Libya versus Rebels

[Viet Minh]

Who do you support? This is just a poll, keep your arguments out of here!

[Bud Struggle]

Are you kidding? As a Loyal Communist I agree with the decision of the great leaders of the Cuban people Fidel and Ruel Castro and support the democratic enlightened regime of Muammar Gaddafi.

Not really.:rolleyes:

[Viet Minh]

Are you kidding? As a Loyal Communist I agree with the decision of the great leaders of the Cuban people Fidel and Ruel Castro and support the democratic enlightened regime of Muammar Gaddafi.

Not really.:rolleyes:

:D
He's not my hero exactly, but it just depends who comes after him. The protests are pro-Democracy, all very well and good, but look where 'Democracy' has gotten Iraq and Afghanistan. :(

[B5C]

The rebels. I oppose the violence there, but I don't control the situation and also it's not my right to tell others how to rebel.

[Fulanito de Tal]

:D
He's not my hero exactly, but it just depends who comes after him. The protests are pro-Democracy, all very well and good, but look where 'Democracy' has gotten Iraq and Afghanistan. :(

Democracy and capitalism cannot co-exist. Democracy is a concept used in capitalist societies to give the impression of a neutral government. If a government is capitalist, it is not democratic.

[Viet Minh]

Democracy and capitalism cannot co-exist. Democracy is a concept used in capitalist societies to give the impression of a neutral government. If a government is capitalist, it is not democratic.

I agree to a certain extent, but could it not be argued its on a sliding scale? In the UK for instance we are far from being a Dmeocracy, at best you can vote for one of two parties in an unfair first past the post system, and hope it makes a difference, but they both lie to you anyway, and almost never keep their election promises. And of course whoevers in power conveniently forgets all about the voters until the next election. But still, there is still some recourse, the general public has the slightest element of control over their government, they are servants of the state as opposed to being its absolute slaves under a totalitarian regime or dictatorship. in other words progression, improvement in peoples lives. ALthough i can take the point that at some stage of improvement the people can become complacent, and stop pushing radical reform. Its like the schools of thought in Buddhism, sudden versus gradual enlightenment. I'm rambling but my point is, is it not worth pushing for democratic shifts, or is the point moot altogether? In a truly democratic society of course there is no need for traditional government as such, unless there are issues with tyranny of the majority, outside of human rights protected by a constitution or treaty.
I can see the inverse relationship between democracy and capitalism, the government act in the interests of the worker to ascertain their votes, as opposed to pandering to the boss who lines their pockets with wads of cash, I'm just not sure there can't be a balance somewhere. I'm not advocating pure Capitalism, I just think I'd prefer to live in a socially-progressive responsible capitalist system (even at the bottom of the scale as I am) than in certain ostensibly leftist states. Arguably though that has to do with a) western cpaitalist brainwashing, b) living in a wealthy capitalist state shields me from the reality of its effects on the thrid world c) Stalin being a total dick who almost ruined leftism for everyone d) i suppose fear of the unknown

[alegab]

I support the rebels, come on, things on Libya hardly could get any worse. I just hope the new govt won't be totallitarian, extremist (it's within a region where peace is necessary), etc

[Lt. Ferret]

secular social democracy providing social services based on nationalized oil production profits plz.

[alegab]

And I wish they managed to develop an economy less dependant on oil

[Bud Struggle]

And I wish they managed to develop an economy less dependant on oil

That's the story ofr the entire Middle East. There is very little economy there without oil.

[Che a chara]

The protesters/rebels.

You can't attack your own people or deny them their rights. Gadaffi was a hero in the past, but he has been corrupted and has tried to turn the Libyans into his babies who have to suck on his nipples to be fed. He has also cosied up to imperialist powers....

A once great man, who will now not be remembered for his greatness. Step the fuck down 'Colonel'

[9]

Neither. The rebels are obviously being supported by western imperialism; its pretty undeniable at this stage, I think.

[Magón]

Glorious Comrade Gaddafi all the way! I mean, have you seen the glorious speeches he's had at the UN, and has said now! I mean, how can you hate a man who's not even in charge of the country (his words), and instead is just a political guide for the people. :lol:



:D
He's not my hero exactly, but it just depends who comes after him. The protests are pro-Democracy, all very well and good, but look where 'Democracy' has gotten Iraq and Afghanistan. :(

And look how much US intervention went into those "pro-democracy" protest/changes. You can't compare what's going on in Libya, with that of what's happened in Iraq or Afghanistan. They're very far apart. In one, Libya, you've got the people rising up on their own, and fighting for democracy. While in the others, Iraq and Afghanistan, you've got people being guided by US intervention on how to achieve "democracy".

[RGacky3]

Neither. The rebels are obviously being supported by western imperialism

So? the enemy of my enemy is my friend, I'm pretty sure thats how the US is playing this. Also, no, its not clear.

Who the hell supports Gadaffi???

[Bud Struggle]

So? the enemy of my enemy is my friend, I'm pretty sure thats how the US is playing this. Also, no, its not clear.

Who the hell supports Gadaffi???

Well it seems there are those people, And people that are undecided and people that don't support either side. You Communists are a curious bunch.

[RGacky3]

I suppose so, by definition a socialist should support popular uprisings, obviously not the cooption of popular uprisings, but the uprising itself.

[Bud Struggle]

I suppose so, by definition a socialist should support popular uprisings, obviously not the cooption of popular uprisings, but the uprising itself.


But the uprising in Libya is the real thing. And it hasn't been coopted by anyone. People seem to support a bloody dictator Gaddafi just because 30 years ago he used to be anti-American.

[RGacky3]

People seem to support a bloody dictator Gaddafi just because 30 years ago he used to be anti-American.

Which is absolutely insnane.

[Blake's Baby]

Bloody hell, I agree with Bud Struggle and RGacky.

Or, perhaps even more unbelievably, they agree with me.

But that's because I'm against all governments, even the ones that the Americans don't like. Though, as the US government is opposing the idea of a no-fly zone, presumably the anti-Americans will now start calling for one.

[#FF0000]

Bloody hell, I agree with Bud Struggle and RGacky.

Or, perhaps even more unbelievably, they agree with me.

But that's because I'm against all governments, even the ones that the Americans don't like. Though, as the US government is opposing the idea of a no-fly zone, presumably the anti-Americans will now start calling for one.

Nah I think the general consensus among everyone is that the US should stay out.

[Jimmie Higgins]

:D
He's not my hero exactly, but it just depends who comes after him. The protests are pro-Democracy, all very well and good, but look where 'Democracy' has gotten Iraq and Afghanistan. :(That's imposed "democracy" and there have been protests recently in Iraq too. A struggle from below for democracy will allow the potential development of popular struggles against neoliberalism too. These dictators ruled with fear and the sense that no alternative is possible - just like in the US or UK, they punish workers and make them feel helpless and then promote the idea that any change will make things worse for workers. People are challenging that fear now and that means that people have the potential to develop a fight for an alternative. Obviously Egypt with a much more mature and sizable working class has the best opportunity to develop a socialist alternative, but radicals shouldn't dismiss popular uprisings against monarchs and dictators. An atmosphere of popular revolt from below is one that is much more favorable to Socialist politics as well as oppressed people in general than fear and popular repression.

[ComradeMan]

So? the enemy of my enemy is my friend, I'm pretty sure thats how the US is playing this. Also, no, its not clear.

Who the hell supports Gadaffi???

Three votes here do....:lol:

[Green/Red]

I support the protesters.