Running in campus elections?

[RedSquare]

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience or thoughts about running for campus/student elections in colleges or universities to challenge the populist and self-interested (pro-capitalist) yuppies that (in my experience) seem to run things on this bodies.

From a practical point of view, how could one go about getting flyers and/or posters, and would it cost a lot to cover maybe a target audience of 4,000?

[OhYesIdid]

Yes, it would cost a lot if you didn't have the support of a large chunk of the electorate. Ask around campus, find out if there are other people that think like you. Although, your question is, of course, much deeper than that. The question of wether or not communists should participate in organized elections for the control of the burgueois state is an ideological mater that has split socialists for a long, long time. I'd recommend that you read up on it and make an informed desicion.

[hatzel]

The question of wether or not communists should participate in organized elections for the control of the burgueois state is an ideological mater that has split socialists for a long, long time

Of course there's a bit of a difference between the bourgeois state and, you know, student council thing. Not least because one of them actually has any power over anything :)

[¿Que?]

Of course there's a bit of a difference between the bourgeois state and, you know, student council thing. Not least because one of them actually has any power over anything :)
Basically what I was going to say. Student governments in college basically represent students by expressing what they think students want to the dean. However, when it comes down to actually making university policy, the dean and other administrative people are in no obligation whatsoever to consider what the student government says. If you really want to affect change on your campus, you're better off starting a student organization for protesting and possibly occupying.

[Decolonize The Left]

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience or thoughts about running for campus/student elections in colleges or universities to challenge the populist and self-interested (pro-capitalist) yuppies that (in my experience) seem to run things on this bodies.

From a practical point of view, how could one go about getting flyers and/or posters, and would it cost a lot to cover maybe a target audience of 4,000?

Practically speaking, you would have to use your print credits and the school's printers to make your fliers, so it would cost you. You could also do it at Kinko's or some local copy place, but you'd still be paying out of pocket. I would also suggest that you draft a statement and get it published in all the school's papers. You need publicity to get noticed. If you can, request a debate where you can speak your piece and be heard by a large amount of students.

As to the relevance of all this, do you want to run? If so, you should do it. Oh, and don't use words like communism, socialism, anarchism, or even anti-capitalism. Keep your campaign on what you are going to do for the student body - forget bigger political ideas until after you've been elected.

- August

[hatzel]

As far as I'm concerned, there are two main benefits in being elected to some position through a campus election. One is that it looks good on your CV, I guess, which could be useful. The second is that it might help give you some experience when it comes to debating points in a non-RevLeft way (:laugh:) and holding some kind of responsibility. These skills can be used in other walks of life, particularly if you want to play an influential part in some political organisation, and represent your ideology in formal debates. So sure, there are benefits, but they're not 'hey, I'm going to make the uni a better place!', they're much more applicable to your life after that. For that alone, I'll give you all my support, if you want to get involved in it :thumbup1:

[¿Que?]

As far as I'm concerned, there are two main benefits in being elected to some position through a campus election. One is that it looks good on your CV, I guess, which could be useful. The second is that it might help give you some experience when it comes to debating points in a non-RevLeft way (:laugh:) and holding some kind of responsibility. These skills can be used in other walks of life, particularly if you want to play an influential part in some political organisation, and represent your ideology in formal debates. So sure, there are benefits, but they're not 'hey, I'm going to make the uni a better place!', they're much more applicable to your life after that. For that alone, I'll give you all my support, if you want to get involved in it :thumbup1:
Oh definitely. If you're thinking about a career in politics, it wouldn't hurt. But then, what kind of leftist would the OP be if he/she were interested in a career in politics. They'd have to justify that somehow.

[PhoenixAsh]

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience or thoughts about running for campus/student elections in colleges or universities to challenge the populist and self-interested (pro-capitalist) yuppies that (in my experience) seem to run things on this bodies.

From a practical point of view, how could one go about getting flyers and/or posters, and would it cost a lot to cover maybe a target audience of 4,000?

If you get the chance...do it. Not only does it provide better opportunities later on it also provides experience which you can find useful.


As to the question raised what kind of revolutionary you are... We do not live in an era in which revolution is around the corner. And as such most of us have to make it in the real world and accept that we have to function within a capitalist society and provide for ourselves and our families. If you reject participating in society you might as wel go live in a commune.

[OhYesIdid]

If you get the chance...do it. Not only does it provide better opportunities later on it also provides experience which you can find useful.


As to the question raised what kind of revolutionary you are... We do not live in an era in which revolution is around the corner. And as such most of us have to make it in the real world and accept that we have to function within a capitalist society and provide for ourselves and our families. If you reject participating in society you might as wel go live in a commune.

What you must obviously take from this post is:


ACCEPT and CONFORM: hey, it's not like there's any other option!
"go live in a commune" is a valid INSULT: nothing is below such degrading activities as acting and, you know, actually being the change you want to see in the world. Remember the old rich marxist mantra: Postpone! Postpone! Postpone!

[DaringMehring]

As to the question raised what kind of revolutionary you are... We do not live in an era in which revolution is around the corner.

In case you didn't notice, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Nepal, mass strike in France, anti-cuts movement in the UK, Bahrain, Yemen, India, Iceland, Philippines, mass occupation in Wisconsin, etc. ... This is only the tip of the iceberg of capitalism's new death phase.

We may not know what kind of revolutionary he is, but it is pretty clear what type of "revolutionary" you are.

[PhoenixAsh]

What you must obviously take from this post is:


ACCEPT and CONFORM: hey, it's not like there's any other option!
"go live in a commune" is a valid INSULT: nothing is below such degrading activities as acting and, you know, actually being the change you want to see in the world. Remember the old rich marxist mantra: Postpone! Postpone! Postpone!



First of all we live in a capitalist society and we have to keep living in a capitalist society until there is a succesful revolution. Until that time we need to survive.

And we survive by adapting to the current system as best as we can. That means we participate where we need to participate and if we want to gain a marginally better position we need to keep in mind what we need to do for that. Now...being a member of a communist party, an anarchist political group is all nice and well...but it does not pay the bills. Now does it? Protesting and organising and calling for oppposition and revolution does not exactly put food on the table....now does it?

Now...given the fact that he goes to college and does not chose to become an unskilled and untrained worker...who I might add still partcipates in the current system...I gather that he wants to apply his new found knowledge in the world.

Now to be able to apply that new found knowledge he either has to set up his own bussiness or join an existing one. Be it on the right or the left of the spectrum...For both experience and extra curricular activities are a benefit.....even those who are part of the current system: BECAUSE THEY BOTH FUNCTION IN THE CURRENT SYSTEM.

That brings me to the second point. The one you so light headedly took as an insult.

We reject the current system because it runs counter opposed to our ideals in each and every way. If being a true revolutionary somehow means you have to reject every aspect that does not comply with our ideals....this logically means you can not participate in society at all.

Therefore to be able to do so you need to go live in a commune which is run entirely by the ideals we uphold.

Now...explain to me...HOW is that an insult? HOW is anything I said about communes an insult?

[¿Que?]

But there are other options. Some people actually do make a living protesting and organizing. You ain't gonna get rich though, that's for sure.

[PhoenixAsh]

In case you didn't notice, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Nepal, mass strike in France, anti-cuts movement in the UK, Bahrain, Yemen, India, Iceland, Philippines, mass occupation in Wisconsin, etc. ... This is only the tip of the iceberg of capitalism's new death phase.

We may not know what kind of revolutionary he is, but it is pretty clear what type of "revolutionary" you are.

O boy.

Well...to adress the ad hominem first. Come back when you have actually tried to participate in revolution Ok? until then try to refrain from ad hominems like you are some armchair internet warrior. K...thnx bye.

In case you haven't noticed..most of the revolutions you are naming are not socialist in nature. Libya is completely unclear where this will be going. Egypt and Tunesia will at best become democratic welfare states. Pehaps the same for Bahrain. Yemen uprisings are intrinsically linked to Iran....and it would not surprise me at all if it will become an Islamic Republic...but lets remain positive and say it will become a Islamic democracy.

In Nepal the maoists are currently supporting capitalism so they can have a revolution. In the case they do not...how many news features have you seen about Nepal recently in the western media? Cold hard reality...nobody in the west is really all that interested in Nepal.

Same for India....and the Phillipines. People in the west are really not that attached to what is happening there. So capitalism here will not be to much rattled by it.

The protests in the UK are not inspired or led by a unified political ambition. Neither are the protests in the US. We have seen far more widespread and violent clashes in the UK in the past during Tatcher...


They are a start...but they will not lead to revolution as we want to see it.

[Watermelon Man]

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience or thoughts about running for campus/student elections in colleges or universities to challenge the populist and self-interested (pro-capitalist) yuppies that (in my experience) seem to run things on this bodies.

From a practical point of view, how could one go about getting flyers and/or posters, and would it cost a lot to cover maybe a target audience of 4,000?

Students belonging to various socialist groups, mainly the Socialist Alliance, often run in elections for office positions within the student union at my university. Of course, in Australia, student unions actually liase with the top-level university councils and committees and have successfully advocated for student rights on many occasions. They are also key players in organising protest rallies and demonstrations, along with other activist activities. If you do get a position in the union executive or the student council or whatever it is you're doing, you have the chance to re-orient the role of that student body and perhaps work for student rights at your college.

If you can get a group of like-minded socialists together to run for different positions, and run as a ticket or party, then perhaps there is a chance to pool resources and get some decent promotional material happening. A student collective operating in this way can be very successful, especially if you are called something like the Socialist Alliance or something that will get the interest of left-minded students. If a body of like-minded socialists can be found anywhere, it's got to be at a college campus.

I have been involved with student unions for a few years, and have recently stepped up to state government politics as an election candidate in Victoria, Australia. Running a campaign is an excellent learning experience, and you will learn how to better articulate your positions on a variety of issues and relate them effectively to a wider audience than you'd find here on RevLeft. You'll also gain an insight into why our politicians become so corrupted so quickly. Election campaigns are a dirty business at times, and it can be easy to fall into that world while forgetting your original reasons for being there in the first place. Running as an election candidate can be both a harrowing and empowering experience. Do it.

[DaringMehring]

Well...to adress the ad hominem first.

There is no ad hominem. Ad hominem is attacking a person to discredit their position. I'm attacking your position, which is that revolutions are a fantasy, at best something to be waited for, rather than a real and possible objective that we all need to work for.

It is weird, that you consistently post opinions denying revolution, and then cry ad hominem when you are labeled as not a revolutionary.

[Watermelon Man]

We do not live in an era in which revolution is around the corner.

Well, you know what they say: a society is only three meals away from a revolution.

[PhoenixAsh]

There is no ad hominem. Ad hominem is attacking a person to discredit their position. I'm attacking your position, which is that revolutions are a fantasy, at best something to be waited for, rather than a real and possible objective that we all need to work for.

It is weird, that you consistently post opinions denying revolution, and then cry ad hominem when you are labeled as not a revolutionary.

And you did attack me personally...reread your post. You did not attack my position you attacked me.

Neither was my position that revolutions are a fantasy. So don't try that strawman argument here.

What I said was that the revolution, meaning a succesful socialist/communist/anarchist one, is not going to happen any time soon.

As a refutation you posted a string of revolts and uprisings of which very few of them have the goal of bringing the revolution towards a socialist/communist/anarchist state but in fact have the goal to bring (social) democracy, western style capitalism, and freedom of speech...and while I support the toppling of monarchies, dictators and fighting for greazer social justice and workers rights I am in no way dilluded to think it will bring a society we here want.

[PhoenixAsh]

Well, you know what they say: a society is only three meals away from a revolution.

But what kind of revolution would that be?

[DaringMehring]

And you did attack me personally...reread your post. You did not attack my position you attacked me.

Neither was my position that revolutions are a fantasy. So don't try that strawman argument here.

What I said was that the revolution, meaning a succesful socialist/communist/anarchist one, is not going to happen any time soon.

As a refutation you posted a string of revolts and uprisings of which very few of them have the goal of bringing the revolution towards a socialist/communist/anarchist state but in fact have the goal to bring (social) democracy, western style capitalism, and freedom of speech...and while I support the toppling of monarchies, dictators and fighting for greazer social justice and workers rights I am in no way dilluded to think it will bring a society we here want.

Ok. I did not intend it as ad hominem, and I'm sorry if it was taken that way.

What I think is self-defeating, is your attitude that there's no possibility of socialist revolution -- even as mass movements are forming all over the world. Some of them clearly have socialist potential. We need revolutionary leadership now more than ever. If they had more people who had been working for the socialist revolution in Egypt, there would be more of a chance of that happening now that the masses are in motion.

You say that you don't think revolution is fantasy, but you turn around and say, it isn't happening "any time soon." In the end, those are the same thing, because both say, you don't need to work for the revolution right now.

But come on, capitalism is exploitative, immoral, holds social development back, is unstable, and is crashing down around us. The laws of capitalism outlined by Marx tell us that there is no escape from this impasse as the organic composition of capital will continue to increase, unless there's a terrible mass destruction like WWII.

We fight now, for socialism, or it will be barbarism.

[RedSquare]

My main intention was to use the position to increase the voice I have to be able to get familiar with more students and radicalise some of them in casual passing.

I think there's too much of a view of the radical Left as people sitting on the sidelines, not taking on responsibility but always predicting doom. So I suppose I'm favourable of using the platforms provided to get leftist views out there and hopefully provide people with a positive experience.If we don't participate, we're excluded, and don't get to show or tell how we see society should be organised while using the positions on the edge of the system to effect change.

If a Communist/Anarchist/Whatever helps someone with an issue in their college, that will be a positive encounter, so the next time that person hears of tendency, they'll think more positively of it.

[PhoenixAsh]

Ok. I did not intend it as ad hominem, and I'm sorry if it was taken that way.

Ok...no problem. I did not get your meaning behind that sentence.



What I think is self-defeating, is your attitude that there's no possibility of socialist revolution -- even as mass movements are forming all over the world. Some of them clearly have socialist potential.

Look...my initial statement was mainly directed towards the situation in the US and western Europe.

I am certainly not saying some parts of the world may experience an increase of socialist movements and support which may eventually lead to revolutions in the future....however the current analysis of the revolutions leads me to conclude that the revolutions in Egypt/Tunisia/Bahrain will stop short at a parliamentary democracy with social welfare state tendencies. From the position they are comming from that is a large step foreward but it still ends in a capitalist system.

In the US and western-Europe the true socialists are simply too much marginalized. Most so called socialist movemenst have either sold out to or were part of the capitalist system....and have voluntarilly converted to social democracy.

It needs time to rebuild and I agree that the current uprisings of workers does indeed further that goal. But there have been a lot of uprisings of workers. Sometimes they were large and violent and were brutally beaten down (like in Brittain in the 80's) or were reactionary in nature (like for example Poland).

It needs time to gain credit and re-acceptance. And though we can benefit from the current economic crisis...it has often be shown that the far populist right and extremist-right are far better at this than we are in economis crisis...simply because they offer easy and quick "solutions" (which aren't solutions at all...rather strawman or scaegoat arguments...but people fall for it.)

We are currently doing that by organising workers in protests; attending protests and setting examples...but the position we come from is so far back in the race that it will take several years to get there.




We need revolutionary leadership now more than ever. If they had more people who had been working for the socialist revolution in Egypt, there would be more of a chance of that happening now that the masses are in motion.

I agree... But they did not. Mainly because the socialist party has been repressed and marginalized. Nevertheless socialists are very active in the labour movement in Egypt and try, with some succes, to gain a foothold over social democracy and state sanctioned unions.



You say that you don't think revolution is fantasy, but you turn around and say, it isn't happening "any time soon." In the end, those are the same thing, because both say, you don't need to work for the revolution right now.

I take a different position. I think we need to work towards that goal...but in the meantime we have to live in capitalist society. People who follow college and university education can infiltrate corporations on a higher position of power and can infiltrate political parties to garnish support and radicalise members....or create companies and parties of their own to fight the system. Either way they operate in capitalist society and therefore they should know how that works, gain experience within the system....simply because anything short of denying current society and refusing completely to have anything to do with it means you somehow have to comply to it in some form or other.

I'll give you an example from experience.

Q studied at university. applied for a job and was promoted to a higher management position. The CEO and corporate leadership was planning on paycuts. Q heard of those and informed unions and informed the workers of the plans so they could oppose them. Q also worked behind the scenes to get union reps and smuggled flyers and information into the company so workers could unionise with more legitimate unions when the corporations of the branch decided to create their own"union"
Q also was in a position to frustrate company policy on several budget and personal cuts reducing the outflux of labour and increasing the avarage workers-life span from one year to three years. Q's actions were directly responsible for unionising 35% of the workers were unionisation levels were previously only 7% and was instrumental in the creation of an employee council which functions as a buffer between CEO and employees (the CEO actually needs approval from such a council for any policy changes he wants to implement....this functions according to the Dutch law and is therefore somewhat limited within the system....but never the less it increased workers control within the company).

Now...what would Q have done with his acces to financial resources, payrolling, the company billing system and administration when there actually was a general strike or workers revolution? Think about it.




But come on, capitalism is exploitative, immoral, holds social development back, is unstable, and is crashing down around us.
The laws of capitalism outlined by Marx tell us that there is no escape from this impasse as the organic composition of capital will continue to increase, unless there's a terrible mass destruction like WWII.

We fight now, for socialism, or it will be barbarism.

O absolutely. We are in complete agreement there...we just differ on opinion of the time frame.

But I think we will suffer another war before it comes to a revolution...because at this point in time we will have to cope with resource shortages and history teaches us that that will lead to war first revolution second.

[DaringMehring]

I understand what you are saying, as long as it exists we have to live under capitalism, so we need to be able to survive and also, the better we know it the better we can fight it.

But then you take a huge leap saying that we can conduct the class struggle by some kind of infiltration of capitalist forms. That is an idea with a long history of failure. Like for instance, in your example of the guy who "unionized 35% percent of the workforce" --- that is all wrong. Workers have to learn to fight for themselves. Being gifted unions by secret socialists has nothing to do with the class struggle.

The end result of this approach is usually, the secret socialists ceases to actually be a socialist, and ends up a lukewarm reformist, having done nothing to advance class consciousness or advance the class struggle.

You can fight for socialism and revolution, without standing up to the bourgeoisie, and arguing and agitating for socialism and revolution. You aren't going to slip under their radar, and help the masses radicalize by Aesopian actions and unspoken propaganda.

[PhoenixAsh]

I understand what you are saying, as long as it exists we have to live under capitalism, so we need to be able to survive and also, the better we know it the better we can fight it.

Exactly



But then you take a huge leap saying that we can conduct the class struggle by some kind of infiltration of capitalist forms. That is an idea with a long history of failure.

If its used as a stand alone... yes...not in the whole context of class struggle in a broader sense.

Fight were you can fight and subvert, infiltrate and obstruct where you can.


Like for instance, in your example of the guy who "unionized 35% percent of the workforce" --- that is all wrong. Workers have to learn to fight for themselves. Being gifted unions by secret socialists has nothing to do with the class struggle.p

What I said was that he let the union reps in to inform the workers who then unionised....thereby obstructing a CEO created "union" from gaining foothold. Had the union reps not come in an told the workers how they could create their own union the workers would have joined the company union...which is kind of defeating since it was on the direct payrol of the company.

Workers in many branches are not unionised, do not realise they can and should unionise and do not know how to unionise. They have to first be pointed towards the option to fight, realise the necessity of fighting and understand how they can fight. Many workers are very compliant because they feel there is nothing they can do and think they law will protect them.




The end result of this approach is usually, the secret socialists ceases to actually be a socialist, and ends up a lukewarm reformist, having done nothing to advance class consciousness or advance the class struggle.

That can be the case....just like workers unionising into a reactionary union.



You can fight for socialism and revolution, without standing up to the bourgeoisie, and arguing and agitating for socialism and revolution.

I do not think you can.


You aren't going to slip under their radar, and help the masses radicalize by Aesopian actions and unspoken propaganda.

No...but you can slip in long enough to obstuct, sabotage and subvert.

[Watermelon Man]

My main intention was to use the position to increase the voice I have to be able to get familiar with more students and radicalise some of them in casual passing.

I think there's too much of a view of the radical Left as people sitting on the sidelines, not taking on responsibility but always predicting doom. So I suppose I'm favourable of using the platforms provided to get leftist views out there and hopefully provide people with a positive experience.If we don't participate, we're excluded, and don't get to show or tell how we see society should be organised while using the positions on the edge of the system to effect change.

If a Communist/Anarchist/Whatever helps someone with an issue in their college, that will be a positive encounter, so the next time that person hears of tendency, they'll think more positively of it.

This is admirable, especially given that there are some individuals here who deny the legitimacy of elections and reform and what-not. It's not 'real' socialist politics, or something.

Refusing to participate in the democratic processes and systems of our society because of your ideological commitment to revolutionary <insert tendency>-ism is, in a practical sense, just the same as passively accepting oppressive/discriminatory/inhumane/whatever situations. At the end of the day, you're just sitting around doing nothing at all about a shitty situation, no matter how much you might whinge about it on RevLeft. So doing something is better than doing nothing.

Additionally, positive encounters with leftist political groups are important, especially when mainstream society tends to be, at very least, wary of us. It's important to show them that we are good people with genuine concern about the condition of the world we live in. Most people think we're just nuts.

[Sam_b]

Our anti-cuts candidate, and SWP member, stood for SRC President in our elections, and polled 1,200 votes, only losing by less than 200. This was achieved by talking to as many students as posssible about the issues, having a targeted flyering/banner/placarding campaign and doing lecture announcements. You can see a bit of this from the website that was set up www.votefoley.co.uk.

[Wanted Man]

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience or thoughts about running for campus/student elections in colleges or universities to challenge the populist and self-interested (pro-capitalist) yuppies that (in my experience) seem to run things on this bodies.

I haven't run for these elections myself, but I regularly work with people in student councils. What is the situation in your university, what kind of organisations are there currently?

It's hard to generalise them all as "useless". In the 1970s, the communist-influenced student union and council movement here actually achieved "medebestuur" (co-administration, i.e. student councils directly influencing decisions) instead of "medezeggenschap" (having a say in the running of the university). Of course this has been scaled back long ago. The thing is that power to the students and all that is something that needs to be struggled for, and it is in the midst of these struggles that student councils earn their legitimacy.

Nowadays, at least where I'm from, university council elections are increasingly populist multi-party affairs, as a kind of mini-parliamentary democracy, with no real power, despite the best efforts of the student union movement in these campaigns. For the latter, it is important to have a strong organisation behind it, so that the motions of the councillors can be backed up by action. Otherwise, their work will be invisible and will be met with apathy by anyone who's even aware of it.

What is your idea, broadly speaking?


From a practical point of view, how could one go about getting flyers and/or posters, and would it cost a lot to cover maybe a target audience of 4,000?

We have some shady Polish connection, but I have no idea how that works.

[DaringMehring]

I do not think you can.


Sorry, I typoed, I meant "can't," so yeah, we agree.

[MarxSchmarx]

The one and only student government election I voted in after secondary school involved a slate of students whose express goal was to abolish student government and expose it as the careerist, collaborationist regime of opportunists that it was. They had enough signatures, and when the candidates met and they were asked to give their schpeal this group performed a song instead to express their contempt for the process. Their candidates lost, but the person running for head hancho managed to get about 30% of the vote.

In perhaps a somewhat more inspiring arena, one of my colleagues (who I had only met once at some gathering) managed to run for the local municipal board and actually got elected on a platform of student grievances about slumlords, crummy transportation and a lack of services like grocery stores in the university's vicinity. I don't know what became of his time on the board but he managed to get enough of the student population involved in that election to address some concerns for off-campus issues.