Sinophobia - hate crime against Chinese people in the US

[Queercommie Girl]

While I strongly oppose Islamophobia, I think if there is excessive focus on just the plight faced by one ethnic minority group, like Muslims, then the racism faced by other non-white ethnic minorities, or even certain white groups like Irish and East Europeans, would in practice get ignored.

Muslims face a lot of racism in the US today, but so do Chinese, Indians, Native Americans, Hispanics and Blacks. Some people have a ridiculous blind assumption that ethnic Chinese people in Western countries like the US don't face racism from whites in the same way as other non-white minority groups. This is a ridiculous line, since Sinophobia does exist, just like Islamophobia does. Fact is, we ethnic Chinese people are an oppressed minority in the West, just like Blacks and Muslims, only in somewhat different ways.

In fact, in recent years Sinophobia has increased somewhat among the right-wing hawks of the US due to the perceived geopolitical threat to the US from a rising China. I don't consider China today to be genuinely socialist, but I strongly oppose Sinophobic attitudes against ethnic Chinese people simply on the basis of geopolitical rivalry between American imperialism and Chinese national capitalism. It's like in that Bruce Lee film, where a white guy tried to beat him up simply because the white guy's father fought and died in the Korean War.

For a particularly horrible case of Sinophobia, have a look at the case of Vincent Chin: (I know this is from some time ago but frankly racism against the Chinese in the West has not subsided in recent years)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin

Vincent Jen Chin[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin#cite_note-chin83-0) (simplified Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_Chinese_characters): 陈 (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%99%88)果 (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%9E%9C)仁 (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BB%81); traditional Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_characters): 陳 (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%99%B3)果 (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%9E%9C)仁 (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BB%81); 1955 – June 23, 1982) was a Chinese American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_American) beaten to death in June 1982 in the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States), in the Detroit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit), Michigan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan) enclave of Highland Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Park,_Michigan)Chrysler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler) plant superintendent Ronald Ebens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Ebens), with the help of his stepson, Michael Nitz. The murder generated public outrage over the lenient sentencing the two men originally received in a plea bargain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain), as the attack, which included blows to the head from a baseball bat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_bat), possessed many attributes consistent with hate crimes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime). Many of the layoffs in Detroit's auto industry, including Nitz's in 1979, had been due to the increasing market share of Japanese automakers, leading to allegations that Chinese American Vincent Chin received racially charged comments before his death.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin#cite_note-wei-1) The case became a rallying point for the Asian American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_American) community, and Ebens and Nitz were put on trial for violating Chin's civil rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime_laws_in_the_United_States#Federal_law). Because the subsequent Federal prosecution was a result of public pressure from a coalition of many Asian ethnic organizations, Vincent Chin's murder is often considered the beginning of a pan-ethnic Asian American movement.

[Queercommie Girl]

Sinophobia is different from Islamophobia and Discrimination against Black people though.

Islamophobia in the US is mainly based on religious hatred against Islam, especially coming from some deranged right-wing Christian fundamentalists.

Discrimination against Blacks in the US is mainly based on physical racism, and the perception that Blacks are generally less intelligent.

No-one really specifically picks on Confucianism, Daoism and Buddhism to attack though. And Chinese and East Asians don't receive so much physical racism either. And even many hardcore right-wing white racists admit that East Asians are just as intelligent as Europeans.

Primarily Sinophobia and Racism against East Asians are more based on economic and geopolitical nationalism, the idea that a powerful China and/or Japan is a fundamental threat to the national security of the United States, and ethnic Chinese and East Asians are hated as a result of this.

The only physical racism against East Asians is that East Asian men are seen as less "physically fit" and "manly" since they are generally not as good in physical sports (except fields like martial arts, table tennis and badminton or mental sports like chess, where East Asians do excel in much more), and therefore less "sexually attractive" compared with Europeans or even Black people. There is no such physical racism against East Asian women though, who are generally seen as extremely sexually attractive, except perhaps a certain amount of sexual fetishisation.

So while we face just as much racism from whites as Blacks and Muslims do, they are of a different nature and content.

[Queercommie Girl]

Sinophobic racism in the US:

http://www.zakkeith.com/articles,blogs,forums/anti-Chinese-persecution-in-the-USA-history-timeline.htm

While the slavery of Africans and the genocide of Native Americans is a familiar topic to many, what the Chinese in America endured remains an unfamiliar subject to most. Severe acts of discrimination and racism—pogroms, massacres, mass expulsions and near-genocidal policies—were perpetrated against the Chinese, but the facts surrounding this “Chinese Chapter” in American history are all too often neglected or buried, and certainly not taught in standard school text books. Official mentions of the topic, if any, and anemic at best, tend to emphasize the small concessions granted the Chinese or the few reparative steps the USA took which as a rule came as too-little-too-late for many Chinese Americans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Springs_massacre

The Rock Springs Massacre

[synthesis]

Islamophobia in the US is mainly based on religious hatred against Islam, especially coming from some deranged right-wing Christian fundamentalists.

Discrimination against Blacks in the US is mainly based on physical racism, and the perception that Blacks are generally less intelligent.

Really? It has nothing to do with class and imperialism?

[Queercommie Girl]

Really? It has nothing to do with class and imperialism?

That's not what I meant. I'm describing the symptom, not the cause.

Obviously imperialism and capitalism are the ultimate causes for all kinds of racism, but different types of racism still manifest themselves in different ways.

[Rêve Rouge]

Primarily Sinophobia and Racism against East Asians are more based on economic and geopolitical nationalism, the idea that a powerful China and/or Japan is a fundamental threat to the national security of the United States, and ethnic Chinese and East Asians are hated as a result of this.

Fully agreed. This Republican ad below pretty much sums up conservative views on China.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTSQozWP-rM&feature=player_embedded

The media is always instilling fear of China beating the U.S. in terms of the economy. My environmentalist professor every now and then always complains about Asian countries such as China and Japan being ahead of America when it comes to sustainable technology and economic growth. He kept rambling on that "if we don't something about it, China will be far ahead of us and surpass our economy". I felt a bit uneasy whenever he ranted on about that...And there were a couple other Asians in that class also.

It just amazes me why American is so concerned about being the biggest economic superpower. If China becomes more economically well off than America, then good for them. We should be happy that other countries across the world can prosper too. Ok, I'm done ranting.

[Queercommie Girl]

Fully agreed. This Republican ad below pretty much sums up conservative views on China.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTSQozWP-rM&feature=player_embedded

The media is always instilling fear of China beating the U.S. in terms of the economy. My environmentalist professor every now and then always complains about Asian countries such as China and Japan being ahead of America when it comes to sustainable technology and economic growth. He kept rambling on that "if we don't something about it, China will be far ahead of us and surpass our economy". I felt a bit uneasy whenever he ranted on about that...And there were a couple other Asians in that class also.

It just amazes me why American is so concerned about being the biggest economic superpower. If China becomes more economically well off than America, then good for them. We should be happy that other countries across the world can prosper too. Ok, I'm done ranting.

It's funny though that in the eyes of many Americans, China today is just like Japan. Whereas in reality China on the whole is still a very poor country, and isn't like Japan at all.

[Summerspeaker]

After the Chinese Exclusion Act in the 1880s, the Chinese became the first racialized immigrant group that U.S. officials attempted to keep out of the country. Anti-Asian racism gripped the United States at that time and has only diminished fairly recently because of long struggles by Chinese Americans as well as shifting global conditions. You still occasionally here nativists note how undocumented Chinese and other Asian immigrants cross the U.S.-Mexico border as well Mexicans and Latin Americans; they invoke this as a basis for controlling the border and preventing this entry.

[synthesis]

That's not what I meant. I'm describing the symptom, not the cause.

Obviously imperialism and capitalism are the ultimate causes for all kinds of racism, but different types of racism still manifest themselves in different ways.

Sure, but you said:


Sinophobia is different from Islamophobia and Discrimination against Black people though...

Primarily Sinophobia and Racism against East Asians are more based on economic and geopolitical nationalism, the idea that a powerful China and/or Japan is a fundamental threat to the national security of the United States, and ethnic Chinese and East Asians are hated as a result of this.

You seemed to be implying that racism against East Asians is more based in imperialism/capitalism than racism against black/Muslim people. Am I just reading you wrong?

[daleckian]

racism against asiatic peoples, i.e, Russians, Chinese, Turks, etc. is always on the rise these days. Western bourgeoisie have to find new victims to suck blood out of now that Africans and Latin Americans have grown too wise to their tricks.

[Nehru]

I find this too exaggerated, sorry. As a dark-skinned person, I find all people to be equally racist, with any difference being the difference in the degree of power that the racist may hold.

[Queercommie Girl]

I find this too exaggerated, sorry. As a dark-skinned person, I find all people to be equally racist, with any difference being the difference in the degree of power that the racist may hold.

What is exaggerated?

"Dark-skinned" peoples aren't the only ones to suffer racism. Racism is clearly not just based on skin colour, but also on many other things.

[Queercommie Girl]

Sure, but you said:

You seemed to be implying that racism against East Asians is more based in imperialism/capitalism than racism against black/Muslim people. Am I just reading you wrong?

Not in any ultimate sense, nor am I saying that East Asians suffer more racism than Blacks and Muslims. I'm just saying they don't necessarily suffer less racism.

It's just that the manifestation is different. Do you see right-wingers in the US attacking East Asian religions in the same way they attack Islam? No. Do you see white racists claiming that East Asians have lower IQ than whites in the same way they claim that Blacks have lower IQ than whites? No.

The cause is the same, but racism against East Asians is presented in a different way to how it is presented against Muslims and Blacks.

[Queercommie Girl]

racism against asiatic peoples, i.e, Russians, Chinese, Turks, etc. is always on the rise these days. Western bourgeoisie have to find new victims to suck blood out of now that Africans and Latin Americans have grown too wise to their tricks.


Russians aren't Asiatic, they are white. Russians are even less Asiatic than darker-skinned Europeans from Southern Europe or Hispanic people in the Americas.

Russians do suffer some racism in the West too, but Russians aren't Asians, that's an objective fact.

[Nehru]

What is exaggerated?

"Dark-skinned" peoples aren't the only ones to suffer racism. Racism is clearly not just based on skin colour, but also on many other things.

I am not denying, but there are degrees. A Chinese person, for instance, isn't going to face problems in, say Turkey, whereas it's highly probable that a black person would be mocked at repeatedly. At least, Chinese people only face problems from whites, but dark people face racism not only from whites but even from fellow nonwhites like Arabs, Chinese, East Asians (and generally people who're a bit lighter, if not technically white). This cannot be ignored.

[Omsk]

Russians aren't Asiatic, they are white. Russians are even less Asiatic than darker-skinned Europeans from Southern Europe or Hispanic people in the Americas.

Russians do suffer some racism in the West too, but Russians aren't Asians, that's an objective fact.

We east Europeans usually suffer from stereotypes and prejudices,you know,big hairy vodka evil komunizm bad guys.

Regarding the Sinophobia,my opinion is quite simple - i oppose all kinds of western racism and racism in general,so i share your views on this matter Iseul.:)

[daleckian]

I find this too exaggerated, sorry. As a dark-skinned person, I find all people to be equally racist, with any difference being the difference in the degree of power that the racist may hold.

Good for you trot, but it's kind've hard to see a powerless [ethnic] minority as racist since they don't have their racism institutionalized in the state. Racism is prejudice backed by power. Don't forget that.

[daleckian]

Russians aren't Asiatic, they are white. Russians are even less Asiatic than darker-skinned Europeans from Southern Europe or Hispanic people in the Americas.

Russians do suffer some racism in the West too, but Russians aren't Asians, that's an objective fact.

For one, only people in North America sees Russians as part of the same "white" group that also holds also the Dutch, English, etc. Go on any white supremacist forum, and there is always a thread about how Russians and Polish people aren't white enough to be a member of their race.

also, think about the massive amount of hate crime against Eastern Europeans, particularly, Polish, Romanians, and Russians:


Last year, in Aberdeen, there was a 57% rise in racist incidents recorded by the police. The biggest group of victims were Africans, closely followed by Eastern Europeans. This accords with research by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights which found that across the continent Central and Eastern Europeans are among the main victims of discrimination.

so as you see, Africans and Eastern Europeans are the most oppressed people in Europe. I imagine Central Europeans includes people like the Hungarians, Macedonians, Serbs, i.e, more slavic or "asiatic" European phenotypes, aka "not white enough".



as far as the actual reality of the ethnic composition of Eastern Europeans, I highly disagree. Russians are not East Asians, but Asia is an enormous continent, and it's impossible to deny the influence the Turks, Central asian nomadic peoples and Khalkha Mongols have had on the people of Russia, both ethnically (many of the Khalkhas stayed--Lenin was Khalkha Mongol, for example) and culturally.

[Summerspeaker]

Russians aren't Asiatic, they are white. Russians are even less Asiatic than darker-skinned Europeans from Southern Europe or Hispanic people in the Americas.

Russians do suffer some racism in the West too, but Russians aren't Asians, that's an objective fact.

Objective facts either don't exist or don't matter when it comes to race and racism. While heredity and physical appearance play into constructions of race, they're only part of the equation. I know American racial nativists in the early twentieth employed claims of Asiatic mixture to attack various Eastern European groups. I imagine somebody back then at least used the same against Russians. Whiteness is about privilege and shifts based on the political circumstances.


At least, Chinese people only face problems from whites, but dark people face racism not only from whites but even from fellow nonwhites like Arabs, Chinese, East Asians (and generally people who're a bit lighter, if not technically white).

Historically, the Chinese have occasionally been targets for violence all across the Americas. The 1911 massacre in Torreón (http://www.8asians.com/2011/01/12/the-1911-massacre-of-chinese-immigrants-in-torreon-mexico/) stands out as a particularly horrific example.

[Queercommie Girl]

For one, only people in North America sees Russians as part of the same "white" group that also holds also the Dutch, English, etc. Go on any white supremacist forum, and there is always a thread about how Russians and Polish people aren't white enough to be a member of their race.

also, think about the massive amount of hate crime against Eastern Europeans, particularly, Polish, Romanians, and Russians:

so as you see, Africans and Eastern Europeans are the most oppressed people in Europe. I imagine Central Europeans includes people like the Hungarians, Macedonians, Serbs, i.e, more slavic or "asiatic" European phenotypes, aka "not white enough".


I didn't say East Europeans don't face racism in the West, in fact, I've always said that they do. I'm just saying objectively East Europeans aren't Asians.



as far as the actual reality of the ethnic composition of Eastern Europeans, I highly disagree. Russians are not East Asians, but Asia is an enormous continent, and it's impossible to deny the influence the Turks, Central asian nomadic peoples and Khalkha Mongols have had on the people of Russia, both ethnically (many of the Khalkhas stayed--Lenin was Khalkha Mongol, for example) and culturally.


East Asians, Central Asians and North Asians aren't physically so different. Central Asians and North Asians are generally bigger and taller, but we are all of the same Northern Mongolid type essentially. The Turks were a Northern Mongolid people originally as well, with some Caucasoid admixture, before they migrated west and settled in Indo-European-speaking Anatolia, now Turkey. Japanese and Korean are all Altaic languages, just like Mongolian, Manchu and Turkish. Chinese and Tibetan belong to a different linguistic group though.

It's true that Lenin was half-Asiatic, and some Russians and East Europeans have a Northern Mongolid admixture due to the Mongol conquest of Russia and parts of Eastern Europe many centuries ago.

[daleckian]

I didn't say East Europeans don't face racism in the West, in fact, I've always said that they do. I'm just saying objectively East Europeans aren't Asians.



East Asians, Central Asians and North Asians aren't physically so different. Central Asians and North Asians are generally bigger and taller, but we are all of the same Northern Mongolid type essentially. The Turks were a Northern Mongolid people originally as well, with some Caucasoid admixture, before they migrated west and settled in Indo-European-speaking Anatolia, now Turkey. Japanese and Korean are all Altaic languages, just like Mongolian, Manchu and Turkish. Chinese and Tibetan belong to a different linguistic group though.

It's true that Lenin was half-Asiatic, and some Russians and East Europeans have a Northern Mongolid admixture due to the Mongol conquest of Russia and parts of Eastern Europe many centuries ago.

but the thing is, many Russians have Khalkha Mongol ancestry. I'd argue that in fact, almost all of them do since the Mongols dominated all of Russia at one point.

[Queercommie Girl]

I am not denying, but there are degrees. A Chinese person, for instance, isn't going to face problems in, say Turkey, whereas it's highly probable that a black person would be mocked at repeatedly.


How do you know Chinese people won't face racism in Turkey? Are you Chinese, have you been to Turkey and done some kind of investigation there?

Objectively I don't really know either, but I think you shouldn't just jump to conclusions.

Historically, Altaic peoples do sometimes look down on Chinese peoples for being "weaker". Chinese culture isn't as militaristic as Altaic cultures.



At least, Chinese people only face problems from whites, but dark people face racism not only from whites but even from fellow nonwhites like Arabs, Chinese, East Asians (and generally people who're a bit lighter, if not technically white). This cannot be ignored.
East Asians aren't white. A few Chinese women employing skin-whitening creams may look "white", but generally speaking Chinese people are even more darker skinned than most Hispanics. Have you ever been to rural China? Rural Chinese are even more darker-skinned than Urban Chinese.

[Dr Mindbender]

I would say that sinophobia is more pronunced where the chinese community forms the largest or significant part of the minority population. That is certainly the case here in Northern Ireland, where hate crimes against the Chinese, other east asians and east europeans in more or less that order have been a problem. Our ethnic tapestry is rather monotone (i'd say we're at least 20 years behind mainland GB) though so its an inevitable consequence when you have a majority white population who have been culturally conditioned to rile against multiculturalism. Here white people cannot live with other whites so theres not much hope for inter racial harmony.

[Nehru]

How do you know Chinese people won't face racism in Turkey? Are you Chinese, have you been to Turkey and done some kind of investigation there?

Objectively I don't really know either, but I think you shouldn't just jump to conclusions.

We can only go by statistics. How many blacks have been treated badly in countries like Turkey, Egypt etc., and compare it with other ethnic groups.


East Asians aren't white. A few Chinese women employing skin-whitening creams may look "white", but generally speaking Chinese people are even more darker skinned than most Hispanics. Have you ever been to rural China? Rural Chinese are even more darker-skinned than Urban Chinese.

I don't want to go into 'who's whiter than whom' contest, but East Asians are certainly white as far as skin color is concerned. Even 'dark' East Asians are almost as white as Caucasians. At least, they have this advantage, unlike other nonwhites who're unmistakably dark and therefore subject to the worst sort of racism.

[Queercommie Girl]

We can only go by statistics. How many blacks have been treated badly in countries like Turkey, Egypt etc., and compare it with other ethnic groups.


Do you have any actual sources?



I don't want to go into 'who's whiter than whom' contest, but East Asians are certainly white as far as skin color is concerned. Even 'dark' East Asians are almost as white as Caucasians. At least, they have this advantage, unlike other nonwhites who're unmistakably dark and therefore subject to the worst sort of racism.


Do you consider Hispanic people to be white? What about Arabs? Most Chinese people are even more darker-skinned than most Hispanics, and are no lighter than Arabs, especially Chinese people from rural areas.

It depends on your definition of "white". If you consider Arabs, Central Asians, Turks and Hispanics to be "white", then I guess you could make the case that East Asians are "white" too. Though skin colour isn't just "white" and "black", you will find that East Asians have a yellowish tinge to our skin colour. Which is why we are often referred to as the yellow race.

Also, in South Africa under the aparteid system, East Asians (except the Japanese) were not treated as "white", nor were they treated as "black", but rather they were treated as the "mixed category". Nazis like Hitler also consider the Chinese to be an inferior race, regardless of what he said about the Japanese due to geo-political reasons. There was also the Chinese Exclusion Act in the Americas based on physical race.

Another thing is that "white" doesn't equal "caucasian". There is also the difference in facial structure. East Asians are often referred to as "slant-eyed" in a discriminatory way, while dark-skinned but "big-eyed" ethnic Tamil people would not be. Because Tamil people's facial shape is often closer to that of white caucasians than the Chinese people's facial shape is.

Also, even white people like East Europeans often face a lot of racism in the West too, hate crime against East Europeans in some areas of Britain is even greater than hate crimes against some other ethnic minority groups, so just have "lighter skin", even for caucasians, doesn't mean much in many contexts.

You might not be interested in "who is lighter than whom contest", but you sure are interested in "who is more oppressed than whom contest". I have no interest in your ridiculous "oppression olympics", or somehow think that dark-skinned people deserve more of a "positive discrimination" just because you are "bottom barrel". I never tried to make the point that Chinese and East Asians are more oppressed than other non-Europeans, just that they are not necessarily less oppressed.

Also, just because the caste system in the Indian Subcontinent is based primarily on skin colour, doesn't mean every ethnic caste system in the world is. The Mongol caste system is partly based on physical size for instance. Do you think that it is more unacceptable to be discriminated on the basis of skin colour than it is to be discriminated on other factors such as physical size, facial structure, gender, sexuality or indeed class and economic income? Marxism does not believe "skin colour" is the primary element of discrimination anyway, class and economic status is.

[red cat]

Sinophobia is very common in India too. In general mongoloid people from the north east are also treated as second class citizens.

[Queercommie Girl]

Sinophobia is very common in India too. In general mongoloid people from the north east are also treated as second class citizens.

I would also add though that in China sometimes there is also racism against Indian people (especially darker-skinned Indian people) as well. So between India and China it really goes both ways.

[red cat]

I would also add though that in China sometimes there is also racism against Indian people (especially darker-skinned Indian people) as well. So between India and China it really goes both ways.

I am aware of this. But China has been through a socialist phase and anti-Indian racism is relatively new there, whereas anti-Chinese racism in India is much more intense and combines with traditional Hindu cultural fascism and anti-communism. During the Sino-Indian war many Chinese communities had faced genocidal conditions in India.

[TC]

Fact is, we ethnic Chinese people are an oppressed minority in the West, just like Blacks

While this was true to an extent (and always lesser extent than with blacks) historically, it is just false today.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/US_real_median_household_income_1967_-_2008.png

The graph speaks for itself. Black and hispanic people are structurally and institutionally oppressed in a way that white and Asian people are not. Maybe you can find an example of a crazy anti-Chinese racist, or an example of a crazy anti-white racist, but racism is not really in its oppressive form, about the individual thoughts and comments of particular people, but about the systemic socio-economic repression of communities. And that is just not a phenomena that occurs with Asian people in the U.S. (at least used in the American use of the word "Asian").

[Nehru]

I am aware of this. But China has been through a socialist phase and anti-Indian racism is relatively new there, whereas anti-Chinese racism in India is much more intense and combines with traditional Hindu cultural fascism and anti-communism. During the Sino-Indian war many Chinese communities had faced genocidal conditions in India.

The last sentence requires proof, and, if my historical knowledge is correct, it was China that started the war.

Racism against dark-skinned people in China is common, so much that a couple of years ago an african beauty contest winner was harassed simply because she was black. Such things are unheard of in the subcontinent. Many dark-skinned people win pageants and some of them even have good careers in the movie industry.

[Nehru]

I would also add though that in China sometimes there is also racism against Indian people (especially darker-skinned Indian people)

It happened to me many times, I am sorry to say. And that's why it annoys me when people like redcat (who have probably never experienced Chinese racism) say China is better than the subcontinent in this respect. As a dark person, I feel more comfortable in India than I'd do in East Asia.

[Queercommie Girl]

While this was true to an extent (and always lesser extent than with blacks) historically, it is just false today.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/US_real_median_household_income_1967_-_2008.png

The graph speaks for itself. Black and hispanic people are structurally and institutionally oppressed in a way that white and Asian people are not. Maybe you can find an example of a crazy anti-Chinese racist, or an example of a crazy anti-white racist, but racism is not really in its oppressive form, about the individual thoughts and comments of particular people, but about the systemic socio-economic repression of communities. And that is just not a phenomena that occurs with Asian people in the U.S. (at least used in the American use of the word "Asian").

I wouldn't put "Asian" people (in America) in the same category as WASPS though. While more Asians in America are middle-income professionals compared with Blacks and Hispanics, there is a certain "corporate ceiling" for almost all Asians, just like there is one for most white women as well, so that we could never actually reach the highest positions in companies and corporations like WASPS can. I'd add that whites of Eastern European, Southern European or Irish descent are also disadvantaged to some extent. Another thing to note is the sheer economic inequality within the Asian community in the US, which is much greater than many other ethnic communities. On the one hand you have many high-earning professionals and mid-level managers, but on the other hand you also have many modern-day coolies slaving away in China Towns without any kind of Union representation. The sad thing is that many rich Asians don't really care about their poor fellow Asians. Also, I doubt the figure you have shown includes recent immigrants from say mainland China who have not really integrated into mainstream American society at all. They tend to face more problems than 2nd or 3rd generation Chinese Americans. You once argued against crude economic determinism, and in this case I would agree with this approach. Not all problems faced by Asians are directly economical. Some of it is cultural, for instance, there are no real good and positive mainstream Asian film stars in America (outside the genres of martial arts or science fiction). Asian women also tends to be more fetishised and treated as "exotic" sex objects than white women, while Asian men are sometimes treated as "less manly" in mainstream US culture simply because they don't buy into either the ultra-masucline US militarist culture or the thuggish culture of certain reactionary lumpen elements which is especially pronounced in the US, but much less so in European countries. At any rate, your figures are only for the US. In Europe, I know for a fact that poor Chinese immigrants face racism and discrimination. There was an incident of dozens of Chinese immigrant coolies suffocating to death at the back of a lorry in the UK about a decade ago.

[bailey_187]

UK not US but oh well

theres been that thing about that white girl going missing from a night club, was all over the news until they found her body (its sad). but then the other day i seen some thing in the london evening standard about some chinese boy whos been missing after being at a night club or bar or something for like a week, and his university flats show him not returning that night, but all it got was a little column in a london newspaper, not seen anything on national news.

i not really been following too much, so maybe theres something about the cases i missed, i dno, but could be racism

[Queercommie Girl]

UK not US but oh well


Europe today is generally more anti-immigrant than the US today, but poor Chinese immigrants face a lot of problems in the US too. The FBI sometimes has crack downs on illegal Chinese immigrants residing in China Towns.



theres been that thing about that white girl going missing from a night club, was all over the news until they found her body (its sad). but then the other day i seen some thing in the london evening standard about some chinese boy whos been missing after being at a night club or bar or something for like a week, and his university flats show him not returning that night, but all it got was a little column in a london newspaper, not seen anything on national news.


I fail to see your point, are you saying the life of a white girl is worth more than the life of a Chinese guy or something? :confused:

Seriously, in the UK the section of the Chinese community that faces the most problems are immigrants (sometimes illegal immigrants) from poor rural areas of China, often working for ethnic Chinese businessmen under poor conditions without any kind of Trade Union representation.

We should try to bring Trade Unionism into China Towns.

[Queercommie Girl]

Not all Asians are well-educated professionals earning a lot of money. That's what's referred to as the Model Minority myth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority

Model minority refers to a minority ethnic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic), racial (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28classification_of_human_beings%29), or religious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_group) whose members achieve a higher degree of success (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_status) than the population average (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average). It is most commonly used to label one ethnic minority higher achieving than another ethnic minority. This success is typically measured in income (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income), education (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education), and related factors such as low crime rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_rate) and high family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family) stability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stability).

In the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States), the term is associated with American Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews) and Asian Americans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Americans), primarily Chinese, Filipino, Indian, Japanese, and Korean Americans.

... ...

Furthermore, the model minority concept can even be emotionally damaging to Asian Americans, particularly since they are expected to live up to their peers who are part of the model minority. Studies have shown that Asian Americans suffer from higher rates of stress, depression, mental illnesses, and suicide attempts in comparison to other races.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority#cite_note-21) The pressures to achieve and live up to the model minority image have taken a mental and psychological toll on Asian Americans.[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority#cite_note-22)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority#cite_note-22)
Studies have noted a spike in prescription drug abuse by Asian Americans, particularly students. Many have speculated that the use of illegal prescription drugs have been in response to Asian Americans' pressure to succeed academically.[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority#cite_note-23)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority#cite_note-23)
Asians have been the target of bullying and racism from other races due to the model minority stereotype.

Many poor Chinese immigrants, sometimes illegal immigrants, are basically modern-day coolies. They have little education, little money, and don't speak good English at all.

Next time you go to your local China Town, think about all those Chinese workers slaving there. Not a single one of them has any kind of Trade Union representation. Some are also under the control of the Chinese mafia. I know this because one of my aunts used to work in a Chinese restaurant in London's China Town, and the restaurant had to pay protection money to the Chinese mafia. The British police doesn't dare to touch the place.

My father knows a Chinese worker who works very long hours in a Chinese restaurant with relatively low pay, and his life is truly hard, because he has to send back more than half of his earnings to his wife back in China.

When you think about "Chinese people living in the West", think about these poor workers and have a sense of solidarity with them. Don't just think about those relatively rich ethnic Chinese professionals working in banks or managers.

[Queercommie Girl]

To put "whites" and "Asians" as two completely intrinsic groups is stupid anyway. Asians often face more racism from other Asians than from whites, and whites often face more racism from other whites too. White British people discriminates against Eastern European immigrants, and Japanese people discriminates against the Chinese.

Try to live as an ethnic Chinese person in Japan and you would see. One of my older cousins from North China worked and studied for a few years in Japan.

So there is no such thing as "pan-white solidarity" or "pan-Asian solidarity", only pan-working class solidarity.

[bailey_187]

was saying the media care more about missiing white person than chinese. damn ur impossible to talk to isuel

[Queercommie Girl]

^

Well, I agree with what EvilRedGuy has said about you...:lol:

[Queercommie Girl]

For more information on discrimination against Asian Americans, see:

"Model Minority: A Guide to Asian American Empowerment"

http://www.modelminority.com/joomla/
http://modelminority.com/tiki/tiki-index.php

[Queercommie Girl]

BTW, in the American context (in the sense of the so-called "Model Minority"), "Asians" generally include South Asian from the Indian subcontinent as well, and not just East Asians. (Yet Central Asians are not included despite being objectively closer to East Asians than South Asians are)

[Queercommie Girl]

but the thing is, many Russians have Khalkha Mongol ancestry. I'd argue that in fact, almost all of them do since the Mongols dominated all of Russia at one point.


I think this is too exaggerated, I have no doubt that many Russians have a Mongol admixture, but it's clearly still the minority component in the vast majority of people.

Also, I oppose all forms of militarism so there is absolutely nothing to be "proud of" regarding the Mongol conquests of Russia and Eastern Europe, just because Chinese and Mongols are all of the same Mongolid race.

Genghis Khan, the "rapist of the world" as some have called him, is a disgusting imperialist reactionary.