Springs massacre (also known as the Rock Springs Riot) occurred on September 2, 1886, in the present-day United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) city of Rock Springs, Wyoming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Springs,_Wyoming), in Sweetwater County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweetwater_County). The riot, between Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)immigrant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant) miners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miners) and white (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people) immigrant miners, was the result of racial (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism)labor dispute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_dispute) over the Union Pacific Coal Department (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_Coal_Department)'s policy of paying Chinese miners lower wages than white miners. This policy caused the Chinese to be hired over the white miners, which further angered the white miners and contributed to the riot. Racial tensions were an even bigger factor in the massacre. When the rioting ended, at least 28 Chinese miners were dead and 15 were injured.

[Blackscare]

What do you expect? I'm not a native-English speaker, so stop assuming that I automatically have full knowledge of the nuances of every English term.
I just made it clear that I was referring to right-wing white fascists, including obviously working class fascists, but not white workers or white people in general in any sense. So why continue to focus on this one little point so obsessively?


You've been using this term around this site since you joined, you've been called out on it and you still continue. So don't play dumb, Iseul. This isn't the first time you've gone off on a tirade about 'ultra-macho etc etc etc' either. In fact I believe your words directed at me were something like "you're a chest-thumping, patriarchal homophobic hetero-supremasist white trash ape-man'.



Also:
I didn't accuse anyone explicitly. It was a conditional question.
You say stuff like this all the time, you assume something about someone you know nothing about and go on massive tirades about them based on lies and slander. Like when you called me homophobic (lol, I'm queer as a three dollar bill).

Own up to it, Iseul, because it's your favorite tactic. You did the same thing to TC. "Oh, you don't want to respond to my avalanche of angry ramblings, you must be transphobic! Well, I mean, I'm just saying that it's a possibility that I can't prove but will nonetheless repeat endlessly with a wink and a nod to imply slanderous shit about your character. See? I'm just sayin'.... :rolleyes:

[Blackscare]

Also:



To say that it's "classist" is fucking crazy considering the foremost victims of white-against-East Asian racism are certainly not rich Japanese executives, but poor Chinese and Vietnamese coolies.


What the fuck does this even mean? There is no logic here at all, you either concede the meaning of the term "white trash" is classist or you don't, but you're tying in all this unrelated claptrap that has nothing to do with you repeatedly using classist language on this forum.

[gorillafuck]

Iseul, this is ridiculous. You were using a classist term and got corrected on it. It could have ended there but you won't let it, you keep on defending your usage of classist language. That's why this discussion is going on.

[Queercommie Girl]

You've been using this term around this site since you joined, you've been called out on it and you still continue. So don't play dumb, Iseul. This isn't the first time you've gone off on a tirade about 'ultra-macho etc etc etc' either. In fact I believe your words directed at me were something like "you're a chest-thumping, patriarchal homophobic hetero-supremasist white trash ape-man'.


So why is it wrong to criticise people for being "ultra-macho"? Is being "ultra-macho" intrinsically a good thing or something?

I've used this term just once before I think, in a row with someone, also relating to the issue of race. I certainly have not been using it continuously like you seem to be implying.



Also:

You say stuff like this all the time, you assume something about someone you know nothing about and go on massive tirades about them based on lies and slander. Like when you called me homophobic (lol, I'm queer as a three dollar bill).
When did I call you homophobic?



Own up to it, Iseul, because it's your favorite tactic. You did the same thing to TC. "Oh, you don't want to respond to my avalanche of angry ramblings, you must be transphobic! Well, I mean, I'm just saying that it's a possibility that I can't prove but will nonetheless repeat endlessly with a wink and a nod to imply slanderous shit about your character. See? I'm just sayin'.... :rolleyes:
Maybe if people on this site generally become more sensitive to queer and racist issues, they I wouldn't need to mention these things so much. But then again implicit habits are always difficult to change.

In this case though, I didn't know the full nuances of the term "white trash". And frankly you have no right to simply assume that my English must be of the same standard as a native speaker. Nor does an immigrant have any kind of obligation to improve his/her English to a native's level if he/she does not wish to do so. I mean shit, what if I just don't want to "integrate" with you whites so much, huh?

Basically put, if I didn't know the full meaning of a term, then how can I be criticised for using it? Ignorance is not a crime.

[Queercommie Girl]

Also:

What the fuck does this even mean? There is no logic here at all, you either concede the meaning of the term "white trash" is classist or you don't, but you're tying in all this unrelated claptrap that has nothing to do with you repeatedly using classist language on this forum.


If a Chinese coolie uses the term "white trash" against a white worker, is that also "classist", or just "reverse-racist"?

[gorillafuck]

In this case though, I didn't know the full nuances of the term "white trash". And frankly you have no right to simply assume that my English must be of the same standard as a native speaker. Nor does an immigrant have any kind of obligation to improve his/her English to a native's level if he/she does not wish to do so. I mean shit, what if I just don't want to "integrate" with you whites so much, huh?This is the most ridiculous and worst pseudo-antiracist justification for using classist language that I've ever heard from a leftist.

Also, lol because your English is very, very good and you're clearly trying to use that as an excuse for not wanting to admit you used classist language despite never once faltering on here with your english.

[Blackscare]

In this case though, I didn't know the full nuances of the term "white trash". And frankly you have no right to simply assume that my English must be of the same standard as a native speaker. Nor does an immigrant have any kind of obligation to improve his/her English to a native's level if he/she does not wish to do so. I mean shit, what if I just don't want to "integrate" with you whites so much, huh?

As I said in my first sentence, you've been called out for this before and told that the term "white trash" is classist. Yet you've continued to use it. It's telling that you keep dancing around the issue and that you totally ignored when I said that you've been told about using the term before (instead choosing to focus on the "ultra macho" comment). :rolleyes:

I'd say it's a bit disingenuous to fall back on that sort of argument when it's been made clear to you that the word is not acceptable. It's not like we're trying to endlessly berate you, you just won't accept that the word shouldn't be used. It's also not as if you're still ignorant, it was just explained to you (again). We're not "picking on the yellow guy" (something else you said from that absurd thread where you were complaining about cursing, in which you called me a homophobe), you're just refusing to accept a very basic request from members of the community here.


As for the "ultra-macho" bit, I don't think it's a good or a bad thing, really, but I think it's a wee bit absurd to throw it around as an accusation on an internet forum when you literally know nothing personally about anyone that you're talking to.


You repeatedly have found it acceptable to make up all sorts of off-base accusations about people, please stop.

[Queercommie Girl]

This is the most ridiculous and worst pseudo-antiracist justification for using bigoted that I've ever heard from a leftist.


How so? You are criticising me for doing something which I have no full knowledge of. You could have just pointed it out neutrally while not making any criticisms, but you didn't do that. You went for the explicit criticism.

[gorillafuck]

How so? You are criticising me for doing something which I have no full knowledge of. You could have just pointed it out neutrally while not making any criticisms, but you didn't do that. You went for the explicit criticism.if you read my original post you'd see that was exactly what I was doing.

[Blackscare]

How so? You are criticising me for doing something which I have no full knowledge of. You could have just pointed it out neutrally while not making any criticisms, but you didn't do that. You went for the explicit criticism.

How dare those chest-thumping, baby eating, han-hating heteronormative white trash apes make baseless criticisms about.... things I actually said! waaaaaaaaaaaa

[Queercommie Girl]

As I said in my first sentence, you've been called out for this before and told that the term "white trash" is classist. Yet you've continued to use it. It's telling that you keep dancing around the issue and that you totally ignored when I said that you've been told about using the term before (instead choosing to focus on the "ultra macho" comment). :rolleyes:


I challenge you to show me the exact link of where this was pointed out, before this thread.



I'd say it's a bit disingenuous to fall back on that sort of argument when it's been made clear to you that the word is not acceptable. It's not like we're trying to endlessly berate you, you just won't accept that the word shouldn't be used. We're not "picking on the yellow guy" (something else you said from that absurd thread where you were complaining about cursing, in which you called me a homophobe), you're just refusing to accept a very basic request from members of the community here.


Again, show me the link where I called you a "homophobe".

I didn't say I would continue to use the term "white trash", did I? Why make such an assumption about me in the first place? My point is simply that you should stop criticising me for this little matter - non-whites face far more racism from whites than the "reverse-racism" you get from non-whites, since I wasn't responsible subjectively for any mis-use.



As for the "ultra-macho" bit, I don't think it's a good or a bad thing, really, but I think it's a wee bit absurd to throw it around as an accusation on an internet forum when you literally know nothing personally about anyone that you're talking to.


You need to read the actual thread. It's not absurd given that I never called any particular forum member here "ultra-macho", only the right-wing hawks and fascists in the US, which frankly is a fitting term for the US soldiers who conducted rape of civilians in Vietnam and Iraq.

[Queercommie Girl]

How dare those chest-thumping, baby eating, han-hating heteronormative white trash apes make baseless criticisms about.... things I actually said! waaaaaaaaaaaa

Frankly, I consider what you are saying here personally offensive.

You sound as if I'm just some kind of privileged person who is being unreasonable. Can't you even see that as a queer ethnic minority living in the West, I am objectively discriminated against in society in general already?

Perhaps you should show some empathy for a worker and try to put yourself into my shoes for once?

[Queercommie Girl]

if you read my original post you'd see that was exactly what I was doing.

And I didn't say I would continue to use the term either, I only pointed out that you are obsessing too much over this term.

[Blackscare]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/im-making-formal-t138864/index2.html?highlight=literally+cursing


Have fun reading that.

Here's me, in july 2010, pointing out that white trash is an unacceptable slur:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1808140&postcount=33


Here's the important bit from the post I was referring to in the one above:


I never said "labour camps are a fitting socialist response for those who don't see dialectical materialism my way", can't you even read your own damn language, fucking lumpenised piece of white trash?

Considering that English is very much my second language, why is it that I seem to be so much more proficient than you in it you stupid pea-brained white trash?


Seems to be that in that post, you were quite confident in your english. :lol:



You have finally shown your true face, running dog of Western imperialism. Your pathetic idea of socialism is nothing but a disguise for your unshakable belief in white male heterosexual supremacy that is continued under a proletarian system.

You actually bolded that bit yourself in your post.

Here's something else from that post:


After all, all you really care about is how to "score" with the girls and have some kind of cave-men style egoistical satisfaction about your own masculine self as you strike down the little frustrated pathetic yellow shit that is me. That is how you really feel deep down, you fucking ape. Maybe some Chinese people are correct in saying that the whites are objectively less evolved since physically they resemble other primates more. Go on, carry on with your chest-thumping, why don't you?


http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1808155&postcount=38


So, you got me, you didn't specifically say I was homophobic, just that I'm a heterosexual supremacist, which is basically the same thing. Anyway, out to go smoke a bowl, have a nice day.

[gorillafuck]

And I didn't say I would continue to use the term either, I only pointed out that you are obsessing too much over this term.No, you've defended your usage (read the posts you made immediately after being corrected) of the term and accused us of racism/eurocentrism for opposing/correcting the usage of classist language. Rather then saying "oh sorry, my bad", which would have been the mature, appropriate response and also would have prevented us from "obsessing over it" (and by "obsessing" you mean keep on responding to the things you say)

[Dimentio]

You have all de-railed this thread and should shut up.

Iseul, I respect you as a debater, but no one has attacked you here for what you are.

People have attacked you for using discriminatory language, and it is cowardly to hide behind ethnic or sexual minority status when people disagree with you of other reasons.

[Queercommie Girl]

Blackscare:

I think you are derailing this thread far too much by focussing and obsessing on this one little point.

That instance was heated argument, which was something that happens all over this board everyday. I didn't know who you were at the time, but I was making points against racism, sexism and queerphobia in a general sense, obviously in a very heated manner at the time. You didn't explain at all why "white trash" was a wrong term to use, merely asserted it, which is clearly not sufficient. But there is nothing reactionary about my general stance against discrimination there at all, even if it was exaggerated somewhat.

I would stop using the term "white trash" now that I know what it means, but I would encourage people here to focus more on racism against non-whites (or indeed even racism by more privileged white groups against less privileged and more disadvantaged ones) and less on "reverse racism" against whites. Because for one thing, emphasis on "reverse racism" is one tactic used by the far-right to deny racism against non-white peoples in the West.

And this thread has gone too much off-topic IMO.

[Queercommie Girl]

Iseul, I respect you as a debater, but no one has attacked you here for what you are.

People have attacked you for using discriminatory language, and it is cowardly to hide behind ethnic or sexual minority status when people disagree with you of other reasons.


And indeed in this thread I've made no such allegations anyhow. Only that it is unfair to criticise me so explicitly over one little term which I didn't know the full meaning of.

I never mind people disagreeing with me, but I think you will note that there is a major difference between "disagreeing with someone" and "attacking someone", and there is nothing cowardly with raising up the issue of discrimination, is there?

[Queercommie Girl]

Also, lol because your English is very, very good and you're clearly trying to use that as an excuse for not wanting to admit you used classist language despite never once faltering on here with your english.


My English is good in some ways, I won't deny that.

But the relevant point here is that since I'm not a native speaker, I really fail to understand the subtle nunances and meanings of many historical terms, slang terms, complex words etc.

The two are certainly not contradictory.

This kind of thing happens with 2nd languages. Ask other people if you don't believe me. Some Chinese students for instance can write complex essays in flowing academic language, but cannot really hold a verbal conversation with other English-speakers.

[Tim Finnegan]

Also, it's worth noting that "white trash" is an Americanism, while, if I've gleaned correctly, Iseul's English is largely of the British dialect. Lots of people here don't really understand the nuances of Americanisms like "white trash", in the same way that Americans often fail to see them in Britishisms like "chav".

[Lenina Rosenweg]

The term "white trash" is problematical. I've always taken it as a US "southernism" used by white plantation owners to refer to whites who were not plantation owners. The term has a connotation of someone who is lazy, perpetually drunk, irreponsible and lives in primitive conditions because they choose to at some level. In this sense its deeply classist. It is a roughly akin to "trailer trash" a term which is equally distasteful.

I've also taken "white trash" to mean a sort of rural lumpen element. Marx himself may have used this term in a descriptive sense in his journalistic writing on the US South. I have used it myself on occaision but I won't anymore.

Maybe this thread should be closed?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

[Wikipedia article]
Lumpenproletariat (a German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language) word literally meaning "rag proletariat") is a term first defined by Karl Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx) and Friedrich Engels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Engels) in The German Ideology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_German_Ideology) (1845) and later elaborated on in other works by Marx, and Justin Kuenstle. The term was originally coined by Marx to describe that segment of the working class that would never achieve class consciousness, and was therefore worthless in the context of revolutionary struggle.
In The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eighteenth_Brumaire_of_Louis_Napoleon) (1852), Marx refers to the lumpenproletariat as the "refuse of all classes", including "swindlers, confidence tricksters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick), brothel-keepers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimp), rag-and-bone merchants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rag_and_bone_man), beggars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging), and other flotsam of society". In
In modern Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Language),[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpenproletariat#cite_note-12) Turkish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Language),[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpenproletariat#cite_note-13) Persian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Language), Spanish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Language), Portuguese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Language), Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Language), Polish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language), Hungarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_language), Bulgarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Language), and Estonian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_language),[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpenproletariat#cite_note-14) lumpen, the shortened form of lumpenproletariat, is sometimes used to refer to lower classes of society. The meaning of the term is roughly analogous to scrounger, riff raff (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Riff_raff&action=edit&redlink=1), hoi polloi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoi_polloi), white trash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_trash), bogan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogan), or yobbo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yobbo).
[/Wikipedia article]

[gorillafuck]

I hate the way Marx talks about "lumpen". As if we should perpetuate stigma against beggars and conflate them with "brothel keepers".

[HEAD ICE]

Iseul, I think you should stop being so defensive. While I don't think you are being honest at all in your "mistaken" usage of a classist slur, there is nothing wrong with telling someone who isn't a native english speaker to not use a word that is considered demeaning. No one here attacked you, you are the one attacking and I feel it has to do with you being embarrassed for being "caught in the act."

Anyways, back to the thread. One thing I was going to expect out of the OP's post was comparisons between the situation after Katrina and Haiti to the Japanese earthquake. In fact, I saw this really really questionable article today that was draw dropping:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100079703/why-is-there-no-looting-in-japan/

I'm really curious on what the hell the author of this is trying to say

[psgchisolm]

Maybe this thread should be closed?
I just think that any post not having to do with said topic needs to be trashed and a warning to stay on topic. I think this thread has some actual potential for a good discussion if people keep on topic.

[Queercommie Girl]

Iseul, I think you should stop being so defensive.


I'd say generally it's better to be defensive than to be aggressive.



While I don't think you are being honest at all in your "mistaken" usage of a classist slur,
And why would you have such a suspicion? I was being very clear from the start that I used such a term to refer to right-wing hawks and fascists.

BTW, I think even Marx himself used this term before, not that makes it right to use in a contemporary context.



there is nothing wrong with telling someone who isn't a native english speaker to not use a word that is considered demeaning.
Not intrinsically, but it was said and done with. Is there a real need to have multiple people join in and state the same thing again and again?



No one here attacked you,
Blackscare: How dare those chest-thumping, baby eating, han-hating heteronormative white trash apes make baseless criticisms about.... things I actually said! waaaaaaaaaaaa

Sorry, but no matter what I have said, I consider this to be quite offensive, not to mention somewhat racist too. (Using "waaaaaaaaaaa" as a discriminatory way to portray the Chinese language)

It's just as bad as using the term "white trash" with explicit knowledge.



you are the one attacking and I feel it has to do with you being embarrassed for being "caught in the act."
Not really the case. I just felt the need to defend and explain myself against the constant accusations thrown against me.



Anyways, back to the thread. One thing I was going to expect out of the OP's post was comparisons between the situation after Katrina and Haiti to the Japanese earthquake. In fact, I saw this really really questionable article today that was draw dropping:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100079703/why-is-there-no-looting-in-japan/

I'm really curious on what the hell the author of this is trying to say
Well Haiti was a poor developing country, so the socio-economic status pretty much explains it.

I don't think any kind of cultural essentialist explanation would hold. While the West might see Japan as super-civilised, Japan's Asian neighbours like Korea and China see Japan as a militaristic right-wing state that still has not apologised for the WWII crimes it has committed. It's interesting that Japan can be viewed through so many different angles of interpretation.

However, perhaps part of the reason lies in the fact that Japan's version of capitalism is still very state-capitalist and not so neo-liberal capitalist like many Western countries. State-capitalism is generally speaking a more organised system. This is why also that in Europe, Germany has a more organised society than Britain, since its economy is somewhat less neoliberal.

It's true that neoliberal capitalism is prone for producing social chaos more.

Regarding that article, I found several comments particularly reactionary:

Of course they will, please don't forget whence Japan got its modern civilisation: from Europe and the U.S.A.

I bet the indigenous Europeans would be civilized.

No looting in Japan because it was never colonized or christianized by europeans. --- certainly too extreme but there is a grain of truth in this if one equates "colonisation" or "christianisation" with Western capitalism (still forgets Japan's massive crimes against other countries of course), because Western imperialism stalled native capitalist development in Asian countries like India and China.

However the follow-up is very reactionary:

Rather it was never invaded by blacks, latinos and Muslims.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

It is interesting to contrast people's opinions and the media narrative of Haiti and Japan. Japan is a First World country. The media emphasizes that Japan has an "excellent safety culture". This point was repeated over and over, despite the fact that (AFAIK) the reactors in question are 40 years old and are built in an earthquake prone region,The Japanese people are "disciplined", don't loot and obediently wait in line for hours to buy gas.They have supermarkets, cars, computers, and apartments pretty much like "we" have.

This is contrasted with Haiti, a poor rat infested hell hole. The Haitian people were irresponsible for moving en masse to Port au Prince and at some level they deserved what they got. (I know people who say this)The tragedy in that country served to highlight the heroism and dedication of our great leaders Bush, Clinton, and Obama.(Ignoring the fact that Cuba was one of the biggest aid nations in Cuba, a fact which was completely blacked out by the US media) One can only hope the spirit of free markets and hard work will someday work its magic in that benighted country.


This narrative of course leaves out the crucial historical differences. Haiti was created as a French slave colony. After its bloody war for independence against "revolutionary" France the country was forced to pay off a huge war indemnity, forcing it to remain in poverty. It was occupied by the US for 20 years with Franklin Roosevelt writing the country's constitution in 1918, as far as I remember. Clinton helped enforce neo-liberalism on that country, destroying much of the rural economy and forcing much of the population to move to the capitol. US aid, highly militarized, was sent in a way further destroying what little remained of the Haitian state.Earthquakes can't be prevented with our level of technology, but the effects of capitalism have made Haiti much more prone to its destructiveness.The devastation in Haiti was going on long before the earthquake.

Japan was not colonized by European powers and after the Meiji Restoration was able to pursue independent capitalist development, although one with strong feudalistic elements. Japan pursued the Western pathway to success. Its mistake was doing so a century or so later than its models.

Japanese pop culture has influence in the US while that of Haiti for the most part doesn't. Japan has been fully integrated as a leader in global capitalism, despite the economic decline of recent decades, and has become an "honorary white" country.

Neo-liberalism has been imposed on both countries. Japan, once the land of gureenteed lifetime employment, now has become a nation of temp workers like the US and the US forced Japan to sign the Plaza Accord in the 90s.The extent of the onslaught of course was vastly worse in Haiti, destroying much that society's cohesiveness.

There is a strong element of racism and classism in the differing portrayals of the two disasters.

[psgchisolm]

I don't think any kind of cultural essentialist explanation would hold. While the West might see Japan as super-civilised, Japan's Asian neighbours like Korea and China see Japan as a militaristic right-wing state that still has not apologised for the WWII crimes it has committed. It's interesting that Japan can be viewed through so many different angles of interpretation.
Assuming you mean North Korea and China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Army
Comparing all three military's based on size Japan is hardly militaristic.
NK:1,106,000 Ranked 4th
PLA: 2,285,000 Ranked 1st
JAP:239,430 Ranked 24th
Right-wing state? Definitely. It is interesting, until you see from both sides then the bias becomes evident. Each country has it's own agenda, depending on how they classify a nation it can be deemed a threat or an ally.


And why would you have such a suspicion? I was being very clear from the start that I used such a term to refer to right-wing hawks and fascists.
We call them Tea-baggers or the Tea-Party.

Blackscare: How dare those chest-thumping, baby eating, han-hating heteronormative white trash apes make baseless criticisms about.... things I actually said! waaaaaaaaaaaa

Sorry, but no matter what I have said, I consider this to be quite offensive, not to mention somewhat racist too. (Using "waaaaaaaaaaa" as a discriminatory way to portray the Chinese language)

It's just as bad as using the term "white trash" with explicit knowledge.
He wasn't making fun of your language he was trying to call you a cry baby. Still bad imo.

[Queercommie Girl]

Assuming you mean North Korea and China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Army
Comparing all three military's based on size Japan is hardly militaristic.
NK:1,106,000 Ranked 4th
PLA: 2,285,000 Ranked 1st
JAP:239,430 Ranked 24th
Right-wing state? Definitely. It is interesting, until you see from both sides then the bias becomes evident. Each country has it's own agenda, depending on how they classify a nation it can be deemed a threat or an ally.


True to some extent. I certainly don't consider China today to be genuinely socialist. NK still has a planned economy but is very deformed.

However, on the international level Japan being a wealthy developed country that is allied with US imperialism is clearly more reactionary. Though China today is quite oppressive for its workers and peasants, I certainly would oppose any US/Japanese intervention in China.

Also, SK can also be quite anti-Japanese, purely on nationalist rather than any ideological grounds.



We call them Tea-baggers or the Tea-Party.


Ok. I'd say the Tea-Party still isn't as bad as some of the more hardcore right-wingers though, like the KKK and neo-Nazi groups. The latter tend to be more explicitly violent.



He wasn't making fun of your language he was trying to call you a cry baby. Still bad imo.

Are you sure about that? It really sounded like that. Obviously I take discriminatory remarks (racist/sexist/queerphobic) much more seriously than purely personal ones.

[Dimentio]

And indeed in this thread I've made no such allegations anyhow. Only that it is unfair to criticise me so explicitly over one little term which I didn't know the full meaning of.

I never mind people disagreeing with me, but I think you will note that there is a major difference between "disagreeing with someone" and "attacking someone", and there is nothing cowardly with raising up the issue of discrimination, is there?

Yes there is. When you haven't been discriminated against. People have told you to not use the term WT before, and yet you persist.

The term WT is both classist against poor whites and racist against other communities. White Middle Class Americans often use that term derogatorily about whites who are poor, implying that Blacks and Latinos somehow are lesser human beings who "cannot be blamed" for their condition due to their dark skin, while whites should "be better".

[Queercommie Girl]

Yes there is. When you haven't been discriminated against. People have told you to not use the term WT before, and yet you persist.


I meant I'm raising up the issue of discrimination in general, not that I've been discriminated particularly in this context. (I've stated this already)

No-one explained to me before (before this thread) what such a term meant.

I feel people are over-reacting to this point. Marx supposedly used this term too, not saying it's right to use the term in the contemporary context anymore just because Marx used it, but you could see why without prior full understanding of the implications of the term, I could be applying it too.

[Queercommie Girl]

The term WT is both classist against poor whites and racist against other communities. White Middle Class Americans often use that term derogatorily about whites who are poor, implying that Blacks and Latinos somehow are lesser human beings who "cannot be blamed" for their condition due to their dark skin, while whites should "be better".


That's an interesting point, but you should include East Asians/Asians in the "non-white" category too. Sometimes I do feel racism against East Asians tends to get somewhat neglected.

There is a whole history of immigrant Chinese coolies in America, but people generally know less about it than say the history of racism against blacks and native Americans.

I mean consider this: the major genocides against the native Americans, and Black civil rights movement etc, are well-known in many American households. Much fewer people know about the Chinese Exclusion Act or the Rock springs Massacre against immigrant Chinese miners.

[psgchisolm]

True to some extent. I certainly don't consider China today to be genuinely socialist. NK still has a planned economy but is very deformed.

However, on the international level Japan being a wealthy developed country that is allied with US imperialism is clearly more reactionary. Though China today is quite oppressive for its workers and peasants, I certainly would oppose any US/Japanese intervention in China.

Also, SK can also be quite anti-Japanese, purely on nationalist rather than any ideological grounds.
I can agree with this.

Ok. I'd say the Tea-Party still isn't as bad as some of the more hardcore right-wingers though, like the KKK and neo-Nazi groups. The latter tend to be more explicitly violent.
True but the Tea party is coming out more with supporting violence. They protested a Muslim meeting and verbally threatening recently. Not to mention they had comments on attacking democrats and "fighting to take the country back".

Are you sure about that? It really sounded like that. Obviously I take discriminatory remarks (racist/sexist/queerphobic) much more seriously than purely personal ones.
Yeah he's just mocking you.

I meant I'm raising up the issue of discrimination in general, not that I've been discriminated particularly in this context. (I've stated this already)

No-one explained to me before (before this thread) what such a term meant.

I feel people are over-reacting to this point. Marx supposedly used this term too, not saying it's right to use the term in the contemporary context anymore just because Marx used it, but you could see why without prior full understanding of the implications of the term, I could be applying it too.
They're over-reacting because you've been told it can be used in a derogatory way and have asked that you not use it. If you forgot because it's been a good while from what I saw of the dates in that post then that's ok. What they're talking about is how you defended using the term. You were trying to defend why you used it and how you were ignorant to that it's derogatory to poor whites. The proper response would have been to apologize and try to refrain from using it again.

[Queercommie Girl]

True but the Tea party is coming out more with supporting violence. They protested a Muslim meeting and verbally threatening recently. Not to mention they had comments on attacking democrats and "fighting to take the country back".


I can see the Tea Party shifting even more to the right.



Yeah he's just mocking you.


Frankly I don't think one person can ever know how another thinks so it's difficult to tell what he really meant.

But as you correctly said, it was still quite bad even if it's a purely personal remark.



They're over-reacting because you've been told it can be used in a derogatory way and have asked that you not use it.


Not "they", since Blackscare was the only one who mentioned this in the heated exchange between us from quite long ago. And he never explained why the term "white trash" is not so good in the US/contemporary context either.

Without prior explanation, there is no reason why I must assume that they are right anyway. As I said, in his day (obviously a different cultural context), even Marx himself occasionally used this term.

But you are right in that they are certainly over-reacting.



If you forgot because it's been a good while from what I saw of the dates in that post then that's ok.


It was from a long while ago, and it's true that I don't really remember it that well, but that's not the point.



What they're talking about is how you defended using the term. You were trying to defend why you used it and how you were ignorant to that it's derogatory to poor whites. The proper response would have been to apologize and try to refrain from using it again.


The general idea is that one cannot be punished due to ignorance. Things need to be put into their context. Otherwise one might as well write a long diatribe against Marx himself for using this term.

I don't think there is a need for me to apologise, even though I won't use the term again, especially given how harshly some people have criticised me over this relatively minor point. Do you think people will react just as strongly if it was a minor racist slur against the Chinese, or an instance of queerphobia? Probably not.

[psgchisolm]

Not "they", since Blackscare was the only one who mentioned this in the heated exchange between us from quite long ago. And he never explained why the term "white trash" is not so good in the US/contemporary context either.

Without prior explanation, there is no reason why I must assume that they are right anyway. As I said, in his day (obviously a different cultural context), even Marx himself occasionally used this term.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_trash

The term is usually a slur He and a number of others also said that it's classist.
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2046869&postcount=4
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2047400&postcount=13
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2047552&postcount=35

Adi also mentioned it in the heated exchange from then. http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1808139&postcount=32

Anyway you must assume they are right is because. They live in the US.
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2047537&postcount=34
You live in the UK It's an Americanism, they LIVE in America. You openly admit your English isn't perfect and that you don't understand the full uses of words but yet you constantly defend that THEY aren't right because Marx used it in his day. Which you OPENLY admit was a different cultural context. They LIVE in AMERICA. They would know more about an American slur than you OR Marx. Marx was GERMAN. How would Marx know about an Americanism and how it's used today. HE'S DEAD. You HAVE to accept what they say when they tell you it's not ok to use it.


But you are right in that they are certainly over-reacting.
And you are under-reacting. Like zeekloid said.

Saying "oh sorry, my bad", which would have been the mature, appropriate response and also would have prevented us from "obsessing over it"


I don't think there is a need for me to apologise, even though I won't use the term again, especially given how harshly some people have criticised me over this relatively minor point. Do you think people will react just as strongly if it was a minor racist slur against the Chinese, or an instance of queerphobia? Probably not. Yeah they would. Whenever people say something racist or homophobic people immediately call them out on it. They almost ALWAYS get restricted or banned. A guy was recently restricted for trans-phobic comments.



The general idea is that one cannot be punished due to ignorance. Things need to be put into their context. Otherwise one might as well write a long diatribe against Marx himself for using this term.
Rule of thumb. If you don't know what a word means. DON'T USE IT.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I imagine you could think of "White Trash" as being equivalent to "Wetback" or a similar pejorative term, in that it is an attempt to unify certain racial and class assumptions about the person under a single banner. People considered "White Trash" are as much a victim of their conditions just as much as any group (rural parts of america, with little opportunity and little education).

[Os Cangaceiros]

I find the obsession over this one little term, after I have explained what it means, too excessive.

Obviously many whites worry more about "reverse racism" against themselves than racism against non-whites.

*sigh*

Dude, don't even go there. I've already stated that "racism" doesn't exist against white people, even before this thread started (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2042803&postcount=8). If I thought that your use of the term "white trash" was racist, I would've called you on it using that phrase. But I didn't. Because it's classist, not racist.

I mean, damn dude, I didn't ask you to self-flagellate over your use of the term, or even apologize...just some reflection on it without knee-jerk defensiveness would be nice. On a personal note, I grew up around the people who many supposedly "open-minded" liberals refer to white trash. One of my best friends lived in a filthy delipitated trailer with about 15 dogs and a whole clan of siblings, who's dad was addicted to prescription painkillers and barely scrapped out a living as a mechanic. Dogs would shit in their trailer and they'd just throw it into the fireplace...my friend needed help from the state just to feed himself in high school, and he's white as the driven snow.

The bottom line is that the lives of these people suck, and are on par with some of the worst, most grinding poverty that you'll find anywhere in America. And yet they're routinely mocked by people like (in reference to Sarah Palin and the political environment that she originally grew out of) Bill Mayer and other liberals...I remember being revolted at some of the commentary on liberal sites in the initial days following McCain's choosing of Palin as his running mate, including mocking the Wasilla library because of it's limited funding and making fun of them ignorant hillbillies and the fact that they still live a substance lifestyle that includes hunting. Unfortunately this same sort of thinking seems to have pervaded communists, as well...you're not the first person I've seen around here who have spoken ill of "white trash" and "rednecks", those supposedly privileged whites who go around blasting country music and shooting at immigrants from their pick-up trucks on the weekends.

Rant over.

[Queercommie Girl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_trash
He and a number of others also said that it's classist.
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2046869&postcount=4
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2047400&postcount=13
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2047552&postcount=35


You are missing the point. I was talking about the fact that before this thread no-one explained the term to me, not in this thread.



Adi also mentioned it in the heated exchange from then. http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1808139&postcount=32


Shankara was banned a long time ago for homophobia and transphobia. Virtually no-one here had a positive opinion of him. I wouldn't have listened to him anyway at the time.



Anyway you must assume they are right is because. They live in the US.
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2047537&postcount=34
You live in the UK It's an Americanism, they LIVE in America. You openly admit your English isn't perfect and that you don't understand the full uses of words but yet you constantly defend that THEY aren't right because Marx used it in his day. Which you OPENLY admit was a different cultural context. They LIVE in AMERICA. They would know more about an American slur than you OR Marx. Marx was GERMAN. How would Marx know about an Americanism and how it's used today. HE'S DEAD. You HAVE to accept what they say when they tell you it's not ok to use it.

And you are under-reacting. Like zeekloid said.

Rule of thumb. If you don't know what a word means. DON'T USE IT.


I'm not saying I will continue to use this term, now that I know what it means in the US context. In fact I never used this term ever again since Explosive Situation mentioned what the term means to me at the very beginning of this thread. What I'm saying is that some people are not taking into account differences in cultural context when criticising me.

[Queercommie Girl]

I imagine you could think of "White Trash" as being equivalent to "Wetback" or a similar pejorative term, in that it is an attempt to unify certain racial and class assumptions about the person under a single banner. People considered "White Trash" are as much a victim of their conditions just as much as any group (rural parts of america, with little opportunity and little education).

No, I wasn't using this term in this context at all. I just used it as a generic negative term to refer to right-wing hawks/fascists who are white. I didn't imply any class connotations what-so-ever.

[Queercommie Girl]

I've already stated that "racism" doesn't exist against white people, even before this thread started (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2042803&postcount=8). If I thought that your use of the term "white trash" was racist, I would've called you on it using that phrase. But I didn't. Because it's classist, not racist.


You could argue that "reverse racism" against whites don't exist, but racism against certain whites does exist, just that they always come from other white people. English people to this day discriminate against Irish and Welsh people. (Here on RevLeft the ex-admin TAT once joked about Welsh people having sex with sheep) Often immigrants from Eastern Europe are discriminated against in the UK.



I mean, damn dude, I didn't ask you to self-flagellate over your use of the term, or even apologize...just some reflection on it without knee-jerk defensiveness would be nice. On a personal note, I grew up around the people who many supposedly "open-minded" liberals refer to white trash. One of my best friends lived in a filthy delipitated trailer with about 15 dogs and a whole clan of siblings, who's dad was addicted to prescription painkillers and barely scrapped out a living as a mechanic. Dogs would shit in their trailer and they'd just throw it into the fireplace...my friend needed help from the state just to feed himself in high school, and he's white as the driven snow.


I did reflect, and I never used the term again ever since you told me what it meant in the US context in this thread.

My point was that these extremely poor white people have a lot in common with Chinese coolies working in the US in the past from a socio-economic perspective, apart from racial differences.



The bottom line is that the lives of these people suck, and are on par with some of the worst, most grinding poverty that you'll find anywhere in America. And yet they're routinely mocked by people like (in reference to Sarah Palin and the political environment that she originally grew out of) Bill Mayer and other liberals...I remember being revolted at some of the commentary on liberal sites in the initial days following McCain's choosing of Palin as his running mate, including mocking the Wasilla library because of it's limited funding and making fun of them ignorant hillbillies and the fact that they still live a substance lifestyle that includes hunting. Unfortunately this same sort of thinking seems to have pervaded communists, as well...you're not the first person I've seen around here who have spoken ill of "white trash" and "rednecks", those supposedly privileged whites who go around blasting country music and shooting at immigrants from their pick-up trucks on the weekends.


Some of these people do tend to have racist, reactionary and anti-immigrant views, which is largely due to their relative lack of knowledge of the world around them, and the brainwashing they have received from the mainstream and reactionary bourgeois media.

[Queercommie Girl]

Basically Explosive Situation, what I'm trying to say is that if you don't focus on "race" so much, Chinese coolies are basically also "white trash", or "Chinese trash" if you like.

It's only the reactionary propaganda of the capitalist ruling class that separates "white trash" and "Chinese trash", rather than have them ally together and destroy the bourgeois aristocracy.

[Shokaract]

Comparing all three military's based on size Japan is hardly militaristic.

Nevertheless, Japan does have a pretty large military for a country whose constitution prohibits maintaining “land, sea, and air forces.” I wouldn't go so far as to say that Japan is currently militaristic, but it should be noted that its military expenditure in 2009 was double that of South Korea and that up until the last five years Japan had a higher military budget than that of China.

[bailey_187]

Basically Explosive Situation, what I'm trying to say is that if you don't focus on "race" so much, Chinese coolies are basically also "white trash", or "Chinese trash" if you like.

It's only the reactionary propaganda of the capitalist ruling class that separates "white trash" and "Chinese trash", rather than have them ally together and destroy the bourgeois aristocracy.

what does this have to do with pointing out the fact that white trash is an offensive term and u shouldnt use it?

[Queercommie Girl]

what does this have to do with pointing out the fact that white trash is an offensive term and u shouldnt use it?


I won't use it if people don't like it, this is just my reflection on this issue.

But frankly whether or not a term is offensive is always relative, and never absolute or intrinsic. "Queer" used to be an offensive term too. It's potentially possible to turn the term "white trash" around. Maybe it's not so bad to be seen as "trash" in the eyes of the capitalists, huh? Maybe if the capitalists see you as trash, then actually it's a sign of honour from a working class perspective?

I am proud to be "Chinese trash"!!! LOL

Long Live the "trash" of all ethnicities!