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Q
25th February 2011, 18:10
So, Orbital Vector put up a nice blogpost (http://orbital-vector.blogspot.com/2011/02/nasas-exploration-mothership.html), which I'll just post here:


NASA's Exploration Mothership

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ou8RBuVxuyc/TWbhenAmzYI/AAAAAAAAAPM/7yEfI_abQL4/s320/nautilus%2BX.jpg

Its big. Its ugly. Its as graceful as a swan glued to an anvil.

I love it.

Its NASA's proposed Nautilus X ("Non-Atmospheric Universal Transport Intended for Lengthy United States eXploration"), an idea put forth by the NASA Technology Applications Assessment Team at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. You can read more about the details in THIS recent Discovery.com Blog.

Basically, it replicates ISS in over all design using cheaper components, attaches rockets and more up-to-date supplementary systems, and sends it cruising on long-term missions. Proponents say that it could be built for $4 billion dollars and be ready by 2020. Realistically, we know that all initial budget and time estimates are significantly low-balled, so let's say it would really cost 3 times that ($12 billion) and would take as long to build and assemble as the ISS, which means 15-20 years with an earliest launch date of say, 2025.

It would still be more than worth it, in my opinion.

This is EXACTLY the approach to long-range manned exploration we should be focusing on. A larger robust, customizable, reusable habitat that can use reasonable propulsion technologies. This is in contrast to the super-compact vehicles where most of the emphasis is on the engine rather than what keeps the astronauts alive and healthy. The idea behind the latter is that if you can get astronauts to and from their destination sufficiently fast enough, you needn't bother with advanced habitat systems.

But the reality of both the vast distances in space, as well as our own near-future technological limitations (no warp drives or antimatter rockets any time soon. Sadly,) would seem to dictate the former approach. We HAVE to get used to the idea that if you want to go anywhere interesting beyond the Earth-Moon system, you're going to be spending a long time getting there. And that's just for manned exploration. Trying for economic exploitation such as construction or mining will require even more capable long-term mobile habitats.

Astronauts in these situations don't need cramp capsules attached to gigantic rockets, as many deep space proposals have posited, such as those to send astronauts to an asteroid or even to Mars in nothing more than two linked Orion capsules. They need actual ships that they can properly live and work on for months at a time. If you were trying to cross the Atlantic, it wouldn't matter how big a motor you attached to a canoe, because in the end it would still be a canoe, and poorly designed to handle the rigors of transoceanic travel. But if you had a big enough ship, travelling slower wouldn't be that big a deal, and you would be much better prepared to handle unforeseen circumstances.

This analogy I think very much applies to space travel, and why an idea like the Nautilus X is a big step forward. If we want to go back to the Moon, to an asteroid, even beyond to Mars or Venus, having an actual reusable ship that can do all that in succession makes more sense than building a new ship for each task. Plus the Nautilus is designed to be modular, and can be modified and updated through it operational lifetime.

But whether anyone at NASA will take the Nautilus-X seriously and moved forward with it is another matter. The space community is nothing if not traditionalist and slow to change, not only in their methods but in their modes of thinking about space exploration in general. Let's hope that won't be the case this time.

Salyut
27th February 2011, 23:03
Reminds me of Aldrin's Cycler concept.

ÑóẊîöʼn
28th February 2011, 04:55
While I'm a big proponent of research into better propulsion, the fact remains that no matter how fancy our engine systems are, it's all for nothing unless we get the hang of living comfortably in space long term.

You give 'em a drive system that enables a round trip to Mars and back within a week, next thing you know they'll want to visit the outer planets with it.

Metacomet
4th March 2011, 04:02
I don't get why these things can't be wholly international.

Why isn't there some sort of UN space agency, I mean are the aliens we run into gonna care what part of our planet we came from? :confused:

Less whining about spending as well. Share the load.

NGNM85
5th March 2011, 06:01
As much as I appreciate it, the pricetag is a bit high for a craft that seemingly has little purpose beyond the symbolic value. Methinks in such hard times we could choose better investments.

Kiev Communard
5th March 2011, 08:43
As much as I appreciate it, the pricetag is a bit high for a craft that seemingly has little purpose beyond the symbolic value. Methinks in such hard times we could choose better investments.

Well, it's still lesser than the amount world Wall Street pays each year to its executives in the form of bonuses, so I don't think it would be a great burden. It's only that the dominant approach to "fiscal responsibility" tends to punish the scientific projects in favour of strictly military ones.

ckaihatsu
5th March 2011, 09:38
It's only that the dominant approach to "fiscal responsibility" tends to punish the scientific projects in favour of strictly military ones.


In the spirit of compromise (heh)(wait for it...) can't we have a scientific space *militarization* program to fight the alien foe, as illustrated in 'Starship Troopers' -- ??? -- !


x D


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film)

ÑóẊîöʼn
5th March 2011, 14:31
12 billion dollars is chump change (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1) to those greedy, incompetent fuckers at the top.

No, money is not the issue here. The issue is that we have our priorities screwed up. At the moment we (or at least those in control) are more interested in aggression towards ourselves, or lining our own pockets.

I only hope we learn better before it's too late.

farleft
5th March 2011, 15:05
The space sector is growing rapidly.

"The space business is now said to have a turnover worth some £7.5bn, with employment rising at about 15% a year." BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11703446)

I wouldn't be surprised to see China land the first man on Mars. The Mars500 project doesn't include any Americans.

A united Earth space agency would be a much better use of resources. In Europe we have pulled together to have ESA.

NGNM85
6th March 2011, 02:05
Well, it's still lesser than the amount world Wall Street pays each year to its executives in the form of bonuses, so I don't think it would be a great burden. It's only that the dominant approach to "fiscal responsibility" tends to punish the scientific projects in favour of strictly military ones.

I understand that, but the problem is that this has such a limited scientific utility. As I said, it's value is almost entirely symbolic. If we're going to spend that kind of money it should go to something that will actually teach us something we don't already know.

farleft
6th March 2011, 02:46
I understand that, but the problem is that this has such a limited scientific utility. As I said, it's value is almost entirely symbolic. If we're going to spend that kind of money it should go to something that will actually teach us something we don't already know.

I don't think that is entirely true (or false).

As per my previous post it creates jobs plus as far as I can tell the technology that is developed for space projects gets re-used on Earth in fields like medicine, telecommunications and telemetry for example.

There is an abundance of information on the web about the benefits of space travel.

I know it can be a bit of a showcase at times for powerful nations to show their international level and technological advancements.

I am a big supporter of space projects, colonising of the moon and other worlds, more money should be invested in the industry.