Soft-touch stalinist here

[ZenStalinist]

Hi, I am a stalinist. A Stalinist in the GDR sense, not in the stalin sense. I think essentially stalinism is a good system, whereas stalin was too paranoid as a politician, though he meant well. Thefefore I call myself a soft-touch stalinist. I am against revisionism, yet Marx said Unite, and Unite we will even if it mean bringing the kruschevites and maybe trotskyites into the picture. And we don't have to purge people to get rid of their power. I think the GDR is an example of Stalinist as it SHOULD be. Or Hoxha's albania.

Peace and Unity!

[Loknar]

Yep, it will be Communisms downfall. Each will either follow Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, marx ect.. A house divided cannot stand.

[suffianr]

Hello, ZenStalinist, please elaborate a little more by what you mean by:


A Stalinist in the GDR sense, not in the stalin sense.

Cheers.

[IHP]

While you're at it, what is the 'Zen' element of your Stalinism? It seems a little ironic to me.

--IHP

[Desert Fox]

Different leaders result in diff groups and that will result like your downfal like Loknar said :P

[ZenStalinist]

'ZenStalinist' comes from the 'Zen Stalinist Manifesto', a comedy piece by Stalinist punk singer, commedian and renaissance musician 'Attila the Stockbroker' - www.attilathestockbroker.com

He is well known in the UK communist scene, and also is known in Germany. :D

I mean in the GDR sense as I believe in the economic side of Stalinism, but I am against stalin for his psychopathy. I think the GDR shows Stalinism after the dictatorship of the proletariat, as the GDR was a multiparty system. I believe we must unite with other communists and socialists, provided they are not watered down capitalists (eg. Social democrats).

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2003, 11:27 AM
'ZenStalinist' comes from the 'Zen Stalinist Manifesto', a comedy piece by Stalinist punk singer, commedian and renaissance musician 'Attila the Stockbroker' - www.attilathestockbroker.com

He is well known in the UK communist scene, and also is known in Germany. :D

I mean in the GDR sense as I believe in the economic side of Stalinism, but I am against stalin for his psychopathy. I think the GDR shows Stalinism after the dictatorship of the proletariat, as the GDR was a multiparty system. I believe we must unite with other communists and socialists, provided they are not watered down capitalists (eg. Social democrats).
you mean gdp.


what mental disorder did stalin suffer from anyway?

[ZenStalinist]

Stalin suffered from extreme paranioa, so it is reckoned.

And no, I mean the GDR. German Democratic Republic (East Germany) :D

[革命者]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2003, 01:40 PM
Stalin suffered from extreme paranioa, so it is reckoned.

And no, I mean the GDR. German Democratic Republic (East Germany) :D
aaaahh, the DDR! :lol:

[Unrelenting Steve]

Economic Left/Right: -4.50
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.21

Im somewhere between Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama. lol.

[Guest1]

Steve? wrong thread man!

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

Originally posted by Unrelenting [email protected] 14 2003, 03:15 PM
Economic Left/Right: -4.50
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.21

Im somewhere between Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama. lol.
LOL, mild change of subject, perhaps you wanted the political compass thread m8! Though this whole thread seems confused to b honest, i think most people in here (that are leftists) agree on the fundementals, like free education and health care for all, its just cos we nit pick!

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by æ+Sep 14 2003, 11:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (æ @ Sep 14 2003, 11:57 AM)
[email protected] 14 2003, 01:40 PM
Stalin suffered from extreme paranioa, so it is reckoned.

And no, I mean the GDR. German Democratic Republic (East Germany) :D
aaaahh, the DDR&#33; :lol: [/b]
Do you DDR too ?

[ComradeJunichi]

Welcome Zen Stalinist, I like your ideas. They&#39;re interesting.

http://www.socialistfront.org/forum

[Babylon5 Crusade]

So do you support North Korea&#39;s evil regime?

[Jesus Christ]

wow Babylon ure just asking for it lol

[Babylon5 Crusade]

Asking for what? He likes Stalin. Kim Chong-il is a mini-Stalin with bad hair.

[the SovieT]

welcome to the board zenstalinist...

i actually knew you before from politicsforum.org...

but welcome anyways....

[ZenStalinist]

Yeah, that&#39;s right... I&#39;m from pofo. Kim Jong Il&#39;s hair is better than Stalin&#39;s. As for support, I am a member of the Korean Friendship Association, though I don&#39;t agree with certain parts of the North Korean political policy. But its still a hundred times better than capitalism&#33; Peace out..

[Babylon5 Crusade]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2003, 08:08 PM
Yeah, that&#39;s right... I&#39;m from pofo. Kim Jong Il&#39;s hair is better than Stalin&#39;s. As for support, I am a member of the Korean Friendship Association, though I don&#39;t agree with certain parts of the North Korean political policy. But its still a hundred times better than capitalism&#33; Peace out..
So you support work camps and the stavation of people in the the North?

[Xvall]

You make is sound like the North Korean government is intentionally starving it&#39;s people. Okay, I know they&#39;re pretty strict and all that, but I doubt they are stupid enough to starve their population for the hell of it. It&#39;s really annoying when you regard things like famines as intentional and deliberate actions taken out by their respective governments.

[ZenStalinist]

The Government of the DPRK is not deliberately starving its people. As of the &#39;95 famine, you have to ask the question: If not all the population can be given the substinence, then which ones deserve it the most?
Somehow i don&#39;t think prisoners are the most deservant. I think that ultimately, if good guys starved and prisoners were fed, people would commit crimes to get into prison... then we&#39;d have a problem ;)
However, the famine is pretty much drawn to an end by now, and food is going into the prisons at last :D

BTW, I like the George W. Bush Smilies: :huh: :unsure: I&#39;ve seen those looks on him so many times :lol:

[Babylon5 Crusade]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 12:20 PM
The Government of the DPRK is not deliberately starving its people. As of the &#39;95 famine, you have to ask the question: If not all the population can be given the substinence, then which ones deserve it the most?
Somehow i don&#39;t think prisoners are the most deservant. I think that ultimately, if good guys starved and prisoners were fed, people would commit crimes to get into prison... then we&#39;d have a problem ;)
However, the famine is pretty much drawn to an end by now, and food is going into the prisons at last :D

BTW, I like the George W. Bush Smilies: :huh: :unsure: I&#39;ve seen those looks on him so many times :lol:
You know thats bull shit right? The avarage citzen only gets about a bowl of Rice a day while the Military and him gets full cource dinners.

Or just like in the Book "Animal Farm"

"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." I guess you all believe in that.

[commie kg]

Originally posted by Babylon5 Crusade+Sep 18 2003, 10:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Babylon5 Crusade @ Sep 18 2003, 10:33 AM)
[email protected] 18 2003, 12:20 PM
The Government of the DPRK is not deliberately starving its people. As of the &#39;95 famine, you have to ask the question: If not all the population can be given the substinence, then which ones deserve it the most?
Somehow i don&#39;t think prisoners are the most deservant. I think that ultimately, if good guys starved and prisoners were fed, people would commit crimes to get into prison... then we&#39;d have a problem ;)
However, the famine is pretty much drawn to an end by now, and food is going into the prisons at last :D

BTW, I like the George W. Bush Smilies: :huh: :unsure: I&#39;ve seen those looks on him so many times :lol:
You know thats bull shit right? The avarage citzen only gets about a bowl of Rice a day while the Military and him gets full cource dinners.

Or just like in the Book "Animal Farm"

"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." I guess you all believe in that. [/b]
Orwell was a socialist, you know. You can&#39;t hide behind Animal Farm, it wasn&#39;t even that good of a book.

[Xvall]

I think Animal Farm was a good book. Anyways, Orwell was indeed a socialist, and we do not think that anyone is more equal than others.

[the SovieT]

Orwell was not a socialist..

he was a ultra leftist agitator...


remember his last action..
REMEMBER HIS LAST FUCKING ACTION AGAINST THE MOVEMENT&#33;(i do not mean the publication of any of his works.. but the "list" he made before he died.. now you make your own research and find out the real asshole Orwell was...)

[commie kg]

SovieT, when I say socialist, I mean "Democratic Socialist." or as Marx called it "bourgeois socialism," which is basically what it is.

[Urban Rubble]

Just because Orwell was an asshole and a snitch does not mean he wasn&#39;t a Socialist. Yes, so he was a dirtbag, there have been many communist dirtbags. Get over it.

Animal Farm was a good book, but it&#39;s not like it was an epic novel. I read the thing in one day at work, and I work construction. I had it in my back pocket and would pull it out for like 3 minutes at a time. That&#39;s how short it is. I love it though, too bad most people who read it just think it&#39;s a cute story about Animals.

Anyway, it&#39;s nice to see a Stalinist on here who doesn&#39;t hold the guy in God like status. Welcome to the board.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Doe that mean you think I hold Stalin to "god-like" status comrade Rubble?

[elijahcraig]

I love it though, too bad most people who read it just think it&#39;s a cute story about Animals.

If that’s true, it is a GOOD thing.

[redstar2000]

It&#39;s quite rare, actually, to meet an admirer of the GDR.

What did you like about it? What do you think they did "better" than other socialist bloc countries?

As far as "unity" goes, I&#39;m afraid that&#39;s a "lost cause" for the most part. Of course, we can always work together against U.S. imperialism...but even then, Leninist cadre groups have often proven disruptive and counter-productive. Granted that various Trotskyist groups have been the worst offenders, the non-Trotskyists have often been just as bad.

Non-Leninists -- communist and anarchist -- simply don&#39;t want the kind of socialist "transition" that Leninists want...and see no reason to fight for that.

We don&#39;t need a new boss; we already have one.

As to Orwell, I know of nothing he wrote after Homage to Catalonia that could be considered "pro-socialist" in any sense. Animal Farm and 1984 are simply anti-Stalinist polemics...and not very well-written ones at that. The "sub-text" of both of those works is really beware of revolutionary change...if you succeed, you&#39;ll land in the shit for sure.

Not very encouraging.

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U.S. GET OUT OF IRAQ NOW&#33;
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The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.sawu.org/redstar2000)
A site about communist ideas

[elijahcraig]

RS, seriously; what’s with all the quotes and bold on every post?

[redstar2000]

The use of bold text is to emphasize a word or phrase as being central to the point I am trying to make.

Quotation marks have multiple uses. Often I&#39;ll use them in an ironic sense; e.g., "democratic" centralism. Sometimes I use them to set off a word or phrase that I would not normally use; e.g., the sheep-herder dreams of becoming a "great leader".

Perhaps I learned it from "comrade" Lenin...who was very much a master of bold text and ironic quotation marks...or so I remember. Like many, I read a lot of Lenin when I was young.

Also, I think a little variation in a post is a good way to get and keep the reader&#39;s attention...always presuming that you have something interesting to say in the first place.

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___________________________

U.S. GET OUT OF IRAQ NOW&#33;
___________________________

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.sawu.org/redstar2000)
A site about communist ideas

[Urban Rubble]

Doe that mean you think I hold Stalin to "god-like" status comrade Rubble?

No, I just think you want to make sweet love to him. Nah, just kidding RAF, you know I hold a high opinion of you. I just think there are alot of little kiddies on here who think Stalin is some kind of superhero.


If that’s true, it is a GOOD thing.

What does that mean ?

[elijahcraig]

I don’t want the satire to set in in its “real meaning”. It merely slanders communism with foundationless drivel.

[elijahcraig]

BTW, good response RedStar. The tactics you use to mime little nuggets into your cornwheel.

[Urban Rubble]

Animal Farm wasn&#39;t anti-Communist you fucking moron, it is anti-totalitarianism, just like 1984.

[Saint-Just]

It is anti-communist for a Stalinist. Animal farm and 1984 are anti-Stalinist polemics as redstar2000 said. I particularly enjoyed some aspects of 1984 as an example of a progressive society and found the most enjoyable aspect of the book to be the demise of the degenerate-promiscuous dim-wits Winston and Julia. I also found their depiction to be fitting.

The proper term &#39;Communist&#39; as seen throughout the height of Communist power is of the Stalinist-type Comintern member communists all over the world. As such I think it is fitting to say Animal Farm and 1984 are anti-communist.

You are right to a large extent that it was anti-totalitarian. Totalitarian in its strict sense is a society where state is almost indistinguishable from government. A Leninist society is such so as a result it inevitably criticies communism. Although totalitarian does have other more negative connotations.

[Babylon5 Crusade]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 19 2003, 05:01 PM
Animal Farm wasn&#39;t anti-Communist you fucking moron, it is anti-totalitarianism, just like 1984.
Napoleon- Stalin
Snowball- Trotsky
Old Major- Karl Marx
Boxer- symbolizes the downtrodden peasants who are lied to and mistreated by political figures out for personal gain
Mollie- represents the fickle class of nobles who fled Russia after the Revolution
Benjamin- represents the human tendency toward cynicism, apathy, and the belief that "things will never change".
Moses- symbolizes organized religion in general, and the Russian Orthodox Church more specifically
Farmer Jones- symbolizes corrupt and fatally-flawed governments that create societies ripe for Revolution
Farmer Frederick- Nazi Germany
Farmer Pilkington- British

[Som]

Originally posted by Babylon5 Crusade+Sep 19 2003, 09:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Babylon5 Crusade @ Sep 19 2003, 09:24 PM)
Urban [email protected] 19 2003, 05:01 PM
Animal Farm wasn&#39;t anti-Communist you fucking moron, it is anti-totalitarianism, just like 1984.
Napoleon- Stalin
Snowball- Trotsky
Old Major- Karl Marx
Boxer- symbolizes the downtrodden peasants who are lied to and mistreated by political figures out for personal gain
Mollie- represents the fickle class of nobles who fled Russia after the Revolution
Benjamin- represents the human tendency toward cynicism, apathy, and the belief that "things will never change".
Moses- symbolizes organized religion in general, and the Russian Orthodox Church more specifically
Farmer Jones- symbolizes corrupt and fatally-flawed governments that create societies ripe for Revolution
Farmer Frederick- Nazi Germany
Farmer Pilkington- British [/b]
And?

Many communists think stalin and trotsky were bastards.

[Saint-Just]

It depends how you define Communist or communist.

Karl Marx was the beginnin of communism and communists. Communists are generally Marxists. Stalin and Trotsky both said they were Marxist-Leninists.

The term Communist (using a capital) usually refers to an official Communist Party or a Party Member. In the 20th century, Communists have often been of the Soviet-type and were in the massive majority of all who called themselves communists.

In terms of what George Orwell though, he was being anti-Bolshevik, anti-Leninist. Perhaps he was not necessarily being anti-Marxist.