The Greek Left

[Tommy4ever]

OK, can I request some help in understanding the politics of the Greek Left?

Firstly can someone describe the politics and the stance towards revolution of the following groups:

The KKE

SYRIZA

Democratic Left

ANTARSYA

Are there any other major groups I should be aware of? Since the above's strength can be measured by electoral performance (between the 4 groups they achieved 20% of the vote in the recent local elections) it is obviously easier to look at the size of these groups. But if there are any groups that don't use elections (I believe Anarchists have major influence in Greece) could someone give me an idea of their strength too?

Thanks, the situation in Greece is a little confusing for me and I don't feel I can trust wikipedia to tell me whether a group is actually communistic or not.

[Sasha]

the KKE issue i'm not touching with an ten foot pole, just do an search on the forums for that one the rest are more or less useless groups fighting for the remaining left-parlemental seats after the KKE took most.

the anarchist movement is mainly divided between the insurectionists and the AK (anti-authoritarian movement) wich is an somewhat platformist collection of more social-anarchist groups

[Savage]

I've been told that there's a growing fascist presence in Greece, can someone clarify?

[Tommy4ever]

the KKE issue i'm not touching with an ten foot pole, just do an search on the forums for that one the rest are more or less useless groups fighting for the remaining left-parlemental seats after the KKE took most.

the anarchist movement is mainly divided between the insurectionists and the AK (anti-authoritarian movement) wich is an somewhat platformist collection of more social-anarchist groups

Well I did as you suggest and put in a search for ''KKE Greece'' all I got were big flame wars between Leninists and Anarchists. What did I learn? Nothing. :(

Thanks for your info on the Anarchists though. Any idea of how significant their base of support is? Would Anarchists vote for one of the parliamentary Leftist parties I listed above or do you think they would avoid voting altogether?


I've been told that there's a growing fascist presence in Greece, can someone clarify?

I've heard the same thing but again details remain unclear. Are the fascists we keep hearing about these guys? LAOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Orthodox_Rally)

If so then they seem to be badly outnumbered with their share of the vote being less than half of the KKE's alone in the 2010 local elections (the leftists parties got 20% in all).

[Black Sheep]

Firstly can someone describe the politics and the stance towards revolution of the following groups:

The KKE

Stalinist party.Promotes a revolution in their programme, but only the "right one", which they will guide and lead to victory.The previous leads to gigantic sectarianism and borderline reactionary hostility against all other leftists.
It's the biggest party ~7.5 % in last elections (autum 09 ), 10% in last regional elections (nov 10 ) , and with the richest history of class struggle.


SYRIZA's a coalition of reformists,soc-dems,trots and maoists into a big heap of sectarianism and ambiguity.
SYN's the most powerful component,it's soc-dem, and so is SYRIZA.
SYN signed the Maastricht treaty back in the 90s.
They portray themselves as fans of riots,struggle, but only for advertising.THey go for "capitalism with a human face", "people above profit" etc

Democratic Left the most right-wing part of SYN who split.I believe no further explanation is required.

ANTARSYA a coalition of revolutionary lefties, mostly comprised of trots.You can imagine the sectarianism and the fighting.BIggest part of them is SEK (the greek SWP), which proposed in the last-last national elections, in the 2nd round, the voters to vote for PASOK.Go figure.


Are there any other major groups I should be aware of?
Define major.. KKE gets ~9%,SYRIZA got 4, i doubt Dem Left will get into parliament ( > 3% required) and ANTARSYA isn't.


But if there are any groups that don't use elections (I believe Anarchists have major influence in Greece) could someone give me an idea of their strength too?
Antiauthoritarian movement (AK) is (or rather was) kinda big.
http://www.resistance2003.gr/

DIODIASTOP is a movement against highway road tolls, painted with a libertarian leftist view and practice.
http://epitropesdiodiastop.blogspot.com/

There's the anarchosyndicalist ESE (definetely not big,but worthwhile).
http://athens.ese-gr.org/

[Sasha]

Well I did as you suggest and put in a search for ''KKE Greece'' all I got were big flame wars between Leninists and Anarchists. What did I learn? Nothing. :(

hence why is said i wont touch that one with an ten foot pole.
been around for years on this forum and the only opinions possible about the KKE seem to be either "glorious vanguard of the comming revolution" or "euro-stalinist stooges that not only will roll over for capitalism but stab any real revolutionary in the back"


Thanks for your info on the Anarchists though. Any idea of how significant their base of support is? Would Anarchists vote for one of the parliamentary Leftist parties I listed above or do you think they would avoid voting altogether?

dont know, better ask AttackGr (greek insurectionary anarchist/nihilist user) but i think the insurectionist reject als parlemtairy politics while some groups in the AK from time to time dont oppose an tactical vote on one of the smaller lefitist partys, wich is one of the reasons the insurectionists accuse AK of reformism.
also:

As was mentioned before, insurrectionary anarchist discourse also had relevance in Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Greece). In the 2008 Greek riots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Greek_riots) the old disputes between organizationalist and insurrectionary anarchists reappeared when there was a conflict "between insurrectionary anarchists associated with the Black Bloc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Bloc), and the heavily organized Antiauthoritarian Movement (AK, in Greek)...the schism between insurrectionists and the Antiauthoritarian Movement has even led to physical fighting...People with AK bullied and beat up anarchists whom they suspected of stealing some computers from the university during an event AK organized, getting them in trouble. In response, some insurrectionists burned down the Antiauthoritarian Movement's offices in Thessaloniki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thessaloniki)."[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrectionary_anarchism#cite_note-20)



I've heard the same thing but again details remain unclear. Are the fascists we keep hearing about these guys? LAOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Orthodox_Rally)

If so then they seem to be badly outnumbered with their share of the vote being less than half of the KKE's alone in the 2010 local elections (the leftists parties got 20% in all).

i think its more the nazi's of "golden dawn" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Dawn_%28Greece%29) they are refering too, who make even smaller electoral gains but have an dominating or threathing street pressence in some neighbourhoods

[Delenda Carthago]

I had wrote one of my biggest responces two days ago but the forum got messed up and it got deleted instead of posted so now if I get a litle bit laconic,please excuse me.

A.KKE is not stalinist.They declared stalinists two years ago,or actually they said that socialism was being constructed at that period, but since then they havent change anything in their structions, in their strategy or politics as they were before on a long line of socialfascism under the USSR guidance. They still are the most antidemocratic and bureocratic party in the fuckin country.

B.AK is not an anarchist organisation.They have declared anti-ideologic and pro direct democracy.They are influenced by the works of Raul Vanegem, Cornelius Castoriades, Znet,Howard Zinn and the likes.And they were pro-street violence in December.It was just that they were the only ones to make a "peacefull" demo during that days.And their offices were not being burned down.And they are against elections as everybody else.

C.LAOS is more of a populist-nationalist conservatives clowns than real fascist.Golden Dawn are "nationalist",as they claim,but they are more of a nazi party.They got 5% in the last elections for Athens,but with a small amount of people going to vote.On the same elections, KKE got up to 14,5%, ANTARSYA got 2,5% and some individuals leftists got elected in some other towns of Greece.

D.ANTARSYA is a coalition of smaller parties,none of them being trot.SEK,which is not the biggest party in there, claims trotskyist, but they are more of PASOK's left wing than anything.

E.I m not an anarchist.Or a "nihilist" if nihilism means...what it tends to mean nowdays.I m nothing.I m me.

PS.As far as I know, ESE doesnt really excist.

[bricolage]

@AttackGr (or anyone else), have you had an experience of Ta Paidia Tis Galarias (http://libcom.org/tags/tptg)? I've found the stuff they've written to be really impressive but don't know much about them beyond that. Devrim said the ICC met with them once but I think it was very informal.

[Delenda Carthago]

Lol dude, I know two of them,we used to go out for drinks some months ago.They are good comrades and their group is quite cool.But they mostly do stuff with other people from the anarchist milieu.I dont think they are more than 15 people over there.