Can someone explain Anarchy for me?

[commieboy]

All i hear are from these fuckers who just want to piss of their parents "Whats anarchy?"
"No laws man...you can kill someone, and you cant get in trouble...."
then i ask a teacher "Can you explain anarchy for me?"
"Its just a synonim for chaos, and mass confusion"

So can anyone here please explain it to me...i think i have an idea...like individual communities...no federal gov. to control them, but its a total democracy and everyone works for the good of the community. Am i close?

[truthaddict11]

Anarchist FAQs (http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html)
Anarchy Archives (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/index.html)

also take a look at comrade james' sticky in theory
Anarchism For Dummies (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=6421)

[commieboy]

thank you comrade

[Don't Change Your Name]

In simple words you can say that Anarchism is the belief that the state should be abolished and replaced by a society where its members cooperate democratically to fulfill their needs. That way we will create a society without corruption, power abuses, lack of democracy, bureaucracy, and opression, and without classes and discrimination.

[Morpheus]

So can anyone here please explain it to me...i think i have an idea...like individual communities...no federal gov. to control them, but its a total democracy and everyone works for the good of the community. Am i close?

Yes. Anarchism is the belief in the abolition of all forms of hierarchical authority. This includes capitalism, the state, patriarchy and white supremacy. Society should be organized by voluntary non-hierarchical associations instead of authoritarian organizations like states and corporations. Anarchists differ from orthodox Marxists in that we reject the need for a "dictatorship of the proletariat." Revolutionary Anarchists say that the revolution should simultaniously abolish both capitalism and the state; we do not need to set up a dictatorship after the revolution.

It has nothing to do with choas. That is a common smear used to discredit anarchism; it's easier to misrepresent anarchism than to refute it. Ask any of the people who claim anarchism is synonim for choas if they've every bothered to read the classics of anarchist theory (Kropotkin, Bakunin, Goldman, Bookchin, etc.) and 99.9% will say no (the other .1% are usually lying). The same nonsense used to be said about democracy and republics. A few centuries ago, when Monarchies ruled the western world, it was thought that order required a strong King (or Queen); an elected government would lead to complete choas. Other common misrepresentations of anarchism is the idea that all anarchists are opposed to organization and that anarchists go around throwing bombs at innocent people for no reason. There is probably more rubbish and misrepresentation said about anarchism than any other social philosophy.

In addition to the websites linked to earlier, you might check out http://www.anarchism.ws and http://flag.blackened.net

[Ctisphonics]

I've read alittle about Anarchy, but not much, most of the books on the net I find in PDF seem to be, well, Chaotic. They don't start on page one, it more like 27, then 8, 29, 10, 31, 12, 7, 14, 9, 16, ect. Then after you manage to read it, you discover a few pages are missing.

Anarchist 99?

Anyway, what you just described is pretty much America on the Community level, then you have in cities and counties government dedicated to certain tasks, on the state level governemnt didicated to larger tasks, then the National level dedicated to more complex issues. We deligate power here in the US on tough issues to advoid territorial squabbles that people can't usually solve themselves (in my state we actually call the lower house of the state congress the House of Delegates instead of Represenatives.)

I guess I can't be a Anarchist if I support this system, it seems logical to me, plus I'm not against someone making money if their selling a product I want. I'm poor (and when I say that, I mean I POOR, not some middleclass person whinning 'I can't afford to by expensive cloths at the Gap like my firends every week and afford my Car payments and huge apartment all at the same time ', I mean dirt ass poor, gotta use a friends computer to get on the net, got no cable or medical insurance poor, crappy job where I feel I'm drowning poor), but know I can move up in society if I really wanted to, others I know have, though few started as low as I have (actually in the Negatives, believe it or not).

I know many members of my local governemnt, as well as gaining contacts in state and national government. They don't seem so diffrent from me or others I know, thier jobs are necessary for the most part for the progression of the common good. We're pulling through it all, a girl on PMS with a Shotgun and a Copy of Guerilla Warfare isn't going to make the situation any better, nor do I see having state ownership of the factories is going to help: I've read Perestroika, NOT IMPRESSED. I can just imagine how well it would go over in the US, party invest all that money in Pog factories or some other Fad, then it goes under, and become a big money drain. No incentives, no apparent freedom of R&D labs (Communism appears for the most part as if it would just kill Yankee Ingenuity, Edison or Tesla might get funding, but will Bob down the street get it? Will Janice be allowed to keep her shed where whe mass produces baskets, or Mike his patent to his new efficient train engine he's been thinking of for the last ten years?)

How will Yankee Ingenuity function under Anarchy? Do you see the problem of mine above? I'm serious about this. I never understood the logic of Communism, though I can ubnderstand where their comming from. Not the same with Anarchy.

[The Feral Underclass]

I've read a little about Anarchy, but not much, most of the books on the net I find in PDF seem to be, well, Chaotic. They don't start on page one, it more like 27, then 8, 29, 10, 31, 12, 7, 14, 9, 16, ect. Then after you manage to read it, you discover a few pages are missing.

Go to a library and hire a book.

Anyway, what you just described is pretty much America on the Community level, then you have in cities and counties government dedicated to certain tasks, on the state level governemnt didicated to larger tasks,

They are not the same in any respect. It is not simply about groups of people dealing with vareying degrees of difficult tasks, Anarchism is about freedom. Economically and mentally.

Society in America and for most parts of the world is based on individuals being able to make as much money as possible by exploiting as many people as necessary. Capitalism is built on this principle. That if one person has a really good idea then they can build a factory and then hire other people to make the factory work, so they can get rich. Of course many people say this is fair. But...

When you look at society closer you will see that the inbalancies that exist are pheonominal. A factory boss employs a thousand workers and pays them all $5 for every hour they work. They each produce a product every hour that can then be sold for $50. Ten times the amount the worker was paid for making it. This money then goes to the factory boss, who, in most cases, if not all, sits on his ass all day smoking cigars and playing golf (obviously not on his ass - it wouldnt work). The worker then takes this $5 and then has to use it to buy food, pay rent, pay taxes, pay for transport, kids, health etc etc and by the time she has finished she has 50 cents. If she saved up enough she might be able to buy a pair of shoes. Then after she has given out all her money back to the state so she can have the basics in order to suvive she goes back to the factory and sells another hour of labour so she can give it all out again, all the time the facdtory boss gets richer and richer from this poor womens work. Times this situation by the other 999 people who work there and you have a very rich boss and many poor people. It is called exploitation, and it is wrong.

Look at the logic...a thousand people are using their time to make something which they couldnt even afford so one man can get rich from simply having a good idea....come on!

So when I say mental and economic freedom I mean people realising this fact, becoming conscious of themselves, changing society and then being free from having to sell their labour for $5 an hour for some prick. Anarchism is about providing for every human being on earth. Impossible everyone says. But why...all it takes is simple organization. Ok, so you might not be able to buy a jumper from gap, or a pair of nike shoes, but whopcares. Is that really what life is about? I hope not.

then the National level dedicated to more complex issues. We deligate power here in the US on tough issues to advoid territorial squabbles that people can't usually solve themselves (in my state we actually call the lower house of the state congress the House of Delegates instead of Represenatives.)

as for these complex issues. They only exists because of the illogicness (?) of capitalism. Capitalism constently attempts to solve problems within itself, which only creates more problems. There are certain guidlines in order for capitalism to continue to function and if you break out of this guidlines or if the slightest thing goes wrong within it, you have chaos, economies callapse and the world is plunged into turmoil. (1929, Wall street). So governments and economists constantly are trying to keep these disastors from happening, constantly tyrying to find harmony, but in order to do it must invent solutions which lead to other problems and by the time they've finished they have a whole stack of complex issues which no one can solve.....you understand? :huh:

Anarchism is about realising this stupidity and getting rid of it and creatng something which isnt as illogical and is able to solve problems quickly and decisivly. In the UK for example the NHS is collapsing. You look at society and see these rich people. Logic would dictate that you take from the rich people who have lots of money and give it to the NHS so we can all have a free health service. But no, the bourgeois try and solve it by keeping in the paramoters of capitalism and allowing those rich people to get rich and take it from the enviormonet budget which then creates problems with the enviroment, so they try and lower gas emissions which is again logical, but they cant do that because the capitalist economy will suffer...it goes on, in this crazy chaotic way killing people and destroying our planet. Anarchism is about stopping this, and creating a society where these problems dont exist. All it takes is for people to take responisbility and organize it.

I guess I can't be a Anarchist if I support this system, it seems logical to me, plus I'm not against someone making money if their selling a product I want.

No, I suppose your not...but it dosnt mean you cant be. But the point is, why do we need to sell products. Why does someone have to spend their time on making a pair of shoes for you to buy at a ridiculas price so the boss can get rich. If you need a pair of shoes then we can organize society to provide you with one. You dont have to buy them....


Edison or Tesla might get funding, but will Bob down the street get it? Will Janice be allowed to keep her shed where whe mass produces baskets, or Mike his patent to his new efficient train engine he's been thinking of for the last ten years?)

Funding for what? If Edison and Tesla had a project they wanted to start, they could just start it. As long as they contributed to the socially necessary work, (which may only account for four hours a week) they could do what ever they wanted. The same with Bob. If you ask Janice why she makes these baskets she will tell you "to buy food". In anarchist society food would be provided for. As long as people contributed to society., so she wouldnt need to make baskets. She could read a book, paint a picture, enjoy her seventy years on the planet. As for Mike...why would he want to make money from something that could benifit all human beings. No he wouldnt be able to have a patent. Under Anarchism Mike would share his knowledge with the world and make peoples lives better.

How will Yankee Ingenuity function under Anarchy?

It wont!

I never understood the logic of Communism, though I can ubnderstand where their comming from. Not the same with Anarchy.

The conclusion of Communism is Anarchy. The only difference between the two is how you get there. You should read more. :ph34r:

[Blackberry]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2003, 12:17 PM
I've read alittle about Anarchy, but not much, most of the books on the net I find in PDF seem to be, well, Chaotic. They don't start on page one, it more like 27, then 8, 29, 10, 31, 12, 7, 14, 9, 16, ect. Then after you manage to read it, you discover a few pages are missing.

http://www.anarchist-action.org/sections/a...anarchism/books (http://www.anarchist-action.org/sections/anarchism/books) <--- Word processor format.

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/ <--- Online format. Just click on a person and then click on the &#39;collected works&#39; link.

[Ctisphonics]

Okay, I&#39;ll read a few of those works, though I got a train of other stuff I&#39;m trying to swallow first.

Do you know how a R&D lab is organized? Incentives work? Why people tend to invent in the first place. The logistics in getting the supplies. Oftentime you need a financial backer. This simple re-organization of society to meet some kind of need you talked about, like the shoes, need better explaining. It doesn&#39;t seem in my head so simple to me for a nation with complex needs and desires- Is this going to involve the regulation of the marxets to curb desires and channel it into more &#39;accepted Orthodox&#39; products, like those oversize Chinese suits?

Supply? Where are the supplies going to come from. Locally? What about things hard to manifacture, like specialized gears or computer softwear. What about certain chemicals needed for productions. What about the logistics in shipping?

Workforce? Migrant workers like Carpenters have to travel great distances. How will they and like trades function in a anarchist society?

Hazards? How will the people be organized to advoid hazardous situations in the workplace or in society? Who will be making the split-section decisions? How will people Aragate/delegate this Authority.

Natural Disastors/War? How will this leaderless society plan to fight against shifting winds during fire season in forest, or droughts, virus outbreaks, chemical spills, or any other accident. How will society put down the jealous communist with thier macine guns and machetes who sabatoge everything in site trying to destroy our perfected system? How will we repulse foreign enemies (be they Anarchist or not) when the shit hits the fan in thier territory and need supplies, or new territory?

Why get rid of the State Structure? You assume automatically the Capitalist made it. Perhaps for certain states, but not mine. Also, you assume those are automatically against the people......I see little evidence for this where I live.

Need better explaining. Can you abstract the theoretics of how you society would be formed and will function under the friction of ever changing perceptions and desires? Something short and concise, straight to the point like as with The Prince. I won&#39;t support a cause unless I think it at least has a chance of working, and so far, I think Communism has a better chance, and that&#39;s not saying much&#33;

[The Feral Underclass]

oh...your an idiot....i didnt realise....i want bother wasting my time then :ph34r:

[Ctisphonics]

I&#39;m a idiot? I spent years thinking about this stuff, doing odd jobs for an assortment of bussinesses, getting into debates while working with the owners and managers of several different fields trying to absorb their knowledge, making sense of my community and how it functioned- it&#39;s streanghts and weakness- fundamental mechanics of social interaction and perception. I delievered papers to the city building as a kid too, getting to get to know each person there and their jobs in intimate detail, as well as the community centers and local relief groups. Then after that spent the last couple of years making contacts out of my city in the county and state government, trying to obsorb all thier perspectives and understanding how it worked. Then I moved on to a study of statecraft, volunteer work, strategy (to a level you most likly will never reach) of all types, both martial and economic, ect.

Shit has a tendency to propell itself into the fan even when things in human society are equitable; it&#39;s nature&#39;s hsing, it doesn&#39;t move to suit the needs or desires of human society, humans must work against it through exploitation of thier&#39;s to reap any profit. I asked you a series of VERY SIMPLE QUESTIONS DEALING WITH VERY LIKELY SENERIOS THE HAPPEN QUITE OFTEN ALL OVER THE WORLD, NO MATTER WHAT SYSTEM&#33; I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW YOUR SYSTEMS GOING TO WORK TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS WHEN THEY ARISE&#33;

At least Communism in it&#39;s early stages have theoretically a state structure able to respond to these issues. The Soviets screwed up big time (Ex: Aral Sea;Ex 2: Worthless Technology Research since access to funds was state controlled, short sighted bureaucracy stiffled any new advances from independant thinkers unable to break thru), but at least they could be depended upon to react to disastrors, even if the plans inacted were often shortsighted&#33;&#33;&#33;

Unless you can explain how this basic, crucial part of progerssive evolution- Adaptation, will work in Anarchy- how it will function under duress, then you&#39;ll never convince me otherwise that it&#39;s an insane ideology. I can be VERY persuasive, I highly recommend you convince me to get unboard with you or I&#39;ll use my mental powers against you cause by publishing counter literature in the future. So far, all I can see in Anarchy is that it provides kids with something other than a curseword to spraypaint on a wall- a big capital @ on a wall that some worker&#39;s going to have to scrub off.