Is my generation incapable of understanding a message?

[TheWickedTies]

I just really want to know why my generation is so tone deaf, and I understand that the masses have always been tone deaf. From Patti Page's "Doggy in the Window", to Justin Beiber's "Baby", the mass seems to enjoy a tune to dance to rather than a social message. I feel as if even 10 years after a band like RATM, that the young generation wouldn't embrace them. I mean, I went to a JB video to look at the comments, and they were like THIS IS REAL MUSIC, and it goes to a band like Three Day's Grace, and I'm sitting there wanting to get some sleeping pills and Grey Goose for whatever dumbass posted that. I understand that some people can get a social message in my generation, but I feel like it's an ever shrinking minority. Musicians are supposed to connect being talented with an instrument, and being creative. IIf you're technical as shit but can't come up with one badass riff, then you suck, and if you're creative as shit, but when pick hits string, you turn into Muhammed Ali (present form), then you're terrible. I just want to know why people my age (16,17,18) still value something to dance to over a good song that accurately conveys a social issue that you can still rock the fuck out to.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

First and foremost....the problem doesn't stem from age or anything so reactionary.The problem originates from people valuing more crap to make them complacent,than they do in things that enlighten them.

I think this develps from materialism in the sense that just as buying products gives consumers a false sense of accomplishment,listening to crappy music makes them feel more intelligent,or with the "in crowd."

All in all this is just another problem of the corporate media who promote generic music,so as long as they stand to make a buck.Get rid of the giant corporations,and chances are you will see a new shift in musical trends (assuming such things even exist in such a society).

[Robespierre Richard]

They like dancing more than 'rocking out.' Commercial music production is ruled by sales and airplay rather than "quality." Listen to Arcade Fire or something I guess. They're indie.

[9]

I think that anyone who listens to Rage Against The Machine is tone deaf, personally.

[9]

I think this develps from materialism in the sense that just as buying products gives consumers a false sense of accomplishment,listening to crappy music makes them feel more intelligent,or with the "in crowd."
I think probably this applies to people like you and the OP far more than anyone you're criticizing. Who cares what music someone likes? I mean, I'm pretty opinionated when it comes to music, but I don't delude myself into thinking it says anything about how "enlightened" I am. People have different tastes. Honestly, get over yourselves.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I think probably this applies to people like you and the OP far more than anyone you're criticizing. Who cares what music someone likes? I mean, I'm pretty opinionated when it comes to music, but I don't delude myself into thinking it says anything about how "enlightened" I am. People have different tastes. Honestly, get over yourselves.

Well,I know what "good" music is,and it certainly isn't music created by artists who are perpetuated by large corporations with millions of dollars of advertaising backing up their clients;nor is it good when the artist/artists in question only have their popularity because they siphon off their success from a fan base which is more interested in the physical/superficial aspects of the performer than the actual meaning of the song.

Honestly,I've heard good music before,and such songs don't repeat the same word every four seconds,or blab on and on about romances/sex/that girl or guy dumped me.We have heard that message a trillion times before and it's not original in the slightest,and chances are,if it's not original than it won't be as good as something that is completely new,or barely touched upon.

[9]

Well,I know what "good" music is

No, you have an opinion about what "good" music is.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

No, you have an opinion about what "good" music is.

Yeah,that's what I said;what I now is my opinion.

[black magick hustla]

in b4 the adorno jerkoffs.

[black magick hustla]

also ratm and most political music is really bad. except gang of four

[NoOneIsIllegal]

in b4 the adorno jerkoffs.
commence jerking

R5UBdh56igQ

[Jimmie Higgins]

Well,I know what "good" music is,and it certainly isn't music created by artists who are perpetuated by large corporations with millions of dollars of advertaising backing up their clients;nor is it good when the artist/artists in question only have their popularity because they siphon off their success from a fan base which is more interested in the physical/superficial aspects of the performer than the actual meaning of the song.

Like everything produced in capitalism, I think it's less about the "taste" of the audience in the abstract and more about how things are produced and distributed and for what purpose. The problem IMO is not the bands or the audience, but that the underlying reason for the cultural production (this goes for all media) is profits.

Because of the profit-motive we have situations where bands are prefabricated, teams of writers come up with pop-songs for performers, and all else being equal, record companies will not invest in risky or daring music.

The flip side of this is that commercial music looses its use value constantly as the audience gets tired of pre-fab singers and bands pretending to sing heart-felt expressions of emotion with words and harmonies made by a bunch of anonymous songwriters and approved by lawyers market-research data and business-people. That's why pop-music is constantly re-inventing itself and why companies to a certain extent try and jump on new trends and repackage it when something like hip-hop or punk or folk-rock or whatnot gains popularity.


Honestly,I've heard good music before,and such songs don't repeat the same word every four seconds,or blab on and on about romances/sex/that girl or guy dumped me.We have heard that message a trillion times before and it's not original in the slightest,and chances are,if it's not original than it won't be as good as something that is completely new,or barely touched upon.

Definitely, capitalism and profit-driven culture is a fetter on a real flowering of music, but I also don't think people are just drones or stupid for enjoying some pop-music or a popcorn movie. Hollywood and the Music Industry have a lot of resources and a lot of accumulated skills so while a lot of it may be heartless in the end, enough of that production value and resources can produce some dazzling and interesting stuff. Hitchcock movies or motown music is as much a profit-driven factory-style cultural product as a shitty Roland Emmerich movie or a Boy-band from 1998, but by pooling people with well-developed skills, they were able to achieve some genuinely interesting work that is enjoyable and memorable.

So I think there's nothing wrong with popular music and culture or having a mass-audience in the abstract, the goal of culture for profits is quite a problem. Putting the tools of mass communication and freeing culture from copyrights and allowing more people to get education in culture and entertainment and art production (as well as actual access and collective democratic control to the means to produce these things) would free culture to flower on its own terms.

[Delenda Carthago]

Both RATM and Bieber's fans dont get the message.If this wasnt true, you would have millions and millions of revolutionaries in the 90s in USA.

The most fucked up thing for me is to see people in Marilyn Manson's or Slipknot or Tool or other progressive artists being all nationalist, sexist, racist etc. I m like "you motherfuckers just dont get it!!!"

[praxis1966]

Arguments about whether or not RATM are actually any good or the cultural significance of a commercially viable revolutionary leftist band notwithstanding, my two cents...

I think it's worth mentioning here that the good ol' days are rarely as good as we remember or like to think they were. In 1996, when RATM released the Evil Empire album that broke them into the mainstream, they were hardly the most prevalent band around. Fact is, that era (the mid 90s) was saturated with just as much plastic pop crap as we see today. Does anybody here remember which album and song charted the most weeks at number one that year?

All due respect to the "Girl Power" movement it spawned and her legions of adoring fans, but the number one album was Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill album and it sucked. I remain convinced that her popularity can be chalked up to two things: The blowjob reference in that album's first single and the shallow observational humor masquerading as profundity in subsequent singles, one of which contained gross abuse of the word "ironic." As for the number one single that year... Wait for it... The fucking Macarena. Nothing Justin Bieber has done or will ever do can make me want to murder someone more than that song does.

Anyway, a couple of addenda to an already fine post by Jimmy Higgins...


Because of the profit-motive we have situations where bands are prefabricated, teams of writers come up with pop-songs for performers, and all else being equal, record companies will not invest in risky or daring music.

I don't know what it says about this era or the one I just discussed or about the nature of pop music in general, but it's noteworthy that Korn are a boy band... Just sayin' 'n' shit.


So I think there's nothing wrong with popular music and culture or having a mass-audience in the abstract, the goal of culture for profits is quite a problem. Putting the tools of mass communication and freeing culture from copyrights and allowing more people to get education in culture and entertainment and art production (as well as actual access and collective democratic control to the means to produce these things) would free culture to flower on its own terms.

I added my own emphasis to stress what I think is the most important point in JH's entire post, one which he cleverly tried to hide inside parentheses. The number of certifiable genius musicians with which I've been personally acquainted who've been forced to pawn their gear, subsequently robbing us of their art, just to eat is far more than I care to count. When you reason that figure becomes exponentially larger when scaled upward to an entire society it borders on tragedy. Never mind that I don't think I have to tell anybody of the repercussions in the world of visual media if we started charging $500 for a usable paintbrush and a minimum of $1000 for a decent piece of canvas (which is the going rate for new guitars and amplifiers that produce a halfway decent sound)...

[gorillafuck]

also ratm and most political music is really bad. except gang of fourI disagree there. A lot of political music isn't that good because it gets too in depth about whatever's being sung about to the point where it's not poetic or catchy but some political music is very good.


Well,I know what "good" music isUmm then how do you explain your bad music taste?

Check mate.

But seriously music is obviously all opinion. Honestly I find what according to some people is "real music" like Death Cab For Cutie or Aerosmith to be terrible. They like it, I don't care.

[L.A.P.]

It's typical of Rockists to romanticize past eras of music and believe that this generation is worse than the last. The fact is, the 70's and 60's weren't really all Jimi Hendrix and Black Sabbath. The great artists of the past times were not as mainstream as we like to think they were, if you actually look at the Billboard charts of the past you notice that the great artists of that time weren't really on it that much. Shitty corporate bubblegum music was always mainstream, it's just that it loses its relevance and the legitimate music stays relevant therefore making that the iconic music of the time. I guarantee that an artist like Immortal Technique will be more remembered in the future than an artist like Soulja Boy despite what the charts say.


but it's noteworthy that Korn are a boy band

Ehhhh, WRONG!

[praxis1966]

Ehhhh, WRONG!

Actually, they are. I definitely recall reading that they were assembled by a producer on Sony's website years ago (it was somewhere around 96-98).

[Robespierre Richard]

It doesn't matter, nu metal still sucks. Though I like it more than all other metal.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

You know when you're at a party and you've been drinking and smoking shit like Lil' Wayne actually sounds good.

So yeah outside of parties I will never listen to any of that crap, but when you're cross-faded at a party it actually sounds good :thumbup1:

[StalinFanboy]

People who politicize music suck. Listen to what sounds good to you. I'm listening to hardcore right now, I'll probably listen to some local accoustic country after that, and maybe after that some top 40 shit. chill the fuck out and enjoy good music, whether it makes you think or dance.

[9]

also ratm and most political music is really bad.

Political music is like political art; its a question of how the 'political content' is conveyed.

So for example (IMO):

good:
http://anneserdesign.com/Lissitzky3.jpg


lol bad:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Xq1_QVuOUV4/S19M3PBu8II/AAAAAAAAOCw/XYlZL2hrJ6E/s400/sov60.jpg


good:
pKx7ofnR1w0

lol bad:
kOINSUWOqyo

[black magick hustla]

the starting lines are really good of that last song:

i am from were the gold and diamonds are ripped from the earth,
right next to the slave castles, were the water is cursed.

[Pirate Utopian]

Da Biebz > RATM

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Political music is like political art; its a question of how the 'political content' is conveyed.

So for example (IMO):

good:
http://anneserdesign.com/Lissitzky3.jpg


lol bad:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Xq1_QVuOUV4/S19M3PBu8II/AAAAAAAAOCw/XYlZL2hrJ6E/s400/sov60.jpg


good:
pKx7ofnR1w0

lol bad:
kOINSUWOqyo
I think that's entirely subjective. That first piece of art looks like a few shapes thrown together on a piece of paper, and that's about it. The second looks pretty ridiculous, but some propaganda does not.
The Immortal Technique song is way better to me than that other song you showed.
Who are you to decide what is labeled "good" and "bad" in this case?

[9]

the starting lines are really good of that last song:

i am from were the gold and diamonds are ripped from the earth,
right next to the slave castles, were the water is cursed.

Meh. I don't like it; the whole thing just seems totally put on to me.


I think that's entirely subjective.
yep.


That first piece of art looks like a few shapes thrown together on a piece of paper, and that's about it.Man, its Beat the Whites with the Red Wedge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_the_Whites_with_the_Red_Wedge)!! How can you say that?!?! :crying:


The second looks pretty ridiculous, but some propaganda does not.
The Immortal Technique song is way better to me than that other song you showed.
Who are you to decide what is labeled "good" and "bad" in this case?I guess you missed the "IMO" in parentheses.

[#FF0000]

literally every generations music sucks.

edit: also I don't think ratm is that bad. Their lyrics are probably the worst part of their music.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Man, its Beat the Whites with the Red Wedge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_the_Whites_with_the_Red_Wedge)!! How can you say that?!?! :crying:It still looks like a bunch of shapes randomly put onto a piece of paper. Now I'm curious as to what your avatar is supposed to mean. A black circle surrounded by white. Can't think of a thing.


I guess you missed the "IMO" in parentheses.
Yep :blushing:

[black magick hustla]

It still looks like a bunch of shapes randomly put onto a piece of paper. Now I'm curious as to what your avatar is supposed to mean. A black circle surrounded by white. Can't think of a thing.


Yep :blushing:

its some hipster shit dont worry

[Amphictyonis]

Most everything can be blamed on the NWO fluoride in the water. But really, I would say the Public Relations business of image creation/crowd psychology/advertisements/manipulation is to blame. I'm going with that option. Look up the history of public relations. It essentially means propaganda. Capitalist propaganda. We're inoculated with it 24/7. This hasnt always been the case with capitalism as it certainly wasn't in Marx's time, hell, if Marx were alive today he'd probably write an entire book on the effects of capitalist 'public relations'.

[Tim Finnegan]

People who politicize music suck. Listen to what sounds good to you. I'm listening to hardcore right now, I'll probably listen to some local accoustic country after that, and maybe after that some top 40 shit. chill the fuck out and enjoy good music, whether it makes you think or dance.
You realise that this, in itself, is a statement which politicises music?


That first piece of art looks like a few shapes thrown together on a piece of paper, and that's about it.
TKYQ5ibxslI

[praxis1966]

This discussion has turned into something else I've been thinking quite a bit about lately... After years of rooting around for leftist bands and deciding that a lot of them really aren't that good and I've just been forcing myself to like them because of the message, I found myself (bizarrely) agreeing with something a Christian friend said to me back in high school.

He listened to a lot of Christian rock and what not, but he said he basically judged Christian bands by the same standards he judged secular music. No matter what he was listening to, it was because he really liked the band's overall sound regardless of message... At this point I kinda feel the same way about political music. There are just certain styles I can't abide (goth rock and emo for instance), and all the genuine leftist sentiment in the world ain't gonna make a damned bit of difference.

Besides, this is really, really good no matter what your politics are:

DEC8nqT6Rrk

[L.A.P.]

Actually, they are. I definitely recall reading that they were assembled by a producer on Sony's website years ago (it was somewhere around 96-98).

No they weren't.:thumbdown:



lol bad:
kOINSUWOqyo[/spoil]

Fucking great song.

[praxis1966]

No they weren't.:thumbdown:

Well, you know, I've no way to prove it to you since that site's no longer up and you've no reason to believe me, but I know what I read so I stand by the assertion. Either way, it's kind of immaterial to me, since any artistic integrity they might have had evaporated when they signed an endorsement deal with Puma. I actually owned their first 3 studio albums but refused to buy Issues after that. They always were kinda glam, what with the Adidas uniforms and Davis in those stupid sequined jumpsuits and 3-striped kilts, but getting payed for an image makes you a pop star and a sellout in my mind.

[Robespierre Richard]

T8m6IbItrgk

Zeitgeist-defining music of the RATM epoch.

[bailey_187]

Rick Ross>>>>>RATM

uhhhhhn!!

[Kuppo Shakur]

Don't talk shit on Rage Against the Machine.:crying:
Honestly, I love that shit, lyrics and all.