Got Juche on my mind?

[cowslayer]

What exactly is Juche? Is there a specific guideline stating what they believe in and hope to achieve?


So far all I really get is "the Juche Idea, that identifies the Korean masses as the masters of the country's development."

Could anyone elaborate?

Also what is its relation to Maoism?

[Obs]

Juche isn't an ideology per se, despite what some seem to believe. It's more a policy pursued by the DPRK with the purpose of ensuring ecnomic independence for Korea. This includes refusing to rely on foreign aid or imports, but rather being able to produce necessities within the DPRK. I'm not sure if it's related to Maoism since I'm not particularly well-versed in Maoist theory, but since the DPRK sided with the Soviet Union duing the Sino-Soviet split I'm doubtful Maoism has a lot to do with it.

[wunderbar]

An extremely nationalistic, personality-cult led form of socialism with only a handful of decent views, mainly anti-imperialism. With the family-line leadership, it's closer to absolute monarchy rather than socialism, but with the military-first Songun policy, it's probably closer to fascism.

If you're exploring Juche as a possible socialist ideology, consider that the writings of Marx have not been available or even taught in North Korea since the 1970s and that all references to communism have been removed from North Korea's constitution.

[Dimentio]

What exactly is Juche? Is there a specific guideline stating what they believe in and hope to achieve?


So far all I really get is "the Juche Idea, that identifies the Korean masses as the masters of the country's development."

Could anyone elaborate?

Also what is its relation to Maoism?

"Korean National Socialism".

And the DPRK is also dependent on aid from their mortal enemy to the south.

[Gears]

Yeah I would definitely steer clear of Juche ideas. Sounds like pretty much National Socialism except with forced collectivization.

Although I would also like to know its relationship to Maoism.

[Gears]

Yes this looks like Korean National Socialism infused with much forced collectivisiation.


However I would like to know the relationship between Maoism and Juche, as well as the relations between North Korea under Kim il Sung and Maoist China.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Juche isn't an ideology per se, despite what some seem to believe. It's more a policy pursued by the DPRK with the purpose of ensuring ecnomic independence for Korea. This includes refusing to rely on foreign aid or imports, but rather being able to produce necessities within the DPRK. I'm not sure if it's related to Maoism since I'm not particularly well-versed in Maoist theory, but since the DPRK sided with the Soviet Union duing the Sino-Soviet split I'm doubtful Maoism has a lot to do with it.

It certainly sounds like an ideology, from how Kim describes it:


The Juche idea is the precious fruit of the leader's profound, widespread ideological and theoretical activities, and its creation is the most brilliant of his revolutionary achievements.

http://www1.korea-np.co.jp/pk/062nd_issue/98092410.htm


The Juche idea is the revolutionary idea, the socialist ideology which our people must acquire.

http://www.korea-dpr.com/lib/101.pdf (page 11)

[mosfeld]

You should contact Oblisk (http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6159&sid=7db04847f86ec7d4ead9ab1b45d1ca7c) on Soviet-Empire. He's a hardcore Juche type and can answer all of your questions about Juche and the DPRK. You could also just search through his posts.

[Black Sheep]

Just steer clear of that mutated abomination of marxism.

Move along, nothing to see here.

[PhoenixAsh]

Its definately a form of corporationism.

Its a secular ideology which strives towards complete economic and national independence and self-reliance by economic and national consciousnes. Meaning economic cooperation, participation and production from the three classes of the population (workers, farmers and intelectuals) aimed towards the advancement of the nation and state...and based on the model of the Korean national identity and national pride from which eventually international solidarity is created.

Its efects go beyond mere economic policy and encompasses every aspect of life, including policies and interaction with other countries.

[Obs]

Its definately a form of corporationism.

Its a secular ideology which strives towards complete economic and national independence and self-reliance by economic and national consciousnes. Meaning economic cooperation, participation and production from the three classes of the population (workers, farmers and intelectuals) aimed towards the advancement of the nation and state...and based on the model of the Korean national identity and national pride from which eventually international solidarity is created.

Its efects go beyond mere economic policy and encompasses every aspect of life, including policies and interaction with other countries.
Sigh. Let's take this step by step.

1) Corporatism (which you mislabel as "corporationism") is a form of capitalism.

2) Capitalism requires a bourgeoisie.

3) You admit that there is no true bourgeoisie in the DPRK.

Therefore, not only you contradict yourself halfway through your post, you actually manage to admit that the DPRK is not capitalist. Well done.

[PhoenixAsh]

Sigh. Let's take this step by step.

1) Corporatism (which you mislabel as "corporationism") is a form of capitalism.

2) Capitalism requires a bourgeoisie.

3) You admit that there is no true bourgeoisie in the DPRK.

Therefore, not only you contradict yourself halfway through your post, you actually manage to admit that the DPRK is not capitalist. Well done.

Sigh...corporatism is not capitalism....

Its a social and economic model in which legislative power is delegated to elected committees who represent economic, intelectual, agricultural, industrial professions working together as the governing bodies of the state.

Good try though....

[Dimentio]

And yet, "self sufficiency" is an essential part of the North Korean ideology. Ironic no?

Definetly. But it is like Tea Partiers living on social security.

[Obs]

Sigh...corporatism is not capitalism....

Its a social and economic model in which legislative power is delegated to elected committees who represent economic, intelectual, agricultural, industrial professions working together as the governing bodies of the state.

Good try though....
You're excessively talented at inventing definitions for words.

[PhoenixAsh]

You're excessively talented at inventing definitions for words.


Perhaps you should stop smoking pot and look it up....instead of making an idiot of yourself.

In fact corporatism has been utilized by many systems across the political spectrum...facism, socialism (or espoused socialism), social democracy, authoritarianism, statism and absolutism and acros the religous spectrum ranging from christianity to buddhism.

Yes,...there is a "capitalist" form corporatism, just like there is a "socialist" form of corporatism...but corporatism does NOT equate capitalism nor socialism and does not need a defined burgeoisie class to function.


So thank you for playing...but fail.

[Obs]

Perhaps you should stop smoking pot
Nope.


In fact corporatism has been utilized by many systems across the political spectrum...facism, socialism (or espoused socialism), social democracy, authoritarianism, statism and absolutism and acros the religous spectrum ranging from christianity to buddhism.
Good work quoting Wikipedia directly. Now, here's what you wrote just before:


Sigh...corporatism is not capitalism....

Its a social and economic model in which legislative power is delegated to elected committees who represent economic, intelectual, agricultural, industrial professions working together as the governing bodies of the state.

So far you have managed, with the help of the first few paragraphs of a Wikipedia article and the contents of your ass from which you evidently pull your political theory, to invent a social and economic model which can be implemented in any mode of production, delegates power to elected officials, and is still compatible with undemocratic forms of government such as fascism. You don't see at all where you're going wrong with this?

Edit: You also realise that for your definition of corporatism to work, the DPRK would have to be a democracy to fall underneath it, right?

[L.A.P.]

Sigh. Let's take this step by step.
3) You admit that there is no true bourgeoisie in the DPRK.

But there is.


you actually manage to admit that the DPRK is not capitalist.

It is capitalist though, just a twisted form of state capitalism. If North Korea is what socialism looks like then I'm going to register on Mises.


Perhaps you should stop smoking pot and look it up....instead of making an idiot of yourself.

What a complete tool.

[PhoenixAsh]

Nope.

Good work quoting Wikipedia directly. Now, here's what you wrote just before:

So far you have managed, with the help of the first few paragraphs of a Wikipedia article and the contents of your ass from which you evidently pull your political theory, to invent a social and economic model which can be implemented in any mode of production, delegates power to elected officials, and is still compatible with undemocratic forms of government such as fascism. You don't see at all where you're going wrong with this?

Edit: You also realise that for your definition of corporatism to work, the DPRK would have to be a democracy to fall underneath it, right?

For all your high horsed rethorics you have yet failed to produce a counter definition....

Democracy? Nope...if you would have read what I stated it would not.

But hey...not only have you definately proven and continue to prove that you have no clue what corporatism is you are also continuously proving yourself to have trouble reading.

[PhoenixAsh]

What a complete tool.

Yes...I think Obs is a completel tool aswel.

Back to the content of that statement....

Some people should simply not smoke pot because they obviously can not process it and that may lead to remarks like:



Burn the prick for all I care - and his wife and his kids and his pet dog and its puppies too.


O...in case you have failed to notice. Obs is only arguing against me because he has a personal grudge because I called him out on that one. ;)



I also agree with you on the rest of your post.