The problem of motivation

[Milk Sheikh]

Religious people often allege that atheists would soon become disillusioned and lose all motivation. For instance, if everything ends with death, then why bother fighting for justice, equality etc? Nothing's gonna last.

Religious folks, on the other hand, have the hereafter to motivate them. Even if the hereafter is nonsense, it could still motivate them. A thing doesn't have to be logical to inspire you; even a nonsensical idea like God, hereafter etc. could give you a lot of strength and motivation.

I hope people can see where I am going with this. How are we, as atheists, to stay motivated?

[Kuppo Shakur]

Hope for a better existence for ourselves and our offspring.

[PhoenixAsh]

...well....we have the religious people we still have to bother and annoy ;-)

But seriously. Its a non-starter. the loss of motivation can not be proven but is alledged because religious people who make this claim can not immagine being self motivated. Because they can not immagine this it can not be disproven because its intrinsically linked to their believe that motivation can only be gained by faith in the divine spirit.... disproving this position disproves part of their faith in God...which can not be done.

But what we can counter argue is that the fact that we have an avarage of 75 years to go in this world...we could make it is nice as possible for ourselves and our children.

Its also counter intuitive to argue that since live is not going to last nothing is going to last long enough to make a difference for countles of people or argue that nothing matters. Because not mattering does not logically follow from not lasting.

I would like to reverse the argument....if this is not paradise and you have paradise waiting for you after death...then why stay here at all?

[Jimmie Higgins]

I don't know, the here and now seems a lot more immediate than the hereafter. I think the idea that this is it and time goes fast is pretty damn motivating.

[hatzel]

Hope for a better existence for ourselves and our offspring.

Stop quoting age-old religious Jewish ideas and get your own stuff! :cursing:

What I'm actually trying to say here is that the gross over-simplification in the OP is an issue. Last time I checked, we Jews hardly have anything to say about the world to come, the nature of the world to come, anything like that. The fact that there's a bit of a debate between those who think we go to heaven and those who think that we are reborn should be enough to suggest that we've hardly spent much time codifying the details of the afterlife :lol: Which is precisely why we're a lot more about that 'hope for a better existence for ourselves and our offspring'. Remember the whole synthesis of the thing, when a big voice in the sky said 'if you take these mitzvot, everybody's gonna totally hate you guys forever and ever and ever and ever and ever, but the Messiah will eventually come from amongst your descendants and there'll be all peace and loveliness and stuff' (not a direct quote...it's a somewhat liberal translation from the Hebrew :laugh:)...that alone suggests that the whole faith is based on the hope that great things will come to our offspring, and further delving into the faith should uncover countless examples of cases in which it is said 'it's good to do this, as it is to the benefit of your children'. Which is also why the Torah and the writings of the sages make little if any reference to the nature of the world to come, because we're not obsessed with all this talk of heaven that we'll never know anything about without going there, and if we've gone there, then we're not here. Therefore, everything about the nature of the afterlife (from a Jewish perspective) stands as mere speculation and conjecture by this or that rabbi throughout history, explaining how there can be such wildly differing speculations, such as the aforementioned distinction between heaven and rebirth. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to sit around complacent letting talk of the afterlife, of which I know nothing, affect my actions here on Earth! :)

Those who do, though...Christians, we might argue that the most religious and pious of all the Christians are the monks and the nuns, no? I...don't see them doing much to fight for justice and equality by secluding themselves on some island or out in the Egyptian desert or whatever it is they choose to do nowadays. Sure, they get motivation from thoughts of the afterlife, but really, it has nothing to do with this struggle for justice that you've drawn up...hence it's just a wild generalisation on your part. Yes, there are religious Christians who set up soup kitchens and give clothes to the poor and stuff like that, but to say that some vague hope in the afterlife motivates somebody to fight for justice is to ignore the nuances of approach, and the fact that not only is there more than one type of Christianity or Islam or what, but, could you believe it, there are even other religions! :scared: So it's just out-and-out BS. Yeah.

[Milk Sheikh]

Rabbi,

Could you simplify all this? I am not able to read it.:(

[Che a chara]

Religious people often allege that atheists would soon become disillusioned and lose all motivation. For instance, if everything ends with death, then why bother fighting for justice, equality etc? Nothing's gonna last.

Religious folks, on the other hand, have the hereafter to motivate them. Even if the hereafter is nonsense, it could still motivate them. A thing doesn't have to be logical to inspire you; even a nonsensical idea like God, hereafter etc. could give you a lot of strength and motivation.

I hope people can see where I am going with this. How are we, as atheists, to stay motivated?

Well atheists should be advocating to put your 'fate' and dedication into science to make life better now, in terms of research and advancement in technology that can provide a more sustainable, progressive and modern life which can contribute positively to the environment and biology study and also in terms of archeology which in all should motivate atheists to find the answers to the origin of man and the universe.

[Revolution starts with U]

He saying that fervor for the afterlife is largely a christian/muslim thing, not something the Jews tend to focus on. He's also saying that faith certainly didn't inspire monks to good works (unless you consider hiding in the desert good works).
Basically he's saying faith is a nice little thing some people do, but it has no effect on one's motivation for good.
... forgive me if I'm wrong. :lol:

[Astarte]

I find that atheistic people tend to be prone to depression. Not more depressed than your rank and file "religious person" but more depressed than someone who has experienced a certain level of spiritual enlightenment.

[ComradeMan]

He saying that fervor for the afterlife is largely a christian/muslim thing, not something the Jews tend to focus on. He's also saying that faith certainly didn't inspire monks to good works (unless you consider hiding in the desert good works).
Basically he's saying faith is a nice little thing some people do, but it has no effect on one's motivation for good.
... forgive me if I'm wrong. :lol:

I think you add to this how in Vedic religions the concept of "karma" also works in this life in order to determine your reincarnation or escape from reincarnation in the "next" life.

[Black Sheep]

The motive argument, both in Christian mythology and capitalist ideology is stupid.

[daleckian]

The motive argument, both in Christian mythology and capitalist ideology is stupid.

brilliant, intelligent analysis.

[Agent Ducky]

I don't know, the here and now seems a lot more immediate than the hereafter. I think the idea that this is it and time goes fast is pretty damn motivating.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. I suppose every atheist could have their own motivation reasons, but for me I think this would be the biggest driving force in motivation for atheists in general. Here and now. And obviously atheists aren't lacking in motivation, look at all the revolutionaries. I really don't see motivation as a problem really in terms of faith. The only time I worry about it is when religious people say "omg your life must be so scary with nothing to live for," and I can never think of what to say.

[Tim Finnegan]

The only time I worry about it is when religious people say "omg your life must be so scary with nothing to live for," and I can never think of what to say.
"Omg your life must be so empty, needing religion to give you purpose". ;)

[Agent Ducky]

That is a perfect response, comrade.

[Sosa]

I find that atheistic people tend to be prone to depression. Not more depressed than your rank and file "religious person" but more depressed than someone who has experienced a certain level of spiritual enlightenment.

Actually, If I remember correctly there was a study done about this that found that religious people are more prone to depression, believers suffer more anxiety because they are more worried about what God thinks of them, etc. I'll have to find this and link it.