Human nature

[Bombay]

I never understood the argument "communism doesn't work because: HUMAN NATURE". Why does everyone use this argument? It's like saying "your mom's ugly because of human nature". WTF?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Basically they misattribute the cause of the "everyone out for themselves" mentality. Rather than recognising it as the consequence of a socio-economic system that atomises people and encourages selfish backstabbing behaviour, they think it's something inherent to humans. This is due to ignorance more often than not - it's certainly not an argument I've seen advanced by anyone with more than a tiny bit of familiarity with history or anthropology.

While I think a certain degree of tribalism is inevitable, there is no reason to believe that it presents an insurmountable difficulty to establishing a communist society, and even then it may be possible to divert our tribalist tendencies down less self-destructive and antagonistic pathways. People can nowadays be fiercely loyal to their local football club, but they no longer conduct murderous kidnapping raids on the village over the next hill.

[GPDP]

It's not really an argument so much as an attempt to stifle discussion and shut you up. It's a thought-terminating cliche, so to speak, much like when a kid asks his mom why he has to eat his supper before he can eat pie for dessert, and she just tells him "because you just have to."

There's no real intellectual reasoning behind the "argument." It's meant to kill the conversation before the hard questions and facts come out.

[bcbm]

People can nowadays be fiercely loyal to their local football club, but they no longer conduct murderous kidnapping raids on the village over the next hill.

but i thought this was what football hooliganism was all about?

[Os Cangaceiros]

I don't get what's so hard to understand about the argument. Those in power have always justified their rules by what's supposedly the natural order of things. Communists are sometimes guilty of this too, although they'll frame the concept differently.

[Black Sheep]

It's not really an argument so much as an attempt to stifle discussion and shut you up. It's a thought-terminating cliche, so to speak, much like when a kid asks his mom why he has to eat his supper before he can eat pie for dessert, and she just tells him "because you just have to."
Exactlum.

I speak latin.

[Pavlov's House Party]

there are certainly some psychological behaviours that are present in almost all humans due to evolutionary experiences like fear, emotions, etc. my biggest problem with the "human nature" argument is that it disregards what human nature actually is; homo sapiens are a social animal that lives in groups, so "human nature" as some sort of justification for greed and inequity disregards the fact that man is an animal that must cooperate with others to survive; imagine how long a wolf would live if it separated itself from its pack because of want for more personal gain compared with that of a wolf cooperating in a pack. it's basically evolutionarily counter intuitive for a social animal to be self centered by nature; if anything, human nature is the ability to cooperate and to socialize. kind of like how when domesticated dogs get released into the wild they form packs without ever having experienced social organization like that before.

but yeah, i don't think i've ever heard anyone who actually knows about history, psychology, anthropology etc. put forward a human nature argument against communism. it's a fall back position for those who have no idea what they're talking about.

[Sasha]

Read "a time of empathy" by frans de waal and slap idiots who say that "humans are naturally selfish and greedy" crap around with the facts who are indeed like pavlov layed out above.

[Black Sheep]

Also you can watch Zeitgeist - Moving forward.

The first part is a complete destruction of the human nature argument.