Interesting article+photos, re: DPRK

[Prairie Fire]

Recent article from the CPC-ML Daily news site TML Daily, showing some recent photographs from the DPRK (aka 'North Korea'), and some interesting facts.

http://www.cpcml.ca/Tmld2011/D41037.htm

[Lenina Rosenweg]

The photos are interesting. The text is somewhat like the old China Daily and almost as dry. There was nothing about working class solidarity, no solidarizing with struggles in North America.Its obvious the US and the new conservative ROK gov't has been trying to sabotage relations between the two Koreas.

What counts is who has control over the means of production. Despite the "Songon" ideal of the military being a "holistic" outgrowth of the working class, I don't think that class calls the shots.The DPRK should be defended from imperialism but there should be no illusions over the nature of the state.

BTW the leader of the "North American Juche Education Foundation" is one Jonathan Paul Cupp,who, besides being a homophobic white supremacist , misogynist nut case, is also, well....

http://redbannerofsongun.org/atlastdprktrip.html

[Red_Struggle]

The photos are interesting. The text is somewhat like the old China Daily and almost as dry. There was nothing about working class solidarity, no solidarizing with struggles in North America.Its obvious the US and the new conservative ROK gov't has been trying to sabotage relations between the two Koreas.

What counts is who has control over the means of production. Despite the "Songon" ideal of the military being a "holistic" outgrowth of the working class, I don't think that class calls the shots.The DPRK should be defended from imperialism but there should be no illusions over the nature of the state.

BTW the leader of the "North American Juche Education Foundation" is one Jonathan Paul Cupp,who, besides being a homophobic white supremacist , misogynist nut case, is also, well....

http://redbannerofsongun.org/atlastdprktrip.html

I don't view the DPRK as socialist, but it's clear that it is much more progressive and scientific than the South. That's not to say it's paradise by any stretch, but the fact that their economy seems to be picking up steam should have anti-imperialists smiling.

As for john Paul Cupp, yeah, the guy's off his nut. I don't think anyone takes him seriously. Considering that's he's homophobic, I wander what he has to say about the DPRK's official stance towards homosexuality, which is more of a "hands off" policy than anything.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Their economy is picking up steam? Is there a source for that? I'm not so sure if that's the case. Don't they need food aid again this year from the "hated" imperialists? They clearly have a strange interpretation of the Autarky recommended by Kim Il Sung :P

Lenina-that link is the weirdest thing I've ever read, it reads like a Fundamentalist Christian's description of their first visit to Jerusalem.

[psgchisolm]

Their economy is picking up steam? Is there a source for that? I'm not so sure if that's the case. Don't they need food aid again this year from the "hated" imperialists? They clearly have a strange interpretation of the Autarky recommended by Kim Il Sung :P

Lenina-that link is the weirdest thing I've ever read, it reads like a Fundamentalist Christian's description of their first visit to Jerusalem.
I think you're looking for the word bias. I am willing to admit the DPRK isn't a complete failure, but i'd like to see more pictures of the rest of the DPRK. Ones that don't highlight successes or failures. Just average pictures on average places.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

Even if these pictures aren't part of DPRK is best Korea bias, any kind of progress will be short lived if the RoK has something to say about it...

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/03/201134131836876620.html

Sad thing is, the writer of the article seems to think it's somewhat justifiable to starve an entire country into submission.

[Chimurenga.]

BTW the leader of the "North American Juche Education Foundation" is one Jonathan Paul Cupp,who, besides being a homophobic white supremacist , misogynist nut case, is also, well....

If he is a "white supremacist" then why would he be all giddy when it comes to the DPRK? That makes no sense.

I'm also not sure what that organization has to do with this article.

[Crux]

If he is a "white supremacist" then why would he be all giddy when it comes to the DPRK? That makes no sense.
The common blood and nation mythos? And yeah don't ask me how ultranationalists ever get along with their peers from other countries.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

For whatever reason the DPRK has gotten a favorable write up on WS blogs and sites as the perfect "national socialist" state.The combination of a what's regarded as a strong state and a highly nationalist ethos appeals to that crowd.

[Brother No. 1]

The common blood and nation mythos? And yeah don't ask me how ultranationalists ever get along with their peers from other countries.

Must be why all us Communists and Anarchist tendencies get along oh so divinely.

[The Red Next Door]

For whatever reason the DPRK has gotten a favorable write up on WS blogs and sites as the perfect "national socialist" state.The combination of a what's regarded as a strong state and a highly nationalist ethos appeals to that crowd.

Yeah, you need to buy some toliet paper or the person who you let wipe their ass with your brain, because boy it stink of shit.

[Chimurenga.]

The common blood and nation mythos? And yeah don't ask me how ultranationalists ever get along with their peers from other countries.


For whatever reason the DPRK has gotten a favorable write up on WS blogs and sites as the perfect "national socialist" state.The combination of a what's regarded as a strong state and a highly nationalist ethos appeals to that crowd.

Neither post answers my question. What makes the DPRK an exception to White supremacist fascism? Don't speculate into some bullshit that you both know absolutely nothing about. Don't conveniently leave out the ultra-racist aspect of White supremacy to appeal to your own prejudices that you both reserve. Answer the question.

The originally quoted dumbass post had absolutely nothing to do with this article and was a further exhibition that Lenina has no idea of what she is talking about.

[Prairie Fire]

The text is somewhat like the old China Daily and almost as dry.


Most likely a re-print from Korean sources (possibly some editing).



There was nothing about working class solidarity, no solidarizing with struggles in North America.


Maybe not in this particular text, but the DPRK has vocalized these sentiments on numerous other occasions.



What counts is who has control over the means of production. Despite the "Songon" ideal of the military being a "holistic" outgrowth of the working class, I don't think that class calls the shots.The DPRK should be defended from imperialism but there should be no illusions over the nature of the state.



Indeed. Still, the issue of the DPRK is a little bit more than just the same anti-imperialist sentiments (ie. right to self determination) that we accord to Iran, Belarus,Zimbabwe, etc.

The DPRK has the closest thing to socialized property relations on the planet Earth today (even more so than Cuba). While imperfect and itself tainted with some of the mechanisms symptomatic to capitalist production, the gains of the Korean revolution should be defended and encouraged as well, to the greatest possible extent.



BTW the leader of the "North American Juche Education Foundation" is one Jonathan Paul Cupp,who, besides being a homophobic white supremacist , misogynist nut case, is also, well....



Yes, I'm aware. I've had long drawn out arguments with "comrade" Cupp in the past.

That said, one would point out Cupp specifically because he is a pecularity among those that support the DPRK. Even the most die-hard advocates of the Juche Idea/Songun worldwide are generally not characterized by ethnic supremacisism and imperial chauvenism, oppression of homosexuals, etc.



For whatever reason the DPRK has gotten a favorable write up on WS blogs and sites as the perfect "national socialist" state.The combination of a what's regarded as a strong state and a highly nationalist ethos appeals to that crowd.


White supremacy generally goes hand in hand with foaming at the mouth anti-communism though. I could see ultranationalist organizations among oppressed ethnic and national groups looking favorably upon the DPRK, but to the European-American white nationalist types, the DPRK is an example of dreaded bolshevism.

As I said, John Paul Cupp is an unusual anomally in that most white nationalists can not abide or reconcile (quasi) socialist socio-economic organization with their idealized ethnically homogenous nation state.

[StalinFanboy]

Yeah, you need to buy some toliet paper or the person who you let wipe their ass with your brain, because boy it stink of shit.
It's actually quite hard to argue that the DPRK isn't an authoritarian state and that ultra-nationalism doesn't play a huge part in their culture.

[StalinFanboy]

Neither post answers my question. What makes the DPRK an exception to White supremacist fascism? Don't speculate into some bullshit that you both know absolutely nothing about. Don't conveniently leave out the ultra-racist aspect of White supremacy to appeal to your own prejudices that you both reserve. Answer the question.
First off, you're being a dick.

Second, I imagine the reason why some WP people are into the DPRK is probably the same reason why the leader of the American Nazi Party was invited to speak at a Nation of Islam conference. It's really not hard to get your head wrapped around ultra-nationalists liking other ultra-nationalists, unless you think that their white supremacy comes from something other than nationalism.

[The Red Next Door]

First off, you're being a dick.

Second, I imagine the reason why some WP people are into the DPRK is probably the same reason why the leader of the American Nazi Party was invited to speak at a Nation of Islam conference. It's really not hard to get your head wrapped around ultra-nationalists liking other ultra-nationalists, unless you think that their white supremacy comes from something other than nationalism.

DPRK is not ultra nationalist, where did you get this from and what this have to do with the subject?

[Os Cangaceiros]

Neither post answers my question. What makes the DPRK an exception to White supremacist fascism? Don't speculate into some bullshit that you both know absolutely nothing about. Don't conveniently leave out the ultra-racist aspect of White supremacy to appeal to your own prejudices that you both reserve. Answer the question.

The originally quoted dumbass post had absolutely nothing to do with this article and was a further exhibition that Lenina has no idea of what she is talking about.

White nationalists admire the fact that North Korea is 100% ethnically Korean. They also (more commonly) admire the Japanese for similar reasons.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

Anyway, heres a documentary about som acting students, made by Al-Jazera.
I dont think that theire lifes are representable for the average life in the DPRK but at least its interesting watching.

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/101east/2011/02/2011217113256267999.html

[Chimurenga.]

White nationalists admire the fact that North Korea is 100% ethnically Korean. They also (more commonly) admire the Japanese for similar reasons.

North Korea isn't 100% Korean though. There are Chinese, Japanese, and Vietnamese living there. Not to mention a few Americans.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

This article is indeed interesting, if you are a Jucheist.

I, however, am a Socialist, so this is about as interesting to me as the nuances of the Daily Mail editorial stance or who the next Undersecretary of State for Agriculture will be.

I really don't get why people masturbate over the goings on in a country that, by all means, is not Socialist, is not revolutionary and doesn't even claim to be one of us. Defend it against anti-imperialism when the US rears it's head - I can understand that even if I don't agree with it, but why glorify what is really not a very good economic system?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I still think it's sad that a so-called Autarkic society needs food aid from the Imperialists to feed their people while their government spends money on nuclear arms and the world's fourth largest armed forces.

[Rafiq]

Photos of the dprk... :glare:

I've been seeing many photos of so-called 'Socialist' nations, ranging from the cold war to now, and it puzzles me why people here have no doubts, or suspision at all that some of these could have been forged, set up, or edited.

Say, pretend the FBI wants to show the world American life, do you think it's fair for them only to focus on the rich parts of America, like, beverly hills, ect.?

Come on. I thought we were smarter than this.

[PhoenixAsh]

DPRK is not ultra nationalist, where did you get this from and what this have to do with the subject?

Really? THe whole Juche doctrine is build around the set up of orean national pride and idetity. Thats the basis of juche. Its the not part which is really absent from juche doctrine.

[Os Cangaceiros]

North Korea isn't 100% Korean though. There are Chinese, Japanese, and Vietnamese living there. Not to mention a few Americans.

The non-Korean and defector population is incredibly negligable, though. It may not be entirely accurate to say that 100% of people in Korea are Korean, but it's pretty close.

But like I said: that's why white nationalists admire the DPRK.

[Prairie Fire]

I still think it's sad that a so-called Autarkic society needs food aid from the Imperialists to feed their people while their government spends money on nuclear arms and the world's fourth largest armed forces.


"... Never under any circumstances should the objective empirical conditions present in a political state be taken into consideration when analyzing their domestic and foreign policies. Any truly revolutionary state worth their salt conforms to the specific ideals of any given beholder, regardless of whether or not carrying out said ideals is possible or practical given the circumstances."

- "An introduction to the practice of idealist nonsense under nominally radical-left pretences", Eve Nye, p. 24, Baseless idealism press, 1988 (tenth hardcover edition).

[Prairie Fire]

This article is indeed interesting, if you are a Jucheist.

I, however, am a Socialist, so this is about as interesting to me as the nuances of the Daily Mail editorial stance or who the next Undersecretary of State for Agriculture will be.

I really don't get why people masturbate over the goings on in a country that, by all means, is not Socialist, is not revolutionary and doesn't even claim to be one of us. Defend it against anti-imperialism when the US rears it's head - I can understand that even if I don't agree with it, but why glorify what is really not a very good economic system?


Judging by your name (ie. "El Granma"), I'm going to go right ahead and say that you are a pretty staunch supporter/promoter of Cuba, yes?

See, this is what always perplexes me, in regards to the DPRK, because those who venemously gnash their teeth at the DPRK usually take a softer/favourable approach to Cuba.

You say the DPRK isn't socialist; well, neither is Cuba.

Believe me, I have much higher (but still realistic,) expectations of any country claiming the mantle of "Socialist" than most, but just in terms of economic, political and social analysis, the DPRK is significantly closer to socialist property relations in all.

Certainly there is tell-tale signs of capitalist production present in the DPRK, which I do not deny ( as most states that historically took the mantle of "socialist" did), but I have yet to hear of any of Agricultural land being divided into private plots yet in the DPRK.

How many public sector workers have been layed off in the DPRK recently?

Despite facing a much more crippling and thorough economic embargo than Cuba, the DPRK has not slashed public services, nor have they conceded ground to the private sector in any way that can come close to the Cubans.

Just comparing the property relations, there is no contest. While falling short of the goal of complete socialist development, the DPRK still is still head and shoulders above the Cubans.

At the end of the day though, Che Guevera is on T-shirts, and Kim Jong Il is on the cover of TIME magazine. Really, this is usually the root of the bias.
-

[robbo203]

Judging by your name (ie. "El Granma"), I'm going to go right ahead and say that you are a pretty staunch supporter/promoter of Cuba, yes?

See, this is what always perplexes me, in regards to the DPRK, because those who venemously gnash their teeth at the DPRK usually take a softer/favourable approach to Cuba.

You say the DPRK isn't socialist; well, neither is Cuba.

Believe me, I have much higher (but still realistic,) expectations of any country claiming the mantle of "Socialist" than most, but just in terms of economic, political and social analysis, the DPRK is significantly closer to socialist property relations in all.

Certainly there is tell-tale signs of capitalist production present in the DPRK, which I do not deny ( as most states that historically took the mantle of "socialist" did), but I have yet to hear of any of Agricultural land being divided into private plots yet in the DPRK.

How many public sector workers have been layed off in the DPRK recently?

Despite facing a much more crippling and thorough economic embargo than Cuba, the DPRK has not slashed public services, nor have they conceded ground to the private sector in any way that can come close to the Cubans.

Just comparing the property relations, there is no contest. While falling short of the goal of complete socialist development, the DPRK still is still head and shoulders above the Cubans.

At the end of the day though, Che Guevera is on T-shirts, and Kim Jong Il is on the cover of TIME magazine. Really, this is usually the root of the bias.
-


Oh please - the DPRK is no "closer" to socialism than is Upper Volta or the United States. State ownership of the means of production has got nothing to do with socialism. Absolutely nothing. As old Fred Engels rightly pointed out about the modern state (whatever its form) : "The more it proceeds to the taking over of the productive forces, the more does it actually become the national capitalist, the more citizens does it exploit. The workers remain wage workers - proletarians. The capitalist relationship is not done away with. It is rather brought to a head
(Socialism Utopian and Scientific)

The DPRK is just another fairly impoverished developing capitalist state, heavily dependent on Chinese imperialism for investment funds, and quite willing to pimp out its workforce in the so called enterprise zones to foreign investors. It is a viciously authoritarian anti working class regime that does not even have the elementary basic political rights that obtain elsewhere. Its about time what is happening in North Africa happened in the DPRK too and the workers got rid of the dictatorship there as well.