How do I convince

[Property Is Robbery]

An Obama loving liberal that Chavez is not an evil dictator?

[RedStarOverChina]

The Tea Party's demonization of Obama---Something your Obama-loving friend must have agonized over---is quite akin to American demonization of Chavez.

[Property Is Robbery]

I used that one already but he doesn't particularly care for facts :p

I think I'll probably give up

[Tim Finnegan]

Observe that dictators don't engage in legislative elections that erode their party's power, as Chavez did in 2010.

[Omsk]

I think I'll probably give up
Never give up never let down,smash the class enemy.Smash him with good arguments,something the comrades who hail from the US will arm you with.(i cant,i have no idea whatsoever about the situation in the US)

[F9]

An Obama loving liberal that Chavez is not an evil dictator?

he isnt?

[Lunatic Concept]

He was elected? :confused:

[L.A.P.]

He was elected? :confused:

No shit he was elected.

[Property Is Robbery]

Never give up never let down,smash the class enemy.Smash him with good arguments,something the comrades who hail from the US will arm you with.(i cant,i have no idea whatsoever about the situation in the US)
Thanks for the encouragement but he happens to be my father and he is extremely close minded and hard headed. Good arguments to him come across as "socialist propaganda"

[Spartacus.]

An Obama loving liberal that Chavez is not an evil dictator?


Tell him that despite the fact that the opposition has actively participated in the failed coup attempt in 2002, Chavez has allowed it to continue it's work. Then ask him what would have a US president like Bush done in a similar situation.

Inform him that a majority of mass media in Venezuela is privately owned and that it is constantly attacking Chavez and his government, and yet he has always tolerated this extremely hostile attitude toward him. Then ask him about subservience of US media toward establishment and its unwillingness to seriously question any anti-people's policies.

Explain him that a "evil dictator" Chavez has given a free help composed of great amounts of heating fuel for millions of poor Americans after hurricane Katrina, while his beloved "democratic" Obama has caused thousands of innocent lives lost thanks to his decision to surge troops numbers in Afghanistan, has broken every promise made during elections and is nothing more than a corporate puppet used to mask the dictatorship of big capital in the US.

[Tim Finnegan]

Point out that Chavez was elected with a higher percentage of the popular vote than Obama (62.84% as opposed to 52.9%) and a higher still percentage of the potential vote (46.94% as opposed to 33.34%), which would imply that, if Chavez is indeed a dictator, then Obama must be several degrees worse.

[Delenda Carthago]

Tell him that a dictator wouldnt let the opposition tv stations runnin for years and years even though they took a stance in a coup against him.Nor he would give the workers more and more power and authority without having political limits on it(his supporters over other workers).

[GPDP]

Thanks for the encouragement but he happens to be my father and he is extremely close minded and hard headed. Good arguments to him come across as "socialist propaganda"

Are you me?

[RedSonRising]

You show him the health statistics showing the success of increased access to life-saving vaccinations due to Operacion Barrio Adentro, you show him the rallies and nationally televised criticisms of the administration made by opposition, and you show the recent seats in the National Assembly held by opposition party members, particularly the ones engaged in the fistfight with supporters.

(Emphasis on the fistfight; how many of those do ya think we saw under Hitler or Mussolini? Fistfights are clear indications of liberal institutions.)

[GPDP]

You show him the health statistics showing the success of increased access to life-saving vaccinations due to Operacion Barrio Adentro, you show him the rallies and nationally televised criticisms of the administration made by opposition, and you show the recent seats in the National Assembly held by opposition party members, particularly the ones engaged in the fistfight with supporters.

(Emphasis on the fistfight; how many of those do ya think we saw under Hitler or Mussolini? Fistfights are clear indications of liberal institutions.)

Chavez-haters will resort to anything to excuse such things. For instance, on the fistfight, my dad actually said something along the lines of "well of course the opposition came to blows, Chavez and his party don't let them say anything."

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Point out that there are numerous opposition newspapers, and opposition candidates preparing to run against him in elections next year. Oh, also he hasn't rigged a single election yet.

Perhaps he's a little authoritarian sometimes, but then again, what President isn't? (I mean, Bush got in with a smaller percentage of the vote, lied to the people on numerous occasions and started a war in Iraq, all with a huge expansion of executive power-granted, that argument might not convince a liberal, seeing as how liberals view Bush)

[Chimurenga.]

Send him these articles:

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5966
http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6055
http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/06-11-28-massive-prochaacutevez-rally.html
http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/06-10-10-chaacutevez-runs-reelection-am.html
http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/07-01-01-chaacutevez-victorydeepening.html

If he is still not convinced, invite him to watch The Revolution Will Not Be Televised (you can find a torrent download on a bunch of different sites) with you sometime.

[theblackmask]

Coming from my experiences with my own father, you are never going to come to any sort of agreement or even have a real conversation until you stop trying to apologize and defend things that the media demonizes, and stop trying to argue along the same lines as the bourgeois does.

Revolution does not hinge on whether or not people support Chavez, or if they think Mao was a good guy or not. It will come because of material circumstances and people wanting/needing to make their own lives better. The sooner we start talking more about creating a new world together, and less about heads of state that have no business with socialism, the sooner we can all start having real conversations instead of mindlessly repeating lines fed to us from the Left and Right.