The Bolivarian revolution 12 years on

[Volcanicity]

From Venezuela Analysis.

12 years since the start of the Bolivarian Revolution, let’s draw a few little doves that help grasp the worrisome statist orientation of this Revolution. A pertinent clarification: the following data is not from Wikileaks.

Economics and Finances

1.Liberation of the country from the International Monetary Fund (IMF)
2.Increase in the international reserves
3.Reduction of the public debt from 47.5 to 25 points (2003-2006)
4.Elimination of the tax on bank debiting
5.Creation of the large banks: of the Treasury, of Development, and of the South

Petroleum

6.Recuperation of the oil industry
7.Recuperation of OPEC as an organization that defends the price of oil
8.Liberation of state-owned Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA) from the securities commission of the United States, paying the corresponding debt (26 billion dollars)
9.Increase in the oil reserves with the recuperation of the Orinoco Oil Belt

Agriculture and Production

10.Rescue of lands for agriculture and their handing over to the peasantry
11.Diversification of production: creation of factories for the production of tractors, bicycles, and automobiles as well as cement in association with Iran

Health

12.Creation of a new National Health Service (Inside the Barrio Mission)
13.Equipping of hospitals with incubators and other sophisticated equipment
14.Construction of Children’s Cardiology Center
15.Thousands of people with their vision recuperated (Miracle Mission)
16.Reduction in the infant mortality rate by 27 percent
17.Increase in the life expectancy rate to 73.18 years of age
18.Construction of the first Popular Indigenous Clinic in the state of Apure and an extensive network of outpatient clinics for the indigenous

Women

19.Creation of National Institute of Women (Inamujer)
20.Creation of the Simoncito program (attention for children from before birth)
21.Extension of the period for maternal lactation which forces employers to give more weeks to working mothers
22.Support for 200,000 mothers with economic difficulties (Mothers of the Barrio Mission)

Education

23.Bolivarian University in all states (over 800 graduates as upper-lever technicians) as well as the University of Sports, in Cojedes
24.Opening up of bachelors degrees for thousands of people, with more than 200,000 graduates to date (Ribas Mission)
25. Literacy achieved by over 1.5 million people, for which UNESCO declared the country free of illiteracy
26. Recuperation of over 100,000 education campuses
27.Creation of 58,236 new schools
28.Creation of 255 technical-training schools where 203,000 students study: the goal is to reach 500 of these schools for 500,000 students
29.Publication of over 50 million books distributed free of charge so as to increase the people’s cultural level
30.Equipping of the country’s public libraries
31.Creation of over 6,000 bolivarian schools and 75,000 classroom libraries
32.Payment of all debts to teachers and substantial increases in salaries
33.Elimination of tuition fees for state-operated schoolhouses

Poverty, Work, and Housing

34.Reduction of critical poverty from 80 to 30 percent (1998-2007)
35.Attending to hundreds of people, including children, living on the streets (Negra Hipólita Mission)
36.Network of Feeding Houses for those in need
37.Declaration of workplace immobility, to impede firings
38.Program for the substitution of shacks for houses
39.With benefits, the minimum wage of a Venezuelan worker amounts to 638 dollars per month (8,000 Mexican pesos)

Services

40.Increase in the number of people that today have drinkable water and electricity
41.Creation of the PDVSA Social Districts to assist hundreds of communities throughout the country
42.National plan for gasification (natural gas piped directly to communities/homes)

Communication

43.Creation of Telesur and the Bolivarian News Agency (ABN)
44.Approval of the law for social responsibility in radio and television
45.Placing in orbit of the Simón Bolívar satellite, for the development of tele-medicine, tele-education, and for information independence

Environment

46.Increase to 6,700 birds in the population of Caribbean flamingos, species considered to be in danger of extinction
47.Planting of 20 million trees since 2006 (Tree Mission)

Security

48.Increase in the number of people affiliated to Social Security, as well as in pensions for the elderly
49.Payment of all debts to professors, doctors and retirees
50.Retirement for catholic school teachers at ‘Faith and Happiness’ who for 50 years had not received retirement or bonuses
51.Construction of penitentiary cities intended to resolve of prison problem

Armed forces

52.Independence of the Armed Forces from the influence of the School of the Americas (SOA)
53.Exit of Yankee technicians that conducted espionage in the barracks as well as diversification in the markets from which arms are purchased
Integration
54.Entry into Mercosur
55.Creation of the Bolivarian Alternative for the People’s of Our America (ALBA) as an alternative to the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas (FTAA)

Politics

56.Increase in the self-esteem of the Venezuelan people
57.Establishment of the country’s sovereignty
58.Glorification of the history of popular and national struggles
59.Effective democracy

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6055.

[red cat]

International line

60. Teaming up with well-exposed revisionists.
61. Remaining completely silent about the ongoing people's wars in south Asia.
62. Passing negative comments about guerrilla warfare in Latin America in general.

[Volcanicity]

I don't disagree but it still does'nt negate the good that has been achieved through the Bolivarian Revolution.

[Volcanicity]

I don't disagree but it still does'nt negate the good that has been achieved through the Bolivarian Revolution.

[Delenda Carthago]

International line

60. Teaming up with well-exposed revisionists.
61. Remaining completely silent about the ongoing people's wars in south Asia.
62. Passing negative comments about guerrilla warfare in Latin America in general.
Revisionists you mean the fascist regimes of Iran,China, Russia and India?

[red cat]

Revisionists you mean the fascist regimes of Iran,China, Russia and India?

I don't know about Iran and Russia, but as far as the others and specifically the last one is concerned, yes.

[mosfeld]

Chávez is a social-democrat reformist with a radical posture, he is by no means a revolutionary. Chávez promotes capitulation by claiming that "armed struggle is not necessary", since left movements "could now get to power through elections", pretending as if his Khrushchevite capitulationist garbage is some new insight of his. Chávez and his clique of Latin American revisionists and reformists, known as "ALBA", also endorsed the Sri Lankans' fascist genocide against the Tamil people and blamed the LTTE for all of the violence that ensued during the Sri Lankan civil war.

The logic of Brezhnevites in endorsing this reactionary is absolutely beyond me, but then again, Brezhnevite logic boils down to one thing: geo-political, anti-Marxist support for anyone who waves a red flag.

I can understand why Chávez would appeal to another brand of fake communists, the Trotskyites, considering that his suggestion for a "5th International" would make Chávez one of the few people who actually recognize the clowns of the 4th International as legitimate. The classic and bankrupt "anti-Stalinism", of course, helps as well.

The real revolutionary communists are the FARC-EP and all of the heroic red fighters around the globe who continue to fight for communism, who reject Chávez's and Castro's capitulationist and Khrushchevite proposal of ending armed struggle.

[red cat]

Chávez is a social-democrat reformist with a radical posture, he is by no means a revolutionary. Chávez promotes capitulation by claiming that "armed struggle is not necessary", since left movements "could now get to power through elections", pretending as if his Khrushchevite capitulationist garbage is some new insight of his. Chávez and his clique of Latin American revisionists and reformists, known as "ALBA", also endorsed the Sri Lankans' fascist genocide against the Tamil people and blamed the LTTE for all of the violence that ensued during the Sri Lankan civil war.

The logic of Brezhnevites in endorsing this reactionary is absolutely beyond me, but then again, Brezhnevite logic boils down to one thing: geo-political, anti-Marxist support for anyone who waves a red flag.

I can understand why Chávez would appeal to another brand of fake communists, the Trotskyites, considering that his suggestion for a "5th International" would make Chávez one of the few people who actually recognize the clowns of the 4th International as legitimate. The classic and bankrupt "anti-Stalinism", of course, helps as well.

The real revolutionary communists are the FARC-EP and all of the heroic red fighters around the globe who continue to fight for communism, who reject Chávez's and Castro's capitulationist and Khrushchevite proposal of ending armed struggle.

Most Maoists agree with this, and see his bloc as a potential military threat to the ongoing revolutions. The contradictions of Chavez's Bollivarianism with Maoist revolutionary CPs will become more prominent as the people's wars advance.

[Delenda Carthago]

All I care about is him giving to the real revolutionaries the space to produce politics on their own.If he can do that, I dont care about the rest.

[red cat]

All I care about is him giving to the real revolutionaries the space to produce politics on their own.If he can do that, I dont care about the rest.

The question is whether Chavez is really doing that or not. There are certain identifying features of a modern revolutionary movement, and those of conscious revisionism. Unfortunately, Chavez's movement does not display a single inevitable military consequence of a revolutionary movement in action, and can be seen as a development of a revisionist model implemented by one of his south Asian allies.

[RED DAVE]

Any so-called Trotskyist or International Socialist (or anyone else) who thinks Chavez is anything but a social democrat needs to have their head (and their commitment to Marxism) examined.

RED DAVE

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Do Maoists think a "people's war" is the only possible revolutionary way of seizing power?

[red cat]

Do Maoists think a "people's war" is the only possible revolutionary way of seizing power?

Any armed movement or insurrection in which the masses participate is a people's war. During the strategic defensive stage of the world revolution, the ruling classes never let go without violent struggle. Hence a war is necessary. A war fought by a small minority of the population is bound to decay into colonialism or capitalism. Hence a people's war is necessary.

[Delenda Carthago]

Any armed movement or insurrection in which the masses participate is a people's war. During the strategic defensive stage of the world revolution, the ruling classes never let go without violent struggle. Hence a war is necessary. A war fought by a small minority of the population is bound to decay into colonialism or capitalism. Hence a people's war is necessary.
Of course there is war.But war has many way to be done. Lots of them dont include physical violence.

[red cat]

Of course there is war.But war has many way to be done. Lots of them dont include physical violence.

If a war takes place between two groups having sufficiently many members, and one group is weaker than the other in the beginning, then physical violence is guaranteed. Moreover, if it is a revolutionary war, then high ranking members from at least one side are guaranteed to die.

[pranabjyoti]

Well, so far Chavez and his associates don't stood against any armed struggle, but they also haven't stood beside any armed struggle. Probably that's realpolitics.
How successful that can be only time can tell.

[Delenda Carthago]

If a war takes place between two groups having sufficiently many members, and one group is weaker than the other in the beginning, then physical violence is guaranteed. Moreover, if it is a revolutionary war, then high ranking members from at least one side are guaranteed to die.
So this is how you categorise a revolution?By the amount of bullets shooted?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Any armed movement or insurrection in which the masses participate is a people's war. During the strategic defensive stage of the world revolution, the ruling classes never let go without violent struggle. Hence a war is necessary. A war fought by a small minority of the population is bound to decay into colonialism or capitalism. Hence a people's war is necessary.

But presumably this "war" will take different forms according to the local cultural, strategic, political and historical contexts.

It certainly seems like Chavez has had more success in revolutionizing his economy than his fellow South American revolutionaries in the Shining Path or FARC for instance, and within venezuela since his election there have been repeated confrontations between the Left and the upper classes even if they haven't been on the battlefield.

[red cat]

So this is how you categorise a revolution?By the amount of bullets shooted?

These are some features that help us to identify revolutionaries. Of course, a movement that displays all of the above features might make mistakes from time to time. But without these it is not possible for a group, or at least the leadership of the group, to be revolutionary.

EDIT: I mean, revolutionaries from a well developed movement. Of course, a group can be revolutionary even before it fires its first bullet for the revolution. But before a revolution develops or spreads considerably, it must engage in armed struggle.

[red cat]

But presumably this "war" will take different forms according to the local cultural, strategic, political and historical contexts.

There are some military invariants corresponding to the strategic defensive of the world revolution. Those are exactly the ones we are discussing.


It certainly seems like Chavez has had more success in revolutionizing his economy than his fellow South American revolutionaries in the Shining Path or FARC for instance, and within venezuela since his election there have been repeated confrontations between the Left and the upper classes even if they haven't been on the battlefield.

Again, you are assuming that he is a revolutionary. We have seen in south Asia how revisionism can deceive us into believing that it is taking certain revolutionary steps. However, there are certain points where its differences with a revolution become clear and those are the ones that we should discuss.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Don't you think it's a little reductionist to say "Reform of society hasn't worked before, it will never work again?" Especially considering there hasn't been a single violent revolution that actually produced a sustainable Socialist state either? So maybe India failed to live up to its revolutionary potential ... as far as I'm concerned, after the collapse of the USSR and the creation of Chinese Capital, the violent revolutions certainly don't seem to work any better than what Chavez has done.

[mosfeld]

Don't you think it's a little reductionist to say "Reform of society hasn't worked before, it will never work again?" Especially considering there hasn't been a single violent revolution that actually produced a sustainable Socialist state either?

Sustainable socialist states have been established throughout the world in the 20th century. What took them off the socialist road were the capitalist roaders who, after vicious struggle, took hold of the state and party. It had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the revolutions were violent.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Sustainable socialist states have been established throughout the world in the 20th century. What took them off the socialist road were the capitalist roaders who, after vicious struggle, took hold of the state and party. It had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the revolutions were violent.

The fact that "capitalist roaders" could take them off the path in of itself proves that those models weren't any more sustainable than revolution by reform. But more importantly, the fact that "capitalist roaders" could coopt the revolution in of itself proves what I'm saying, that there's no necessary link between violent or electoral revolution on one hand, and eventual counterrevolution on the other. If Chavez's revolution gets coopted, it's not because he wasn't violent or "revolutionary" enough, but because there were internal contradictions within the movement. Same goes for the Chinese and Soviet revolutions.

[mosfeld]

The fact that "capitalist roaders" could take them off the path in of itself proves that those models weren't any more sustainable than revolution by reform. But more importantly, the fact that "capitalist roaders" could coopt the revolution in of itself proves what I'm saying, that there's no necessary link between violent or electoral revolution on one hand, and eventual counterrevolution on the other. If Chavez's revolution gets coopted, it's not because he wasn't violent or "revolutionary" enough, but because there were internal contradictions within the movement. Same goes for the Chinese and Soviet revolutions.

The Marxist definition of a revolution is the forcible overthrow of one class by another -- not reforms, so I'd like to state firstly that you're completely wrong to begin with in saying that Chávez's reforms consist of a revolution.

Socialist state building has always been based on learning from past experiences. For example, Mao and the CPC summed up the failures and successes of the Soviet Union and learned from them. Mao realized that the remedy to capitalist roaders were revolutions within revolution, i.e., Cultural Revolutions, which uproot and forcibly overthrow the constantly re-emerging bourgeois elements within the party and state. Another thing that we have learned from past experience is that you can not transform the rotten bourgeois state into a socialist state through reforms, that there is no "peaceful road to socialism". The fact that Chávez propagates this line despite past experiences, and even suggests that armed revolutionaries, like the FARC-EP, disarm and adopt his profoundly insightful new realization, proves that he is a conscious revisionist and not a revolutionary.

Capitalism was restored in the USSR and PRC, this is a fact. This fact doesn't, however, immediately negate every aspect of the revolutions or "prove" that socialism established through violent revolution is automatically unsustainable. Communists learn from the successes and failures of past proletarian states. Once the South Asian nations which are currently in the midst of People's War have established proletarian states, they will undoubtedly sum up the mistakes and successes of Mao and the PRC and learn from them, just like Marx summed up the Paris Commune and Mao summed up the USSR.

[RED DAVE]

Any armed movement or insurrection in which the masses participate is a people's war.Notice, in line with Maoists theory, that he doesn't say the masses "lead," and this so-called Maarxist certainly doesn't say that the working class leads. Why does he express himself in this manner? Because this is what Maoism is.


During the strategic defensive stage of the world revolution, the ruling classes never let go without violent struggle. Hence a war is necessary. A war fought by a small minority of the population is bound to decay into colonialism or capitalism. Hence a people's war is necessary.And considering that a Maoist "people's war" involves an organized force outside the working class and peasantry, and hence a minority, the restoration of capitalism is, in red cat's own words, built into the system. This is what happened in China, the jewel of the crown of Maoism, in Vietnam and is getting ready to happen in Nepal.

RED DAVE

[Dimentio]

As long as Chàvez doesn't assassinate people and give socialism a bad name that way, I think he has been comparably good. At least the workers had got some meatbones of empowerment.

[red cat]

Notice, in linewith Maoists theory, that he doesn't say the masses "lead," and this so-called Maarxist certainly doesn't say that the working class leads. Why does he express himself in this manner? Because this is what Maoism is.

And considering that a Maoist "people's war" involves an organized force outside the working class and peasantry, and hence a minority, the restoration of capitalism is, in red cat's own words, built into the system. This is what happened in China, the jewel of the crown of Maoism, in Vietnam and is getting ready to happen in Nepal.

RED DAVE

Yet another pathetic attempt of yours to derail this thread. Nowadays your anti-Maoist trolling is getting more and more obvious. If you don't have anything relevant to say then start a thread in chit-chat for your useless rants.

[MarxistMan]

The leftist parties from the world, should be more supportive of the Bolivarian Revolution. I think that there are many leftist parties, leftist intellectuals and leftist writters that are not too supportive of the social-democrat and left leaning governments of Latin America like Bolivia, Venezuela, Brazil, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Uruguay, Argentina, Ecuador and Cuba.

And i think that this might be caused by a world view in right-wingers and even in many left-wingers that think that the world evolves around The United States and Europe. And that the other nations are irrelevant. But even though USA and Europe are a lot wealthier than the left-leaning governments of Latin America, we shouldn't judge wealth and per capital income to judge a political system. Because Nazi Germany and Spain under Franco was a lot richer than Haiti, but a lot more facist.

And many people think that just because Cuba, Venezuela and Uruguay are still poors and full of poverty, they have worse systems than USA and Europe.

But if its true that Europeans and Americans enjoy more wealth than those left-leaning nations, it's also true that a large part of the wealth enjoyed by Europeans and American citizens are in part caused by The European Imperialist invasions of Africa and Latin America. And USA's wealth caused by US Imperialism invasions of lots of countries since the foundation of USA in 1776 as a "Rising Empire" and an "Empire of Liberty" by the US Imperialist Founding Fathers

http://www.brianwillson.com is a great site that talks about the dark history of US Imperialism and US founding fathers

But anyways, having said all this, I think that the leftists of the world should support the Bolivarian Revolution and the left-leaning governments of Latin America a lot more, instead of just concentrating on their local cities, and own nations.

Oh by the way, i forgot to say that Hugo Chavez is close to the ideal and theory of Nietzsche's Superman. The Superman is the meaning of the earth


.

.


From Venezuela Analysis.

12 years since the start of the Bolivarian Revolution, let’s draw a few little doves that help grasp the worrisome statist orientation of this Revolution. A pertinent clarification: the following data is not from Wikileaks.

Economics and Finances

1.Liberation of the country from the International Monetary Fund (IMF)
2.Increase in the international reserves
3.Reduction of the public debt from 47.5 to 25 points (2003-2006)
4.Elimination of the tax on bank debiting
5.Creation of the large banks: of the Treasury, of Development, and of the South

Petroleum

6.Recuperation of the oil industry
7.Recuperation of OPEC as an organization that defends the price of oil
8.Liberation of state-owned Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA) from the securities commission of the United States, paying the corresponding debt (26 billion dollars)
9.Increase in the oil reserves with the recuperation of the Orinoco Oil Belt

Agriculture and Production

10.Rescue of lands for agriculture and their handing over to the peasantry
11.Diversification of production: creation of factories for the production of tractors, bicycles, and automobiles as well as cement in association with Iran

Health

12.Creation of a new National Health Service (Inside the Barrio Mission)
13.Equipping of hospitals with incubators and other sophisticated equipment
14.Construction of Children’s Cardiology Center
15.Thousands of people with their vision recuperated (Miracle Mission)
16.Reduction in the infant mortality rate by 27 percent
17.Increase in the life expectancy rate to 73.18 years of age
18.Construction of the first Popular Indigenous Clinic in the state of Apure and an extensive network of outpatient clinics for the indigenous

Women

19.Creation of National Institute of Women (Inamujer)
20.Creation of the Simoncito program (attention for children from before birth)
21.Extension of the period for maternal lactation which forces employers to give more weeks to working mothers
22.Support for 200,000 mothers with economic difficulties (Mothers of the Barrio Mission)

Education

23.Bolivarian University in all states (over 800 graduates as upper-lever technicians) as well as the University of Sports, in Cojedes
24.Opening up of bachelors degrees for thousands of people, with more than 200,000 graduates to date (Ribas Mission)
25. Literacy achieved by over 1.5 million people, for which UNESCO declared the country free of illiteracy
26. Recuperation of over 100,000 education campuses
27.Creation of 58,236 new schools
28.Creation of 255 technical-training schools where 203,000 students study: the goal is to reach 500 of these schools for 500,000 students
29.Publication of over 50 million books distributed free of charge so as to increase the people’s cultural level
30.Equipping of the country’s public libraries
31.Creation of over 6,000 bolivarian schools and 75,000 classroom libraries
32.Payment of all debts to teachers and substantial increases in salaries
33.Elimination of tuition fees for state-operated schoolhouses

Poverty, Work, and Housing

34.Reduction of critical poverty from 80 to 30 percent (1998-2007)
35.Attending to hundreds of people, including children, living on the streets (Negra Hipólita Mission)
36.Network of Feeding Houses for those in need
37.Declaration of workplace immobility, to impede firings
38.Program for the substitution of shacks for houses
39.With benefits, the minimum wage of a Venezuelan worker amounts to 638 dollars per month (8,000 Mexican pesos)

Services

40.Increase in the number of people that today have drinkable water and electricity
41.Creation of the PDVSA Social Districts to assist hundreds of communities throughout the country
42.National plan for gasification (natural gas piped directly to communities/homes)

Communication

43.Creation of Telesur and the Bolivarian News Agency (ABN)
44.Approval of the law for social responsibility in radio and television
45.Placing in orbit of the Simón Bolívar satellite, for the development of tele-medicine, tele-education, and for information independence

Environment

46.Increase to 6,700 birds in the population of Caribbean flamingos, species considered to be in danger of extinction
47.Planting of 20 million trees since 2006 (Tree Mission)

Security

48.Increase in the number of people affiliated to Social Security, as well as in pensions for the elderly
49.Payment of all debts to professors, doctors and retirees
50.Retirement for catholic school teachers at ‘Faith and Happiness’ who for 50 years had not received retirement or bonuses
51.Construction of penitentiary cities intended to resolve of prison problem

Armed forces

52.Independence of the Armed Forces from the influence of the School of the Americas (SOA)
53.Exit of Yankee technicians that conducted espionage in the barracks as well as diversification in the markets from which arms are purchased
Integration
54.Entry into Mercosur
55.Creation of the Bolivarian Alternative for the People’s of Our America (ALBA) as an alternative to the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas (FTAA)

Politics

56.Increase in the self-esteem of the Venezuelan people
57.Establishment of the country’s sovereignty
58.Glorification of the history of popular and national struggles
59.Effective democracy

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6055.

[RED DAVE]

As long as Chàvez doesn't assassinate people and give socialism a bad name that way, I think he has been comparably good. At least the workers had got some meatbones of empowerment.Like i keep saying, Dimentio, you are a social democrat.

RED DAVE

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Is there a "Goodwin's Law" about how long it takes for a leftwing internet debate to devolve into petty sectarian squabbles?

[el_chavista]

This month the Communist Party of Venezuela celebrated its 80th anniversary. For more than a half century (until 1990) there was no other Marxist reference than the CPV's Soviet Marxism. Several revolutionary situations have passed by and the CPV has stuck to this national liberation strategy that includes a "national" bourgeoisie's participation. Today that's the very same reason they ally with the Bolivarian movement.

Neither Chávez nor the Bolivarian leadership (let his military companions alone) could possibly elaborate other ideological tendency on this historically conditions. He won a presidential election just because of the propaganda by the deeds he got with his 1992 putsch, not because a socialist program and a mass workers organization. Its even hard to bet Chávez by his own will do something more than Allende and his "socialism by constitutional reforms."



All I care about is him giving to the real revolutionaries the space to produce politics on their own.If he can do that, I dont care about the rest.

Well, any progressive radical organization [of young revolutionaries who want to start political activities in Venezuela, provided they are pro-chavista,] is likely to be supplied by the Bolivarian government with a local office, an edition of its newspaper by the national press and facilities for its assemblies or congress (including food supply for the participants).

[Dimentio]

Like i keep saying, Dimentio, you are a social democrat.

RED DAVE

What do you then advocate? Overthrowal of Chàvez?

You know very well who would take over then. I am not too fond of him, but at least he has not (yet) massacred the people, like the previous Venezuelan rulers did in 1989, and he has improved the situation for the poorest segments of society.

Your uncompromising posturing is turning you very ineffectual.

[Delenda Carthago]

Well, any progressive radical organization [of young revolutionaries who want to start political activities in Venezuela, provided they are pro-chavista,] is likely to be supplied by the Bolivarian government with a local office, an edition of its newspaper by the national press and facilities for its assemblies or congress (including food supply for the participants).
Intresting.Can you explain "pro-chavista"? If I were a leninist or an anarchist that was doing critic from the left about the regime, would I be able to get all these facilities?

[Chambered Word]

Oh by the way, i forgot to say that Hugo Chavez is close to the ideal and theory of Nietzsche's Superman. The Superman is the meaning of the earth

Stay Marxist, RevLeft!


What do you then advocate? Overthrowal of Chàvez?

You know very well who would take over then. I am not too fond of him, but at least he has not (yet) massacred the people, like the previous Venezuelan rulers did in 1989, and he has improved the situation for the poorest segments of society.

Your uncompromising posturing is turning you very ineffectual.

I agree with Red Dave here, this is Marcyite social-democratic nonsense. No amount of blathering about US imperialism is going to change the fact that class struggle entails more than just supporting the smaller powers against the larger ones. I liked what mosfeld said in his first post, excepting that rubbish about Trots being drawn towards Chavez. Chavez's own Trotskyism is very amusing.


Any armed movement or insurrection in which the masses participate is a people's war. During the strategic defensive stage of the world revolution, the ruling classes never let go without violent struggle. Hence a war is necessary. A war fought by a small minority of the population is bound to decay into colonialism or capitalism. Hence a people's war is necessary.

Couldn't help but be reminded of this: http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=476

[red cat]

Couldn't help but be reminded of this: http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=476

Why ? Does your organization plan to use those ? :confused:

[pranabjyoti]

The fact that "capitalist roaders" could take them off the path in of itself proves that those models weren't any more sustainable than revolution by reform. But more importantly, the fact that "capitalist roaders" could coopt the revolution in of itself proves what I'm saying, that there's no necessary link between violent or electoral revolution on one hand, and eventual counterrevolution on the other. If Chavez's revolution gets coopted, it's not because he wasn't violent or "revolutionary" enough, but because there were internal contradictions within the movement. Same goes for the Chinese and Soviet revolutions.
To regain capitalism, so far imperialist intervention is a must and moreover you haven't learned the complexity of the countries where revolutions had held so far. China was a tremendously backward country and one of its enemy was feudal remains.
The words you have said can only be said with very little or almost no idea about the complexity and toughness of the job of establishing socialism. If you ask me, then I will say that it's like going from one floor to another while we have gone a few steps. It will take time to cover the other steps and reach the floor. We haven't reached the floor doesn't mean the floor is beyond reach.