3D printers:The begining of communism?

[Delenda Carthago]

RepRap is a free (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software) desktop 3D printer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_printing) capable of printing plastic objects. Since many parts of RepRap are made from plastic and RepRap can print those parts, RepRap is a self-replicating machine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_machine) - one that anyone can build given time and materials. It also means that - if you've got a RepRap - you can print lots of useful stuff, and you can print another RepRap (http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/5/5f/Three_mendels_parent_children.jpg) for a friend (http://reprap.org/wiki/Loaner_Program)...
RepRap is about making self-replicating machines, and making them freely available for the benefit of everyone. We are using 3D printing to do this, but if you have other technologies that can copy themselves and that can be made freely available to all, then this is the place for you too.
Reprap.org is a community project, which means you are welcome to edit most pages on this site, or better yet, create new pages of your own. Our community portal (http://reprap.org/wiki/RepRapWiki:Community_portal) and New Development (http://reprap.org/wiki/Development) pages have more information on how to get involved. Use the links below and on the left to explore the site contents. You'll find some content translated into other languages (http://reprap.org/wiki/RepRapWiki:Translations).


http://reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page

With this technology,we can have small industries in our houses where we can produce everything we want. Which means that no human labor is needed.Only mental work.

Today a leftist newspaper and some communist blogs were talking about this truly revolutionary technology and its ability to simply...cancel capitalism.And its true.Communism can be achieved with the abolish of human work.This is where the USSR project failed-and why it could not work back then.But today, we have the ability to abolish human work and by that we can abolish overvalue and so capitalism.This is so fuckin great news I feel like fuckin go out and have a drink or two.:lol:

[Dimmu]

Yeah these 3d printers have a great future. Would be awesome to own one.

[anonymousj]

Ive been waiting for developments from this tech for quite some time thanks for finding it

[Delenda Carthago]

Think about it.You would be able to have a software and create with it everything you would love to.Your shoes, your game consoles,your mp3 players, your bikes,your cars,your whatever...

[ComradeOm]

I have no idea where to start with this one. Will 3D printing undermine capitalism and usher in a socialist society? In short: no

Slightly longer response: Don't be ridiculous. 3D printing is a useful little technology that's been used for a decade or two to make small plastic prototypes. Its got potential to expand out of this niche but supplanting every other manufacturing technique? You're having a laugh. You don't have to have to have spent eight plus hours today assembling heavy machinery to see just how limited the application of this technology is. Try 'printing' a car

I was going to do a 'much longer response' dealing with your flawed conception of communism but honestly I couldn't be bothered. Eight plus hours on the factory floor and all that

[anonymousj]

what input material does this require it seems to be restricted to simple plastic objects at this early state?

[Diogenes]

I've been to an engineering college that has a 3D printer, and it just compresses little particles of "sand" ( I don't know what the material was ) and makes small models of objects. It would take years and years before we could actually print a cd or even a car, let alone have a printer small enough for homes.

[Lunatic Concept]

Well you gotta remember this is just the start and *hopefully* there will be a huge push towards expanding the functionality of machines like these then we might see something more serious.

[Hoplite]

This is why I describe myself as Transhumanistic Socialist; I believe that technologies like this will bring about a more socialistic world.

If we take the ability to produce goods out of the hands of large interests, their power is sapped away. Once we have the ability to produce what we need ourselves, we have no need of stores.

Something like programmable matter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_matter) would mean we can literally create anything we need. There will be no need for ANYONE to go without the basic needs of life.

[red cat]

I've been to an engineering college that has a 3D printer, and it just compresses little particles of "sand" ( I don't know what the material was ) and makes small models of objects. It would take years and years before we could actually print a cd or even a car, let alone have a printer small enough for homes.

How complex were these objects ? Could they replicate, for example, a solid sphere with a hole the end of which is not visible from outside ?

[Hoplite]

How complex were these objects ? Could they replicate, for example, a solid sphere with a hole the end of which is not visible from outside ?
3D printing can replicate extremely complex shapes (http://www.google.com/images?q=3d+printing&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WGhtTdz_GI_2swPEsPmqBQ&ved=0CKoBELAE&biw=1680&bih=937). If the process builds up from the bottom, I dont see why it couldn't create what you're describing.

[Diogenes]

How complex were these objects ? Could they replicate, for example, a solid sphere with a hole the end of which is not visible from outside ?

They were making very complex items, they had made a small castle chess piece with a detailed spiral staircase inside of it. It was very detailed but like I said it was made of this "sand" I don't really know if they could make cds using that type of material

[red cat]

3D printing can replicate extremely complex shapes (http://www.google.com/images?q=3d+printing&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WGhtTdz_GI_2swPEsPmqBQ&ved=0CKoBELAE&biw=1680&bih=937). If the process builds up from the bottom, I dont see why it couldn't create what you're describing.

The objects in the pictures were more or less symmetric despite their complex structure. Were they replicated from some already existing ones ? Or was the input something different ? What I want to know is that if I have an already physically existing complex object, can the machine replicate it from that input alone ?

[red cat]

They were making very complex items, they had made a small castle chess piece with a detailed spiral staircase inside of it. It was very detailed but like I said it was made of this "sand" I don't really know if they could make cds using that type of material

How were they replicating physical objects ? Were they dipping it in some fluid containing sensors ?

[Delenda Carthago]

This is why I describe myself as Transhumanistic Socialist; I believe that technologies like this will bring about a more socialistic world.

If we take the ability to produce goods out of the hands of large interests, their power is sapped away. Once we have the ability to produce what we need ourselves, we have no need of stores.

Something like programmable matter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_matter) would mean we can literally create anything we need. There will be no need for ANYONE to go without the basic needs of life.
Actually, capitalism itself poped up after the Industrial revolution.So yeah,technology has a huge part to what the economic system is.

[Diogenes]

How were they replicating physical objects ? Were they dipping it in some fluid containing sensors ?

They were using some sort of CAD program to input the design and then they compacted the material vertically to create the chess piece.

[Delenda Carthago]

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[Diogenes]

^^^ that's what they used, at least that's close to what it looked like

[Hoplite]

The objects in the pictures were more or less symmetric despite their complex structure. Were they replicated from some already existing ones ? Or was the input something different ? What I want to know is that if I have an already physically existing complex object, can the machine replicate it from that input alone ?
Yes. With the right equipment, you can scan an item to pick up it's form, send that information to a computer which then directs a 3d printer to re-create the scanned object.

THIS (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/3D_scanning_and_printing.jpg) gargoyle was created in that process. It looks a little funky because it hasnt been painted, but for a home-brew process, that's pretty amazing.


Actually, capitalism itself poped up after the Industrial revolution.So yeah,technology has a huge part to what the economic system is.
Consider that the Industrial Revolution was very conducive to a vertical economic system, like Capitalism. If we have a new Industrial Revolution with technology such as 3d printing, programmable matter, nanotechnology, etc etc, that is conducive to a much more diverse economic system. We arent locked into having to buy what we need or want from the people that produce it and set an arbitrary price, WE produce it ourselves.

[Broletariat]

Consider that the Industrial Revolution was very conducive to a vertical economic system, like Capitalism. If we have a new Industrial Revolution with technology such as 3d printing, programmable matter, nanotechnology, etc etc, that is conducive to a much more diverse economic system. We arent locked into having to buy what we need or want from the people that produce it and set an arbitrary price, WE produce it ourselves.

I really think that the advent of copyrights and patents makes these sorts of ideas very silly.

[red cat]

Yes. With the right equipment, you can scan an item to pick up it's form, send that information to a computer which then directs a 3d printer to re-create the scanned object.

THIS (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/3D_scanning_and_printing.jpg) gargoyle was created in that process. It looks a little funky because it hasnt been painted, but for a home-brew process, that's pretty amazing.



Notice that the whole surface of the gargoyle is visible from outside of it. This is why I gave an example of an object that cannot be scanned properly if parts of the scanner do not enter the inside of it. Have this type of objects been replicated yet ?

[Delenda Carthago]

Notice that the whole surface of the gargoyle is visible from outside of it. This is why I gave an example of an object that cannot be scanned properly if parts of the scanner do not enter the inside of it. Have this type of objects been replicated yet ?
you do realise that arguing over such small technical details is totally funny,right?

[red cat]

you do realise that arguing over such small technical details is totally funny,right?

It's not a small detail. For example, this issue will come up if you want to replicate things like a car. :)

[Delenda Carthago]

It's not a small detail. For example, this issue will come up if you want to replicate things like a car. :)
Yes,but with the progress of technology, its just a matter of time(matter of fact,the article I mentioned before says that its a matter of 10 years tops to have machines that will print with more than one materials)to not have that problem.Its like living in 1999 and someone tells you "hey,that internet thing is really dope.One day you would be able to see movies over there".And you be like "nah,dont you see how slow that connection is?". Give it time buddy.And prepare yourself and the ground so it would be used in the right way.That's the main issue.

[red cat]

Yes,but with the progress of technology, its just a matter of time(matter of fact,the article I mentioned before says that its a matter of 10 years tops to have machines that will print with more than one materials)to not have that problem.Its like living in 1999 and someone tells you "hey,that internet thing is really dope.One day you would be able to see movies over there".And you be like "nah,dont you see how slow that connection is?". Give it time buddy.And prepare yourself and the ground so it would be used in the right way.That's the main issue.

It might not turn out that way. What I think is that, if you want to replicate a really complex object, only from the physical object alone, then you will require to have a large number of micro-sensors. Probably hundreds of millions of them. You will need to reconstruct the object so that you don't miss out any detail while approximating. Plus to get the full picture you will need to have the relative position and coordinates of the sensors which will be mobile in nature.

In short, I think this kind of complexity is not achievable with modern technology; as in, it is not practically feasible with the present models of computation that we use.

[Delenda Carthago]

I think it would be silly of me to take a stance on something I know so litle about.All I know is the articles that I read today from various sources and they all seem to think that what I m sayin here is plausible. This is all I know.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

There will be no need for ANYONE to go without the basic needs of life.

There's no reason for anyone to go without them now, except that the means of producing them are owned by the capitalists.

[red cat]

I think it would be silly of me to take a stance on something I know so litle about.All I know is the articles that I read today from various sources and they all seem to think that what I m sayin here is plausible. This is all I know.

That's okay ... I don't know anything more about it either :D

I just think that scanning and reconstructing complex machinery might not be that simple after all.

[jake williams]

This whole thread is ludicrous. 3D printers are an important and growing technology for technical applications, but the idea that manufacturing technology becoming more efficient is good for the working class and leads to less capitalism and more socialism is basically the opposite of what's gone on in the world for the last 40 years or so (among other things). And this sort of technology isn't even projected to do anything to produce housing, food, or drugs, not to mention the raw materials of 3D printers in the first place, or the services people use. One can imagine 3D synthetic apple in principle, but it would be absurdly inefficient in almost any, even hypothetical, situation.

3D printers are being hyped by a) journalists who make a business of hyping everything and b) entrepreneurs (ie. capitalists) who also make a business of hyping everything.

[piet11111]

In the future it might undermine the copyright system similar to how internet pirating is slowly making expensive Mp3's seem ridiculous.

But for me it wont be interesting until it can do metal too and fast enough to use for creating parts for my unimog.

[Hoplite]

Notice that the whole surface of the gargoyle is visible from outside of it. This is why I gave an example of an object that cannot be scanned properly if parts of the scanner do not enter the inside of it. Have this type of objects been replicated yet ?
To my limited knowledge, no. But I see no reason it couldnt be done.


There's no reason for anyone to go without them now, except that the means of producing them are owned by the capitalists.
And what technologies like 3d printing do is to take the means of production out of the hands of the capitalists :)

[Amphictyonis]

Capitalism or production under capitalism takes investment. What venture capitalist is going to invest in anything that could make profits go kaput? Even science is run by profits/investors. If a scientific discovery can't make money it doesn't get produced. It's that simple. Now what makes you think a thing that not only wouldn't make money but could have the chance at destroying all profits would ever get produced under capitalism?

[Hoplite]

Capitalism or production under capitalism takes investment. What venture capitalist is going to invest in anything that could make profits go kaput? Even science is run by profits/investors. If a scientific discovery can't make money it doesn't get produced. It's that simple. Now what makes you think a thing that not only wouldn't make money but could have the chance at destroying all profits would ever get produced under capitalism?
Because a Capitalist will sell you the rope you use to hang him with. The profit motive is that imperative and that blinding, people will sell ANYTHING. Even if 99% of the retailers or manufacturers in the world wont touch it, SOMEONE will. Some semi-rich dickhead will invest a couple hundred thousand to start selling 3d printers to make himself richer without caring what the end result will be. People do it all the time, look at cigarettes.

Additionally, you CANT keep information out of people's hands. Even if you manage to stop everyone from selling these things commercially, you cant stop plans from leaking out onto the internet and a small community springing up to build them. Once that happens, it's all over.

[Amphictyonis]

People will cause a social/economic revolution not some printer. Cigarettes?

[Hoplite]

People will cause a social/economic revolution not some printer. Cigarettes?
Gutenberg would disagree.

The printer represents a fundamental shift in our way of looking at the world. Just as the printing press changed the way we fundamentally view the world and information, so a 3d printing machine can change the way we view the concepts of labor and supply.

Yes, cigarettes. They're a PR nightmare; no other product on the marketplace, if used correctly, kills it's user by it's very design. Logically, you shouldnt be able to make ANY money off of cigarettes, who the fuck would buy them? If I handed you a drink that you knew would give you ten different kinds of cancers, make you smell and look like crap, shorten your lifespan, make your life more expensive, and is highly addictive BUT, you'd look like a sexy motherfucker while drinking it, would you drink it?

People will sell ANYTHING if it makes them money.

[Delenda Carthago]

Τhe means to automate the whole production procedure is already available.The fact that capitalists dont use the technology even though it would make them more competitive than the rest of them is mostly I think the fact that the only class in our times that really has a class consciousness,is the capitalists.They know that this is gonna be the end of them,that's why they dont invest on this.

This technology though is different.Because nowdays is cheap.This is the new revelation about it,the fact that its gonne very cheap,otherwise its been around for decades already.So now its on our hands to develope it and improve it.And that's what its all about...

[RED DAVE]

Consider that the Industrial Revolution was very conducive to a vertical economic system, like Capitalism. If we have a new Industrial Revolution with technology such as 3d printing, programmable matter, nanotechnology, etc etc, that is conducive to a much more diverse economic system.So what? The essence of capitalism, or socialism, is not industrial technique, it's industrial control.


We arent locked into having to buy what we need or want from the people that produce it and set an arbitrary price, WE produce it ourselves.Nonsense. Where do you get your raw materials? Where do you house your equipment? How do you compete with capitalists?

This is a utopian, hippy fantasy.

RED DAVE

[Delenda Carthago]

Τhe newspaper article, google translated.I hope it makes any sense at all...

Slowly but surely the three-dimensional printers make a shocking scale technological revolution in productive forces, making it extremely inexpensive cost of construction not only of everyday products, but also food and even buildings. As a result the market for manual labor force tends to be displaced by the intellectual labor market strength.


Nikitas GERANIS


In the three-dimensional printing capabilities mellonEkriktikes
"We have technology that can make things more complicated than we can plan." The words belong to the head of the Research Group of the British Prosthetics Friday Loughborough University Professor Richard Hague and listed in printing technology ... three-dimensional objects. </span>The manufacture of prosthetic (additive manufacturing), also known as three-dimensional printing, working with the same logic function printers today. Only the position of the ink used a material such as metal or plastic powder. Printer solidify the material in successive layers until it shows a real three-dimensional object. The technique can already be applied to any consumer product that consists of a material, from jewelry to furniture. The prospects are endless, and engineers envision already printing entire buildings ....
The three-dimensional printers have been the age of thirty years. The exorbitant cost, but did ban their use for mass production. Used mainly for production of small scale models, such as cars, for the purpose of testing before the final entry in the product line. </span>In recent years the cost of printers has fallen dramatically along with the great expansion potential. Products can be printed knows no limits as to design, shape and functionality. The printer can print anything that can be designed in a computer program from a three-dimensional design. The potential, however, even the current printers are greater than the design capacity of current programs!
Not far away the season you can by pressing a button on the current computer, to print an object that can construct the most modern factory. </span>Not far from being able to surf the internet and download example the design of a shoe, to working out, choosing size, color, material and who knows what else. Maybe we can eg to scan the foot with our camera phone us and we pass these data to design the shoe, resulting in a completely customized product, which will be printed in our office or a local center of three-dimensional printing. </span>Miracle? Fiction? Not! There are already websites that print your creations with the procedure just described. We are a breath of a great revolutionary change in productive forces.


Neither miracle nor science fiction

Compared with traditional methods of production objects three-dimensional printing offers strategic advantages. First of all make redundant the traditional line of production and processes, achieving dramatic cost reductions. Then, the same printer can print very different objects without the machine configuration for each of them. Instead, the factory production line can produce a single product. To produce a slightly different focus required expensive customization of equipment. The three-dimensional printing is used both hardware just solidifies the final product, resulting in savings of up to 90% in feedstock. In the traditional production line, most of the raw material is discarded. All this makes the three-dimensional printing more economical. Moreover, there is no difference in the cost of printing an object or many.
The three-dimensional printing allows the creation of objects much better than those that can be obtained by conventional methods. The superiority lies in both the design and the quality of the object, and thus functionality. The forms and shapes that can be printed is inexhaustible and able to achieve incredible detail. According to the Hague, the three-dimensional printing technology allows the designer virtually unlimited freedom. "In a release from the constraints of traditional manufacturing methods. Changes the type of products you can make and how you plan things. You can make very complex geometries. It is almost as close to nirvana as you can get »(Jon Excell, Stuart Nathan,« The rise of additive manufacturing: In-depth », http://www.theengineer.co.uk).
An idea gives us a laboratory for innovation aerospace company EADS-produced aircraft including Airbus-where three-dimensional printing technology used to manufacture components for aircraft landing gear. </span>As the three-dimensional printer can print much more complex shapes with greater accuracy than can be produced at the factory, the printing is limited to parts of the component receiving the load. </span>The result is a device that weighs less than half compared to that produced by conventional methods, is just the same performance and for making use 26 times less material.
</span>In another challenging area, the production of artificial bone, is being utilized to achieve different densities of material in different parts of the same artificial bone. </span>This makes it possible types of artificial bones porous surface at the point of connecting with the living bone so that bone grows into the pores of prothematos.Allo advantage of three-dimensional printing is that every object types can be differentiated from the former without </span>extra cost - something considered unthinkable for mass production. This will enable the printing of personalized items at low cost - which can utilize right now medicine.
The prospects of three-dimensional printing technique is entyposikes, and we are just the beginning. In horizon decade is expected to pass through the printing material in a single simultaneous printing of several materials. It allows the production of objects made of different materials, different properties and printing product in electronic circuits, optical fiber, and even sensors. </span>It is possible to print electronic components or entire electronics. The workshop's innovative plans such as EADS printing entire wing of the aircraft, maintaining the functionality and their electronic circuits and greatly reducing their weight. But the development of their own frightening printers expected improvements in speed and print quality.
The technique does not seem to know no limits in size of the produced object. The Center for Rapid Automated Production Technology, University of South Carolina used three-dimensional printing technique to print an entire program ... buildings or settlements. </span>The program is experimenting with building materials suitable for printing from a giant printer that looks like a large crane from which hangs a nozzle. </span>The walls of the building printed plumbing and electrical building. The program aims to enable a house 185 m be printed in just one day with almost no human work! If the program or similar, successful, will talk about one of the most significant revolutions in construction, affecting the architecture of buildings and cities.
</span>The possibility of printing even eating ... may seem extreme. Pablo Holmes, a former hacker and now inventor Intelektoual Ventouris working on the idea of a printer that makes a meal, "cooking" it, with droplet droplet and by controlling computer every detail of nutrients.
</span>The question reasonably arises therefore is whether the three-dimensional printing technique can be mastered on the site where now reigns mass production. According to experts, the traditional production line will not cease to exist. It will however appear facilities will use only the three-dimensional printing and three-dimensional printers will make their appearance in the trade in the form of eg </span>dimensional printing plants - something like the current copier centers, but for physical objects.
In our view, the new technology will displace much of the old as it is cheaper and more effective, but mainly because it responds to the trend of the season for widespread use of computer and change the relationship between science and manual labor in the process </span>production. And indeed, the first and most striking result of three-dimensional printing, to the extent that widespread and refined, is much greater displacement of manual labor from production. </span>Indeed, some believe that countries with very cheap labor, like China, they will lose their competitive advantage (The Economist, 12 Φεβ. 2011, p. 11). Simultaneously, the construction of a multitude of simple and complex objects is extremely easy and fthini.Apo the other, autonomy almost entirely a product from idea to realization. </span>Each product can be a file in 'my documents' or rather 'my products' of a computer, regardless of when, where or how many times will "print". Subsequently, all production companies are converted into practical information technology companies. Their products are not tangible objects, but electronic files can be converted into tangible objects, like a text file that can be printed in a thousand different printer or a music file that can be played in countless syskefes.I idea on our product </span>labor, production changes dramatically. Progress is a decisive shift in the level of intellectual work for the conception and design of goods and loses its importance, because it simplifies, "degenerate" at a "click" - the stage of manufacture of goods, implementation of the idea. </span>The simplification of material production in conjunction with the savings in raw materials and means an unprecedented opportunity abundance of goods, less work, with the same or fewer raw materials and with less energy.
</span>Along with this shift occurs and a new form of productive and social setting around the university and research center, next to the traditional constitution of society around the factory, industrial zone or agricultural production. </span>The market for manual labor force tends to be relegated from the market of ideas, namely the intellectual workforce. They lose their importance as transport goods if the goods are located where the printer, while gaining in importance of networks and especially the Internet.
Fields instead of primary production in agriculture and the extraction of raw materials, continues with the current data to dominate the production ekmichanismeni hand, but still crucial role of manual labor.
</span>Challenged the law of axiasPeriorizetai constricting the ability to raise capital gains
Many see the three-dimensional printing can move the factory to your home or office, or return to the romantic era of the lone manufacturer that designs and builds his own product, without the mediation of high apoxenotiki production. </span>Indeed, given each of us the opportunity to make much of the goods needed at home with the push of a button. Indeed, an online community (reprap.org) based on the principles of open source has developed a printer that can build itself with less than 400 euros. </span>The machine manufactures plastic items that can be designed with appropriate software, which the community provides opportunities dorean.Tetoies really impressive. </span>The future, however, is not a factory one can make at home, but to collectives working in product development, whose final physical construction has become so easy, becoming indifferent. </span>At this point, simplifying production, commodity relations are unnecessary barrier to exchange products based on the value obsolete. It is rewarding to have one free online product of intellectual community, collegiality, his company, an electronic file, ie a few bytes, in exchange for free access to the constellation of electronic files generated by other groups, communities or </span>companies. Video files that can be turned into physical objects very simple and very cheap at the touch of a button. In other words, why provide free one to the other the product of his work, in this case an electronic file on the Internet, and not sell it for a return? Selling because it will get in return something similar to what sells. </span>While disposing of the free will have unlimited free access to a huge pool of products from other manufacturers. A prerequisite for such a relationship is the objectification of digital files to tangible goods is very simple and fthini.Me terms of political economy, the degree of automation of production involves three-dimensional printing irreparably hurt the law of value and ability to raise capital gains. </span>The involvement of human labor to produce goods is so small that their profit margins shrink. In contrast, the share of production methods and products in the community of producers to facilitate the development and manufacture products to meet the needs of the economy on natural resources and environmentally friendly.
</span>Patents apantisiAfxanetai the exploitation ¨ Unemployment Rise
O capitalist mode of production can not incorporate such technological revolutions only a reactive manner. So while new technology makes it even more possible and necessary the abolition of private ownership of the means of production and free love on the expertise and products of intellectual work, the integration of the current production will take place in forms and regression antidrasis.Kat first </span>The new technology can not be exploited or used only marginally. Because goodwill produces only human labor, it is possible multinational giants to consider that it is more convenient to have with outdated methods that rely on the exploitation of human labor in factories - sweatshops in countries with cheap labor cheria.Malista because they will have to compete with new </span>machines, the exploitation of workers will be even more entoni.An not entirely, a large part of production will continue to be outdated although methods could be applied to new technology. </span>Moreover, trying to balance the declining rate of profit from new technology, companies will try to increase the utilization in the industries the handiwork keeps its strategic rolo.Stin extraction of raw materials and agricultural work would be even more repugnant </span>than today. But the level of modern intellectual capacity to try the maximum holding, with the most flexible labor relations and labor without dikaiomata.Sto front computer files internet marketing companies will respond with a complex system of patents and patenting intellectual property rights. </span>The Economist notes that "lawyers are no doubt rubbing their hands" as the legal framework for intellectual property and anti-computer hacking may need reconsideration. </span>The battle of the bourgeoisie to halt the trend of socialization of digital goods, the potential of the entire spiritual wealth, that will increase because in this mosaic of digital goods will integrate the design of material goods as a result of preparation with </span>the method of dimensional ektyposis.I unemployment is perhaps the most tragic consequence of the three-dimensional printing technology in the context of totalitarian capitalism. </span>The need for less manpower, which means the new technology will not result in a reduction of working hours and increasing prosperity. In contrast, the declining rate of profit will increase, will bring even greater exploitation of workers, with more work, less investment capital will stagnate and can not be placed profitable growth and persistent unemployment - a large proportion of the labor population </span>will be permanent unless paragogis.Tis conditions for an even bigger crisis than the present will create the capitalist exploitation of new technology. At the same time, there might be for the first time in history requirements strategic leadership of the working interests within their own sphere of production.</span></span>

[Hit The North]

This is so fuckin great news I feel like fuckin go out and have a drink or two.:lol:

Well, your lovely alcohol will be something beyond the capabilities of 3-D printing. Not to mention food. And you can't manufacture a teacher or a nurse or a cleaner, so human labour will not disappear completely or even mainly.

Of course Marx talks about the way in which capitalist development undermines the basis for its own existence and technology is a major factor in this. Already the internet and digital downloading has severely undermined copyright which is nothing more than intellectual private property.

Private property can only be maintained when the production and distribution of resources can be monopolised. Any technology which threatens this monopoly undermines the security of bourgeois property relations but not without resistance from the bourgeoisie, meaning class struggle becomes the only way of securing its final abolition.

[Hoplite]

So what? The essence of capitalism, or socialism, is not industrial technique, it's industrial control. And control over industry can be wrested from the hands of the Capitalists with technologies such as 3d printing, I've been saying this for a while now.


Nonsense. Where do you get your raw materials? Where do you house your equipment? How do you compete with capitalists? Eventually, raw material can be obtained from anywhere; waste broken down on the molecular level can serve as feedstock for such machines.

Last I checked, we still had houses.

The ability to create almost anything out of waste vs paying retail....

[Delenda Carthago]

Well, your lovely alcohol will be something beyond the capabilities of 3-D printing. Not to mention food. And you can't manufacture a teacher or a nurse or a cleaner, so human labour will not disappear completely or even mainly.

Of course Marx talks about the way in which capitalist development undermines the basis for its own existence and technology is a major factor in this. Already the internet and digital downloading has severely undermined copyright which is nothing more than intellectual private property.

Private property can only be maintained when the production and distribution of resources can be monopolised. Any technology which threatens this monopoly undermines the security of bourgeois property relations but not without resistance from the bourgeoisie, meaning class struggle becomes the only way of securing its final abolition.
Are you a marxist?

[ChrisK]

And control over industry can be wrested from the hands of the Capitalists with technologies such as 3d printing, I've been saying this for a while now.

Eventually, raw material can be obtained from anywhere; waste broken down on the molecular level can serve as feedstock for such machines.

Last I checked, we still had houses.

The ability to create almost anything out of waste vs paying retail....

You cannot out produce them. You cannot afford a 3d printer that produces all the stuff you want. In fact, they can and will be laughing at your pathetic utopian attempts at taking control of the means of production by buying a 3d printer.

[Dimentio]

In 20 years, there will be technologies able to print cars.

But in itself, it won't bring in Communism. It will bring in a society where 50% are unemployed or hired in "serf-like" conditions, like the Swedish FAS-3.

[Delenda Carthago]

If anyone by reading me understood that by itself the technology will bring communism, I am very sorry.All I m sayin is that technology will create the situation where we will be able to create communism.This is the deal,not that technology will mean communism alone.

[Revy]

In 20 years, there will be technologies able to print cars.

But in itself, it won't bring in Communism. It will bring in a society where 50% are unemployed or hired in "serf-like" conditions, like the Swedish FAS-3.

A society where 50% are unemployed is not a system that can resist revolution. The capitalist economy also depends on money being spent, but if you are unemployed, you can't spend anything. Without people to buy products what money is there to be made? That is why capitalists will never push for such a situation. Robotics has only been implemented as a means of more efficient production but there is no push to replace human workers with robots.

Automation is only compatible with a socialist economy where everything is free of charge. It is not compatible with capitalism, because capitalism needs human workers to exist as an economic system. Capitalism with widespread automation is not capitalism.

[ComradeOm]

In 20 years, there will be technologies able to print carsYeah, no there won't. Do you have any idea of the complexity involved in manufacturing a car? The idea that we'll all be doing this in our homes or that a 3D printer can simply churn out a vehicle is ludicrous

Really, I don't think people understand what we're talking about here. Do you think that companies temper steel for the fun of it? Do you think that you could get the same effect from, say, simple powder metallurgy? There are countless different materials (with associated properties) and fabrication techniques because there are countless different design requirements. 3D printing is a useful technique that will play an increasing role in production. To suggest that it is going to supplant every other manufacturing method or revolutionise the production of goods is frankly stupid

[Amphictyonis]

The 'Technomancers' name says it all :) Romantic notions concerning technology :) I mean no offense Technomancer- I know you mean well.

[Ocean Seal]

This stuff looks pretty sweet. Who knows. Maybe in twenty years people can have their very own factories at home. Although, I would think that it would be difficult to replicate electronics as transistors are rather small. In any case this is the perfect complement to software piracy.

[ckaihatsu]

This stuff looks pretty sweet. Who knows. Maybe in twenty years people can have their very own factories at home. Although, I would think that it would be difficult to replicate electronics as transistors are rather small. In any case this is the perfect complement to software piracy.


Yeah, if your 3-D-printed robot does your piracy for you, is it really illegal -- ?


x D

[ckaihatsu]

Consider that the Industrial Revolution was very conducive to a vertical economic system, like Capitalism. If we have a new Industrial Revolution with technology such as 3d printing, programmable matter, nanotechnology, etc etc, that is conducive to a much more diverse economic system. We arent locked into having to buy what we need or want from the people that produce it and set an arbitrary price, WE produce it ourselves.


I'm actually open to this line of reasoning, for a possible realistic near-future civilization. While society *is* a matter of social relations, there's nothing to say that (industrial and/or consumer) production *has* to be *socialized*.

If capitalism -- or a socialist revolution -- could happen to bring about individualized energy production and robust self-replicating consumer devices from 3-D printing using commonly available waste materials, then perhaps mass industrial production itself would become obsolete and go by the wayside of history....





3D printers are being hyped by a) journalists who make a business of hyping everything and b) entrepreneurs (ie. capitalists) who also make a business of hyping everything.


3-D printers are being roundly dismissed by those pundits who make political capital out of dismissing everything....


8 p



(Also, I think that "3-D" is actually an emoticon that shows a guy who enjoys getting a pair of boobs dropped in on top of his head. Just sayin'...!)


= D

[Hoplite]

You cannot out produce them. You cannot afford a 3d printer that produces all the stuff you want. In fact, they can and will be laughing at your pathetic utopian attempts at taking control of the means of production by buying a 3d printer.That is currently the case, but technology is advancing at an extremely rapid rate.


The 'Technomancers' name says it all :) Romantic notions concerning technology :) I mean no offense Technomancer- I know you mean well.
Have you missed where I've described myself as a "Transhumanistic Socialist"?

[Amphictyonis]

That is currently the case, but technology is advancing at an extremely rapid rate.


Have you missed where I've described myself as a "Transhumanistic Socialist"?

Ya no I get it, it's just technology will never create the world you're looking for, the world we're looking for, without a human social revolution. Thats all I'm saying. :) California Revlefters in the house by the way. Is there a CA group on here yet?

[Dimentio]

A society where 50% are unemployed is not a system that can resist revolution. The capitalist economy also depends on money being spent, but if you are unemployed, you can't spend anything. Without people to buy products what money is there to be made? That is why capitalists will never push for such a situation. Robotics has only been implemented as a means of more efficient production but there is no push to replace human workers with robots.

Automation is only compatible with a socialist economy where everything is free of charge. It is not compatible with capitalism, because capitalism needs human workers to exist as an economic system. Capitalism with widespread automation is not capitalism.

Capitalism with widespread automation would be quasi-fascist.

In today's Sweden, those who are unemployed for too long time are told that they are socially incompetent and unemployable and are placed in a programme where they receive minimum living standard benefits in return for having to work for free for private companies. It is also created an atmosphere where people on such "benefits" are stigmatised, to make it difficult for them to organise.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

People will cause a social/economic revolution not some printer. Cigarettes?

Who do you think would be operating those 3D printers? Mice? People and technology are intertwined.

[RedStarOverChina]

I read this on the Economist, and I'm not sure if this will empower workers or make them "obsolete". Only time will tell.

[Delenda Carthago]

I think the point of discussion should be whether the decentralised means of production could bring communism or not.All the other technical stuff is kinda bullshit anyway.The same goes in focusing only in 3d printers.The point is that production shows a direction of decentralisation.And this will bring changes to our society as we all who have read Marx know.The point of the thread is to discuss which do we think will they be and what we can do with it.

[Thirsty Crow]

And what technologies like 3d printing do is to take the means of production out of the hands of the capitalists :)
Can't you see the problem with your proposition?

If we assume that certain technological advances are conducive to a creation kind of a socioeconomic system which is NOT based on the profit motive, we are forced to conclude two things:

1) there might be a way to utilize the technology and keeping the wage labour-capital relation intact

2) that the technology will not be implemented precisely because it is not amenable to control on gorunds of property rights in capitalism

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Can't you see the problem with your proposition?

If we assume that certain technological advances are conducive to a creation kind of a socioeconomic system which is NOT based on the profit motive, we are forced to conclude two things:

1) there might be a way to utilize the technology and keeping the wage labour-capital relation intact

2) that the technology will not be implemented precisely because it is not amenable to control on gorunds of property rights in capitalism

Or how about 3), they try to enforce property rights and fail miserably, like they've done with digital media. The industry is changing in response, which is why you can download songs off iTunes for pennies and why you can subscribe to Spotify. Despite this, it's still ridiculously easy for anyone with the slightest tech savvy and an internet connection to get media for free.

Sure, I don't think it's likely to happen with physical products any time soon, communist society may end up coming about for other reasons beforehand. But if it does happen, and there's no reason why it shouldn't if we manage to avoid getting wiped out, then it would be enormously easier to establish materially self-sufficient enclaves. Or at least the ability to manufacture one's own spare parts.

[ChrisK]

That is currently the case, but technology is advancing at an extremely rapid rate.


And then when its affordable to all to have one of these the capitalists will use an even better thing to produce things that we can't afford.

I own a printer, but I still go to the bookstore for my books.

[Amphictyonis]

Who do you think would be operating those 3D printers? Mice? People and technology are intertwined.

Lets all stop organizing and focus all our energy on 3-d printers! No need for a social revolution. No. No way. If we all just relax in 100 years capitalism/hierarchical society will just wither away under technology. Fuck socialism. It's all about technology! Wishful thinking.

(sorry if I can't take that view)

[ckaihatsu]

Everyone -- there's nothing incorrect about taking a mass-abstentionist position in regards to capitalism and capitalist production -- it would be the economic equivalent of a continual mass workers' strike, worldwide, into the indefinite future.

While comrades may be more-traditional or more-technological with their *own*, consumer-based tool usage, as a *political* matter we should be firmly on the side of making more more-accessible *options* available to people -- if that requires superseding mass industrial production altogether, then that may very well turn out to be a feasible and effective strategic (political) path.

[Dimentio]

Yeah, no there won't. Do you have any idea of the complexity involved in manufacturing a car? The idea that we'll all be doing this in our homes or that a 3D printer can simply churn out a vehicle is ludicrous

Really, I don't think people understand what we're talking about here. Do you think that companies temper steel for the fun of it? Do you think that you could get the same effect from, say, simple powder metallurgy? There are countless different materials (with associated properties) and fabrication techniques because there are countless different design requirements. 3D printing is a useful technique that will play an increasing role in production. To suggest that it is going to supplant every other manufacturing method or revolutionise the production of goods is frankly stupid

There are car factories already where no humans are involved. You seem to be driven mostly by anger.

[ComradeOm]

There are car factories already where no humans are involved. You seem to be driven mostly by anger.Well I am becoming slightly peeved. First of all, show me a car factory that involves no humans. I'd like to see these machines maintain themselves, purchase their own materials, set production plans, etc, etc. Secondly, please explain how on earth this is relevant to 3D printing

[Hoplite]

Ya no I get it, it's just technology will never create the world you're looking for, the world we're looking for, without a human social revolution.
And I feel that advancing technologies will increase the likelihood of that happening, peacefully or otherwise.


Can't you see the problem with your proposition?

If we assume that certain technological advances are conducive to a creation kind of a socioeconomic system which is NOT based on the profit motive, we are forced to conclude two things:

1) there might be a way to utilize the technology and keeping the wage labour-capital relation intact I dont see how, unless companies create a situation that WILL force a violent response.


2) that the technology will not be implemented precisely because it is not amenable to control on gorunds of property rights in capitalism
You cant control things the way you used to be able to. There are kits and plans available on the internet to build rudimentary versions of this technology. There will ALWAYS be a grey market for these kinds of things and with the internet, you CAN acquire things you arent supposed to have. All it takes is for a few people to get their hands on this and start distributing more and the system is undone.


And then when its affordable to all to have one of these the capitalists will use an even better thing to produce things that we can't afford.

I own a printer, but I still go to the bookstore for my books.
Point taken, but I would submit that printing books is not the same as physically creating an item from the ground up.


Lets all stop organizing and focus all our energy on 3-d printers! No need for a social revolution. No. No way. If we all just relax in 100 years capitalism/hierarchical society will just wither away under technology. Fuck socialism. It's all about technology! Wishful thinking.

(sorry if I can't take that view)
I wouldnt say stop organizing, but I think it would benefit us to focus more on what advanced technology can help us achieve. Once we have an understanding of this, we can advance much better prepared.

This kind of technology is the precursor to things like programmable matter and nanofactories; the true holy grail of human technology. With 3d printing, you assemble smaller parts to make bigger ones. With a nanofactory, you are physically creating an item from base molecules.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqyZ9bFl_qg

Once this is achieved, you will have no further need of Capitalism.

[piet11111]

I own a printer, but I still go to the bookstore for my books.

Let me guess you do not own an E-reader and because of it you do not pirate E-books ?

[Black Sheep]

Brb , buying concrete for my epson printer

[Amphictyonis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqyZ9bFl_qg

Once this is achieved, you will have no further need of Capitalism.

There has been no further need for capitalism in advanced capitalist nations for quite some time. What keeps it from going away? Capitalists. Capitalists will not put an end to their own rule by investing in a self replicating magic printer that can do anything everything under the sun - in fact they would murder and destroy entire populations to keep it from happening. What do you think all their anti union efforts were/are for? What do you think the cold war(s) was about? You underestimate the 'super' capitalists dedication to this system- a system which allows them to be gods on earth.

Advanced technology under capitalism isn't going to get rid of capitalism, perhaps slowly (over a couple generations) a new system may evolve/emerge but a social revolution is necessary to end capitalism swiftly. A social revolution is needed to end hierarchical systems of control.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Didn't they try to ban the printing press? Why should we think today's capitalists would be any more successful than yesterday's feudal lords?

[ComradeOm]

Why should we think today's capitalists would be any more successful than yesterday's feudal lords?You mean aside from the incomparably greater control exercised by the modern state apparatus?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You mean aside from the incomparably greater control exercised by the modern state apparatus?

Like what, exactly? I'm not a serf - I'm not tied to a particular piece of land. Capitalism is hardly paradise but the fact remains that despite increased surveillance and so-called "anti-terrorist" legislation, I still have a great deal more access to information and materials, as well as freedom of movement, than any medieval peasant. Hell, I get better dental care than the nobility did.

Let looks at filesharing as an example again - sure, with a modern police force it wouldn't be too hard to find and destroy a full-size printing press. But since now every internet-connected computer from a desktop to an iPhone is effectively it's own printing press, it's simply unfeasible to ask the enforcers to go through every single computer in the country with a fine-toothed comb on the off chance of seditious material.

So yeah, what does it matter if the authorities trash your fabrication facilities if the plans can be downloaded for free and the materials easily recovered? Just hide it better next time.

[ChrisK]

Let me guess you do not own an E-reader and because of it you do not pirate E-books ?

No, I have problems reading on a screen. Reading a lot on a screen gives me a migraine and since I read a lot, books are necessary.

[ComradeOm]

Like what, exactly?Police forces, vastly expanded central bureaucracies, secret police and counter-intelligence agencies, increased censorship, unprecedented data on individuals, professional armies, etc, etc. There is no question that a modern state apparatus is vastly more powerful than its feudal predecessors. There are also plenty of examples of states using these extensive powers quite effectively in crushing opposition movements


So yeah, what does it matter if the authorities trash your fabrication facilities if the plans can be downloaded for free and the materials easily recovered? Just hide it better next time.Which will be useful if we ever decide to all live on the internet

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Police forces, vastly expanded central bureaucracies, secret police and counter-intelligence agencies, increased censorship, unprecedented data on individuals, professional armies, etc, etc. There is no question that a modern state apparatus is vastly more powerful than its feudal predecessors. There are also plenty of examples of states using these extensive powers quite effectively in crushing opposition movements

In that case, if the capitalist state apparatus is that powerful, we are stuffed with or without rapid fabrication technologies.


Which will be useful if we ever decide to all live on the internet

You underestimate the importance of information. It can be just as vital as food or electricity - a lack of information can kill.

Just why the hell do you seem to think that the internet is some kind of isolated netherworld? It's structure and content exist because we put it there.

[Hoplite]

There has been no further need for capitalism in advanced capitalist nations for quite some time. What keeps it from going away? Capitalists. Capitalists will not put an end to their own rule by investing in a self replicating magic printer that can do anything everything under the sun Yes, they will. For the same reason they print Socialist and anti-Capitalist literature, if SOMEONE thinks they can make a buck, they'll sell ANYTHING. You severely under-estimate the greed factor.


in fact they would murder and destroy entire populations to keep it from happening. What do you think all their anti union efforts were/are for? What do you think the cold war(s) was about? You underestimate the 'super' capitalists dedication to this system- a system which allows them to be gods on earth. In that case, you'll have your violent revolution.

Suppression of information is not as easy as it sounds. Even countries that have entire ministries of the government devoted to making sure that you only view state television and read approved materials have a thriving underground of banned materials and blacklisted information still gets in and out. Even the most repressive regimes on earth cannot stop the flow of information.


Advanced technology under capitalism isn't going to get rid of capitalism, perhaps slowly (over a couple generations) a new system may evolve/emerge but a social revolution is necessary to end capitalism swiftly. A social revolution is needed to end hierarchical systems of control. Why cant technological advances make a social revolution more likely?


No, I have problems reading on a screen. Reading a lot on a screen gives me a migraine and since I read a lot, books are necessary.
As a side note, you should try an e-ink display. It's essentially a matrix of very small balls with one side colored white and the other side black. The different sides also react differently to electricity, so by running current through the display a particular way, some of the balls flip to the black side while others stay white. The effect is remarkably similar to real paper because it's not an electronically generated image that you're looking at. A lot of people I know who have problems reading large amounts of text on screens have good experiences with e-ink display readers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_Ink

[/geek]

[ComradeOm]

In that case, if the capitalist state apparatus is that powerful, we are stuffed with or without rapid fabrication technologiesNo. A collapse in the authority/capabilities of the governing state is a prerequisite of all revolutions. As Lenin succinctly put it: "It is only when the "lower classes" do not want to live in the old way and the "upper classes" cannot carry on in the old way that the revolution can triumph"


You underestimate the importance of information. It can be just as vital as food or electricity - a lack of information can killNot in the same way as starvation. The internet has been imbued with so much hype and mystique that its easy to lose sight of the fact that its just a network between computers. It does not produce any tangible goods. Its digital produce is most certainly not "as vital as food or electricity"

The internet is incredibly useful and important but it is no substitute for the actual physical production of actual material goods

[piet11111]

No, I have problems reading on a screen. Reading a lot on a screen gives me a migraine and since I read a lot, books are necessary.


But technology did create an alternative to access the content of a book and piracy made it freely available.

Clearly technology is undermining capitalism's ability to enforce property rights and that is progress.

[ChrisK]

But technology did create an alternative to access the content of a book and piracy made it freely available.

Clearly technology is undermining capitalism's ability to enforce property rights and that is progress.

Barely. Publishing companies don't seem to worry about it too much since they're still making money.

[Hoplite]

Not in the same way as starvation. The internet has been imbued with so much hype and mystique that its easy to lose sight of the fact that its just a network between computers. It does not produce any tangible goods. Its digital produce is most certainly not "as vital as food or electricity"

The internet is incredibly useful and important but it is no substitute for the actual physical production of actual material goods
I have to agree with Xion. While I agree that the internet may not produce any physical goods, I think it's just as important in terms of access to information.

Revolutions and change happens with access to information. The internet is one of the biggest and best avenues to that. Many of the recent uprisings in the Middle East and Africa have taken place because different groups were able to coordinate and get the word out over the internet.

[Amphictyonis]

Yes, they will. For the same reason they print Socialist and anti-Capitalist literature, if SOMEONE thinks they can make a buck, they'll sell ANYTHING. You severely under-estimate the greed factor.


[/geek]

All that would be needed is one printer and it could self replicate. Where's the money in that?

T2PyyO1nv7I

We need socialism before such things are produced- these things being produced under capitalism will never happen and hence socialism will not just be a matter of letting capitalism evolve. We NEED a social revolution.

[Amphictyonis]

Many of the recent uprisings in the Middle East and Africa have taken place because different groups were able to coordinate and get the word out over the internet.

The CIA/NSA. I've come to the conclution the US has planned to introduce western capitalism to the middle east since the end of the cold war as a means to keep the market expanding and thus extending the life of capitalism. Somewhat in the same fashion the US (pre WW2) brought it's entire Navy to Japan and threatened to destroy them if they didn't 'open up their markets' to the US. I think what we're seeing in the middle east is a giant US intelligence operation. Part of the overall plan to 'westernize' the region. Soon there will be McDonalds all around Afghanistan, Yemen and Syria. They want to spread enlightenment principles while keeping the market fluid because capitalism must perpetually expand in order to exist.Capitalists and their various states aren't just letting the internet be- they're on here fucking with peoples minds just as they do through the main stream media. This topic would be for another thread though.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

All that would be needed is one printer and it could self replicate. Where's the money in that?

You don't sell the actual printers. What you sell is a service related to them - for example, assistance and troubleshooting for the average customer who may not have the time and inclination to learn for themselves the complete range of relevant skills.

As an analogy, the proliferation of DIY manuals and relatively cheap mass-produced power tools means that one can learn home improvement skills if one really needs or wants to, but plumbers and carpenters etc are still in business because most people don't.

Or, since fully-fledged 3D printers are likely to be on a similar level of complexity, a better analogy would be with open-source software (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software), particularly its commercial applications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_open_source_applications).

[Amphictyonis]

You don't sell the actual printers. What you sell is a service related to them - for example, assistance and troubleshooting for the average customer who may not have the time and inclination to learn for themselves the complete range of relevant skills.


Why not just have a friend print you another printer? This is a silly topic and essentially what you're saying is a social revolution isnt necessary because there will be a technological revolution which brings in socialism. I'm not trying to be rude or contrarian I just don't see capitalism melting away in such a manner.

We all may as well just sit back and enjoy the ride?

In my opinion the social revolution is necessary first in order to bring a truly liberating technological revolution.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Why not just have a friend print you another printer?

Unless your friend is the 3D printing equivalent of a programmer, he's unlikely to be much help.

Besides, like I said, you don't sell the actual printer or even the plans for it, you sell the related services. If you know somebody with the relevant skills who's willing to offer them to you for free or a reduced price, then that's good for you, much like knowing a plumber or a programmer would be, if you found their services necessary. But if you don't know anyone else, then you turn to the vendors.


This is a silly topic and essentially what you're saying is a social revolution isnt necessary because there will be a technological revolution which brings in socialism. I'm not trying to be rude or contrarian I just don't see capitalism melting away in such a manner.

We all may as well just sit back and enjoy the ride?

I don't recall ever saying that rapid fabrication technology would render revolution unnecessary - only that it would make it easier.

[NGNM85]

You don't sell the actual printers. What you sell is a service related to them - for example, assistance and troubleshooting for the average customer who may not have the time and inclination to learn for themselves the complete range of relevant skills.

As an analogy, the proliferation of DIY manuals and relatively cheap mass-produced power tools means that one can learn home improvement skills if one really needs or wants to, but plumbers and carpenters etc are still in business because most people don't.


This reminds me of a lecture I saw the other day by Arthur C. Clarke. He was talking about how computers and the internet have made media cheap, ubiquitous, and almost impossible to control, and that in this new age, rather than paying people for providing, or printing media, now people mostly pay various entities to edit media, to sift through the sea of data and find the bits they are looking for. One can see this in the growth of news aggregators, which are able to compete with news providers like CNN, etc.

[Hoplite]

All that would be needed is one printer and it could self replicate. Where's the money in that? Because foresight is not the strong point of many Capitalists. The dot com bubble is the perfect example, people threw MILLIONS at websites that had no purpose just because "OMG it's internets!" and there was a faint hope of making a dime more than they put in.

If there is ANY possibility of making money selling something, SOMEONE will sell it. You are seriously under-estimating the greed factor.

And the Tesla "free energy" stuff got squashed because it's ridiculous and doesnt actually work. It's against the laws of physics.


The CIA/NSA. I've come to the conclution the US has planned to introduce western capitalism to the middle east since the end of the cold war as a means to keep the market expanding and thus extending the life of capitalism. Somewhat in the same fashion the US (pre WW2) brought it's entire Navy to Japan and threatened to destroy them if they didn't 'open up their markets' to the US. I think what we're seeing in the middle east is a giant US intelligence operation. Part of the overall plan to 'westernize' the region. Soon there will be McDonalds all around Afghanistan, Yemen and Syria. They want to spread enlightenment principles while keeping the market fluid because capitalism must perpetually expand in order to exist.Capitalists and their various states aren't just letting the internet be- they're on here fucking with peoples minds just as they do through the main stream media. This topic would be for another thread though.
You do realize that many companies already have access to markets in the Middle East, right?

There are already McDonalds in dozens of different countries, including the Middle East.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_McDonald's_franchises

I'll agree they arent AS open as places like North America and Europe, but they are not NEARLY as locked off as Japan was when the US first decided to intervene.

Let's not get into conspiracy theories.

[Amphictyonis]

So now online PSYOPS is a conspiracy theory? The days of dropping leaflets are over. The western intelligence services have some very complicated ways of swaying public opinion- it's no conspiracy theory. Do you actually believe the bourgeois states around the globe would just leave public opinion up to chance or the whim of the people? I wish.

[Hoplite]

So now online PSYOPS is a conspiracy theory? I tend to stay on the skeptical side of ideas that involve secret government plans. I'm sure there has been thought put into this and I know there have been things like COINTELPRO, but for every COINTELPRO, there have been a thousand dubious claims of a COINTELPRO.


The western intelligence services have some very complicated ways of swaying public opinion- it's no conspiracy theory. Do you actually believe the bourgeois states around the globe would just leave public opinion up to chance or the whim of the people? I wish.Again, I'm sure there are such methods in place, but I dont see what they could do to incite revolution in the Middle East. Especially when such chaos ultimately works AGAINST the interests of those who want to maintain the status quo.

[Dr Mindbender]

My understanding is that these 'printers' can only produce objects consisting of a specific type of plastic. I think that sort of limits the range of products that one can produce.

[Hoplite]

My understanding is that these 'printers' can only produce objects consisting of a specific type of plastic. I think that sort of limits the range of products that one can produce.
At this stage in their evolution, yes it does.

This kind of technology is the precursor to things like this
(Yes, I already posted this, however I screwed up the link, here is the complete version)
vEYN18d7gHg

[Amphictyonis]

Again, I'm sure there are such methods in place,

:) I'm old and remember the old days when leaflets were dropped. Before the internet existed :)

[piet11111]

Barely. Publishing companies don't seem to worry about it too much since they're still making money.

Like how record company's are not worried about MP3 pirating ?

Ebook readers are still new and expensive but they are starting to take market share.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Many who have posted in this thread seem to have confused science fiction with science. Now, some, many or all the things comrades have said about these printers might come true; we will just have to wait and see.

However, I am old enough to recall many predictions like this that did not pan out. For example, we were told back in the late 1970s that the new automatied, computer-controlled technologies that were beginning to appear at that time would mean we'd all live lives of leisusre by the 1990s. Countless hours of TV were devoted to the question "What will we do with all that leisure time?"

I've not noticed much of that recently.

Quite the opposite, in fact; they want us to work until we drop (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/7764513/Queens-Speech-state-pension-age-could-rise-to-70.html).

Then, about the same time, we were told that the 'Green Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution)' would mean that within ten years starvation would be a thing of the past.

Ten years later, we had Ethiopia, Live Aid and Bob Geldorf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984%E2%80%931985_famine_in_Ethiopia).

[And can anyone recall UK Prime Minister Harold Wilson's 'White Heat of Technology (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4865498.stm)' speech in the mid-1960s; I can. That didn't pan out either.]

Then, earlier than even I can recall, in the late 1950s (http://www.suite101.com/content/sun-in-a-bottle-by-charles-seife-a127156) we were told that within a generation (i.e., about 20 years), nuclear fusion would mean endless supplies of cheap, even free energy.

I have not noticed much of that on my latest gas bill.

Check this out:

Sun in a Bottle by Charles Seife. The Strange History of Fusion and the Science of Wishful Thinking (http://www.amazon.com/Sun-Bottle-Strange-Thinking-ebook/dp/B001IH6WOM)

Finally, hardly a week goes by without, say, the New Scientist publishing an article about this or that aspect of science and technology that will take us into the Promised Land. I haven't seen an awful lot of these come to fruition, and I have been reading that magazine for far longer than most RevLefters have been alive.

So, my advice to those comrades transfixed by Gee Whiz Science like this: Get a grip.

[Hoplite]

This is an interesting article that shows a practical application for a kind of sister technology of 3D printing.

http://www.gizmag.com/eads-bristol-announces-nylon-airbike-manufactured-by-alm-technology/18094/

[ckaihatsu]

This is an interesting article that shows a practical application for a kind of sister technology of 3D printing.

http://images.gizmag.com/gallery_lrg/eadsairbike.JPG


So is that bike available as a torrent file?


= D

[NGNM85]

TED presentation on organ printing;

9RMx31GnNXY