Libya Newsfeed

[Sentinel]

The previous Libya-thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/here-comes-libya-t150165/index.html) has reached 500 posts, and has been closed as per board policy. Please post breaking news from the Libyan revolution in this thread from now on.

Edit: posts accidentally made in the previous thread post closure by Global Mods Ravachol and Dimentio merged here. Please feel free to continue any interrupted discussions here.

[Ravachol]

It's not either the current regime or chaos, it's either the current regime or NATO. This situation is moving very quickly towards NATO stepping in and seizing control in the name of 'stability.'

- August

This is no more than a logical course of action. In order to maintain internal stability, in order to govern disorder and to keep the gears of Capital running smoothly, there will always be imperial intervention in periods of instability in order to prevent a secession from Capital's tissue. Whether it's these kind of uprisings, Italy's 'years of lead' or what not, military intervention by the forces of 'law and order' is no more than a logical consequence of any uprising and something any movement serious about revolution should keep in mind.

[Dimentio]

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/201122412934486492.html

[Princess Luna]

4:00pm An eyewitness named Ali from Az Zawiyah tells Al Jazzera that soldiers fired at protesters with heavy fire arms for five hours this morning. Some of the protesters, he said were armed with hunting rifles, others were unarmed.
"The shooting was direct to the people. They shot the people in the head or in the chest. They were trying to kill the people, not just terrify them," said Ali.
He added that at least 100 people had been killed and that around 400 injured were taken to the hospital in Az Zawiyah.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/az.jpg

[Ligeia]

nothing out of the ordinary, they must be prepared to send a rapid task forces if kadafi would go nut and kidnapp their folks like saddam did back then with brittish nationals. May be true but it's always good to keep track on such plans: when and what is going on where and who is acting.
Whatever happens to the citizens of some European country and how to deal with it (like evacuations which are already taking place) is up to every country individually.
Military intervention on the other hand is something they (the European Union) are planning together.

[danyboy27]

May be true but it's always good to keep track on such plans: when and what is going on where and who is acting.
Whatever happens to the citizens of some European country and how to deal with it (like evacuations which are already taking place) is up to every country individually.
Military intervention on the other hand is something they (the UE) are planning together.

of course we need to remain vigilant.

i wouldnt put much faith in a EU military intervention, just like the rest of the world, they got enough shit on their plate, plus kadafi is playing the ''they are gonna get me'' card, best course of action is to wait.

has i said, if anything, some misterious crate of ak-47 and bullets are gonna appear from nowhere in benghazi.

[danyboy27]

1623: Lisa Goldman, in Tel Aviv, Israel, (http://twitter.com/#%21/lisang) tweets: "Online with my friend in Tripoli now. He tells me that people from Misrata and Zawya have beaten back the pro-Qaddafi forces."

[danyboy27]

i got the feeling that today might be the big day. i could be wrong tho.

[danyboy27]

1617: Libya's state TV, in what appears to be a first, is now airing urgent captions in English.

[danyboy27]

6:09pm Al Jazeera's correspondent in Al Baida reports says that the situation can be described as a "nervous quietness" - with most of the town being under the control of the residents as they've taken over the military barracks and all the weapons there.
"Shops are closed - life is at a standstill - schools are closed, local tribal leaders are trying to take things into their own hands...still, in the area, they say there are mercenaries," said our correspondent. The mercenaries, she said, are either Libyans working for the government or foreign fighters.
She added that in Al Baida, most people are staying indoors, and that residents there rejected any claims made by Gaddafi that they were following al-Qaeda and that they were on drugs.
She also said that people there feel like they've reached "a point of no return",

[danyboy27]

1727: The Libyan ambassador to Jordan has resigned from his post, the AFP quotes a report in Jordan's state-run Petra news agency

[danyboy27]

1804: Switzerland has ordered an immediate freeze on any assets that may belong to Col Gaddafi and his entourage, the AFP news agency reports, quoting the Swiss foreign ministry.



hahahaha WHERE IS YOUR ARMY OF MERCENARIES NOW!

[Sasha]

@ dannyboy, gadaffi sadly already moved most of his bilions from switzerland to the US and the EU (his primary holding is actually offcialy in Ridderkerk, a small dutch town in the midle of nowhere) after the swis police arrested one of his sons for an hotelbrawl, i think he removed about 4 bilion US dolar out of swis banks overnight in retaliation.

an AJ article with an analyse of the significance of the use of the "monarchist" flag: http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/spotlight/libya/2011/02/2011224123588553.html

key quote:
Speaking to Al Jazeera, Youcef Bouandel, a Libyan professor of international affairs at Qatar University, explained the significance of the protesters' choice of flag.
"This flag is the flag of Libya when it achieved its independence from the Italians ... and I think that people are saying that Libya is going to achieve its independence that was stolen by Gaddafi," he said.
Bouandel said the choice of flag did not indicate a particular predilection towards returning to a monarchical structure - as the original flag was used by the country when it was ruled by the el-Senussi family - rather it was a reaction against Gaddafi, and an expression of a desire for independence.

"[It is] to tell him that there was a Libya before Gaddafi came to power," said Bouandel.
"He seemed to imply in his speech that he was Libya, that he made Libya ... there was a Libya that fought for its independence and that was the flag of Libya before you took power in what you called a revolution."


also:
[B]5:13pm As this Tweeter puts it:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/tweet1_0.jpg
Great question. Where was Gaddafi calling from? Intially, word was that the Libyan leader would appear live and make his statement from Az Zawiyah, but then, a phone call, which ended rather abruptly. We'll Youtube that and embed it here for you shortly.



good question indeed

[danyboy27]

damn you psycho!

1813: Jon Leyne is the first BBC reporter to reach Benghazi, which has seen some of the worst violence in the country and is now under opposition control. He says the city is largely calm and being run by a committee of lawyers, judges and respected local people, operating from the court house and urging peo

[Os Cangaceiros]

The whole issue of Qaddafi's money was curious to me, too. It seems like the EU member states could just issue an order to freeze his accounts if they wanted to.

[Sasha]

problem is its entirely unclear what is lybian money and what is gaddafi money, offcially the state owns these holdings (including some huge shares in newspapers, banks and juventus football club) so its legally way more dificult to freeze states assets than personal assets as its not yet obvious the money is embazzeled from the state.

[danyboy27]

1928: European interior ministers have agreed in Brussels that the threat of a mass exodus of migrants from Libya and elsewhere in North Africa is a problem for the whole of Europe. But there are very different views on how to respond, the BBC's Europe correspondent Chris Morris.




a threat? give me a fucking break.

[danyboy27]

1939: Libya's state TV airs an urgent report, which states that "the Libyan air force has destroyed what is left of weapons depots that are out of (government) control in the desert, and in rural and uninhabited areas."

[ckaihatsu]

This seems to echo recent events in Egypt but perhaps at an accelerated pace...(?)








Amid the turmoil, a defiant Gaddafi has vowed to quash the uprising.

He delivered a rambling speech on television on Tuesday night, declaring he would die a martyr in Libya, and threatening to purge opponents "house by house" and "inch by inch".

He blamed the uprising in the country on "Islamists", and warned that an "Islamic emirate" has already been set up in Bayda and Derna, where he threatened the use of extreme force.




Major-General Suleiman Mahmoud, the commander of the armed forces in Tobruk, told Al Jazeera that the troops led by him had switched loyalties.

"We are on the side of the people," he said. "I was with him [Gaddafi] in the past but the situation has changed - he's a tyrant."




A group of army officers has also issued a statement urging soldiers to "join the people" and remove Gaddafi from power.


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/2011223125256699145.html

[Sasha]

"Gaddafi has achieved the impossible: he made Mubarak look dignified and Ben Ali look like a genius"

some random tweet i saw

[brigadista]

interesting editorial on EI

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article11823.shtml
Libya's tragedy, Gaddafi's farce

Nouri Gana, The Electronic Intifada, 22 February 2011

If you think Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi is stupid, much less crazy, think twice. He was the first to sense and assess correctly the ripple effects of what happened in Tunisia on 14 January 2011. He was fully cognizant and apprehensive of its implications for Libya and, above all, for his 42-year record of autocratic rule. To understand Gaddafi's overall manipulative tactics of the Libyan uprising, namely his attempt to deflect its homegrown roots, it is worthwhile to revisit his reaction to the Tunisian revolution.

On 15 January 2011, one day after Tunisians ousted long-time dictator Zine el Abidine Ben Ali, Gaddafi was the first Arab head of state to comment on the Tunisian revolution. Wearing a black shirt, and showing a haggard, pallid face, weighted by anguish, he appeared on the national Libyan TV channel Aljamahiriya and addressed himself directly to the Tunisian people.

As customary of his improvisational style, which literally embodies the absurdities and eccentricities of his entire regime, Gaddafi's remarks were random, disjointed and unpersuasive even though his warnings to Tunisians were partly right, particularly if judged against the backdrop of the manipulative practices of the current interim government in Tunisia which has shamelessly co-opted the revolution and slighted the spirit of the revolutionaries. Let's pray and hope, though, that the ongoing, around-the-clock sit-in mass protest in the Qasbah Government Square in Tunis succeeds in putting the revolution back on the right track.

Gaddafi said he was pained by Ben Ali's unceremonious exit and spoke at length about the shortsightedness of Tunisians who wasted their lives for nothing, just to get rid of a corrupt president. He chided them for being misled by WikiLeaks (which he called "Kleenex") into destroying their country and putting the future of their children on the line. After expressing his distrust of any form of social media, Gaddafi turned to pay homage to Ben Ali, whom he refers to as "Zine":

"I do not know anyone from Bourguiba [Tunisia's first post-independence president] to Zine, but Zine for me is the best for Tunisia. He was the one who gave Tunisia pride of place [in terms of economic growth]; I don't care whether you like him or not, whether you're against him or not; I tell you the truth, regardless; do you think that Zine gives me money, glory or any kind of reward for saying this? He gives me nothing, but I tell you the truth. I'm usually candid with the Arab public, pointing out the truth to them. No one is better than Zine at the moment. What I wish is not for Zine to remain in power till 2014 [which is one of the concessions/promises Ben Ali made in his third and last speech before his flight to Saudi Arabia] but for him to remain in power for life, okay! If anyone close to Zine is corrupt or if Zine himself is corrupt, they should stand trial. Bring your evidence and try them; this is usually a normal practice. But it's inadmissible that whenever there is corruption, we burn our country and kill our children at night. Ala Tunis al-salaam."

Gaddafi ended his speech by saying ala Tunis al-salaam, which is a pun on "peace upon Tunisia," but practically means in this context, "Tunisia's doom is upon us." Ala Tunis al-salaam is a corruption of ala al-duniya al-salaam, which is a common idiomatic expression that originates in Islamic theology on the end of days and is used to evoke a sense of the approaching end of times. The gist of Gaddafi's speech is twofold: to debunk the rationale on which the Tunisian revolution hinges and to profess the collapse of Tunisia as a nation state.

Gaddafi's unsolicited comments on the Tunisian revolution constituted a travesty of the will of the Tunisian people and of the memory of its martyrs; Tunisians felt insulted and angered by what he said and, therefore, vindicated when they saw many Libyans in al-Bayda city taking to the streets the following day to protest against socioeconomic malaises created by his regime and by the decades-long unbalanced distribution of oil revenues. It's worth noting here that Libyans were indeed the first who felt compelled and inspired by what happened in Tunisia; these early demonstrations, however, were somewhat visceral and hesitant; they lacked the assurance and confidence that the Egyptian revolution brought in its wake.

The importance of Gaddafi's speech on the Tunisian revolution lies ultimately not in terms of what it said about Tunisia but in terms of what it did not say about Libya. Inversely, what Gaddafi did not say about Libya, he projected on Tunisia. Consider, for instance, his insistence on the exceptionality and exemplarity of Ben Ali: "There is not anyone better than Ben Ali at the moment for Tunisia and if it were up to me I would want him to continue not till 2014 but for life." What holds the key to this statement is the "if it were up to me" hypothesis that underwrites it. Gaddafi implies that while it is not up to him to appoint Ben Ali president for life in the case of Tunisia, it is certainly up to him in the case of Libya to stay in power for the rest of his life, or so, at least, he hoped to plead with or make clear to Libyans.

The fact that Gaddafi reacted immediately to the overthrow of Ben Ali in ways that contradicted the will of the Tunisian people is expressive of his fear that what happened to Ben Ali might very well happen to him. Thenceforth he was obsessed and bedeviled by what might be called the curse of Ben Ali. He identified with Ben Ali not in order to redeem him but in order to justify his own longevity in power. He trivialized the value of the Tunisian revolution not because he felt Libya is immunized against it but because he reckoned how ripe Libya is for it after 42 years of his rule, almost twice as long as Ben Ali's. He went on and on discrediting social media and WikiLeaks not because they were negligible and untrustworthy but because they charted new fields of mobilization and dissent that he can neither overcome nor completely disregard.

Gaddafi knew then that he was not immune to Ben Ali's curse and he did not leave any stone unturned to immunize himself against his fate. His overall strategy revolved initially around the vilification of the Tunisian revolution. He not only undermined its accomplishments but also was proactive in highlighting its negative repercussions. The rumors that swirled around his involvement along with Leila Trabelsi, Ben Ali's wife, in staging the influx of clandestine migrants to Lampedusa, Italy, have a ring of truth to them. While Trabelsi wanted to create a state of turmoil in Tunisia so as to smuggle the rest of her family out of the country, Gaddafi wanted to show Libyans a fresh example of the ugly byproducts of popular unrest in Tunisia, particularly after the fall of Mubarak.

No wonder, then, that the boats used by the clandestine migrants (who self-identified as political refugees) were sent from Libya; no wonder that most of these refugees were either runaway prisoners or mercenaries who were all asking for political asylum or refugee status in Italy, and no wonder that Gaddafi felt reassured that the psychological war he was waging against his people was effective; at any rate, there were no other protests of note anywhere in Libya since the al-Bayda protests that took place after his speech on Tunisia until widespread protests broke out last week.

Tarnishing the Tunisian revolution went hand-in-hand with his attempt to point to a foreign conspiracy against Tunisia. In an interview on Nessma TV on 25 January, on the very same day that the Egyptian revolution officially started, Gaddafi alluded to certain foreign forces preying on Tunisia but did not give any further specifications; when he was pushed to name names, he pointed out that those should be understood from his allusions. The usual suspects in the case of Tunisia are France and the United States, but that is not the case with Libya. Despite his preemptive campaigning against the contagiousness of the Tunisian revolution, Libya is now swept by the same revolutionary current that transformed both Tunisia and Egypt.

As peaceful demonstrations in Libya continue to spread across the country, Gaddafi is doing exactly what he implied he would do in his speech on Tunisia. First, he's terrorizing the population, killing as many Libyans as he can, not only because he wants to show he is willing to do this but also because he wants to dare Libyans to willingly pay the price for their revolt. Second, Gaddafi is deflecting the genuine grievances at the origin of the popular uprising and is instead pointing fingers to Tunisians, Egyptians and Palestinians as the architects of the widespread demonstrations.

At the very same time that Libyans were being burned alive by fighter jet rockets and bombs on 21 February, national Libyan TV, Aljamahiriya, was running staged confessions by Tunisians who were involved in circulating leaflets inciting Libyans to rise up against their government or distributing so-called "demonstration pills," that is, pills that would propel those who take them to engage in demonstrations and to destroy government buildings, etc. Clearly, Gaddafi's men/mercenaries are preying on foreigners in Libya: they capture them, beat them up and bring them in front of a camera and force them to say what they want them to say. In addition to terrorizing Libyans from the skies, Gaddafi is defusing the legitimate and homegrown forces that are leading Libya's glorious revolution.

When Gaddafi first commented on the Tunisian revolution, he pointed out the yawning gap between the high price paid for it (the hundreds of men and women killed) and the meager gains brought through it (changing one president for another and appointing one government in place of another). In other words, he questioned whether it was worth it for Tunisians to bring tragedy and grief upon themselves only to reap nothing but a farcical reshuffling of the same old system. Gaddafi's strategy in Libya is to blur completely the dividing lines between the tragic and the farcical. This holds true even for the latest TV appearances of Gaddafi and son, which add nothing but farcical insult to tragic injury.

To use heavy artillery and fighter jets (Mirage and Rafael) to attack unarmed civilians might seem absurd when you ponder it for a while, yet it is tragic when you see it actually happening. By playing on the constant slide of the tragic under the farcical, Gaddafi does not only want to hold on to his 42-year long omnipotence, but to force Libyans along with the international community to submit to it. To be able to understand and support our Libyan brothers and sisters today, let's take the farcical out of Gaddafi. Libya's tragedy can no longer continue to be Gaddafi's farce.

Nouri Gana is Assistant Professor of Comparative Literature and Near Eastern Languages and Cultures at the University of California, Los Angeles. His book, Signifying Loss: Toward a Poetics of Narrative Mourning, was just published by Bucknell University Press, 2011.

[Dimentio]

This is actually very smart, if yet crazy. To make the suffering of the people look like a sick joke, and parodying other leaders and the world situation. Gaddafi is the Joker of the world community.

[Palestine]

A pro-Gaddafi attack on the city of Zawia near Tripoli was blocked by the revolutionaries, and the pro-Gaddafi forces retreated

[Dimentio]

A pro-Gaddafi attack on the city of Zawia near Tripoli was blocked by the revolutionaries, and the pro-Gaddafi forces retreated

I find it inspiring how youths armed with hunting rifles and whatever they have could defeat mercenaries aided by heavy weaponry.

[Palestine]

I find it inspiring how youths armed with hunting rifles and whatever they have could defeat mercenaries aided by heavy weaponry.

Those "hellucinating" youths have a cause, they are not scared, unlike the paid mercenaries who are there for the money with no will to sacrifice their lives for Gaddafi.
LONG LIVE LIBYA, LONG LIVE THE PEOPLE.

[Dimentio]

http://www.dn.se/images/2011/02/24/khaddafi-face.jpg

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9a6YhHSYQau0Z0P9OEA2P_bOBr4669 _rT4XhqLT6gLWhCTmCm&t=1

[Dimentio]

Those "hellucinating" youths have a cause, they are not scared, unlike the paid mercenaries who are there for the money with no will to sacrifice their lives for Gaddafi.
LONG LIVE LIBYA, LONG LIVE THE PEOPLE.

Don't forget the Mercs are probably on hallucinogens too.

[Palestine]

Rumor: Yacht carrying Gaddafi family members lands in the Greek island of Crete.

[Palestine]

Washington asks all it's citizens to leave Libya immediately. Anyone smells that?

[Sasha]

so, so did the dutch days ago. i think you are grosly underestimating the ability of the US goverment to sit back and do nothing and let people get slaughterd.
considering the two wars its bogged down in already and the somalia trauma its way more plausible than an US invasion or anything ridiculous like that

[Dimentio]

If I know Obama right, he will go in for the kill when Gaddafi is already unable to fend for himself, to take all the honour and no risks.

[Sasha]

1804: Switzerland has ordered an immediate freeze on any assets that may belong to Col Gaddafi and his entourage, the AFP news agency reports, quoting the Swiss foreign ministry.

hahahaha WHERE IS YOUR ARMY OF MERCENARIES NOW!


@ dannyboy, gadaffi sadly already moved most of his bilions from switzerland to the US and the EU (his primary holding is actually offcialy in Ridderkerk, a small dutch town in the midle of nowhere) after the swis police arrested one of his sons for an hotelbrawl, i think he removed about 4 bilion US dolar out of swis banks overnight in retaliation.




damn you psycho!



The whole issue of Qaddafi's money was curious to me, too. It seems like the EU member states could just issue an order to freeze his accounts if they wanted to.


problem is its entirely unclear what is lybian money and what is gaddafi money, offcially the state owns these holdings (including some huge shares in newspapers, banks and juventus football club) so its legally way more dificult to freeze states assets than personal assets as its not yet obvious the money is embazzeled from the state.


GB is moving in on 20 bilion in assets gadaffi thought to have in london: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8346701/Libya-Gaddafis-billions-to-be-seized-by-Britain.html

[danyboy27]

11:10pm AJE reports (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/2011224203847725714.html):

Ahmed Gadhaf al-Dam, one of Gaddafi's top security official and a cousin, defected on Wednesday evening, saying in a statement issued by his Cairo office that he left the country "in protest and to show disagreement" with "grave violations to human rights and human and international laws.
Sources tell Al Jazeera that Al-Dam was travelling to Syria via Cairo on a private plane and that he went to Egypt in protest against the violence deployed by the government in Libya.




i hate to say that i know more than a fucking security official, but i call bullshit on this one.


has i said earlier, chemical and biological weapon are complicated stuff, hard to maintain, and require highly specialised personnal to prepare those. Even if you for dual conpound, you would need to prepare those month in advance, otherwise those compound would loose efficiency.



With all the defecting military and security personnal, i find hard to believe that its only now that someone mention those weapon.


my guess is, just like saddam, he have some old mustard gas shell in a bunker somewhere and they are just so fucking useless, they would probably kill more worker in the bunker by manipulating those.

[Sasha]

If I know Obama right, he will go in for the kill when Gaddafi is already unable to fend for himself, to take all the honour and no risks.

think that obama is even an smarter politician than that, i put my money on something like the US plan for removing sadam after the invasion kuwait.
first a no fly zone soon, then if shit really hits the fan an swift uprising from one or more tribes with help of an swift operation by "tunesian" or "egyptian" commando's that take out ghadaffi in an "act of solidarity with their libyan brethren".
in that way obama would keep his hands absolutly clean and if it fails the tribes take the hit like the shia delta tribes did after the failed uprising in iraq.

[danyboy27]

cant fucking believe a ke$ha song would fit for the situation of gadafi.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WeFpixpffc

[Sasha]

2:45am: In a speech on Thursday, the embattled dictator said he was like the Queen of England (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8345597/Libya-Gaddafi-compares-himself-to-the-Queen-in-latest-rant.html).

You need to listen to your parents. If people disobey their parents they end up destroying the country, he said. The same case as in Britain (where) for 57 years the Queen has been ruling. I have been in the same situation.
2:40am: Twitter user @_Noura posted this to Twitpic:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/Gaddafiqueen.jpg

[Dimentio]

2:45am: In a speech on Thursday, the embattled dictator said he was like the Queen of England (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8345597/Libya-Gaddafi-compares-himself-to-the-Queen-in-latest-rant.html).
You need to listen to your parents. If people disobey their parents they end up destroying the country, he said. The same case as in Britain (where) for 57 years the Queen has been ruling. I have been in the same situation.
2:40am: Twitter user @_Noura posted this to Twitpic:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/Gaddafiqueen.jpg

This will haunt my eyes for weeks.

Thank you.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Word came in recently that the resistance based out of Zaywa (armed mostly with Kalashnikovs) may be advancing on Tripoli.

Rumors are circulating that tomorrow is going to be the day of a major assault, because of the significance of the day (Ben Ali and Mubarak fell on Fridays).

Also, Qaddafi seems concerned about the cleanliness of Tripoli:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L62zok05V0&feature=player_embedded

[danyboy27]

4:27am: Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, has backed Muammar Gaddafi on Twitter.
Chavez twitted:

Gaddafi is facing a civil war.

Long live Libya. Long live the independence of Libya.


http://implied.facepalm.de/facepalm_implied.jpg

[Os Cangaceiros]

o_0

anyway...here's a scene from a Libyan ER:

ZxfJ7s7ikY8

[Os Cangaceiros]

report from a doctor who was in Tripoli:


A massacre and a crime against humanity are currently going on in Libya. There has been Deaths of at least 50-70 civilians arriving to different hospitals in Tripoli every night. I am a Doctor at Sheffield Northern General Hospital and have personally seen bodies with bullet wounds to the head, neck and chest.

Eyewitness reports from people I have spoken to personally are that Security forces are turning up in hospitals, threatening doctors and forcing them to treat pro-government supporters and neglect demonstrators, at gun-point. There are incidents where blood bags have been ripped prior to transfusions so that injured supporters don’t receive treatment. There are cases of sabotage. Corpses are being removed from hospital before being identified and not being returned. There are reports that ambulances carrying the injured are being stopped and patients being executed.

etc

http://www.libyafeb17.com/?p=2410

[Os Cangaceiros]

I doubt that the regime will get Benghazi back anytime soon. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgP0Gro52c8&feature=player_embedded)

[Palestine]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/gadhafi-may-use-chemical-biological-weapons-against-libya-unrest-1.345603

If this happens what are the scenarios for what's next?? Using mustard gas on the civilians is so fucked up on many levels.

[Dimmu]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/gadhafi-may-use-chemical-biological-weapons-against-libya-unrest-1.345603

If this happens what are the scenarios for what's next?? Using mustard gas on the civilians is so fucked up on many levels.

Probably some angry notes from UN.. Thats about it..

[Dimmu]

From AJ

11:00am Sky News reports that the UK government allegedly paid Libyan officials to facilitate the evacuation of British citizens.


4:27am Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, has backed Muammar Gaddafi on Twitter.

Chavez tweeted:

Gaddafi is facing a civil war.

Long live Libya. Long live the independence of Libya.


Is Chavez crazy? :mellow:

[Ravachol]

From AJ

11:00am Sky News reports that the UK government allegedly paid Libyan officials to facilitate the evacuation of British citizens.


4:27am Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, has backed Muammar Gaddafi on Twitter.

Chavez tweeted:

Gaddafi is facing a civil war.

Long live Libya. Long live the independence of Libya.


Is Chavez crazy? :mellow:

What I somehow find even more surreal as that these kind of historic statements of solidarity are done via Twitter nowadays...

Imagine if Wilhelm II would be twittering about the 'scandalous assasination of Franz-Joseph' ...

[Dimentio]

What I somehow find even more surreal as that these kind of historic statements of solidarity are done via Twitter nowadays...

Imagine if Wilhelm II would be twittering about the 'scandalous assasination of Franz-Joseph' ...

Could have happened if Babbit's research had been more successful.

[Shokaract]

From AJ

11:00am Sky News reports that the UK government allegedly paid Libyan officials to facilitate the evacuation of British citizens.


4:27am Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, has backed Muammar Gaddafi on Twitter.

Chavez tweeted:

Gaddafi is facing a civil war.

Long live Libya. Long live the independence of Libya.


Is Chavez crazy? :mellow:

That doesn't really sound like a message of support though... He must know that Gaddafi doesn't have long. I think he's just expressing his concerns about possible imperialist intervention.

[Ligeia]

11:20 Arnaud Vaulerin, special correspondent of Liberation in Ras Jedir (Tunisian border) commented of not checked rumours affirming that “people of the west of the country plan to go to Tripoli to take part” in this what they describe as “the great battle of Friday”.

And at the same time:

12h55. “At the border the administration of Kadhafi is always in place”, reports Arnaud Vaulerin, special correspondent of Liberation in Ras Jedir at the Tunisian border, where many Libyans continue to flee at an intensive pace.

link (http://www.liberation.fr/monde/01012322176-libye-l-etau-se-resserre-autour-de-kadhafi)

[Sasha]

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/680_28.jpg

[Ligeia]

14:10 Seïf Al-Islam, one of the Libyan leader Mouammar Kadhafi's sons, affirmed Friday in an interview with a Turkish television that his family would remain no matter the cost in Libya, and informed they would not allow “terrorists” to control part of the country. Questioned by a journalist of CNN-Türk on a possible “plan B” of escape under consideration by his family in the event of victory of the insurrectionists, Seïf Al-Islam answered: “Our plan is, living in Libya and dying there. Plan B is, living in Libya and dying there”, according to the translation in Turkish of his remarks. The Kadhafi son admitted the loss of control of East Libya, but ensured that the Libyan authorities would take control again soon. “There are more than two million; inhabitants in this zone, the number of terrorists is of 200 or 300 at best. The people call us (...) We cannot allow terrorists to control a part of Libya and its population”, he declared.

Liberation reports.

[danyboy27]

1817: A 16-strong committee in Benghazi is organising affairs in Libya's second city, which fell to anti-Gaddafi protesters several days ago, says the BBC's World Affairs Editor John Simpson. The committee is making sure shops have provisions and banks keep residents supplied with money.




hahahaha hoo man, while tripoli is a mess under kadafi, benghazi seem to become more and more free and organised. i love it.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I hope that people in the anti-regime cities outside Tripoli are making plans to assault the capital and finish him off. Because you know that if he has any means at all to continue attacking he will use them.

[PhoenixAsh]

Gadaffi adressed the crowds in Green Square in person today.

The video is being denounced as a staged fake because of the light sky for the time of day and the fact that he wears a strange hat.

As I understand this, from people a little bit more familiar with filming, is a possibility but the bueish sheen over the video may mean that they used a dark filter over the camera.

Gadaffi stated, to summarise, that the revolution should be protected against foreign induced and influenced protests from counter revolutionary and reactionary forces....and called for action against these protesters who want to burn Libya.

This adress was a lot more coherent and a lot more "inspiring"


Analysts state that there were a lot of people from the far south, like Tuareg and from the Gadaffi tribe. These people are genuine Gadaffi supporters. He still has a lot of them and the revolution/protests in the east will fail if the rest of the country will not join the protests.

Protests in Tripoli today were harshly beaten down by security forces today. Groups of protesters who wanted to travel towards Tripoli (2000) armed wityh rifles was sent packing by Gadaffi supporters in Tajoura....several eye witnesses stating they spoke French.

The Kahmis brigade is the best armed army force in Libya and remains loyal to Gadaffi. Its currently engaging protesters armed militia.

Mention of biological and chemical weapons is made...in several oppositio reports. He may use them. And his threats are indicating he perhaps will.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Gunfire, new clashes in Tripoli as government offers money, pay hikes (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/25/AR2011022502731_2.html)



Other refugees and Libyans who made it to the Tunisian side of the border Friday said growing pockets of western Libya are now under the control of armed opposition groups. In Zuwarah, less than 24 miles from the border with Tunisia, armed "citizen committees" have taken over and are guarding entrances to the city, one resident said.

Amar Wifati, a 42-year-old engineer from Zuwarah, said residents were frightened by the possibility that Gaddafi loyalists could try to retake control. "But we cannot change our path now," he said. "We are finally free to express ourselves openly. This is a totally new experience for us."

However, fleeing Egyptian workers said Gaddafi loyalists recaptured the town of Surman and fought pitched battles with opposition groups in Zawiyah, closer to Tripoli.

"You get the feeling Libya will split into many countries," said Ibrahim Mohamed Ibrahim, one of thousands of Egyptian laborers and construction workers in Libya who have now become refugees on the Tunisian side of the border.

[Sasha]

9:35pm The reports that protesters, armed with weapons from abandoned security installations in Beghazi, vow to march on to Gaddafi's palace in Tripoli. Writer Adrian Blomfield says that many in Benghazi are afraid of "the retribution Mr Gaddafi will unleash on them for their rebellion if they fail to complete their mission and force him from power".

9:14pm Reports coming in: The UAE will send two plane loads of humanitarian aid to Libya, where protesters are battling the regime. Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahayan was quoted as saying* "two planes carrying humanitarian aid will leave Saturday from the UAE to Libya* via Turkey in order to meet the urgent needs of the Libyan people in the circumstances they are facing."

Qatar sent a relief plane to Libya on Friday that Qatar Airways said will* land in Libya's second city Benghazi, which is in the hands of the protesters.

8:35pm Al Jazeera's correspondent in eastern Libya, who cannot be named for her security, reports that while that region of the country has been mostly won by anti-Gaddafi protesters, people are anxious about what Gaddafi might do next.People do say that they have broken the fear factor, that they have made huge territorial gains ...yet there's no real celebration or euphoria that the job has been done.

People do say that they have broken the fear factor, that they have made huge territorial gains ...yet there's no real celebration or euphoria that the job has been done.

[danyboy27]

yea time to march on tripoli, too much blood have been spilled for that lunatic.

[Artemis3]

Just hearing one of our journalists (TeleSUR) by phone telling the situation from Benghazi (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Benghazi) in control of the people. He says everyone is armed, and even some soldiers joined them. The food is distributed for free. They have military checkpoints. They took control of an army depot by crashing a car in the entrance which caused an explosion, causing the soldiers to flee and the people went in and armed themselves (they obtained rocket launchers as well).

They say communications within the country work (cellphones), so they are coordinating with others on the west to rise. The very few journalists are treated like kings, everyone if offering shelter, food or whatever to them. They showed him horrible pictures of bodies mutilated by big caliber ammo.

Internet access is non existent to the population, but he finally found a link which he is using right now.

TeleSur also reported at least 20000 people crossing the border into Tunisia and Egypt fleeing from the war.
Also: USA just broke relations with Libya (duh).
UN secretary is addressing the assembly, pretty much condemning Gaddaffi.

[Sasha]

Libya: protesters vow to march on Gaddafi's palace

Civilian protesters armed with weapons looted from abandoned security installations in Libya's second city of Benghazi on Friday vowed to march on Col Muammar Gaddafi's palace in Tripoli.


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01835/benghazi_1835535c.jpg Libyans carry the bodies of three more victims of the violence in Benghaz Photo: GETTY







(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/adrian-blomfield/)
By Adrian Blomfield (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/adrian-blomfield/), Benghazi 6:35PM GMT 25 Feb 2011



A mood of fresh jubilation swept Benghazi, the epicentre of the uprising against Mr Gaddafi's 41 year rule, as its inhabitants marked a week since the start of their revolt.

As newly written revolutionary songs blared from a loudspeaker, thousands gathered in the square outside Benghazi's court buildings, mustering once more on the spot where Libya's protests began.

It was here that eastern Libya, where Mr Gaddafi's rule has been most brutal, found its voice.

Inspired by revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia, people once too terrified even to whisper criticism of their "brother leader" gathered here first to denounce the arrest of a prominent human rights lawyer and then to call for the overthrow of the regime itself.

For their courage, the people of Benghazi paid a terrible price, mowed down in their hundreds by Mr Gaddafi's security forces and hired mercenaries.



As they celebrated, friends and relatives who had not seen each other since the insurrection began clung to each other, tears streaming down their face, as they remembered the dead and struggled to come to terms with the scale of their engagement.
But in other parts of Benghazi, the sound of gunfire echoed through the streets as mourners carried the bodies of people still dying of their wounds in the city's overcrowded hospitals.
Lawyers and young activists at the forefront of the uprising formed committees to administer the city but they struggled to contain the people's anger and appeals for weapons to be returned met with only partial success.
Having tasted liberation for the first time, many in Benghazi are terrified of the retribution Mr Gaddafi will unleash on them for their rebellion if they fail to complete their mission and force him from power.
On Benghazi's rooftops and outside police stations gutted and ransacked by the protesters, men armed with anti-aircraft missile launchers nervously scanned the skies.
Although many in Mr Gaddafi's air force have defected to the protesters, ejecting from their fighter jets instead of carrying out orders to bomb eastern cities, there has been evidence that the brother leader is starting to fight back.
There were reports that a number of senior military officers in western Libya, where opposition to the regimes less intense, have once again sworn loyalty to Mr Gaddafi just days after they changed allegiance to join the people.
Army officers who have turned their back on Libya's leader in Benghazi say the prospects of successful assault on Tripoli – more than 600 miles to the west – are negligible.
But civilians who took up arms to liberate Benghazi say they are determined to take the battle to the capital.
"I have many friends in Benghazi and we want to go to Tripoli," said Essam al-Mansouri, who was at the forefront of an attack on the last stronghold of pro-Gaddafi forces in the capital. "We have many guns from the army. If Gaddafi doesn't leave, we will have to go to his palace."
Mr Mansouri comes from a family torn apart by the repression of Mr Gaddafi's regime. Their suffering, by no means unique, explains the depth of the hatred felt towards Mr Gaddafi in eastern Libya.
His father, Atia, spent the first 13 years of his son's life in jail, much of it in Tripoli's notorious Abu Slim prison after being accused of involvement in a military conspiracy to overthrow Mr Gaddafi.
An elite fighter pilot, Atia al Mansouri was arrested when his wife was four months pregnant with their first child, Essam as the Libyan leader began a purge of potential rivals in the armed forces. Although he escaped the fate of 24 of his co-accused, who were executed by their own men, he was tortured for 15 months.
In Jordan for an operation when the uprising began, Atia al Mansouri recalled how he swelled with pride when his son rang him to say he had killed four mercenaries during the battle for Benghazi.

Never forgiving Libya's leader for depriving him of his father for so long, Essam al Mansouri, who is 35, joined peaceful protests outside the city's police headquarters only to come under fire and see a number of his comrades killed.
The next day, he was one of the first to return to the protests with a rifle and was at the forefront of the three-day battle outside Benghazi's main military barracks, to where pro-regime forces and mercenaries had retreated and regrouped.
Heavily outgunned, the protesters' saw the tide turning their way on Feb 20 after one of their number filled his car with TNT and rammed through the main gates of the barracks on a suicide mission. That night, the forces within fled.
The battle over, father and son were reunited yesterday, embracing tearfully.
For Essam al Mansouri, his actions were a chance to take revenge for what Mr Gaddafi had done to his family.
"This man, I think, is Satan," he said. "Gaddafi put my father in prison. I didn't have any brothers or sisters because of Gaddafi."
His father said: "I'm so proud of my son. He killed four mercenaries and protected the streets. Now he's working in the central committee organising the city. I've been waiting for this day, for this festival day, for a long time."
As Egyptian warships evacuated hundreds of mainly Chinese civilians from Benghazi yesterday, the city's new administration was involved in a desperate attempt to keep basic supplies running.
It was also decoding the fate of 16 African nationals suspected of acting as Mr Gaddafi's mercenaries.
The Libyan leader is believed to have recruited scores of fighters from rebel movements he has sponsored in Chad and Darfur, but a number of African nationals working legitimately in Libya have been beaten and seized by angry mobs after being mistaken for mercenaries.
Five Africans were released on the orders of committee members yesterday – a fact welcomed by western human rights activists who have now arrived in the city.
"It is very clear that this revolution is about honour and dignity," said Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director for Human Rights Watch. "There has been no evidence of revenge attacks, no looting and the leadership is very clear it does not want any revenge attacks."



source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8348579/Libya-protesters-vow-to-march-on-Gaddafis-palace.html

[Sasha]

11:16pm Prayer and Protest in Benghazi. An inspiring photo gallery from photographer David Degner. (http://www.incendiaryimage.com/projects/bengazi-protest/)

11:06pm The Guardian newspaper (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/25/libya-uk-gaddafi-sas-embassy?CMP=twt_gu) reports that UK officials have told Gaddafi loyalists to defect or face war crimes. The article says that a draft resolution which circulating within the Security Council seeks to achieve the following: arms embargo on the government, travel bans and asset freezes of senior officials.The writers Patrick Wintour and Julian Borger say that the idea of a no-fly zone was removed from the Frano-British draft resolution and it was not discussed at a NATO meeting in Brussels. Meanwhile, more than 200 Arab organisations and around 30 Arab intellectuals appealed for a no-fly zone over Libya. Egyptian writer and commentator Hani Shukrallah reportedly told the Guardian:
Stopping Gaddafi and his family shopping in Harrods or on the Champs Elysées is not going to prevent him unleashing further bloodshed. It's time to stop fiddling about and get serious.

[Artemis3]

The TeleSur journalist in Tripoli (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tripoli) who sent the calm and pro-gadaffi videos yesterday was detained today and left 5 hours inside a car, and all his belongings taken including a cellphone with pictures of the outskirts with possible evidence of what would be leftovers of demonstrations. Luckily he left his camera behind because he was attempting to buy a smaller one...

He was inside a diplomatic car with a diplomat from the Venezuelan embassy which was completely searched. They were treated badly, and beaten. Later they were given apologies to them and were released, but his stuff was not returned. If the rebels do attack tripoli, things will get messy... The other TeleSur journalist is with the rebels in Benghazi (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Benghazi)

He now says Tripoli is under military control, so he can't do much covering anymore...
(https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Benghazi)

[Sasha]

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/terminal01/2011/2/25/12/enhanced-buzz-10516-1298656112-11.jpg
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/Post-image/images/5459552555_3b7780ec66_o.jpg
http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/terminal01/2011/2/25/12/enhanced-buzz-10529-1298654706-3.jpghttp://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/terminal01/2011/2/25/12/enhanced-buzz-10519-1298655399-1.jpg
source: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-best-libyan-protest-signs-from-around-the-worl

yup, glen beck is right, clearly these are the soldiers for an islamofascistmarxistshariakaliphaat.....

[Dimentio]

WTF

http://mathaba.net/news/?x=626060

Sort of make me think of 4Chan vs AnonTalk.

[Dimmu]

From AJ

1:15pm
The UN Security Council is set to meet today to consider a sanctions resolution against Gaddafi.

Britain, France, Germany and the US have drawn up a resolution that says the attacks on civilians in Libya could amount to crimes against humanity.

The resolution calls for an arms embargo and a travel ban and assets freeze against the Libyan leader.

[Sasha]

Protesters are gaining serious fire power, head of special forces defected and pledges to help remove gadaffi.

[Dimentio]

Protesters are gaining serious fire power, head of special forces defected and pledges to help remove gadaffi.

He is toasted.

[Sasha]

dutch news is reporting gadaffi loyal forces have retreated from several workingclass neighboorhoods in tripoli, residents have erected baricades with palmtree's and stones.

if true gadaffi is losing is grip even on the capital

[danyboy27]

Protesters are gaining serious fire power, head of special forces defected and pledges to help remove gadaffi.

you have some sources?? i didnt find any on al jazeera or bbc.

[danyboy27]

his son made a speech on tv and he looked terrified, he was speaking about how ridiculous all these rumor of protester controlling the country where.

he was constantly looking around him.

[brigadista]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23375


Is Tripoli being set up for a civil war to justify U.S. and NATO military intervention in oil-rich Libya?

Are the talks about sanctions a prelude to an Iraq-like intervention?

Something is Rotten in the so-called “Jamahiriya” of Libya

There is no question that Colonel Muammar Al-Gaddafi (Al-Qaddafi) is a dictator. He has been the dictator and so-called “qaid” of Libya for about 42 years. Yet, it appears that tensions are being ratcheted up and the flames of revolt are being fanned inside Libya. This includes earlier statements by the British Foreign Secretary William Hague that Colonel Qaddafi had fled Libya to Venezuela. [1] This statement served to electrify the revolt against Qaddafi and his regime in Libya.

Although all three have dictatorship in common, Qaddafi’s Libya is quite different from Ben Ali’s Tunisia or Mubarak’s Egypt. The Libyan leadership is not outright subservient to the United States and the European Union. Unlike the cases of Tunisia and Egypt, the relationship that exists between Qaddafi and both the U.S. and E.U. is a modus vivendi. Simply put, Qaddafi is an independent Arab dictator and not a “managed dictator” like Ben Ali and Mubarak.

In Tunisia and Egypt the status quo prevails, the military machine and neo-liberalism remain intact; this works for the interests of the United States and the European Union. In Libya, however, upsetting the established order is a U.S. and E.U. objective.

The U.S. and the E.U. now seek to capitalize on the revolt against Qaddafi and his dictatorship with the hopes of building a far stronger position in Libya than ever before. Weapons are also being brought into Libya from its southern borders to promote revolt. The destabilization of Libya would also have significant implications for North Africa, West Africa, and global energy reserves.



Colonel Qaddafi in Brief Summary

Qaddafi’s rise to power started as a Libyan captain amongst a group of military officers who carried out a coup d’état. The 1969 coup was against the young Libyan monarchy of King Idris Al-Sanusi. Under the monarchy Libya was widely seen as being acquiescent to U.S. and Western European interests.

Although he has no official state or government position, Qaddafi has nurtured and deeply rooted a political culture of cronyism, corruption, and privilege in Libya since the 1969 coup. Added to this is the backdrop of the “cult of personality” that he has also enforced in Libya.

Qaddafi has done everything to portray himself as a hero to the masses, specifically the Arabs and Africans. His military adventures in Chad were also tied to leaving his mark in history and creating a client state by carving up Chad. Qaddafi’s so-called “Green Book” has been forcefully portrayed and venerated as being a great feat in political thought and philosophy. Numerous intellectuals have been forced or bribed to praise it.

Over the years, Colonel Qaddafi has tried to cultivate a romantic figure of himself as a simple man of the people. This includes pretending to live in a tent. He has done everything to make himself stand out. His reprimanding of other Arab dictators, such as King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, at Arab League meetings have made headlines and have been welcomed by many Arabs. While on state visits he has deliberately surrounded himself with an entourage of female body guards with the intent of getting heads to turn. Moreover, he has also presented himself as a so-called imam or leader of the Muslims and a man of God, lecturing about Islam in and outside of Libya.

Libya is run by a government under Qaddafi’s edicts. Fear and cronyism have been the keys to keeping so-called “order” in Libya amongst officials and citizens alike. Libyans and foreigners alike have been killed and have gone missing for over four decades. The case of Lebanon’s Musa Al-Sadr, the founder of the Amal Movement, is one of the most famous of these cases and has always been a hindrance to Lebanese-Libyan relations. Qaddafi has had a very negative effect in creating and conditioning an entire hierarchy of corrupt officials in Tripoli. Each one looks out for their own interests at the expense of the Libyan people.

Fractions and Tensions inside the Hierarchy of Qaddafi’s Regime

Because of the nature of Qaddafi’s regime in Tripoli, there are a lot of internal tensions in Libya and within the regime structure itself. One of these sets of tensions is between Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi and his father’s circle of older ministers. Libyan ministers are generally divided amongst those that gather around Saif Al-Islam and those that are part of the “old guard.”

There are even tensions between Qaddafi and his sons. In 1999, Mutassim Al-Qaddafi tried to ouster his father while Colonel Qaddafi was outside of Libya. Mutassim Qaddafi holds a Libyan cabinet portfolio as a national security advisor. He is also famously known amongst Libyans for being a playboy who has spent much of his time in Europe and abroad. There is also Khames Gaddafi who runs his own militia of thugs, which are called the Khames militia. He has always been thought of as possible contender for succession too against his other brothers.

There have always been fears in Libya about the issue of succession after Colonel Qaddafi is gone. Over the years, Qaddafi has thoroughly purged Libya of any form of organized opposition to him or prevented anyone else, outside his family, from amassing enough power to challenge his authority.

The Issue of Loyalty and Defection in Libya

Undoubtedly, little loyalty is felt for Qaddafi and his family. It has been fear that has kept Libyans in line. At the level of the Libyan government and the Libyan military it has been both fear and self-interest that has kept officials, good and corrupt alike, in line. That mantle of fear has now been dispelled. Statements and declarations of denunciation against Gaddafi’s regime are being heard from officials, towns, and military barracks across Libya.

Aref Sharif, the head of the Libyan Air Force, has renounced Qaddafi. Interior Minister Abdul Fatah Al-Yunis (Al-Younis), who is from Benghazi (Bengasi) and oversees a branch of the special operations work in Libya, has resigned. Yunis is reported to be Qaddafi’s “number two” or second in charge, but this is incorrect. Abdullah Sanusi, the head of Libyan Internal Intelligence and Qaddafi’s relative through marriage, is the closest thing to a “number two” within the structure of power in Tripoli.

Reports have been made about two Libyan pilots defected to Malt and Libyan naval vessels refusing to attack Benghazi. Defections are snowballing amongst the military and government. Yet, there must be pause to analyze the situation.

The Libyan Opposition

At this point, however, it must be asked who is the “opposition” in Libya. The opposition is not a monolithic body. The common denominator is the opposition to the rule of Qaddafi and his family. It has to be said that “actions of opposition or resistance against an oppressor” and an “opposition movement” are also two different things. For the most part, the common people and corrupt Libyan officials, who harbour deep-seated hate towards Qaddafi and his family, are now in the same camp, but there are differences.

There is an authentic form of opposition, which is not organized, and a systematic form of opposition, which is either external or led by figures from within the Libyan regime itself. The authentic people’s internal opposition in Libya is not organized and the people’s “actions of opposition” have been spontaneous. Yet, opposition and revolt has been encouraged and prompted from outside Libya through social media networks, international news stations, and events in the rest of the Arab World. [2]

The leadership of the internal opposition that is emerging in Libya is coming from within the regime itself. Corrupt officials that have rebelled against Gaddafi are not the champions of the people. These opposition figures are not opposed to tyranny; they are merely opposed to the rule of Colonel Qaddafi and his family. Aref Sharif and Al-Yunis are themselves Libyan regime figures.

It has to also be considered that some Libyan officials that have turned against Qaddafi are doing it to save themselves, while others in the future will work to retain or strengthen their positions. Abdel Moneim Al-Honi, the Libyan envoy to the Arab League in Cairo, can be looked at as an example. Al-Honi denounced Qaddafi, but it should be noted that he was one of the members of the group of Libyan officers who executed the coup in 1969 with Qaddafi and that later in 1975 he himself tried to take power in a failed coup. After the failed coup, he would flee Libya and only return in 1990 after Qaddafi pardoned him.

Al-Honi is not the only Libyan diplomat to resign. The Libyan ambassador to India has also done the same. There is an intention on the part of these officials to be members of the power structure in a Libya after the ouster of Qaddafi:

Libyan Ambassador to India Ali al-Essawi told the BBC that he was quitting, opposing his government's violent crackdown on demonstrators.

Mr. Al-Essawi was reported to be a Minister in Tripoli and could be an important figure in an alternative government, in case Libyan President Muammar Qadhafi steps down.

The second Libyan diplomat to put in his papers was Tripoli's Permanent Representative to the Arab League Abdel Moneim al-Honi, who said in Cairo that he had quit his job to “join the revolution” in his country.

“I have submitted my resignation in protest against the acts of repression and violence against demonstrators, and I am joining the ranks of the revolution,” said Mr. Al-Honi. The Second Secretary Hussein Sadiq al Musrati, announced his resignation from China, in an interview with Al-Jazeera, and called on the Army to intervene in the uprising. [3]

Again, these revolting officials, like Al-Yunis and Sharif, are from within the regime. They are not mere diplomats, but former ministers. There is also the possibility that these types of “opposition figures” could have or could make arrangements with external powers.

External Forces at Play in Libya

The governments of the U.S., Britain, France, Germany, and Italy all knew very well that Qaddafi was a despot, but this did not stop any of them from making lucrative deals with Tripoli. When the media covers the violence in Libya, they should also ask, where are the weapons being used coming from? The arms sales that the U.S. and the E.U. have made to Libya should be scrutinized. Is this a part of their democracy promotion programs?

Since rapprochement between the U.S. and Libya, the military forces of both countries have moved closer. Libya and the U.S. have had military transactions and since rapprochement Tripoli has been very interested in buying U.S. military hardware. [4] In 2009, a Pentagon spokeswoman, Lieutenant-Colonel Hibner, affirmed this relationship best: “[The U.S.] will consider Libyan requests for defen[c]e equipment that enables [Libya] to build capabilities in areas that serve our mutual interest [or synchronized U.S. and Libyan interests].” [5] The qualifier here is U.S. interests, meaning that the Pentagon will only arm Libya on the basis of U.S. interests.

In what seems to have happened overnight, a whole new arsenal of U.S. military hardware has appeared in Libya. American-made F-16 jets, Apache helicopters, and ground vehicles are being used inside Libya by Qaddafi. [6] This is a shocking revelation, if corroborated. There are no public records about some of this U.S. military hardware in the the arsenal of the Libyan military. In regards to the F-16s, Libyan jets are traditionally French-made Mirages and Russian-made MiGs.

Silvio Berlusconi and the Italian government have also been strong supporters of Qaddafi’s regime. There is information coming out of Libya that Italian pilots are also being used by the Libyan Air Force. [7] Mercenaries from Chad, Sudan, Niger, and Nigeria are also being used. This has been verified through video evidence coming out of Libya. The Libyan regime is also considering contracting American or European security firms (mercenaries). [8]

The Politics of Al Jazeera

The Libyan government has shut down the internet and phone lines and an information war is underway. Although one of the most professional news networks in the world, it has to be cautioned that Al Jazeera is not a neutral actor. It is subordinate to the Emir of Qatar and the Qatari government, which is also an autocracy. By picking and choosing what to report, Al Jazeera’s coverage of Libya is biased. This is evident when one studies Al Jazeera’s coverage of Bahrain, which has been restrained due to political ties between the leaders of Bahrain and Qatar.

Reports by Al Jazeera about Libyan jets firing on protesters in Tripoli and the major cities are unverified and questionable. [9] Hereto, the reports that Libyan jets have been attacking people in the streets have not been verified. No visual evidence of the jet attacks has been shown, while visual confirmation about other events have been coming out of Libya.

Al Jazeera is not alone in its biased reporting from Libya. The Saudi media is also relishing the events in Libya. Asharq Al-Awsat is a Saudi-owned paper that is strictly aligned to U.S. interests in the Middle East-North Africa (MENA) region. Its editor-in-chief is now running editorials glorifying the Arab League for their decision to suspend Libya, because of the use of force by Tripoli against Libyans protesters – why were such steps not taken for Egypt, Tunisia, Bahrain, or Yemen? Inside and outside the Arab World, the mainstream media is now creating the conditions for some sort of intervention in Libya.

The Role of Foreign Interests in Libya

Qaddafi and his sons have run Libya like a private estate. They have squandered its wealth and natural resources. One of Gaddafi’s son’s is known to have paid the American singer Beyoncé Knowles a million or more U.S. dollars for a private music concert. [10] Foreign corporations also play a role in this story.

The positions and actions of foreign corporations, the U.S., and the European Union in regards to Libya should not be ignored.

Questioning the role of foreign governments and corporations in Libya is very important. The Italian and U.S. governments should be questioned about the role that pilots of Italian nationality and newly bought U.S. weaponry are playing in Libya.

It is very clear that democracy is only used as a convenient pretext against dictators and governments that do not bow down and serve U.S. and E.U. interests. All one needs to do is to just look at the way Mutassim Qaddafi was welcomed with open arms in Washington on April 21, 2009 by Hillary Clinton and the Obama Administration. Upon their meeting, Secretary Clinton publicly said:

I am very pleased to welcome Minister Gaddafi to the State Department. We deeply value the relationship between the United States and Libya. We have many opportunities to deepen and broaden our cooperation and I am very much looking forward to building on this relationship. So Mr.Minister welcome so much here. [11]

What the U.S. and the E.U. want to do now is maximize their gain in Libya. Civil war seems to be what Brussels and Washington have in mind.

The Balkanization of Libya and the Push to Civil War

Qaddafi’s son Saif Al-Islam has made statements on Libyan television about deviant Taliban-like faith-based organizations taking over Libya or attempting to take it over. Nothing is further from the truth. He has also warned of doom and civil war. This is part of the Qaddafi family’s efforts to retain power over Libya, but a path towards civil war is unfolding in Libya.

Amongst the ranking members of the military, Mahdi Al-Arab, the deputy chief of Libya’s military staff, was said to have renounced Qaddafi. [12] Al-Arab, however, has modified his position by saying that he does not want to see Libya spiral into a civil war that will allow foreign intervention and tutelage. [13] This is why Al-Arab prevented the people of his city, Zawarah, from joining the revolt and going to nearby Tripoli. [14]

The drive towards civil war in Libya is fuelled by two factors. One is the nature of Qaddafi’s regime. The other is an external desire to divide and weaken Libya.

Qaddafi has always worked to keep Libyans divided. For years there have been fears that Qaddafi’s sons would start a civil war amongst themselves or that some other high ranking officials could try to jockey for power once Qaddafi was gone. Civil war on the basis of ethnicity, regionalism, or tribalism is not a big threat. Tribes and regions could be co-opted or allied with, but the people that would spark a civil war are regime figures. The threats of civil war arise from the rivalries amongst regime officials themselves. Yet, it must be understood that these rivalries are delibertly being encouraged to divide Libya.

The flames of revolt are being fanned inside Libya. Chaos in the Arab World has been viewed as beneficial in many strategic circles in Washington, Tel Aviv, London, and NATO Headquarters. If Libya falls into a state of civil war or becomes balkanized this will benefit the U.S. and the E.U. in the long-term and will have serious geo-political implications.

All the neighbouring states in North Africa would be destabilized by the events in Libya. West Africa and Central Africa would also be destabilized. The tribal boundaries running in Libya and Chad extend into countries like Niger, Algeria, and Sudan. The chaos in Libya would also have a significant effect on Europe and global energy. Already the events in Libya are being used to validate the drive to control the Arctic Circle and its energy resources. [15]



What Will Be Qaddafi’s End?

It is very likely that Qaddafi will not have as fortunate an exit from power as Ben Ali in Tunisia and Mubarak in Egypt. Finding refuge for Qaddafi will not be easy. In general, Qaddafi is considered a liability by other governments. Saudi Arabia, which can be portrayed as a refuge for Arab dictators, will most likely not give Qaddafi refuge. Libya and Saudi Arabia have bad relations. He is also wanted for investigation in Lebanon. Generally, Qaddafi’s relationship with the leaders of the Arab petro-sheikhdoms in the Persian Gulf is tense and negative. He will not be granted refuge anywhere in the Persian Gulf.

In general, Arab governments will also be afraid to host him. In his efforts to present himself as a champion of the people, he has insulted many of his fellow Arab dictators. There is something to be said, however, when Qaddafi’s statements at Arab League meetings or about Palestine and Iraq are far more popular or candid than the rest of the Arab dictators.

It is highly improbable that any Latin American, European, or ex-Soviet countries will give him refuge. A country in sub-Sahara(n) Africa is the mostly likely place Qaddafi could seek refuge.

His options are limited and he is determined to hold on to power. Civil War seems to be looming in the horizon. It is highly unlikely that he will leave Libya peacefully and the U.S. and its allies have no doubt examined this scenario. On February 23-24, 2010, he met with the leaders of the three biggest tribes in Libya (Werfala, Tarhouna, and Wershfana), to secure their support. [16] His own tribe, Qaddafa is supporting him and it seems that the Madarha and Awlad Slieman tribes are also supporting him. [17]

The Threats of NATO Intervention and U.S. and E.U. Control over Libya

Libya has been in the cross-hairs of the Pentagon for years. According to Wesley Clark, the retired general who was the supreme military commander of NATO, Libya was on a Pentagon list of nations to be invaded after Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. The list included Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Lebanon, Syria, and lastly Iran. In Clark’s own words:

So I came back to see him [a high ranking military officer in the Pentagon] a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, “Are we still going to war with Iraq?” And he said, “Oh, it’s worse than that.” He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, “I just got this down from upstairs” — meaning the Secretary of Defence’s office — “today.” And he said, “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.” [18]

In one way or another all the nations on the list have been attacked directly or indirectly and all of them, but Syria and Iran, have succumbed to the U.S. and its allies. Again, the only exceptions are Iran and its ally Syria. In Lebanon, the U.S. has made partial gains, but it is now receding with the decline of the Hariri-led March 14 Alliance.

Libya started secret negotiations with Washington in 2001 that materialized into formal rapprochement after the fall of Baghdad to British and American troops in 2003. Yet, the U.S. and its allies have always wanted to expand their influence over the Libyan energy sector and to appropriate Libya’s vast wealth. A civil war provides the best cover for this.

Libyans Must Be Aware of the Pretext of Humanitarian Intervention

The Libyan people should be on their high guards. In is clear that the U.S. and the E.U. are supporting both sides. The U.S. and the E.U. are not the allies of the people of the Arab World. In this regard, the U.S. supports Qaddafi on the ground through military hardware, while it also supports the “opposition.” If the so-called Western governments were serious about democracy, they would have cut their business ties to Libya, specifically in the energy sector, before 2011.

Both Washington and the powers in Brussels could co-opt opposition forces. They have supported Gaddafi, but they do not control him or his regime like they controlled Ben Ali in Tunisia and Mubarak in Egypt. Libya is a very different story. The objectives of Washington and Brussels will be to strengthen their control over Libya either through regime change or civil war.

“Actions of opposition to Gaddafi” are strong, but there is no strong organized “opposition movement.” The two are different. Nor is democracy guaranteed, because of the nature of the coalition opposed to Gaddafi, which includes corrupt regime officials.

There is now talk about a “humanitarian intervention” in Libya, similar to Yugoslavia and Iraq. A “no-fly zone” over Libya has been mentioned, as has NATO military intervention. The aims behind such statements are not humanitarian, but are intended to justify foreign interference, which could potentially lead to an invasion. Should this come to fruition, Libya would become an occupied country. Its resources would be plundered and its assets privatized and controlled by foreign corporations as in the case of Iraq.

Today, in Libya and the Arab World the ghosts of Omar Mukhtar and Saladin are still very much alive and active. Getting rid of Gaddafi and his sons alone is not the solution. The entire corrupt system of governance in Libya and the culture of political corruption must be dismantled. At the same time, however, foreign interference or domination should also not be allowed to take root in Libya. If the Libyan people are mobilized and steadfast, they can fight such schemes.

Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya specializes in the Middle East and Central Asia. He is a Research Associate of the Centre for Research on Globalization.

NOTES

[1] “UK Hague: some information that Qaddafi on way to Venezuela,” Reuters, February 21, 2011.
[2] One is taken back by the proliferation of pre-1969 coup Libyan flags. Where did all these flags come from?
[3] “3 Libyan Diplomats resign,” The Hindu, February 22, 2011.
[4] James Wolf, “U.S. eyes arms sales to Libya,” Reuters, March 6, 2009.
[5] Ibid.
[6] Information from sources in Libya; not publicly confirmed yet.
[7] Ibid.
[8] Ibid.
[9] Ibid.; I have been given two explanations for this. The first explanation is that government agents from Libya have been disseminating misinformation to Al Jazeera. This includes reports made to Al Jazeera that jets have been attacking civilians in the streets. Gaddafi has used this to try to discredit Al Jazeera internally in Libya by pointing out to the Libyan people that no jet attacks have occurred and that Al Jazeera is broadcasting misinformation. The second explanation is that Al Jazeera is simply spreading misinformation. Whatever the case, both explanations agree no Libyan jets have attacked protesters yet.
[10] Marine Hyde, “Beyoncé and the $2m gig for Colonel Gaddafi’s son,” The Guardian (U.K.), January 8, 2010; it was Mutassim and not Hannibal Gaddafi that the music concert was for (the article is wrong). The article is not authoritative and has been cited to illustrate that these types of escapades are even vaguely known by the mainstream press in Britain and Western Europe.
[11] U.S. State Department, “Remarks With Libyan National Security Adviser Dr. Mutassim Qadhafi Before Their Meeting,” April 21, 2009: <http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2009a/04/121993.htm>.
[12] Information from sources in Libya; not publicly confirmed yet.
[13] Ibid.
[14] Ibid.
[15] David Ljunggren, “Libya turmoil puts focus on Arctic oil: Greenland,” ed. Robert Wilson, Reuters, February 23, 2011.
[16] Information from sources in Libya; not publicly confirmed yet. I have been told that Qaddafi promised the tribes reform and that he would step down in about one year in time. I was also informed that he claimed that none of his sons would control Libya either.
[17] Ibid.
[18] General (retired) Wesley Clark, “92 Street Y Exclusive Live Interview,” interview by Amy Goodman, Democracy Now, March 2, 2007.

[Veg_Athei_Socialist]

Protesters are gaining serious fire power, head of special forces defected and pledges to help remove gadaffi.
Do you have a source?

[Dimentio]

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/166900.html

Now his own kids are abandoning him.

[Dimentio]

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/166900.html

Now his own kids are abandoning him.

[brigadista]

sorry for multiple posting have deleted them now -slow yesterday-

It looks like NATO is coming for Libya and european countries looking for privatisation opportunities on the oil...

[Sasha]

Do you have a source?

it was on aljazeera (whoohoo, the cable provider here finaly did the good deed and gave every digital client free acces to aljazeera english) i'll see if i can dig it up.

edit, here it is: 6ME051nwziI

also, the third largest city, misurata, a western city and so quite close to tripoli fell to the uprising:
kFYuezsKBTU

[Sasha]

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/166900.html

Now his own kids are abandoning him.


since that report is from the 24th and its the first i have seen that suggests that, if true, quite significant development, i'm for now put my money that is was an false rumour.

[Sasha]

whoohoo, Zawiya, only 50 kilometers west of tripoli is in control of the insurgents. gadaffi organised an propaganda tour for embeded journalists to show he still controled the town only to have thousands of demonstrators streaming to the center hoisting the resistance flag. now the rebels, in possesion of tanks and heavy machineguns are preparing to defend the town against the gadaffi forces that still surround it.
if they manage to remove those forces the way to tripoli is free for an offensive.


Libya rebels gear for fight in city near capital
(AP) – 3 hours ago
ZAWIYA, Libya (AP) — Hundreds of armed anti-government forces backed by rebel troops who control the city closest to the capital Tripoli prepared Sunday to repel an expected offensive by forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi surrounding Zawiya.
An Associated Press reporter who reached Zawiya, 30 miles (50 kilometers) west of Tripoli, confirmed the anti-government rebels are in control of the center of the city of 200,000. They have army tanks and anti-aircraft guns mounted on pickup trucks deployed. But on the outskirts, they are surrounded by pro-Gadhafi forces, also backed by tanks and anti-aircraft guns.
There were at least six checkpoints controlled by troops loyal to Gadhafi on the road from Tripoli to Zawiya. Each checkpoint was reinforced by at least one tank, and the troops concealed their faces with scarves.
Gadhafi has launched by far the bloodiest crackdown in a wave of anti-regime uprising sweeping the Arab world. The United States, Britain and the U.N. Security Council all imposed sanctions on Libya over the weekend. And President Barack Obama said it is time for Gadhafi to go.
Zawiya, a key city close to an oil port and refineries, is the nearest population center to Tripoli to fall into the opposition hands. Police stations and government offices inside the city have been torched and anti-Gadhafi graffiti was everywhere. Many buildings are pockmarked by bullets.
"Gadhafi Out," chanted hundreds in the city center. The charred skeletons of many cars littered the city and most streets were blocked by palm tree trunks or metal barricades. "Free, Free Libya," chanted members of the anti-government forces at the city center.
"Down with Gadhafi, the mass murderer," read graffiti scrawled in the city. An effigy of Gadhafi hung from a light pole in the city's main square. On its chest the words "Execute Gadhafi" were emblazoned.
The square has now become the burial place of six of 11 rebels killed by pro-Gadhafi forces Thursday when they attacked the area to try and dislodge them. Residents reported several skirmishes between the two sides since Thursday.
"We are all wanted," said one rebel at the square who did not want to give his name for fear of reprisals. "Zawiya in our hands is a direct threat to Tripoli."
Rebels from the town and army forces who defected from the regime to join them largely consolidated control of the town on Feb. 24, after an army unit that remained loyal to Gadhafi opened fire on a mosque where residents — some armed with hunting rifles for protection — had been holding a sit-in.
Before Zawiya fell to rebel forces, Gadhafi scolded the city residents in a speech on Tuesday.
"Shame on you, people of Zawiya, control your children," he said. "They are loyal to bin Laden," he said of those involved in the uprising. "What do you have to do with bin Laden, people of Zawiya? They are exploiting young people ... I insist it is bin Laden."
On Feb. 27, local forces repelled an attempt by militiamen and pro-Gadhafi troops to take back the town.
Later, Gadhafi's son, Seif al-Islam, acknowledged to foreign journalists in Tripoli that there were "two minor problems" in Misrata and Zawiya. There, he said, "we are dealing with terrorist people," but he hoped to reach a peaceful settlement with them.
Gadhafi loyalists remain in control of nearby Tripoli, which was reported to be quiet Sunday, with most stores closed and long lines outside the few banks open for business.
City residents thronged the banks after state TV and SMS messages announced in the past few days that each family would receive 500 Libyan dinars (about $400), plus the equivalent of about $100 credit for phone service. State TV said families also will be entitled to 60,000 Libyan dinars (about $49,000) in interest-free loans to buy apartments.
Copyright © 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

[Palestine]

TICK TOCK TICK TOCK, the clock is ticking and the battle for Tripoli is getting closer, I just want to point out that we all should be ready once the battle takes place, we stop everything we're doing and log on to the internet.
I don't care if you're in Antarctica, or in Somalia, you fucking get a connection, and get your fingers typing.

[Sasha]

3:50pm

AFP reports that while Libyan leader Gaddafi may be reviled by many of his own people and the international community, he's enjoying an unexpected surge of popularity - as a music video star. The clip was created by Israeli musician and DJ Noy Alooshe and appears to be wildly popular in the Arab world despite its origins in the Jewish state.
A remix of a rambling 75-minute speech Gaddafi delivered on Tuesday, set to dance music and featuring the strongman alongside footage of two gyrating girls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBY-0n4esNY.), has gone viral on the Internet....racked up almost half a million views on the video-sharing website YouTube since it was posted three days ago. Called "Zenga Zenga," the music video mixes Gaddafi's quotes with club beats, using lines in which he vows to fight "inch by inch, home by home, alley by alley" as the chorus for the song.
But Alooshe also posted online a version of the spoof hit without the scantily clad dancing girls to take into account sensibilities in the Muslim world. This version (below) has some catching up to do in terms of popularity, with about 50,000 hits so far.

6GcUutnU2gk

[Os Cangaceiros]

Damn. I'm glad that the anti-regime forces are still holding it down. It looked like they may had been stuck on the defensive last time I checked in. Good for them.

Gotta remember what happened to the Paris Commune and take it all the way. Granted it's not a socialist uprising, but the lesson applies to any military situation. :thumbup1:

[danyboy27]

sorry for multiple posting have deleted them now -slow yesterday-

It looks like NATO is coming for Libya and european countries looking for privatisation opportunities on the oil...

forget it man, i wouldnt bet 20 buck on that prediction.

NATO have already plenty of shit on their plates with their failures in afghanistan and a lot of their members are going thru s series of spending cut in their military right now.

The us, one of the biggest contributor of NATO and the one most likely to intervene have already 2 war to fight, a crippled economy and a political crisis to fix.

Nobody need NATO for the privatization of oil anyway, but with all the shit libyan are getting right now to gain political and economical freedom, widespread privatisation like Iraq is verry Unlikely.

And seriously, it dosnt matter to NATO if the Oil is privatised or not, what matter is that the oil must flow.

Libya is a member of the OPEP and their prices are already fixed anyway.

[Sasha]

8:40pm

A defected army officer teaches the use of an anti-aircraft gun to civilians who have volunteered to join the rebel army in Benghazi February 27, 2011. The rebel army is preparing to fight Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's forces in Tripoli if necessary, an official in the rebel army said. Via Reuters.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/blog%20%281%29.jpg

[Sasha]

their seem to be the first sigs of an actual rebel army forming, they even posses some scuds:


Libyan militias prepare to join forces before assault on Tripoli

Heavily armed youths and former security forces ready for push, but Gaddafi family stronghold of Sirte looms






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Martin Chulov (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/martin-chulov) in Benghazi
guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/), Sunday 27 February 2011 20.16 GMT
Article history (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/27/libyan-militias-prepare-assault-tripoli#history-link-box)

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/2/27/1298837679729/Libyan-rebel-army-officer-007.jpg Libyan rebel army officers teach the use of weapons to civilians who have volunteered for the rebel army in Benghazi. Photograph: Suhaib Salem/Reuters Groups of revolutionaries are starting to move towards western Libya (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/libya) in an attempt to link up with opposition militias near Tripoli, setting the stage for a final assault on the capital – perhaps within weeks.
The groups are heavily armed with military weapons, which have been looted from every army base and police headquarters east of the central oil town of Ras Lusafa. They have fought skirmishes with pro-regime forces near the Gaddafi family stronghold of Sirte, but have so far avoided intensive clashes.
Organisers in Benghazi said the groups were mostly youths and former security forces who defected during the battles that led to the fall of the city.
Ramadan Faitoura, a member of the newly formed interim government in Libya's second city, said the groups were not part of an official push westward, although they have the support of the nascent leadership.
"We have a lot of weapons, and they have a lot of motivation," he said. "My job is to make the connections."
There appear to be plenty of volunteers along the way. In the town of Adjbadiya, 100 miles south of Benghazi, youths talked enthusiastically about travelling to the capital if asked to do so.
"There is nothing for us here at all," said Khaled Ahmed in the town's central square. "This whole place has been forgotten about for 42 years."
A crowd quickly gathered around him, all shouting the same demands. "Gaddafi gave us nothing," one said. " He stole everything and the people live like this."
"I'll go to Tripoli tomorrow," said another.
Like much else in this 10-day-old revolution, firm plans to take the capital have not moved past the drawing board. However, on the streets of the country's most rebellious city there is a growing restlessness that the dramatic ousting of Gaddafi loyalists last weekend has not been met by similar success in the capital.
"That's why the youths are going there," he said. "They are not being told what to do and we can't stop them. They have not been able to enter [the city of] Sirte and have to move a long way to the south to avoid the Gaddafi forces. It's the long way there."
Some groups have been given access to the many tonnes of stolen weapons, but the huge arsenals on open display early last week are being kept in reserve in the unlikely event of a counter-assault by Gaddafi loyalists.
The question of what to do with the weapons will be determined by a national council, which was announced today , and which has been given the task of putting a political face on the revolution. Gaddafi's former justice minister, Mustafa Mohamed Abud Ajleil, will run the national council and a number of the dictator's former loyalist generals will be given prominent roles.
"We want to see if we can co-ordinate between municipal councils from east and west to form an organising body," said Salwa Bugaighis, a lawyer involved in the Benghazi coalition.
"One of the aims of the body is to help the resistance in Tripoli through military and other means," she said.
Sirte, halfway along the coastal road to Tripoli, looms as a major obstacle for anyone travelling west from Benghazi. Regime checkpoints have been set up on the outskirts of the city and attempts by opposition groups to seize control have so far been unsuccessful.
"It has become more of a stronghold for Gaddafi than the capital," said a member of the organising committee, which has set up in Benghazi's court house. "Sirte could be a key to the success of all this. If it falls, there is no stopping people on the way to Tripoli."
Sirte is a Gaddafi family stronghold that continues to enjoy tribal loyalty. However opposition groups believe that could wane if enough members of the area's dominant tribe become convinced that Gaddafi's attempt to remain in control is a lost cause.
Some military officers and security chiefs have defected to the opposition there, but not in nearly the same numbers as their counterparts in the east, which is now totally under opposition control.
Evacuations of foreign nationals continued in Benghazi today , with around 300 people expected to board the Royal Navy frigate HMS Cumberland, which docked mid-afternoon after an earlier run to Malta.
The warship had earlier taken 207 people to Malta and could return for a third time to collect the estimated 300 Britons left behind.
Most remaining foreigners are employed in Libya's oil industry, which has been shut down by opposition groups, who seized refineries, rigs and wells as Gaddafi forces retreated westwards.
Some members of the national council suggested that oil production would soon be allowed to start again.
One oil worker, Canadian John Race, said he and his colleagues had turned out the lights at their desert field 400 miles south of Benghazi in order to avoid attracting attention as news of last weekend's fighting spread. "Nothing came our way though," he said before boarding the Cumberland. "There was no trouble."
High seas caused by winter storms continue to foil alternative attempts to reach Tripoli, or rebel-held towns in the west, such as Musrati, through the Gulf of Sirte.
One fisherman in Benghazi's port said two fishing boats had been sunk by missiles fired from the shore near Sirte during the past week. He also displayed a video of a scud missile on the back of a large lorry that had been seized by rebels.
A former military officer said there three other scuds had been seized – all of them up to 20 years old – and were being kept as part of a rebel armoury.

[Os Cangaceiros]

African mercenaries would be immune from war crimes prosecution (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8350968/Libya-African-mercenaries-immune-from-prosecution-for-war-crimes.html)

[Sasha]

the insurgents shot down an military plane!

12:20pm

The Reuters news agency reports opponents of the Libyan leader have held off an attack by pro-government forces and shot down a military aircraft near the town of Misurata.

An aircraft was shot down this morning while it was firing on the local radio station. Protesters captured its crew," Reuters reported, citing a witness, Mohamed.
"Fighting to control the military air base (near Misurata) started last night and is still going on. Gaddafi's forces control only a small part of the base. Protesters control a large part of this base where there is ammunition."
"Misurata is still under the control of the protesters," he said.


:thumbup1:

[Sasha]

Timestamp:


6:48am


We're getting reports that the country's second most important military airport, not far from Benghazi, has fallen to the protesters.
Private jets and civilian aircraft at the Al Banin airport were seen grounded. Military personnel say they have joined the people's revolution.
If true, the takeover would mark another blow to Gaddafi's regime.

[Sasha]

1:44am

We hear that one of Libya's two main mobile phone providers has been hacked - by it's own employees. They've been topping up everyone's credit to ensure no-one runs out, a contact tells our correspondent in Benghazi. Unfortunately, it doesn' t help much - as network coverage is pretty poor and intermittent, he tells us.


:thumbup1:

[danyboy27]

1449: US Sec of State Hillary Clinton says: "It is not my mother's or even my world anymore… Young people know everything that is going on everywhere, and they will no longer tolerate a status quo that blocks their aspiriatons. This [Arab spring] is a hopeful season for all humanity."




Good tactics i must say. now that protest are spreading like wildfire trought the middle east, the only hope for american diplomacy to contain damages is to stand with the protesters while refraining themselves from being too engaged into the struggles.

Smart move, smart move. that being said, it appear that the time when it was good for the us to rely on dictatorship is effectively over.

they will be forced for now on to deal with theses governement the same way they would deal with any normal governement.

[danyboy27]

1454: The BBC's Lyse Doucet in Benghazi says lots of the shops are open, there's traffic on the streets and new committees are being set up in the courthouse. The pre-Gaddafi flag is flying and people are excited about "free Libya".

[danyboy27]

1459: Pro-Gaddafi jets have struck ammunition depots near Libya's second city of Benghazi, witnesses tell AFP news agency.

i doubt there was still amunition left in those depots.

i am not in the military and the first thing i would have done if i had a chance is to move the supply to a safer place.

[danyboy27]

1537: Col Gaddafi has appointed the head of foreign intelligence service to speak to the rebel leadership in the east of the country, according to al-Jazeera TV.

[Sasha]

5:54pm

David Cameron, the British prime minister, says that his country is not ruling out the use of military force in Libya.
In a statement before parliament, he said:

We do not in any way rule out the use of military assets.
We must not tolerate this regime using military force against its own people. In that context I have asked the ministry of defence and the chief of the defence staff to work with our allies on plans for a military no-fly zone."


5:20pm

White House press secretary Jay Carney has said that going into exile would be one option for Muammar Gaddafi, but refused to comment on any speculation that the US would facilitate said exile. He added that the US was still considering all options on Libya to be on the table, and that the matter of a possible no-fly zone was being discussed with allies.


5:16pm


Speaking to Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland, Abdul-Fatah Younis, the former head of Libyan Special Forces who renounced his post last week, said he was not ruling out calling in an Arab air force, a European air force or the United States Air Force for air support, in that order of preference.
He defined air support as: protecting troops, attacking targets and protecting civilian aircraft and population centres.
He asserted that he was not considering the possibility of foreign troops on Libyan soil.

[danyboy27]

i dont have any beef with any countries shutting down planes controlled by serbian mercenaries.

[Sasha]

3.55pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/feb/28/arab-and-middle-east-protests-libya#block-46) Martin Chulov is in a military base in Benghazi (http://audioboo.fm/boos/289968-martinchulov-reports-from-benghazi-anti-gaddafi-forces-preparing-weapons), where military personnel who defected from the Gaddafi regime are preparing weapons for a "potential assault on the capital".

"It's one of the only bases in the city that wasn't burned and pillaged during the violent clashes of a week ago, and there was a reason for that – it was always the intention of the rebel leaders to use it as a place to regroup, to restage, to prepare weapons for some potential assault on the capital at some point, and that's indeed what they're doing now."
Listen! (http://audioboo.fm/boos/289968-martinchulov-reports-from-benghazi-anti-gaddafi-forces-preparing-weapons.mp3?source=embed)

"For the moment they're just staging, they're preparing themselves," Martin says.
"This could take a long time, it could take weeks to play out, it's not going to be a rapid capitulation."

[danyboy27]

damn. hoo well, i guess it make sense. if they fail, they will fail hard.

[Sasha]

4.33pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/feb/28/arab-and-middle-east-protests-libya#block-54) Peter Beaumont writes from Sabratha, which is about 50 miles west of Tripoli and remains under government control. He and other international journalists had asked to see the town because they had heard about violence and protests there. Painted-over anti-Gaddafi graffiti is still visible on the walls.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2007/10/17/peter_beaumont_60x60.jpg Also visible are the damaged buildings close to the square: the offices of the social affairs ministry with its broken windows; the theatre littered with debris, its curtains torn down from the stage and costumes scattered in the foyer. A police station, also damaged.
A man says: "If you come here at night everyone is against Gaddafi. In the day time it is a different story. Ninety per cent are against him. I'm worried that people might hear me speaking to you. Even some of the people demonstrating here. But who can blame them? These people need the money."
Most of the demonstrators insist that the claims of violence in their town between opposition and supporters of the regime are nothing but a media lie put about by al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya.
Some supporters do stray from the party line. They'll tell you that there was a clash in Sabratha's centre but it involved only 20 opposition people easily subdued by the population with no need to call in the army. Or 50 of them. Others say 100.
"No-one died here," shouts another of the regime's supporters, addressing a monologue at the visiting reporters. "There are no shortages of food or petrol. It is safe here. There is no violence. Everything is good."
A short drive west along the coast beyond the town of Zawiyah - which is in opposition hands - Sabratha appears by daylight at least to be firmly under control of the regime's supporters. In that it confirms the impression of a patch work picture of the countryside around the capital Tripoli. For every town that has risen up in support of the rebellion another exists where the opposition has been subdued or that remains loyal.
An American colleague is confronted by a man who speaks at him for several minutes pouing out his praise for Colonel Gaddafi. When the man is finally finished, he asks: "Did someone pay you to say that?" The man quickly agrees.

[danyboy27]

i am still affraid they are gonna loose the momentum if they dont strike now.

will give time for gadafi and his son to consolidate their position on tripoli.

[Sasha]

damn. hoo well, i guess it make sense. if they fail, they will fail hard.


dont forget, the only parts of the country very firmly under opposition controll, including sufficient weapons and trained military with intact units is the east (benghazi etc), for them its impossible to march on tripoli as long as there is no no-fly zone established as they will just be blown to bits on the long dessert roads.
best they can do is make it very clear to their former colleagues in tripoli that the rebellion wont be crushed without major civilwar hopefully convincing the military in the west that its going to be preverable to take out ghadaffi than fighting the insurgency.
besides, as long as they are firmly in control of the east they controll the oil and with that, esp since gadaffi cant get to his money abroad, the lifeline of the regime.
gadaffi can kill as much of his citizens as he wants but without the oil, gadaffi is nothing.

[danyboy27]

its just fucking lame that the libyan might need a no-fly zone.

[Sasha]

not as lame as living under a dictator for 41 years who did his upmost best to destroy any viable chance that the army or any civilian group could ever become a thread to his rule.
even to the extend of renting out his primary airpower to serbian mercenaries
if i was in that situation i would take any help i could get.

[danyboy27]

not as lame as living under a dictator for 41 years who did his upmost best to destroy any viable chance that the army or any civilian group could ever become a thread to his rule.
even to the extend of renting out his primary airpower to serbian mercenaries
if i was in that situation i would take any help i could get.


agreed, but what do you think of the rumor that such move could geopardize further revolutions in the middle east?

[Sasha]

as said by the special forces comander:


Speaking to Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland, Abdul-Fatah Younis, the former head of Libyan Special Forces who renounced his post last week, said he was not ruling out calling in an Arab air force, a European air force or the United States Air Force for air support, in that order of preference.
He defined air support as: protecting troops, attacking targets and protecting civilian aircraft and population centres.
He asserted that he was not considering the possibility of foreign troops on Libyan soil.

i think they are well aware of the problems

[danyboy27]

1718: The Guardian reports that Libya's ethnic Berbers are joining the anti-Gaddafi movement to reclaim their ancient identity. "We never thought this could happen in our lifetime," one Amazigh tribesman tells the newspaper. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/28/libya-amazigh-identity-tribes-gaddafi?CMP=twt_gu)

[danyboy27]

1739: Ibrahim, a resident of the - for now - opposition-held city of Zawiyah, has told Reuters news agency by phone: "We are expecting attacks at any moment by brigades belonging to [Col Gaddafi's son] Khamis. They are on the outskirts of the town, about 5-7 km away. They are in large numbers."

[danyboy27]

1743: In an interview with the BBC, Col Gaddafi refuses to acknowledge that demonstrations are taking place in Tripoli.


1742: Enough Gaddafi (http://twitter.com/#%21/EnoughGaddafi) tweets: "Rumors about turmoil within #gaddafi inner circle, people being fired and so on, I wonder what effect pressure is having? #libya #feb17"

[danyboy27]

1746: BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner says the survival of the Gaddafi regime depends on being able to pay and support the mercenaries and paramilitaries keeping them in power: "They have a lot of money stashed away and if they can get their hands on that they can probably stay in power, at least in Tripoli for the time being."


1745: Col Gaddafi tells the BBC: "All my people love me. They would die to protect me."




this guy is pathetic.

[Sasha]

1742: Enough Gaddafi (http://twitter.com/#%21/EnoughGaddafi) tweets: "Rumors about turmoil within #gaddafi inner circle, people being fired and so on, I wonder what effect pressure is having? #libya #feb17"



from an who's who on al jazeera there are rumours some very high up are rebelling:

Abdulsalam Jalloud Formerly the second in command in Libya after leading the 1969 coup with Gaddafi. A former prime minister and interlocutor with western powers in the 1970s and 1980s. Has not been heard from since the beginning of unrest and is rumoured to have submitted his resignation - and/or to be under house arrest.
Mustafa Al-Kharoubi Member of the Revolutionary Command Council and part of the cadre which led the 1969 coup. He is a former head of military intelligence and an interlocutor with the Arab countries until the 1990s. He has also not been heard from since the beginning of the unrest and is rumoured to have submitted his resignation and/or to be under house arrest.
Al-Khoueldi al-Hamidi Member of General Provisional Committee for Defence. He is a member of the Revolutionary Command Council and led the 1969 coup with Gaddafi. He has also not been heard from since the beginning of the unrest and is rumoured to have submitted his resignation and/or to be under house arrest.



source: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/2011227192852808945.html

[freepalestine]

yeh forget about about chavez







-------------------------------------



U.S. repositioning forces around Libya: Pentagon


Reuters




February 28, 2011

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. military is repositioning naval and air forces around Libya, a Pentagon official said on Monday, as international demands intensify for an end to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's four-decade rule.

"We have planners working and various contingency plans and I think it's safe to say as part of that we're repositioning forces to be able to provide for that flexibility once decisions are made ... to be able to provide options and flexibility," said Colonel David Lapan, a Pentagon spokesman.

"We're still in that planning and preparing mode should we be called upon to do any of those types of missions, whether humanitarian and otherwise."

Lapan declined to give details about the types of ships or units being repositioned or how U.S. commanders plan to use them.

"No decisions have been made yet," he said.


The Pentagon now has two aircraft carriers in its naval command region that includes the Arabian Sea and Gulf, Lapan said, but does not have any carriers in the Mediterranean.

(Reporting by Missy Ryan; Editing by Jackie Frank)






:: Article nr. 75420 sent on 28-feb-2011 18:42 ECT


www.uruknet.info?p=75420 (http://www.uruknet.info?p=75420)

Link: www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/28/us-usa-libya-forces-idUSTRE71R4UM20110228</I> (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/28/us-usa-libya-forces-idUSTRE71R4UM20110228)

[Dimmu]

British Prime Minister David Cameron said his country wouldn't rule out the use of "military assets" in confronting Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi. Mr. Cameron also told Parliament that he has asked the Ministry of Defence to work with "our allies" on plans for a military no-fly zone.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704615504576172383796304482.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

[danyboy27]

lets shot down those mercenaries pilots.

has i said again, if their intervention is limited to that, i would call it fair.

i mean, basicly, gadafi is cheating, something even mubarak didnt do.

he is using exterior aid to stay in power, any move dirrected at removing this advantage to him would even the score greatly.

on the other hand, there is no advantage for any regional power to send ground troops.

[danyboy27]

1820: Col Gaddafi rejected any suggestion that his forces had fired on demonstrators, or had been ordered to do so, says Jeremy Bowen.




how the hell?

i mean, there are thousand of video footages of this over the internet, and he keep deny it?

[freepalestine]

lets shot down those mercenaries pilots.

has i said again, if their intervention is limited to that, i would call it fair.

i mean, basicly, gadafi is cheating, something even mubarak didnt do.

he is using exterior aid to stay in power, any move dirrected at removing this advantage to him would even the score greatly.

on the other hand, there is no advantage for any regional power to send ground troops.any intervention by foreign ,especially western govts will be opposed by virtually all arabs.
why are USA/eu more concerned for libya- theyve backed qaddaffi for nearly 20 years -as they did with govts inegypt,tunisia etc- getting rid of those regimes,was also getting rid of u.s. interference there.
the usa etc ,are concerned about the oil etc ,they dont care about the people there,just as in iraq

[Sasha]

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/BlogsMainImage/LibyaBlogOutsde.jpg

[danyboy27]

psycho mentionned later the problem of gadafi mercenary pilots.

without any exterior help, how do you organize a sufficent assault without being bombed into pieces.

[Dimentio]

I hope and think he doesn't have the firepower to pull that off. His airforce is pretty small, and I choose to take the lack of aerial assaults recently as an indication that he is running out of ammo.

[danyboy27]

I hope and think he doesn't have the firepower to pull that off. His airforce is pretty small, and I choose to take the lack of aerial assaults recently as an indication that he is running out of ammo.

who know? with all the sanction maybe those mercenaries will just leave.

[ckaihatsu]

psycho mentionned later the problem of gadafi mercenary pilots.

without any exterior help, how do you organize a sufficent assault without being bombed into pieces.


See post #82.

[Dimentio]

who know? with all the sanction maybe those mercenaries will just leave.

Most of them are not mercs. Most of them are Libyans of Sub-saharan descent (1,5 million people), a lot of whom are former Gaddafi-backed guerillas from Sierra Leone, Liberia and other warzones.

[danyboy27]

See post #82.

are you kidding me?

against helicopter maybe, but fighter jet....

[Luís Henrique]

Gaddafy's attacks on As-Zawya repelled:

http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/02/28/2010255/us-moves-ships-aircraft-as-libya.html

And probably in Misrata too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12603090

Luís Henrique

[danyboy27]

2:04am

The head of Al Wahat Security Directorate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Wahat_District), Brigadier Musa’ed Al Mansouri, and the head of Jabel Al Akhdar Security Directorate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebel_Akhdar_%28Libya%29), Brigadier Hassan Ibrahim Al Qarawi, have defected and joined the ‘revolution’:

We, Brigadier Musa’ed Ghaidan Al Mansouri the Head Al Wahat Security Directorate, and Brigadier Hassan Ibrahim Al Qarawi, the former head of Al Jabel Al Akhadar Security Directorate, announce our loyalty and the joining to the Feb 17 revolution of the Libyan people that aims for freedom, dignity and social justice and to end the injustice and oppression.


gadafi owned again, and again, and again.

[Sasha]

more soldiers defect:

3:47am

Latest from Libya, where military officers are defecting from Gaddafi's side to join the growing opposition:

I, Brigadier Dawood Issa Al Qafsi, declare that I join the Feb 17 revolution. With me are officers, non commissioned officers and soldiers in the Armed Forces units in Ajdabia, Braiga, Bisher, Ogaila, Sultan and Zwaitina ... Glory to the martyrs of the revolution ... We announce that we join the Libyan Military Council formed in Benghazi.
At this evening of Feb 28th, two war planes took off from Al Qurdabiyeh base in Sirte for a raid on the town of Ajdabia. It was confronted by Anti-aircraft guns and forced it to flee without human casualties. We call on our honorable people in Sirte to intervene and to advice their sons to refuse bombarding any Libyan town to spare the blood of the innocent of our great people.

[Honggweilo]

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183860_1880819262896_1313756485_2178114_2875395_n. jpg

[Sasha]

:36pm A statement posted online purports to be from the youth of Tripoli, pledging support for the "interim national council" formed in Benghazi - and calling for mass demonstrations this Friday:
You can read the original by clicking here (http://twitdoc.com/view.asp?sid=2M4&ext=PDF&lcl=statementwithtranslation.pdf&usr=feb17voices&doc=49752090&key=key-26lsut28sh7ayvqi5au7).
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/feb17statement_crop.jpg

[danyboy27]

1418: Staff Brig Gen Mansour Mohammed Abu Hajar, head of the Libyan army's armoured vehicles and infantry division in Benghazi, has told al-Arabiya that he and the division's personnel have joined the rebels. "[We] announce our joining of this blessed revolution, which we hope God Almighty will grant success and victory. We denounce the killing and the extermination of defenceless youths by the security brigades and hired mercenaries. I and all the division's personnel put ourselves at the disposal of this glorious revolution," he says.

[Sasha]

The day the Katiba fell
Libya's turning point may have come when protesters overwhelmed a barracks in Benghazi.

Evan Hill Last Modified: 01 Mar 2011 08:58 GMT



http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/Images/2011/3/1/201131896279580_20.jpg

Gaddafi's forces lost control of the Katiba after three days of fierce clashes [Evan Hill/Al Jazeera]


Benghazi, Libya - If Benghazi, Libya's second city, has become the symbolic heart of the revolution in this north African nation, then the battle to overwhelm the military garrison here was the revolt's key turning point.
Over the course of three days, civilians opposed to the 42-year rule of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi managed to outlast and overpower a fortified base guarded by detachments of several Libyan military units, one of them the feared and reportedly highly trained Khamis Brigade - a special forces unit led by Gaddafi's youngest son.
In the end, both anti-government protesters and Gaddafi loyalists lost hundreds and many more were wounded, and Gaddafi's forces fled the city.
Benghazi fell completely into opposition hands and became the seat of the national coalition bent on ending the Gaddafi regime. The once-feared ramparts of Gaddafi's security forces sit smoldering and crumbled, a site for tourists.

A sudden spark
Inside the destroyed walls of the Katiba - which means battalion or phalanx in Arabic, but is shorthand in Benghazi for the garrison - the roof of a grandstand overlooking a broad concrete parade ground droops low, its supporting columns cracked, its white and green walls - the standard colour of Gaddafi's regime - stained black by fire.

A gaping hole in the northern wall of the compound, all twisted metal bars and jagged concrete blocks, marks the spot where protesters first managed to push through under a hail of gunfire. In white spray-paint, someone has written "Martyrs' Square" in Arabic on an unhinged metal gate that hangs off the breach.
Though activists were preparing a "day of rage" for February 17 to follow successful uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt, protests actually began in Benghazi on February 15, when hundreds of citizens angry over the arrest of human rights lawyer Fathy Terbil took to the streets.
Terbil had been representing the families of thousands of inmates who were reportedly slaughtered by the regime at Abu Salim prison in Tripoli in 1996. The sudden demonstrations, which evolved into anti-Gaddafi protests, took some young, politically active Benghazi residents by surprise.
"We just got talking at school and amongst my peers and friends, and you were asked, 'Are you gonna protest on the 17th,' and people were scared and said, 'If a lot of people come out, then I'll come out,'" said Ahmed Sanalla, a 26-year-old UK resident who has spent the past four years studying medicine at Garyounis University in Benghazi.
"Once they hit the ground, we joined, and then everyone else came along."
That first day, anti-Gaddafi protesters clashed with regime supporters on Jamal Abdel Nasser Street, a main thoroughfare that runs through the centre of town toward the Mediterranean Sea.
A rock-throwing battle erupted between the two sides. At one point, a teenage boy clamoured up a post bearing a portrait of Gaddafi and tore it down. The crowd reacted with joy.
Police responded with force. Officers swarmed into the area from the main security headquarters. Armoured trucks fired hot water cannons at the protesters.
"That pretty much kicked off the whole thing," Sanalla said.

Dozens of deaths
On February 16, security forces kept a tight lid on Benghazi. But the next day, the designated "day of rage," a crowd of thousands of people including lawyers and judges gathered in the square outside the city's main courthouse at the water's edge.
The rare display of public anger prompted a deadly response from local security forces, who had almost no experience of domestic crowd control. Foreign journalists had yet to reach Benghazi, but witnesses reported that police had quickly opened fire with live ammunition, killing at least six people.
Meanwhile, protests sprang up in the cities of Baida and Tobruk, to the east, and the day closed with at least 24 people dead, according to a Human Rights Watch estimate.

http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/imagecache/218/330/mritems/Images/2011/3/1/20113181651132580_20.jpg
Destroyed and melted vehicles littered the sprawling Katiba compound. [Evan Hill/Al Jazeera]


"The security forces' vicious attacks on peaceful demonstrators lay bare the reality of Muammar Gaddafi's brutality when faced with any internal dissent," Sarah Leah Whitson, the group's Middle East and North Africa director, said.
Gaddafi had apparently had enough. The following day, a Friday, armed men wearing now infamous yellow construction hard hats flooded into Benghazi's streets.
Residents say the thugs were ferried into Benghazi's local airport by Afriqiyah airlines from elsewhere in Libya, or from neighbouring countries to the south, such as Chad and Niger.
Though many Libyans descend from sub-Saharan ancestry, making darker skin tones and non-Arab facial features a fairly common sight on the streets, anti-regime protesters were quick to label their attackers "African mercenaries".
After mid-day prayers, crowds began a funeral procession bound for a local cemetery to honour Thursday's dead. They marched past the main security headquarters in a neighbourhood called Hawari. As they stood outside, chanting in protest, police opened fire from the roof and atop the walls.
Benghazi fell into chaos. Photographs and video posted on the Internet by residents shows the men in hard hats rampaging through the city's streets, firing handguns into the air and breaking into homes as terrified onlookers scream in horror from their balconies.
Witnesses say the men travelled in unmarked civilian cars and ambulances and fired assault rifles indiscriminately from their windows.
Army troops stationed in the city made encouraging statements to thousands of protesters who remained camped outside the main courthouse, but security forces stormed the crowd in the predawn hours that night, firing tear gas.
Human Rights Watch was forced to update its death toll continually; citing sources in Benghazi's hospitals, the organisation said that 35 people had been killed in the city on Friday alone, most by gunfire.
In a country of only six million people - and a city of roughly 750,000 - where families trace their roots to extensive tribal networks, deaths do not go unnoticed or unrequited.
"Once blood was spilled, that was it," Sanalla said.

'Let him die'
The tide began to turn for the anti-regime forces on Saturday. Despite an Internet shut down and heavy restrictions on mobile phone communications, protesters still managed to mass in Benghazi.
They focused their rage on whatever symbols of the regime they could lay their hands on. Courts, police stations, prisons and a museum honouring the Gaddafi-written founding text of modern Libya - the Green Book - were all torched, until only the Katiba and the security building in Hawari remained.
Standing on the roof of the destroyed security headquarters on Sunday, Mohammed al-Huni, a young protester, recalled the fight. Between the exterior and interior walls of the "muderiya," or directorate, as the compound is called, the ground was still covered with scores of rocks - the protesters' most common weapon.
Facing men armed with rifles, the youth threw stones, converging on the building from the north and west. They used homemade explosives to break through outer gates, but under heavy fire from what witnesses identified as 14.5mm anti-aircraft guns, they withdrew.
Residents described a "massacre"; doctors in Benghazi said children as young as eight had been killed, and grotesque images of bodies dismembered by high-calibre ammunition emerged from Benghazi hospitals.
Asim Mahmoud, a 23-year-old student in the Garyounis University college of literature, worked occasionally inside the muderiya taking fingerprints for security forces. On Sunday, perusing the wreckage of rooms once occupied by high-ranking officers, he recounted with al-Huni the day the protesters massed and tried to storm the building.
Mahmoud's cousin had been shot during a confrontation at the Katiba, and he was infuriated by Gaddafi's arrogant statements that described protesters as drug addicts and terrorists. On the Saturday of the first assault, he hid inside with other security employees.
The next day, he changed out of his uniform, slipped out a side door, and ran to join the opposition. Al-Huni and Mahmoud now serve together as members of a civilian team guarding the muderiya from looters or Gaddafi loyalists.
Crowds drew close to the Katiba walls and began to hurl stones. Soldiers inside responded with gunfire. The exchanges continued until the soldiers called a truce.
They called out to the protesters that they were on the people's side, opened the gates and beckoned the men closer to negotiate. Tawfik Omran, a 30-year-old engineer who was filming the confrontation, said his comrades told him to stay behind as they went forward, so he could document what happened.
When the youth approached to within around six metres, the army opened fire again, mowing down the front line of protesters. The men around Omran surged forward, yelling "God is great!" Omran turned to hold back a man who was trying to run ahead. The man fell. Omran tried to pick him up by his coat. Then he noticed the blood pouring out; the man had been shot in the neck.
Omran was overwhelmed by advancing soldiers. He pointed to the man, saying he had been severely injured and needed to go to the hospital. The soldiers kicked the man. "Let him die," they said, according to Omran. Then they dragged Omran inside the compound and threw him into an underground prison until he was a later saved by protesters.

The army switches sides
On Sunday, the anti-regime forces set out to finish the job. Though the day started quietly, protest crowds began to mass in the afternoon. They equipped themselves with "joulateena" - small, homemade bombs that residents traditionally toss into the sea and detonate to kill a dozen fish at a time.
Outside the Katiba, as dusk arrived, men driving commandeered bulldozers and trucks loaded with petrol attempted to ram the walls. Many were shot to death behind their drivers' wheels, their vehicles slowing to a halt in the street. Volunteer ambulance drivers careened through the combat, picking up victims and taking them to nearby hospitals.

http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/imagecache/218/330/mritems/Images/2011/3/1/20113181431145621_20.jpg
In one room, tongue depressors, antiseptic liquid, medicine and bandaids littered the floor. [Evan Hill/Al Jazeera]


At some point in the evening, longtime Gaddafi regime loyalist and special forces commander Abdel Fattah Younes defected to the protesters' side.
Troops from his unit, based on the outskirts of town, arrived at the opposite side of the Katiba armed with machine guns and driving trucks mounted with anti-aircraft guns. Two tanks under Younes's command followed.
Younes's was the highest-profile defection and the most immediately beneficial to the protesters, but government troops had been switching sides for days since the uprising began.
Zakaria Abdelrahman al-Jihani, 24, left his military post on February 15 to return to Benghazi, his hometown.
Standing guard inside a former regime prison in Benghazi on Friday guarding a stockpile of returned weapons, al-Jihani said he had joined the army in 2004 and become a member of the Thafeda Bashariya, a naval commando unit. Before the uprising, his unit was assigned to guard an important oil installation at Ras Lanuf, several hundred kilometers west of Benghazi, near the Gaddafi stronghold of Sirte.
As protests broke out, al-Jihani's commanders granted him and others leave to return home.
"The only thing in my mind was getting a weapon," he said. "People were fighting with stones. They started shooting them with anti-aircraft guns."
Al-Jihani and around 70 others, including friends from his unit, visited a nearby base the Friday before the Katiba attack and found it empty; the soldiers there had already joined the people, he said. They took rocket-propelled grenade launchers, AK-47s and anti-aircraft guns.
On Sunday, armed protesters using strategies similar to their comrades at the Katiba overwhelmed the security headquarters in Hawari and began acquiring more weapons there. The attack on the Katiba intensified, and protesters began breaching its walls and torching the barracks near the exterior.
According to some protesters, Younis, a longtime Benghazi resident, granted safe passage out of the city to loyalist troops escaping the Katiba.
As anti-regime forces gained access to the interior of the base, they saw evidence of the troops' divided loyalties. Elements of three units had been stationed there to quell the uprising: The Fadheel brigade, out of Sitre; the Khamis brigade, from Tripoli; and the Tariq brigade, which was based in the southern town of Sabha.
Some soldiers in the Fadheel brigade, Omran said, were from Benghazi or had familial connections there and refused to fire on the protesters. A dozen or more of them were shot to death by their fellow soldiers, he said. Protesters would later discover the severely burned bodies of soldiers inside the Katiba, their hands tied behind their backs.
On Sunday night, at around 9:30, the Katiba battle ended. Gaddafi loyalists and mercenaries had been killed or captured, or had melted into the countryside or fled back to Tripoli. Opposition forces had won battle to free Benghazi, now they would have to figure out how to govern.

source: http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/spotlight/libya/2011/03/20113175840189620.html

[Dimentio]

Fighting in the eastern part of the country.

[Sasha]

oh noes, another libyan welcomes imperialism:


8:03pm

Murad Warfally, of the University of Benghazi, tells Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland of today's fighting in Brega.
It has been a great battle - and the Libyan people have won that battle.
I am not worried. I am sending a mesage to Gaddafi: I am not scared of him, he is scared of us. I give thanks for today - he has chosen this battle. And it has been good exercise for our fighters.

The most important thing is that we have heart - we are brave. Today, we defeated him just using rifles. He used airplanes, rockets, heavy weapons - but we have heart, and we won.

We have no means to fight the airplanes. On the ground, we will win. We want a no fly zone, or more blood will be spilled on Libyan soil.

The Libyan people want freedom of speech - we want to live like people in America or in Europe, to be normal and have a normal life. We want to be able to sleep in our beds without fear of being arrested by Gaddafi's secret police.
dont these people know what they are saying? what is gadaffi stealling almost all of the oil money and sending the secret police when the alternative is having the capitalists stealing most of the oil money and opening an mcdonalds?

(and that is even disregarding the possibilitys the libyans might not even go for full blown US style capitalism and might go for some scandinavian/dutch natural resources funded social democracy)

[Sasha]

7:17pm

Tweets from Benghazi report family members in Tripoli - anyone originally from east Libya - are being arrested.

[Sasha]

Libya's Quryna newspaper has reported that Gaddafi has sacked perhaps his most trusted aide, his brother-in-law and enforcer in-chief Abdullah Senoussi. If true, it could indicate serious disagreements at the very heart of the regime.
Senussi, profiled here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/22/gaddafi-abdullah-senussi-brutal-right-hand-man?INTCMP=SRCH), is married to a sister of Gaddafi's wife.
He has had a reputation for brutality since the mid-1970s and his name appeared recently as number two on an opposition list of wanted "war criminals", topped by Gaddafi.
Senussi is being blamed for the killings in the eastern city of Benghazi as well as recruiting foreign mercenaries fighting in the service of the regime.
Libyans hold him responsible for the notorious 1996 massacre of about 1,200 inmates at the Abu Salim prison.
Senussi has kept a low profile in recent years, partly because he has been unable to travel abroad since being convicted in absentia in France in 1999 for his role in the 1989 bombing of a UTA passenger plane over Niger which killed 170 people.
At the time, he headed Libya's external security organisation, in which capacity he was said to have recruited Abdel-Basset al-Megrahi, the man convicted of the 1988 Lockerbie bombing. Like Megrahi, Senussi is a member of the powerful, and apparently still loyal, Megarha tribe.

[khad]

oh noes, another libyan welcomes imperialism:

dont these people know what they are saying? what is gadaffi stealling almost all of the oil money and sending the secret police when the alternative is having the capitalists stealing most of the oil money and opening an mcdonalds?

(and that is even disregarding the possibilitys the libyans might not even go for full blown US style capitalism and might go for some scandinavian/dutch natural resources funded social democracy)
The name Warfally. This guy is from the largest tribe in Libya, one which was joined with Gaddafi for much of Libya's history but had a falling out in the early 90s when a number of prominent Warfalla were implicated in a coup and assassination attempt. Since then Gaddafi has been a lot stingier with his oil money.

Will the Warfalla resume their role as dominant movers and shakers in the Libyan state? Hmmmm.....

[El Rojo]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/20113219238494697.html


infomation is sketchy, but it looks like the revolutionaries have defeated a counter attack in Brega. Gadaffi can't go on much longer like this


Opposition fighters said on Wednesday that they had finally pushed Gaddafi's men out of the town on the Mediterranean coast after a day of chaotic clashes.

Claiming victory several hours earlier, rebel leaders in the main eastern town of Benghazi said at least 10 people were dead.


Al jazeera

[El Rojo]

http://www.hrw.org/live-updates

as of 2nd march, this live feed has an account of the confrontation between the rebels and pro-government forces, and mentions the rebels using anti-aircraft guns and artillery batteries

[Luís Henrique]

For some time now, Gaddafy seems to be sending small attacks against rebels' positions in Zawyia, Misrata and some places in the East (Marsa-al Braga, Ras Lanuf, Burayqah).

I was expecting those to be exploratory moves, to discover strenghts and weaknesses within the rebels' strongholds. In which case a much heavier attack should be on the way. But, frankly, I am coming to believe that Gaddafy may be not delivering more lethal attacks because he simply lacks the means to. It is begining to look like a war between two very ill equiped armies.

Obviously, any pro-imperialist agents among the rebels are proposing caution instead of a quick advance against Tripoli. The longer this situation lasts, the more logical international intervention will look like. They still haven't the teeth for it, though, I think.

Luís Henrique

[Ligeia]

1:56am

Nicolas Maduro, Venezuela's foreign minister, calls for the formation of a bloc of "friendly countries" to begin a process of dialogue with Gaddafi's government as well as the opposition. Once again, the South American country has alleged that the US is searching for pretexts to invade Libya to take control of its energy resources.


4:33am

Dima Khatib, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Venezuela, reports that having spoken to members of President Hugo Chavez's camp, she was told that Gaddafi spoke with Chavez on Wednesday, when he agreed "in principle" to accept Venezuela's proposed mediation efforts.
Meanwhile, Nicolas Maduro, the Venezeulan foreign minister, also spoke with Arab League chief Amr Moussa on Wednesday, when Moussa told him that the league would be happy to go along with such a mediation effort.
The Arab League's endorsement of the talks could be announced in Cairo later today.


5:04am

Venezuela aims to make these 'talks about talks' turn into a concrete proposal, resulting in a commission being deputed to go to Libya and mediate between the government and the opposition forces.
Venezeula has also been in touch with several South American countries, including members of the Bolivarian Alliance for the Peoples of Our America (ALBA) alliance, our correspondent reports.


8:53am

Al Jazeera has learned that Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, has offered to mediate a solution to the crisis in Libya, and in the last few hours, Colonel Gaddafi accepted the offer.
Gaddafi spoke to Chavez and agreed in principle to a mediation plan. We've also learned that the Arab League has welcomed the offer.


Aljazeera reports.


Or read here:

vtv (http://www.vtv.gov.ve/noticias-nacionales/56182)
reuters (http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE72200320110303?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FAFRICATopNews+%28Ne ws+%2F+AFRICA+%2F+Top+News%29)
telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8358645/Libya-Hugo-Chavez-peace-plan-under-consideration.html)

10:09am

Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel-Hamid, reporting from the eastern city of Benghazi on how the offer of mediation from Venezuela will be received by the opposition in Libya, says:

The only mediation they will consider is to find an exit strategy for Gaddafi and his family and all his close aides. They said there is no time anymore for dialogue. Mediation, unless it's with an exit strategy, will be quite difficult.

[Sasha]

2:27pm

Luis Moreno-Ocampo, chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, has announced that Muammar Gaddafi and key figures will be investigated for alleged crimes against humanity.

Speaking at a press conference in The Hague, the Netherlands, on Thursday, Moreno-Ocampo said he would investigate claims that peaceful forces had been attacked by forces loyal to Gaddafi.
He added that opposition forces would also be investigated.
Follow our correspondent @AlanFisher who is live tweeting (http://twitter.com/#%21/AlanFisher) the press conference

[Sasha]

three dutch marines are captured in lybia after an botched evac mission:


12:05pm


More on the Dutch marines detained in Libya - Reuters cites a defence ministry spokesman as saying the three marines were detained after being captured by forces loyal to Gaddafi while trying to rescue two Europeans.
The men were captured on Sunday by armed men after they had gone ashore at Sirte with a helicopter from a Dutch naval ship stationed off the coast of Libya to help with evacuations from the North African country, ministry spokesman Otte Beeksma said.
Dutch authorities are in "intensive diplomatic negotiations" with Gaddafi's government to secure the release of the marines, Beeksma said.






11:14am





Al Jazeera's web producer in Libya, Evan Hill (http://twitter.com/#%21/evanchill), reports:

Three Dutch soldiers have been captured by Gaddafi loyalists in a failed attempt to rescue two Dutch citizens from Sirte by helicopter.

[PhoenixAsh]

2:27pm

Luis Moreno-Ocampo, chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, has announced that Muammar Gaddafi and key figures will be investigated for alleged crimes against humanity.

Speaking at a press conference in The Hague, the Netherlands, on Thursday, Moreno-Ocampo said he would investigate claims that peaceful forces had been attacked by forces loyal to Gaddafi.
He added that opposition forces would also be investigated.
Follow our correspondent @AlanFisher who is live tweeting (http://twitter.com/#%21/AlanFisher) the press conference

Its amazing how fast the ICC can move when non-friendly dictators are involved.

[Sasha]

Its amazing how fast the ICC can move when non-friendly dictators are involved.


not to detract for your cynism but that says more something about the UN security council than the ICC. if an case is brought before the ICC dealing with an nation that ratified the ICC it can act even swifter, problem is offcourse that the countrys with the worst human rights violations didnt ratify wich means it needs an deferment decision from the UN security council where there is an big chance it will be veto'd by those other non-ratifiers the US and China.
so yeah the non-friendly dictators bit is true, but its all about having friends in the UN security council with veto power (in the case of the US primarily israel benefits, in the case of China and Russia it was long time Sudan, now mostly themselves related to Chechnya and Tibet)

[Sasha]

three dutch marines are captured in lybia after an botched evac mission:


12:05pm


More on the Dutch marines detained in Libya - Reuters cites a defence ministry spokesman as saying the three marines were detained after being captured by forces loyal to Gaddafi while trying to rescue two Europeans.
The men were captured on Sunday by armed men after they had gone ashore at Sirte with a helicopter from a Dutch naval ship stationed off the coast of Libya to help with evacuations from the North African country, ministry spokesman Otte Beeksma said.
Dutch authorities are in "intensive diplomatic negotiations" with Gaddafi's government to secure the release of the marines, Beeksma said.

11:14am
Al Jazeera's web producer in Libya, Evan Hill (http://twitter.com/#%21/evanchill), reports:
Three Dutch soldiers have been captured by Gaddafi loyalists in a failed attempt to rescue two Dutch citizens from Sirte by helicopter.




funny all the dutch media is having big headlines about "marines held hostage", now as you know i'm no fan whatsoever of the gadaffi regime but seriously, "hostage"? you drop without permission soldiers on an other nations soil and you have the nerve to call them "hostages" when captured?

[Sasha]

12.58pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/03/libya-uprising-gaddafi-live#block-26) The Guardian has received a call from two men who said they are in Tripoli and who painted a disturbing picture of what is happening in the capital. The first said (http://audioboo.fm/boos/292684-caller-from-tripoli-if-anyone-comes-out-to-protest-they-shoot-them-on-the-spot):

They [Gaddafi's forces] have Kalashnikovs they keep going round an make sure no one can demonstrate so they go round the street, if anyone comes out they shoot them on the spot and they collect the bodies.
Listen! (http://audioboo.fm/boos/292684-caller-from-tripoli-if-anyone-comes-out-to-protest-they-shoot-them-on-the-spot.mp3?source=embed) Turn off auto-refresh to listen to full audio The second man said he spoke to a man who is a member of Gaddafi's revolutionary committee who told him they were "controlling Tripoli":

He told me...'my colleagues...they are wearing white bands over their faces and they are going round in their cars and shooting demonstrators out in the streets'. He said that himself.

[Luís Henrique]

Nicolas Maduro, Venezuela's foreign minister, calls for the formation of a bloc of "friendly countries" to begin a process of dialogue with Gaddafi's government as well as the opposition.

This is actually a good idea. Gaddafy is cornered, and, as such, likely to imolate himself among a few thousands of pro- and con- Libyans (and non-Libyans). Offering him a way out could smooth the transition, and deflate imperialist manoeuvers.


Once again, the South American country has alleged that the US is searching for pretexts to invade Libya to take control of its energy resources.

This is nonsense, of course. They don't need to take control of Libya's oil - they already have such control. Unless Maduro wants to tell us that what the US wants is to kick BP and ENI from Libya. Hard to believe that the UK and Italy would tail their line if so, though. Their problem seems political: how to save Saudi Arabia from this wave of revolts.


The only mediation they will consider is to find an exit strategy for Gaddafi and his family and all his close aides. They said there is no time anymore for dialogue. Mediation, unless it's with an exit strategy, will be quite difficult.

Yeah, that should be it. Gaddafy is trying to achieve some time because he is hoping to confuse the opposition with imperialism. The opposition, on the other hand, needs time for its build-up (I have been perusing some military sites yesterday, and the consensus is that the rebels don't even know how to use their weapons). These talks would be an opportunity for the opposition to complete its build-up without increasing the pression for a foreign military intervention.

Luís Henrique

[Sasha]

anyone still applauding the russians for their staunch anti-imperialist opposition against interference in libya?


Russia will lose $4 billion in arms deals due to unrest in Libya, according to Sergei Chemezov, head of the state holding company that controls weapons exports.
Russian news agencies reported Chemezov, chief of Russian Technologies, as saying the events in Libya would impact Rosobornexport, the Russian state arms exporter.
"Rosoboronexport's lost profits due the the situation in Libya amount to $4 billion," the RIA news agency quoted Chemezov as saying. The reports did not mention any specific deals.
The daily Kommersant on Monday cited a source as saying that Russia currently had $2 billion worth of arms contracts with Libya and was close to concluding deals to sell military aircraft and anti-aircraft missiles worth another $1.8 billion.

[Honggweilo]

anyone still applauding the russians for their staunch anti-imperialist opposition against interference in libya?

lol who was claiming russia was anti-imperialist XD?

[Sasha]

Some idiots in an other thread

[rararoadrunner]

OK., a couple of pieces, first appended to a Russia Today report which called Al-Jazeera's reports of Libyan Air Force strikes on Benghazi into question, and another by League for the Fifth International.

First, the history appended to the RT article:

Libyan Arab Republic

The Free Officers Movement, which claimed credit for carrying out the coup, was headed by a twelve-member directorate that designated itself the Revolutionary Command Council (RCC). This body constituted the Libyan government after the coup. In its initial proclamation on September 1,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Libya_under_Gaddafi#cite_note-1) the RCC declared the country to be a free and sovereign state called the Libyan Arab Republic, which would proceed, with the help of God, "in the path of freedom, unity, and social justice, guaranteeing the right of equality to its citizens, and opening before them the doors of honorable work." The rule of the Turks and Italians and the "reactionary" regime just overthrown were characterized as belonging to "dark ages," from which the Libyan people were called to move forward as "free brothers" to a new age of prosperity, equality, and honor.
The RCC advised diplomatic representatives in Libya that the revolutionary changes had not been directed from outside the country, that existing treaties and agreements would remain in effect, and that foreign lives and property would be protected. Diplomatic recognition of the new regime came quickly from countries throughout the world. United States recognition was officially extended on September 6.
In view of the lack of internal resistance, it appeared that the chief danger to the new regime lay in the possibility of a reaction inspired by the absent King Idris or his designated heir, Hasan ar Rida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasan_as-Senussi), who had been taken into custody at the time of the coup along with other senior civil and military officials of the royal government.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/Nasser_Gaddafi_1969.jpg/220px-Nasser_Gaddafi_1969.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nasser_Gaddafi_1969.jpg) http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.17/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nasser_Gaddafi_1969.jpg)
Gaddafi (left) with Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser) in 1969


Within days of the coup, however, Hasan publicly renounced all rights to the throne, stated his support for the new regime, and called on the people to accept it without violence. Idris, in an exchange of messages with the RCC through Egypt's President Nasser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser), dissociated himself from reported attempts to secure British intervention and disclaimed any intention of coming back to Libya. In return, he was assured by the RCC of the safety of his family still in the country. At his own request and with Nasser's approval, Idris took up residence once again in Egypt, where he had spent his first exile and where he remained until his death in 1983.
On September 7, 1969, the RCC announced that it had appointed a cabinet to conduct the government of the new republic. An American-educated technician, Mahmud Sulayman al-Maghribi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_Sulayman_al-Maghribi), who had been imprisoned since 1967 for his political activities, was designated prime minister. He presided over the eight-member Council of Ministers, of whom six, like Maghrabi, were civilians and two--Adam Said Hawwaz and Musa Ahmad--were military officers. Neither of the officers was a member of the RCC. The Council of Ministers was instructed to "implement the state's general policy as drawn up by the RCC," leaving no doubt where ultimate authority rested. The next day the RCC decided to promote Captain Muammar al Gaddafi to colonel and to appoint him commander in chief of the Libyan Armed Forces. Although RCC spokesmen declined until January 1970 to reveal any other names of RCC members, it was apparent from that date onward that the head of the RCC and new de facto head of state was the ascetic, deeply religious, twenty-seven-year-old Colonel Gaddafi.
Analysts were quick to point out the striking similarities between the Libyan military coup of 1969 and that in Egypt under Nasser in 1952, and it became clear that the Egyptian experience and the charismatic figure of Nasser had formed the model for the Free Officers Movement. As the RCC in the last months of 1969 moved vigorously to institute domestic reforms, it proclaimed neutrality in the confrontation between the superpowers and opposition to all forms of colonialism and "imperialism." It also made clear Libya's dedication to Arab unity and to the support of the Palestinian cause against Israel. The RCC reaffirmed the country's identity as part of the "Arab nation" and its state religion as Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam). It abolished parliamentary institutions, all legislative functions being assumed by the RCC, and continued the prohibition against political parties, in effect since 1952. The new regime categorically rejected communism—in large part because it was atheistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism)--and officially espoused an Arab interpretation of socialism that integrated Islamic principles with social, economic, and political reform. Libya had shifted, virtually overnight, from the camp of conservative Arab traditionalist states to that of the radical nationalist states.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Alfateh_2010.jpg/220px-Alfateh_2010.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alfateh_2010.jpg) http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.17/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alfateh_2010.jpg)
(Alfateh , 1 September 1969) Festivity Alfateh in Al Bayda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Bayda%27_%28Libya%2529) City of Libya in 01-09-2010.


Following the formation of the Libyan Arab Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Arab_Republic), Gaddafi and his associates insisted that their government would not rest on individual leadership, but rather on collegial decision making. However, Gaddafi's ascetic but colorful personality, striking appearance, energy, and intense ideological style soon created an impression of Gaddafi as dictator and the balance of the RCC as little more than his rubber stamp. This impression was inaccurate and although some members were more pragmatic, less demonstrative, or less ascetic than Gaddafi, the RCC showed a high degree of uniformity in political and economic outlook and in dedication. Fellow RCC members were loyal to Gaddafi as group leader, observers believed, not because of bureaucratic subservience to his dictatorial power, but because they were in basic agreement with him and with the revolutionary Arab nationalist ideals that he articulated.
Although the RCC's principle of conducting executive operations through a predominantly civilian cabinet of technicianadministrators remained strong, circumstances and pressures brought about modifications. The first major cabinet change occurred soon after the first challenge to the regime. In December 1969, Adam Said Hawwaz, the minister of defense, and Musa Ahmad, the minister of interior, were arrested and accused of planning a coup. In the new cabinet formed after the crisis, Gaddafi, retaining his post as chairman of the RCC, also became prime minister and defense minister. Major Abdel Salam Jallud, generally regarded as second only to Gaddafi in the RCC, became deputy prime minister and minister of interior. This cabinet totaled thirteen members, of whom five were RCC officers. The regime was challenged a second time in July 1970 when Abdullah Abid Sanusi, a distant cousin of former King Idris, and members of the Sayf an Nasr clan of Fezzan were accused of plotting to seize power for themselves. After the plot was foiled, a substantial cabinet change occurred, RCC officers for the first time forming a majority among new ministers.
From the start, RCC spokesmen had indicated a serious intent to bring the "defunct regime" to account. In 1971 and 1972 more than 200 former government officials—including 7 prime ministers and numerous cabinet ministers—as well as former King Idris and members of the royal family, were brought to trial on charges of treason and corruption in the Libyan People's Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_People%27s_Court). Many, who like Idris lived in exile, were tried in absentia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_absentia). Although a large percentage of those charged were acquitted, sentences of up to fifteen years in prison and heavy fines were imposed on others. Five death sentences, all but one of them in absentia, were pronounced, among them, one against Idris. Fatima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Fatima), the former queen, and Hasan ar Rida were sentenced to five and three years in prison, respectively.
Meanwhile, Gaddafi and the RCC had disbanded the Sanusi order and officially downgraded its historical role in achieving Libya's independence. They attacked regional and tribal differences as obstructions in the path of social advancement and Arab unity, dismissing traditional leaders and drawing administrative boundaries across tribal groupings. A broad-based political party, the Arab Socialist Union (ASU), was created in 1971 and modeled after Egypt's Arab Socialist Union. Its intent was to raise the political consciousness of Libyans and to aid the RCC in formulating public policy through debate in open forums. All other political parties were proscribed. Trade unions were incorporated into the ASU and strikes forbidden. The press, already subject to censorship, was officially conscripted in 1972 as an agent of the revolution. Italians and what remained of the Jewish community were expelled from the country and their property confiscated in October 1970.
After the September coup, United States forces proceeded deliberately with the planned withdrawal from Wheelus Air Base (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelus_Air_Base) under the agreement made with the previous regime. The last of the American contingent turned the facility over to the Libyans on June 11, 1970, a date thereafter celebrated in Libya as a national holiday. As relations with the United States steadily deteriorated, Gaddafi forged close links with the Soviet Union and other East European countries, all the while maintaining Libya's stance as a nonaligned country and opposing the spread of communism in the Arab world. Libya's army—sharply increased from the 6,000-man prerevolutionary force that had been trained and equipped by the British—was armed with Soviet-built armor and missiles.
As months passed, Gaddafi, caught up in his apocalyptic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypticism) visions of revolutionary pan-Arabism and Islam locked in mortal struggle with what he termed the encircling, demonic forces of reaction, imperialism, and Zionism, increasingly devoted attention to international rather than internal affairs. As a result, routine administrative tasks fell to Major Jallud, who in 1972 became prime minister in place of Gaddafi. Two years later Jallud assumed Gaddafi's remaining administrative and protocol duties to allow Gaddafi to devote his time to revolutionary theorizing. Gaddafi remained commander in chief of the armed forces and effective head of state. The foreign press speculated about an eclipse of his authority and personality within the RCC, but Gaddafi soon dispelled such theories by his measures to restructure Libyan society.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Libya_under_Gaddafi&action=edit&section=4)] Formation of people's committees

The remaking of Libyan society that Gaddafi envisioned and to which he devoted his energies after the early 1970s formally began in 1973 with a so-called cultural or popular revolution. The revolution was designed to combat bureaucratic inefficiency, lack of public interest and participation in the subnational governmental system, and problems of national political coordination. In an attempt to instill revolutionary fervor into his compatriots and to involve large numbers of them in political affairs, Gaddafi urged them to challenge traditional authority and to take over and run government organs themselves. The instrument for doing this was the "people's committee." Within a few months, such committees were found all across Libya. They were functionally and geographically based and eventually became responsible for local and regional administration.
People's committees were established in such widely divergent organizations as universities, private business firms, government bureaucracies, and the broadcast media. Geographically based committees were formed at the governorate, municipal, and zone (lowest) levels. Seats on the people's committees at the zone level were filled by direct popular election; members so elected could then be selected for service at higher levels. By mid-1973 estimates of the number of people's committees ranged above 2,000.
In the scope of their administrative and regulatory tasks and the method of their members' selection, the people's committees embodied the concept of direct democracy that Gaddafi propounded in the first volume of The Green Book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Green_Book), which appeared in 1976. The same concept lay behind proposals to create a new political structure composed of "people's congresses." The centerpiece of the new system was the General People's Congress (GPC), a national representative body intended to replace the RCC.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Libya_under_Gaddafi&action=edit&section=5)] The Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya

On March 2, 1977 the GPC, at Gaddafi's behest, adopted the "Declaration of the Establishment of the People's Authority"[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Libya_under_Gaddafi#cite_note-2) and proclaimed the Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya. The term jamahiriya is difficult to translate, but American scholar Lisa Anderson has suggested "peopledom" or "state of the masses" as a reasonable approximation of Gaddafi's concept that the people should govern themselves free of any constraints, especially those of the modern bureaucratic state. The GPC also adopted resolutions designating Gaddafi as its general secretary and creating the General Secretariat of the GPC, comprising the remaining members of the defunct RCC. It also appointed the General People's Committee, which replaced the Council of Ministers, its members now called secretaries rather than ministers.
All legislative and executive authority was vested in the GPC. This body, however, delegated most of its important authority to its general secretary and General Secretariat and to the General People's Committee. Gaddafi, as general secretary of the GPC, remained the primary decision maker, just as he had been when chairman of the RCC. In turn, all adults had the right and duty to participate in the deliberation of their local Basic People's Congress (BPC), whose decisions were passed up to the GPC for consideration and implementation as national policy. The BPCs were in theory the repository of ultimate political authority and decision making, being the embodiment of what Gaddafi termed direct "people's power." The 1977 declaration and its accompanying resolutions amounted to a fundamental revision of the 1969 constitutional proclamation, especially with respect to the structure and organization of the government at both national and subnational levels.
Continuing to revamp Libya's political and administrative structure, Gaddafi introduced yet another element into the body politic. Beginning in 1977, "revolutionary committees" were organized and assigned the task of "absolute revolutionary supervision of people's power"; that is, they were to guide the people's committees, raise the general level of political consciousness and devotion to revolutionary ideals, and guard against deviation and opposition in the BPCs. Filled with politically astute zealots, the ubiquitous revolutionary committees in 1979 assumed control of BPC elections. Although they were not official government organs, the revolutionary committees became another mainstay of the domestic political scene. As with the people's committees and other administrative innovations since the revolution, the revolutionary committees fit the pattern of imposing a new element on the existing subnational system of government rather than eliminating or consolidating already existing structures. By the late 1970s, the result was an unnecessarily complex system of overlapping jurisdictions in which cooperation and coordination among different elements were compromised by ill-defined grants of authority and responsibility.
The changes in Libyan leadership since 1976 culminated in March 1979, when the GPC declared that the "vesting of power in the masses" and the "separation of the state from the revolution" were complete. Gaddafi relinquished his duties as general secretary of the GPC, being known thereafter as "the leader" or "Leader of the Revolution." He remained supreme commander of the armed forces. His replacement was Abdallah Ubaydi, who in effect had been prime minister since 1979. The RCC was formally dissolved and the government was again reorganized into people's committees. A new General People's Committee (cabinet) was selected, each of its "secretaries" becoming head of a specialized people's committee; the exceptions were the "secretariats" of petroleum, foreign affairs, and heavy industry, where there were no people's committees. A proposal was also made to establish a "people's army" by substituting a national militia, being formed in the late 1970s, for the national army. Although the idea surfaced again in early 1982, it did not appear to be close to implementation.
Remaking of the economy was parallel with the attempt to remold political and social institutions. Until the late 1970s, Libya's economy was mixed, with a large role for private enterprise except in the fields of oil production and distribution, banking, and insurance. But according to volume two of Gaddafi's Green Book, which appeared in 1978, private retail trade, rent, and wages were forms of "exploitation" that should be abolished. Instead, workers' self-management committees and profit participation partnerships were to function in public and private enterprises. A property law was passed that forbade ownership of more than one private dwelling, and Libyan workers took control of a large number of companies, turning them into state-run enterprises. Retail and wholesale trading operations were replaced by state-owned "people's supermarkets", where Libyans in theory could purchase whatever they needed at low prices. By 1981 the state had also restricted access to individual bank accounts to draw upon privately held funds for government projects.
While measures such as these undoubtedly benefited poorer Libyans, they created resentment and opposition among the newly dispossessed. The latter joined those already alienated, some of whom had begun to leave the country. By 1982 perhaps 50,000 to 100,000 Libyans had gone abroad; because many of the emigrants were among the enterprising and better educated Libyans, they represented a significant loss of managerial and technical expertise.
Some of the exiles formed active opposition groups. Although the groups were generally ineffective, Gaddafi nevertheless in early 1979 warned opposition leaders to return home immediately or face "liquidation." A wave of assassinations of prominent Libyan exiles, mostly in Western Europe, followed. Few opponents responded to the 1979 call to "repentance" or to a similar one issued in October 1982 in which Gaddafi once again threatened liquidation of the recalcitrant, the GPC having already declared their personal property forfeit.
Internal opposition came from elements of the middle class who opposed Gaddafi's economic reforms and from students and intellectuals who criticized his ideology. He also incurred the anger of the Islamic community for his unorthodox interpretations of the doctrine and traditions of Islam, his challenge to the authority of the religious establishment, and his contention that the ideas in The Green Book were compatible with and based upon Islam. Endowed Islamic properties (habus) were nationalized as part of Gaddafi's economic reforms, and he urged "the masses" to take over mosques.
The most serious challenges came from the armed forces, especially the officers' corps, and from the RCC. Perhaps the most important one occurred in 1975 when Minister of Planning and RCC member Major Umar Mihayshi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_Mihayshi) and about thirty army officers attempted a coup after disagreements over political economic policies. The failure of the coup led to the flight of Mihayshi and part of the country's technocratic elite. In a move that signaled a new intolerance of dissent, the regime executed twenty-two of the accused army officers in 1977, the first such punishment in more than twenty years. Further executions of dissident army officers were reported in 1979, and in August 1980 several hundred people were allegedly killed in the wake of an unsuccessful army revolt centered in Tobruk.

Second, the League for the Fifth International piece:
http://www.fifthinternational.org/sites/all/themes/framework/logo.png
Published on League for the Fifth International (http://www.fifthinternational.org (http://www.fifthinternational.org/))
Home (http://www.fifthinternational.org/) > Analysis by Country (http://www.fifthinternational.org/category/1) > Americas (http://www.fifthinternational.org/category/1/56) > Venezuela (http://www.fifthinternational.org/category/1/56/90) > Hugo Chávez backs his friend Muammar Gadaffi
Hugo Chávez backs his friend Muammar Gadaffi

By Simon
Created 03/03/2011 - 19:12
Hugo Chávez has disgraced himself by refusing to condemn Gadaffi's murderous regime in Libya
Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez - who poses as a revolutionary socialist – has irredeemably ruined his reputation in the eyes of working class and progressive forces worldwide. Gadaffi has refused to condemn Libyan dictator Muammar Gadaffi for his massacres of unarmed protesters, claiming to have “no information” on events that to the rest of the world is as plain as day.
Chávez posted a message on Twitter last week saying "Long live Libya and its independence! Gaddafii faces a civil war!" He has also stated
“A campaign of lies is being spun together regarding Libya," adding, "I'm not going to condemn him. I'd be a coward to condemn someone who has been my friend." Let ye be judged by your friends.
As the saying goes tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are. No Comandante, you are a political coward for not condemning him for his crimes and not supporting the revolutionary people.
Indeed Chávez has phoned “his friend” to offer to create a commission of “friendly countries” to mediate between him and the revolutionary forces. An offer they have quite rightly refused with contempt. Gadaffi, his dreadful sons and his entourage of butchers deserves not mediation - nor even a bolt hole in Caracas if he flees - but summary justice from the people he has exploited and oppressed.
Chávez by this act has further exposed his politics as having more in common with the fake “anti-imperialists” of the stripe of the Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmedinejad or Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe - who have shamelessly flattered one another in recent years. But to paint up Gadaffi as any sort of anti-imperialist when he has been in bed with Britain and France over the last decade - doing their every bidding is frankly ridiculous.
The mere fact that these countries are, or were for a time, targets of imperialist threats does not make them into regimes that must be defended against the revolutionary uprisings of their own people. Quite the opposite. A regime which exploits and oppresses its own people will not in the long run even be able to stand up against imperialism. Indeed by such brutal repression it sows illusions in imperialism amongst its own people and in the world generally.
Revolutionaries must at one and the same time support the Libyan revolutionaries and do all they can materially and morally to assist their overthrow of the tyrant and at the same time oppose any sort of attack on or invasion of Libya. A “flight ban” is only a first step to an invasion and the horrific state of Iraq and Afghanistan are proof positive of what a “humanitarian” or “democracy-building” invasion by the USA or Britain and other EU states will bring.
In fact the Obama Administration seems quite weary of an intervention. US Defence Secretary Robert Gates stated to Congress: "Let's just call a spade a spade-a no-fly zone begins with an attack on Libya, to destroy the air defences. That's the way you do a no-fly zone... It also requires more air planes than you would find on a single aircraft carrier." Secretary of State Hillary Clinton added: "We are a long way from determining a no-fly zone is needed for Libya."
However Republicans like John McCain are calling for intervention. Clearly they want to get their grubby paws on even more of Libya’s oil - the largest reserves in Africa. Correctly the anti-Gadaffi forces have stated that there must be no invasion of Libya: they have seen what this invasion did for Iraq and Afghanistan.
Chávez moving to the right
Hugo Chávez disgraceful stance shows how totally unsuited he is to assume the mantel of leader of a new world socialist working class movement. Over a year ago he issued a call for the formation of a Fifth International and then did nothing about calling the conference he has talked of. Certainly now he has squandered any capitals he may have had. Indeed there are many signs that he has turned sharply rightwards in his own country too. 21st century socialism must have nothing to do with the barbaric regimes of Colonel Gadaffi and his ‘revolutionary committees which for too long have repressed the people of Libya.
Perhaps then it is no accident that whilst Chávez has signed a pact with politicians from the bourgeois opposition and freed those arrested in the coups against him he has just condemned militant union leader Rubén González to seven and a half years in prison for participating in a two week strike over unpaid wages in July 2009. González has now been in jail already for more than a year and a half.
Chávez has also recently denounced strikes in public sector industries accusing them of “getting at me directly” and claiming that “stopping a state enterprise, is messing with the Head of State. He has also ordered the "intelligence agencies" to act against union leaders who promote strikes.
The working class worldwide should re-aafirm the lesson included in the lyrics of the Internationale “no saviours from on high deliver.” No presidents and military men, however left their populist and anti-imperialist rhetoric, will free the working class from political oppression or capitalist exploitation. As Marx said "The emancipation of the workers must be the task of the working class itself.”



News (http://www.fifthinternational.org/content/type/news)
Venezuela (http://www.fifthinternational.org/content/analysis-country/americas/venezuela)


Source URL: http://www.fifthinternational.org/content/hugo-chavez-backs-his-friend-muammar-gadaffi

Do you think that the League's critique is fair, or undialectical?

[Luís Henrique]

No news of attacks on Zawyia or Misrata. Burayqah seems firmly under rebel control. Uqayla now fell to the opposition. Road open to Ras Lanuf, where Gaddafy forces have concentrated after being being expelled from Burayqah.

My impression is that loyalists lack a real will to fight. The airstrikes seem to purposely miss their targets, a 300 strong land force is driven back 80 miles suffering only half a dozen casualties in the process.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Do you think that the League's critique is fair, or undialectical?

It is obvious by now that Chávez is unable to see the difference between political and personal levels. Supporting Gaddafy at this point because they "were friends" is unpardonable naïveté at the very least. And yes, this detracts from his abilities to lead either the "Fifth International" or the Venezolan State (the former, however, is pretty much irrelevant, as it is obvious that he never intended to actually create and lead such thing).

But while he stupidly sides with Gaddafy, his own regime shouldn't be confused with his buddy's. And his support for Gaddafy is independent from what is denounced as his move to the right: there are plenty of governments supporting, at least vocally, the Libyan revolution, that have indeed much more agressive policies towards internal opposition than Chávez.

Luís Henrique

[khad]

No news of attacks on Zawyia or Misrata. Burayqah seems firmly under rebel control. Uqayla now fell to the opposition. Road open to Ras Lanuf, where Gaddafy forces have concentrated after being being expelled from Burayqah.

My impression is that loyalists lack a real will to fight. The airstrikes seem to purposely miss their targets, a 300 strong land force is driven back 80 miles suffering only half a dozen casualties in the process.

Luís Henrique
Zawyia's oil facilities remain under government control. There was a tour for journalists just this morning.

Also, about Brega:

http://www.libyafeb17.com/2011/03/breaking-call-of-distress-from-brega-tonight/


Almanara Media Mail:
O Almanara Media! O free men of Libya! O honourable daughters of Libya! An URGENT URGENT distress call from the city of Brega. In the city of Hrawah which is situated between Raas Lanuf and Sirt, 70 cars full of mercenaries have just arrived to support the battalion which is present there. They plan to attack the city of Brega, occupy it and control its airport. I appeal to God! Please deliver my call of distress! Please! The people of Brega are distressed and the revolutionary youth plan to resist this battalion. By God I fear there may be a massacre tonight, help us help us help us!

The people of Brega


Don't get too excited over what was just a probing attack. This will be a long fight.

[Luís Henrique]

Zawyia's oil facilities remain under government control. There was a tour for journalists just this morning.

Also, about Brega:

http://www.libyafeb17.com/2011/03/breaking-call-of-distress-from-brega-tonight/

Don't get too excited over what was just a probing attack. This will be a long fight.

Evidently, we shall see. My impression up to now remains the same: a mass of disorganised, inexperienced, lightly armed rebels facing an unwilling army.

Maybe I am wrong; if so, it's simply that: a wrong appreciation of the combative dispositions of two foreign armies. Not a mistaken wish to fully support a political line.

Luís Henrique

[Sasha]

7:12am

Graphic video has emerged of what appears to be a group of soliders (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=115911735150119), massacred in Libya. The video was posted to Facebook on Thursday.
It cannot be independently verified but appears to show the bodies of at least 21 men in military clothing, bound and blindfolded. One seems to still be alive.
The Facebook page says the video was first run on state TV, which identified the dead as soliders, killed by anti-government fighters.
But the Facebook posting says the men were actually killed by pro-government forces, for refusing to fight.

[Sasha]

8vbBJOYxpxc

[Sasha]

dutch news is reporting the british customs have intercepted an boat on its way to the libyan regime with 117 milion euros cash, seems they are getting desperate under the sanctions.

also, significant fighting in Ras Lanuf:


1.10pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/04/libya-uprising-gaddafi-live#block-32) The Guardian's Martin Chulov, about 50 miles from Ras Lanuf, says (http://audioboo.fm/boos/293704-martinchulov-on-fighting-in-ras-lanuf-it-appears-to-be-a-signficant-battle) the fighting for control of the oil town is shaping to be "a significant battle".
Listen! (http://audioboo.fm/boos/293704-martinchulov-on-fighting-in-ras-lanuf-it-appears-to-be-a-signficant-battle.mp3?source=embed) Turn off auto updates to listen in full Ras Lanuf and Brega are the two oil towns between Sirte, which is firmly held by Gaddafi and between Benghazi, which is in rebel hands. Both those towns [Ras Lanuf and Brega] have strategic importance, Martin says.

The rebels were successful in ousting a Gaddafi rearguard in Brega which lasted around 24 hours. Those forces that withdrew from that town yesterday morning have regrouped in Ras Lanuf and fighting has resumed within the last hour or so between the rebels and Gaddafi loyalists in Ras Lanuf.
It appears to be quite intensive. We are seeing a lot of trucks head down the highway filled with weapons and men on their way to the frontline, a lot of ambulances heading there as well. It's a bit far away to get an assessment for ourselves but, just from the sense of people on the move, it does appear to be a significant battle.




and regardless of the brutal repression still more than a thousand people take to the streets in tripoli:



12.59pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/04/libya-uprising-gaddafi-live#block-31) Libya 17 February Voices reports (http://www.libyafeb17.com/2011/03/breaking-clashes-in-ras-lanuf-west-of-ajdabiya/): "protests gaining momentum in Tajoura though there is a heavy presence of tanks. There are also other protests in across the city namely in Mezran."
12.50pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/04/libya-uprising-gaddafi-live#block-30) Peter Beaumont in Tripoli reports that "dozens and dozens" of police cars flooded the capital after Friday prayers in an attempt to head off hundreds of demonstrators. Journalists were forced away from the scene, he says, and at least one man who spoke to journalists was seen being taken away by police.
12.43pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/04/libya-uprising-gaddafi-live#block-29)


• More than 1,000 anti-Gaddafi protesters have taken to the streets of the Tajura suburb in Tripoli, according to reports. Earlier the Guardian's Peter Beaumont reported (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/04/libya-uprising-gaddafi-live#block-17) that many people were simply too afraid to take part in the protests, which had been called for after Friday prayers.
"People are absolutely terrified," Peter said. "I met a man two evenings ago who's had two of his brothers picked up in the night, who's [now] moving from house to avoid being arrested. I can't remember the last time I saw someone who's so visibly scared."

[Sasha]

15:20 @ShababLibya BREAKING: A split reported in the Ras lanuf pro gaddafi brigade, last town before Sirte, when confirmed is major development

[Sasha]

statement by AbdulRahman Shalgam, former ally of gadaffi since they where radical students together in the 50's:

Gaddafi, you are over. Go away. There is no more room for you here. Libyans are not in a revolution. They are in a liberation war. Libyans in the Gaddafi battalions are constantly joining the protesters every time they meet with them. I confirm that 80% of those with Gaddafi now are mercenaries. There won’t be a Rwanda massacre. I call on all Libyans to announce their alliegance to Mustafa AbdulJalil. I ask the people who are fighting for Gaddafi: who are you fighting for? Gaddafi’s family? Gaddafi who calls you rats and sandals? Why are you still with Gaddafi?
Saif was right in saying that we are not like Egypt and Tunisia. We are not protesting and demonstrating and sitting-in. We are engaged in a total war of liberation. You cannot give up now. If you do, you will most certainly be treated as rats and shoes for the rest of your lives.
Is it true that you are being bought with 500 Libyan Dinars? I urge the world to watch the Libyan State TV channel. What they are broadcasting is embarrassing. They claim that they are showing the reality of the situation, but it only embarrassing.
I am now with the Interim Council of Libya. I have been contacted by ambassadors and international ministers. We want legitimacy for the interim council, for them to be able to deal and handle all aspects of Libya. We want our embassies to only be dealing with the interim council.
We have passed the stage of negotiations, and I say that he needs to step down. And I call out to anyone who is still raising arms against Libyans, I tell you to drop them down, and if you do you will be guaranteed a trial in Libya.
We are now preparing armies in Benghazi, Az Zawiya and Nalut. When I say that only mercenaries are with Gaddafi now I know what I mean. And I know the countries that are part of this, and I tell them that we will chase them and hold them to account in the international courts.
I repeat, I tell Mu’ammar: I do not want to believe that you are contacting nations that are enemies to us, and hearing that you are seeking their support in how to oppress and destroy the protests. This is not you, so please don’t do this.

[khad]

17:08 BREAKING from Reuters: Revolutionaries are now in control of Ras Lanuf airport.

17:25 Reuters reports at least 4 dead in the battle of Ras Lanuf so far

17:42 Reuters: A Libyan revolution spokesman says Gaddafi forces are heavily shelling Zawiyah and there are many casualties.

17:55 The Guardian: An improvised force of revolutionaries has been pushed back to the central square in Zawiyah, where about 2,000 anti-Gaddfi protesters are getting ready to make a “last stand”, a rebel spokesman has told Reuters. Youssef Shagan said: “We are on the square, all of our forces are here. The square is safe but they [government forces] are attacking from east and west. We will fight until the end. They have now started trying to go into the city to try to retake it.”

[Luís Henrique]

Apparently Ras Lanuf has fallen to the rebels. Ras Lanuf is home to Libya's biggest refinery, and other oil facilities.

It also seems Gaddafy is going to retake Zawiya; the rebel's position there seem hopeless.

Luís Henrique

[ckaihatsu]

REVOLUTION: Libya: "US UK, French forces land in Libya"


The libyans who have allowed the Western imperialists this pretext to
land their troops inside the country (assuming these are the facts of
the matter) are 'de facto' betraying the libyan/pan-arab social
Revolution, however consciously or otherwise. At some point, those who
desire true democratic freedom, egalitarianism and autonomy in Libya
-- and beyond -- will be forced to declare themselves also against
those who are welcoming-in imperialist interference in their country
today.

I wonder how the bourgeois-nationalist "socialist" regimes, from Cuba
to Venezuela and beyond, will parse THAT looming imminent fact of the
situation...

And don't think there aren't all sorts of "progressives" in the West
who aren't capable of making such rotten deals with imperialism too,
against whatever future revolution they will claim to be serving...



Long Live the World Socialist Revolution.
All Power to the Workers' and Farmers' Councils and Communes.

-- grok.









----- Forwarded message from "Tony B." <[email protected]> -----

From: "Tony B." <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 16:07:48 -0500
Subject: "US UK, French forces land in Libya"
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Message-ID: <[email protected]>


>
> http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=78009
>
>
> Pakistan Observer
> March 4, 2001
> US UK, French forces land in Libya
> Akhtar Jamal
>
> Islamabad—The United States, Britain and France have sent several
> hundred “defence advisors†to train and support the anti-Gadhafi
> forces in oil-rich Eastern Libya where “rebels armed groups†have
> apparently taken over.
>
> According to an exclusive report confirmed by a Libyan diplomat in the
> region “the three Western states have landed their “special forces
> troops in Cyrinacia and are now setting up their bases and training
> centres†to reinforce the rebel forces who are resisting pro-Qaddafi
> forces in several adjoining areas.
>
> A Libyan official who requested not to be identified said that the U.S.
> and British military gurus were sent on February 23 and 24 night through
> American and French warships and small naval boats off Libyan ports of
> Benghazi and Tobruk.
>
> The Western forces are reportedly preparing to set-up training bases for
> local militias set-up by the rebel forces for an effective control of
> the oil-rich region and counter any push by pro- Qaddafi forces from
> Tripoli.
>
> Other reports claim that efforts to “neutralize†the Libyan Air
> Force were also underway to limit Qaddafi’s rule in Tripoli if not
> fully uprooted from the country.
>
> Meanwhile, three Indian Navy warships, are also being dispatched to be
> deployed in the rebel-held areas of Libya.
>
> According to reports the Indian Navy has already sent two warships plus
> one its largest amphibious vessel INS Jalashwa. According to defence
> experts “Jalshwa†is the largest ship of Indian Navy which was
> delivered by the U.S. four years ago. Jalashwa, formaly the USS Trenton,
> has the capability to embark, transport & land various elements of an
> amphibious force & its equipped with mechanised landing craft, Sea King
> helicopters & armed with raders, ship to air missiles & rapid firing
> guns.
>
> Experts say that Indian ship Jalashwa has a Landing Platform Dock with a
> capability 1000 fully armed troops. The warship is also used for
> maritime surveillance, special operations, search & rescue and to
> undertake other tasks.
>
>
> Interfax
> March 3, 2011
> Brief military operation in Libya may not be against intl law - Russian
> envoy to NATO
>
> MOSCOW. March 3 (Interfax) - A brief military operation in Libya could
> be in compliance with international law, Russian envoy to NATO Dmitry
> Rogozin said.
> "If we talk about a special brief operation, there should be solid
> reasons for this," Rogozin said in an interview published in the
> Thursday issue of Izvestia.
> Such reasons could be the protection of one's own citizens, their lives
> and dignity, the salvation of hostages, or the prevention of an act of
> sabotage against an embassy, he said.
> "In these cases, international law does not rule out the use of special
> troops. But such an operation should be limited in space and time. If
> special forces start siding with one of the forces confronting each
> other in a civilian conflict, this would be gross interference in a
> foreign state's internal affairs," he said.
> Rogozin also doubted that the developments in Libya could replay the
> Iraq scenario.
> "What we saw in Iraq was an outright aggression against a foreign state
> on a farfetched pretext. Here we are talking about an attempt to climb
> the opposition's back to mess into the affairs of a state, which, by the
> way, is one of the largest energy exporters. Obviously would be better
> to refrain from saber-rattling. The sanctions that have been adopted by
> the [United Nations] Security Council are quite enough," he said.
> "If the Americans understand that they might be dragged into a big war
> like the one in Iraq or Afghanistan, they will cross themselves and take
> to their heels. Perhaps now they believe a blitzkrieg won't damage their
> image. But this will backfire on them sooner or later," Rogozin said.
>
>



----- End forwarded message -----

--
The Financiers & Banksters have looted untold trillions of our future earnings.
Their bureaucratic police & military goons are here to make us all pay for it.
Forever.
Well FORGET THAT. Let's get it *ALL* back from them -- and more.

**Socialist revolution NOW!!**

Build the North America-wide General Strike.
TODO el poder a los consejos y las comunas.
TOUT le pouvoir aux conseils et communes.
ALL power to the councils and communes.

And beware the 'bait & switch' fraud: "Social Justice" is NOT *Socialism*...

[Sasha]

that ^ made no sense whatsover again... :confused:

anyway:




Timestamp:
1:40pm


The inter-tribal fighting in Sirte was sparked by one tribe refusing to support Gaddafi's fighters in Ras Lanuf yesterday, Al Jazeera Arabic reports. This has reportedly opened a political divide overnight in the city, which is home to 135,000 people - and which houses several government ministries.


Timestamp:
1:33pm


Pro- and anti-Gaddafi tribes have clashed in Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte - formerly reported as a stronghold of the de facto Libyan leader. More details to follow.

[Sasha]

17:21 Caller to Al Jazeera English says there are currently still heavy clashes in Az-Zawiya, they use heavy weapons and he seems to say some of Gaddafi’s forces are dressed in plain clothes, he says it is not always clear who is who and on which side they are. Civilians are being targeted he says
17:08 Sky News correspondent Alex Crawford, at Zawiya’s hospital, says that within the last 10 or 15 minutes government tanks loaded with soldiers have been rolling in and heading towards Martyrs Square in the centre of the city. She says there was a heavy artillery bombardment lasting about 10 minutes. Since then, the sound of gunfire has died down. Casualties have started arriving at the hospital – many with serious injuries, including a young boy of about 10 whose body peppered with bullets, she adds. There are also reports that government forces have been taking away bodies on the streets to minimise the number of known casualties. Clearly a battle is going on for Zawiya, she concludes. (Taken from BCC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698))
17:07 Al Jazeera English reports that “dozens” have reportedly been killed in the latest clashes in Az-Zawiya.
16:40 @iyad_elbaghdadi tweeted this amazing picture of a Libyan freedom fighter in Az Zawiya. Check out the weapons!http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg619/scaled.php?tn=0&server=619&filename=fjkqr.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640
16:23 Al Jazeera Eyewitness has just said that 35 tanks were surrounding Az Zawiya from the coastal road with cars loaded with 14.5mm anti-aircraft guns. The people of Zawiya were able to push them away earlier today.
Az Zawiya is currently being shelled indiscriminately by tanks from all locations
This morning a full scale attack was made on Zawiya. From 7am till 10am. ALL forms of artillery was used. It is being surrounded right now from every direction.

[Luís Henrique]

As Sidr seems to have fallen without a fight, since there are reports of struggle in Bin Jawad, further to the West. As Sidr is the main oil exporting facility in Libya, weird that Gaddafy's loyalists would allow it to fall without strong resistance.

If Sirte falls Gaddafy's situation will probably deteriorate quickly; its symbolic value is evident.

The fight in Zawiya is quickly becoming a historic fact. The brutality of attacks, the real or legendary atrocities, the obstinate and hopeless defence, Gaddfy's inability to attain a quick victory, all of this are sure ingredients of a historic tragedy.

Luís Henrique

[rararoadrunner]

Comrades:

Here's what I've gotten back from Apoforo's English-language forum:


Honestly, I really do not give a crap about what they say, they will never be able to to lead a revolutionary movement but critic anyone who thinks they can´t fit in their "ideal" model. ("They" being League for the Fifth International).

I've also posted the response I've gotten here to Apoforo's English-language forum.

Back to you! Hasta pronto, y a la victoria, siempre, MKO.

[Sasha]

heavy fighting going on, libyan state TV claim total victory "over al-qaida" while independent journalist report that its actually the rebels who are having the momentum.
large rebel group underway to the khadaffi stronghold of sirth came under airial attack but still press on.
yesterday and today again several helicopters and bombers shot down by the rebels, the two jets downed today where reportetly flown by syrians.
this morning very heavy gunfire in tripoli, regime claims it was "celebratory fire" for their "victory" but AJ reports:

1:32pm

Al Jazeera's Anita McNaught, reporting from Tripoli said that at the moment there is victory celebration going on, "but before dawn it was something different".
"One possible scenario is that internally in Tripoli there was a big crackdown and they have covered the story of that by talking about this celebratory shooting. This is the collective hunch of the journalists here."
Do you know what happened this morning?

[Sasha]

next to the 3 marines held by gadaffi the rebels now caught an british SAS unit near benghazi:
"They (the rebel army) did capture some British special forces. They could not ascertain if they were friends or foes. For our safety we are holding them and we expect this situation to be resolved soon," said the source in rebel-held Benghazi. "They are safe and in good hands. We do not know why they (British government) did not get in touch first or (detail) the purpose of their mission."

[PhoenixAsh]

3:37pm

Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel's prime minister, says there "must be the same determined international action against the tyrannical and brutal regime in Iran" as in Libya.
Meanwhile, thousands of people flood across the borders to escape the fighting in Libya, amid calls for international action to impose no-fly zones and further economic sanctions.








>>> thats rich commming from a country which has been doing the exact same thing recently.

[Sasha]

5:16pm



Al Jazeera's Tony Birtley, on the road between Ras Lanuf and Bin Jawad, reports four airstrikes on the area, but that Gaddafi's troops have retreated as the armed opposition proceeds westwards along the coast.

This has gone so smoothly for the rebels, everyone is forced to ask: "When are Gaddafi's forces going to strike back?"

I think the people here are driven by enthusiasm more than experience. They do have some heavy weaponry- but many realistic people here are telling me that Sirte is a different ball game.

If that falls, there is little to stop them marching on to Tripoli - so Gaddafi is expected to put up a very strong fight there, just 100km to the west of here. And we have yet to see the full strength of Gaddafi's air power - the helicopter gunships and so on.


Timestamp:
5:05pm


More from Al Jazeera's Anita McNaught:

We're now in mid-afternoon and people are still celebrating victories that have not yet been won, and the end of a war that has not yet finished. They are very sincere, but you have to wonder what these people have been told.

Green Square was only about one-fifth full. And the shots of the square on Libyan state TV were filmed quite close - you may have seen some wider shots in our footage ... Of the four people we recorded, one was Algerian, one was Palestinian and two were Libyan. It's hard to ascertain exactly how representative this crowd is.

And we haven't yet got to the bottom of the heavy gunfire I heard this morning as I stood outside the front of my hotel, you could hear it right across the city - pistols, machine gun fire. But I also did see some of those fireworks in Green Square the authorities were talking about this morning.

Once the sun rose, it definitely took on a more celebratory feel - but it's still unclear what was going on in those pre-dawn hours.


Timestamp:
4:45pm


Al Jazeera's Anita McNaught, reporting from Tripoli, describes the city as a "parallel universe".

Celebrations are still continuing for this 'great military victory' that teh people here in Tripoli seem to believe that Colnel Gaddafi's forces have already achieved ...
A colleague of mine, who works for the British Daily Telegraph, asked a few of the people in Green Square today what they actually did for a job - and after a lot of umming and ahhing, a lot of them admitted to him they were either army or police in civilian clothes filling up the numbers in the square - which, by the way, was not in any way full.
There is terrible anxiety here about the country falling into sectarian and tribal disunity - and that seems to be the great fear here - and that seems to be what they view as what Muammar Gaddafi's great gift has been - a man - the only man - who could unite Libya and keep it from falling into a thousand pieces by the evil actions of foreign powers and foreign interference - not just Al Jazeera.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Heard about the downed fighter jet and the captured weapons caches that had been seized by the rebels...it did sound on the radio that they were on the upswing.

[Luís Henrique]

>>> thats rich commming from a country which has been doing the exact same thing recently.

It is called a diversion.

He actually doesn't want Gaddafy to fall, but since this is something difficult to even utter, he tries to change the subject.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

This has gone so smoothly for the rebels, everyone is forced to ask: "When are Gaddafi's forces going to strike back?

It looks like Gaddafy has more weapons than the rebels, but less fighters.

I was expecting Zawiya to fall last evening. The onslaught was brutal, and frankly it didn't seem that the rebels were able to stop the loyalist advance. But then the tanks, after an orgy of fire and blood, retreated. It seems Gaddafy has not enough trustable infantry to secure the place.

On the other hand, the rebels seem able to hold the cities and towns, but not the roads connecting them, and so Gaddafy's forces are more less at ease going thro and fro the country.

Luís Henrique

[Sasha]

there are rumours that there are negotiations between kadaffi and the rebels, at least in so far that the regime offered negotiations about an volunteer stepping down by gadaffi if the rebels promise impunity for prosecution , the rebels have rejected negotiations but said that if gadaffi steps down and leaves the country he wont be prosecuted.
so maybe there is an opening to an way out of some sorts and if the by the british/french proposed no fly zone makes it through the security council this week, wich it might as both the Arab League and the OIC (organisation of islamic countrys) back the proposal now further isolating russia and china, things might move out of deadlock fast as gadaffi will loose an major military advantage if an no-fly zone is established.

[Luís Henrique]

there are rumours that there are negotiations between kadaffi and the rebels, at least in so far that the regime offered negotiations about an volunteer stepping down by gadaffi if the rebels promise impunity for prosecution , the rebels have rejected negotiations but said that if gadaffi steps down and leaves the country he wont be prosecuted.
so maybe there is an opening to an way out of some sorts and if the by the british/french proposed no fly zone makes it through the security council this week, wich it might as both the Arab League and the OIC (organisation of islamic countrys) back the proposal now further isolating russia and china, things might move out of deadlock fast as gadaffi will loose an major military advantage if an no-fly zone is established.

However, both Gaddafy and the rebels have denied such talks. It seems to be either a rumour or an unauthorised move by well-intentioned people with no credentials.

Things seem to evolve towards a stalemate, and perhaps even into a Gaddafyite counter-offensive. Imperialism will be under increased stress; they have no will to intervene, and fear doing so would spark anti-Western sentiments, but not intervening would damage their claims about their democratic intentions.

Naturally, oil was always safe to the "West" under Gaddafy, so there is no actual reason to eject him. What the Western countries fear is a protracted fight, that could damage oil infrastructure and halt oil dealings. So whatever side seems to be closer to victory will be regarded as the proper solution. Last week that would be the rebels; if things keep evolving at the same pace, this will soon be Gaddafy.

Luís Henrique

[PhoenixAsh]

Today there of Gadaffi's private planes took off from Libya and flew to Cairo, Athens and Vienna. The planes are supposed to carry high government officials....but the identity of these poeple is unknown.

It is rumoured it is possible these may be Gadaffi's family and perhaps Gadaffi himself.

Though other sources say its actually diplomats.

The crew of the planes have said there were no high government officials on board.



>> unconfirmed

[Os Cangaceiros]

new video of some rebel forces:

-WNEvHPGU9w

[khad]

15:02 The hospital in Ras Lanuf has been evacuated - under rocket fire, AFP says. At least four rockets exploded near the hospital and a mosque where rebel fighters had just finished praying, reports the agency. Doctors and medics were reported fleeing the premises amid panic, cramming patients into the few amublances available.

15:10 Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel Hamid, reporting from Benghazi, tells us there is a feeling there that "the tide is reversing", and people are worried the city could be next in line for Gaddafi's backlash.

16:36 Reuters A revolutionaries’ source says forces loyal to Col Gaddafi have been firing rockets from offshore oil tankers at rebel positions onshore at the oil port of Ras Lanuf. “I see them with my own eyes. The oil tankers are rocketing the town,” the source said. “Planes are also bombing and rockets are being launched from the land.”

17:41 Several news agencies have reported that Ras Lanuf appears under Gaddafi’s control. Al Jazeera’s Tony Birtley said “dozens” have been killed. Birtley said he fled the town with an opposition commander who said “all of his men were killed”. A witness told BBC Arabic that tens of dead bodies litter the streets of a residential area in the oil port of Ras Lanuf, from where rebels are retreating after a ferocious a pounding in recent days

[Luís Henrique]

Military situation is deteriorating quickly.

Zawyia fell, the rebel offensive in the East was stopped, and Gadaffyists are back to Ras Lanuf.

While the rebels cannot transform themselves into actual soldiers in the short term, Gaddafy's soldiers seem to be finding the resolve that they lacked in the first days.

This should lead us back to the kernel issue: politics. While it is increasingly clear that Gaddafy can beat the rebels in the battlefield, politically his regime is dead. It can no longer pose as "anti-imperialist", as the only actual anti-imperialist forces are the popular classes, and he has alienated them for good. It will have to kneel down to imperialist powers, which no longer trust it as an adequate controller in Libya - so its deals with imperialism will from now on be made from a position of weakness.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

15:02 The hospital in Ras Lanuf has been evacuated - under rocket fire, AFP says. At least four rockets exploded near the hospital and a mosque where rebel fighters had just finished praying, reports the agency. Doctors and medics were reported fleeing the premises amid panic, cramming patients into the few amublances available.

15:10 Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel Hamid, reporting from Benghazi, tells us there is a feeling there that "the tide is reversing", and people are worried the city could be next in line for Gaddafi's backlash.

16:36 Reuters A revolutionaries’ source says forces loyal to Col Gaddafi have been firing rockets from offshore oil tankers at rebel positions onshore at the oil port of Ras Lanuf. “I see them with my own eyes. The oil tankers are rocketing the town,” the source said. “Planes are also bombing and rockets are being launched from the land.”

17:41 Several news agencies have reported that Ras Lanuf appears under Gaddafi’s control. Al Jazeera’s Tony Birtley said “dozens” have been killed. Birtley said he fled the town with an opposition commander who said “all of his men were killed”. A witness told BBC Arabic that tens of dead bodies litter the streets of a residential area in the oil port of Ras Lanuf, from where rebels are retreating after a ferocious a pounding in recent days

A blood bath may be in the way.

Luís Henrique

[khad]

A blood bath may be in the way.

Luís Henrique
Many wondered why these "battles" thus far have only reported 10 or so killed per day. Well, now you know. Now it's a real war.

[Luís Henrique]

Many wondered why these "battles" thus far have only reported 10 or so killed per day. Well, now you know. Now it's a real war.

Yup.

Gaddafy has been able to unify his side. The tide has changed.

I wonder what consequence this is going to have in other Arab countries. Gaddafy has shown that the revolution is not irresistible.

Luís Henrique

[Welshy]

I was watching MSNBC and they said that Clinton is going to meet with rebel leaders. Also on Al-Jazeera it says that the French government has recognized the rebels as the legitimate government.

[Os Cangaceiros]

As long as the regime forces can pound the rebels w/ impunity from the air, I don't see much chance for the opposition. There was a report from the Guardian that there's been a shake-up in military command at Benghazi, and a former officer who defected from the regime is trying to purge the rebel forces of all the people who randomly grabbed guns, in an effort to create a more disciplined force.

In other news:


According to a Pakistan Observer article (http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-8407522/aHR0cDovL3Bha29ic2VydmVyLm5ldC9kZXRhaWxuZXdzLmFzcD 9pZD03ODAwOQ==), (the only English Newspaper in the country) " The United States, Britain and France have sent several hundred defense advisors to train and support the anti-Gadhafi forces in oil-rich Eastern Libya where armed rebel groups have apparently taken over."

Although the troops are classified as "advisers" they have brought not only fighting know-how but several caches of weapons and all the necessary provisions for a prolonged stay in the region, as well.

It has not been stated specifically what weapons the special forces operatives have brought with them. It has reported that a Libyan official has said "the three Western states have landed their special forces troops in Cyrenaica and are now setting up their bases, and training centers." This is to reinforce the rebel forces that are resisting pro-Gadhafi forces in several adjoining areas.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/8407522-us-troops-already-on-the-ground-in-libya

[khad]

As long as the regime forces can pound the rebels w/ impunity from the air, I don't see much chance for the opposition. There was a report from the Guardian that there's been a shake-up in military command at Benghazi, and a former officer who defected from the regime is trying to purge the rebel forces of all the people who randomly grabbed guns, in an effort to create a more disciplined force.
It's not even certain whose side the defectors are on anyway. The generals leading the defector troops, particularly of the 1000 or so special forces and the 3000 in Tobruk, have so far refused to commit to front line action against the government. In Benghazi the army hasn't even secured the streets and arms depots from the chaos caused by the departure of the government. The people who "randomly grabbed guns," as you call them, are the ones watching the arms supplies.

According to one member of the interim council, "they [the generals in charge of the defected troops] are playing games."

[PhoenixAsh]

I just read in a Dutch article that member (James Clapper) of the US intelligence community has stated that the forces of Gadaffi are now appearing to have regained the initiatve and seem to be winning. He stated this to members of congress. He added that this might be because of heavy weaponry in their posesion which Gadaffi has allocated to forces absolutely loyal to his regime


I don't know it this is true. And I certainly do not know if his report is accurate...

But could this serve an agenda of intervention? Perhaps this guy is lobbying or adding weight to some corporate agenda?

[PhoenixAsh]

Al Zawiya has been reported as fallen.


can anybody confirm?

[Dimentio]

They will probably instate a No Flight Zone.

[Dimentio]

If they don't do it within two weeks though, Gaddafi would probably win the war. I doubt that he could be able to control the country without severe oppression for many years.

[Luís Henrique]

I doubt that he could be able to control the country without severe oppression for many years.

Yes, this is the main problem. Gaddafy will mount a huge crackdown if he wins, and will have to rely increasingly on imperialist support - which will come in the worst possible way: covertly, and at a very high price - which will be paid by the Libyan people, of course, not by Gaddafy or his family.

Luís Henrique

[Wanted Man]

I saw a brief report on Euronews just now which also basically stated the same thing, and that, especially in Tripoli, Gaddafi's supporters are confident. The implication is that only a no-fly zone (which Gates has previously said would have to start with attacking Libya's air defences) can turn the tide. So unfortunately right now the choice seems to be between a crushing of the revolt or an intervention, and the Libyans lose either way.

[ckaihatsu]

I saw a brief report on Euronews just now which also basically stated the same thing, and that, especially in Tripoli, Gaddafi's supporters are confident. The implication is that only a no-fly zone (which Gates has previously said would have to start with attacking Libya's air defences) can turn the tide. So unfortunately right now the choice seems to be between a crushing of the revolt or an intervention, and the Libyans lose either way.


Hey, maybe the Western powers will be *nice* and do the intervention *for free* and then leave Libya with its oil to the people of Libya -- !


x D


(dark humor)

[Luís Henrique]

There is absolutely no will to intervene.

The points at stake are, first, oil; and second, political stability.

It is impossible, at this moment, to understand which side would bring more stability and access to oil. Gaddafy wasn't a bad deal regarding oil; he also did seem quite stable. Now it is obvious that he wasn't; but the rebels are unknown and consequently unreliable. So propping them up is risky, at least without a previous negotiation. And, obviously, negotiating with them will be much easier if they are in real risk of a military defeat. So no reason to intervene in their favour.

Even a no-fly zone is complicated. As Wanted Man remarked, they know that establishing a no-fly zone requires neutralising Libya's anti-aerial defences. Which means actually attacking Libyan soil and killing Libyan soldiers on the ground. Not something to do now, especially with not only Libya, but the whole region in a shaky situation! The risk of turning the demonstrations in Middle East from mere opposition to the local tyrants into a furious anti-American movement is real - particularly because most tyrants in the region are traditional American allies.

Plus a no-fly zone is probably not enough in this situation. It can neutralise Gaddafy's Sukhois, but not his helicopters, which are more effective air-to-ground weapons.

Evidently, they cannot simply tell everybody this is a Libyan internal problem and that there is nothing to be done. They talked about establishing democracy in Iraq, right? So how comes they won't do anything for democracy in Libya? And of course, they have to ponder the possibility of the rebels toppling Gaddafy without their help, and then establishing a government that will negotiate from a position like, "Well, when we were under attack by Gaddafy, you didn't help us, did you? So exactly what do you want to talk about now, oil?" Multiply this by the whole region, again - do they want the people in Egypt or Yemen complaining about their inaction when protesters in another country were massacred by Gaddafy?

So they will talk a lot, and certainly make threats of varied calibers. But intervention?

They would need the agreement of the majority of the Arab countries - but, at this moment, the agreement of the Saudi King, or of the president of Iraq, is worth exactly what? They are under the risk of mounting an alliance of a dozen countries to cover up their intervention - and then, in a month or two, discovering that the governments of half the alliance have been toppled.

Luís Henrique

[psgchisolm]

Personally I think it's too late for anything other than either a miracle or some serious support given to the Libyans for the tides to change. The rebels have lost the initiative and the Pro-Qaddafi forces are gaining momentum. All I can say is we have failed the Libyans. We have waited too long for anything major to be accomplished anymore. All I can hope for is that that miracle does happen.

[Palestine]

Al-Arabiya confimed: A Libyan jet pilot crashed kamikaze style in Bab-Al-Aziziya (Gaddafi's main base) in Tripoli.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I'm not going to rule them out yet. Gadafi has the ability to defeat the rebels on the battlefield, but he will over-extend his supply lines eventually, and the only weapons he'll be buying with all the arms embargoes will be rusty obsolete weapons like the t-55s from sub saharan africa and a few other places. Certainly, traditional arms suppliers will shy away from giving him equipment for some time, and they have the best "goods".

This could also turn into a protracted insurgency if he does take all the cities (he'd be holding each city with a skeleton force).

[Luís Henrique]

Al-Arabiya confimed: A Libyan jet pilot crashed kamikaze style in Bab-Al-Aziziya (Gaddafi's main base) in Tripoli.

Other optimistic reports quote Al Manara as a source. How reliable would them be?

Luís Henrique

[khad]

Other optimistic reports quote Al Manara as a source. How reliable would them be?

Luís Henrique
I don't see how this is in any way optimistic. Gaddafi and his government are still alive, so it appears that that martyrdom operation didn't accomplish shit. That probably wiped out half of the rebel air force just to make the people in Tripoli mad.

[Sentinel]

The situation is getting increasingly depressing, as the frontline is getting closer to Benghazi -- according to the news here. I'm not sure on what reports the news were based on though.

But if it's true the rebellion might soon be over. :(

[Luís Henrique]

I don't see how this is in any way optimistic. Gaddafi and his government are still alive, so it appears that that martyrdom operation didn't accomplish shit. That probably wiped out half of the rebel air force just to make the people in Tripoli mad.

I am talking about supposed news such as the rebels using aircrafts to attack Sirte, new splits among Gaddafyists, the capture of a tanker near Tobruk, the sinking of two Libyan Navy ships, the surrender of part of the Khamis brigade, the capture of Sirte's airport, etc. Those seem very optimistic, but I very much doubt any of them are true. So I am asking about the source that reports all that - are they minimally reliable, or are they just airing rebel propaganda or wishful thinking?

Luís Henrique

[khad]

I am talking about supposed news such as the rebels using aircrafts to attack Sirte, new splits among Gaddafyists, the capture of a tanker near Tobruk, the sinking of two Libyan Navy ships, the surrender of part of the Khamis brigade, the capture of Sirte's airport, etc. Those seem very optimistic, but I very much doubt any of them are true. So I am asking about the source that reports all that - are they minimally reliable, or are they just airing rebel propaganda or wishful thinking?

Luís Henrique
Well, you have one answer:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/16/benghazi-braces-battle-libya-endgame


The thud of the anti-aircraft guns and the crack of tracer bullets parading across the night sky like giant fireflies finally died down some time before dawn. Even those doing the shooting weren't entirely sure what had prompted the torrent of fire at nothing in particular from every conceivable weapon held by the revolutionaries in Benghazi.

Some said it was because a rumour swept the city of Muammar Gaddafi's death at the hands of his own side – a rather colourful and entirely false account that had a suicide pilot crashing in to the Libyan dictator's compound. Then there was the rebel leadership's claim, equally unreliable, of a great victory that had forced Gaddafi's army back more than a hundred miles in a few hours.

[Niccolò Rossi]

The situation is getting increasingly depressing, as the frontline is getting closer to Benghazi -- according to the news here. I'm not sure on what reports the news were based on though.

But if it's true the rebellion might soon be over. :(

I'm surprised to still see self-described Trotskyists backing the rebels. In the early days of the events in Libya when it still had (or appeared to have) the colour of a popular uprising of the same nature of those in Tunisia, Egypt and beyond, sympathy with the people/the moment (note, they weren't 'the rebels' yet) was understandable. Now the situation is plainly one of civil war between Gaddafi and various tribal elements, elements of the former government that have broken away and certain western interests (the french most clearly for example).

Now of course you're going to have the nutters who call for victory to Gaddafi. Your going to have all those trying to walk the line with 'hands of Libya' headlines. But I'm actually quite surprised to see we still have some supporters of the rebels.

Meh. It takes all types I guess.

Nic.

[PhoenixAsh]

...and there it is:

US says measures needed may go beyond no fly zones (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201131715122293202.html)


"We need to be prepared to contemplate steps that include, but perhaps go beyond, a no-fly zone at this point, as the situation on the ground has evolved, and as a no-fly zone has inherent limitations in terms of protection of civilians at immediate risk."



US strategy may have been ---> wait out what develops, situation will surely deteriorate, so that would make public opinion sway in favor of actual boots on the ground.

[Palestine]

The situation is getting increasingly depressing, as the frontline is getting closer to Benghazi -- according to the news here. I'm not sure on what reports the news were based on though.

But if it's true the rebellion might soon be over. :(

Might soon be over??
Are you serious?? Gaddafi is so stupid that he finished it when it first started, did it occur to you how on earth is Gaddafi going to rule after what he's done?
Or even better who is Gaddafi going to rule?
This is not a civil war, this is a war, and trust me Gaddafi is in his last days, the rebels are winning and you will see!

[Dimentio]

Might soon be over??
Are you serious?? Gaddafi is so stupid that he finished it when it first started, did it occur to you how on earth is Gaddafi going to rule after what he's done?
Or even better who is Gaddafi going to rule?
This is not a civil war, this is a war, and trust me Gaddafi is in his last days, the rebels are winning and you will see!

If he is brutal enough and has enough loyal followers, he could sit for several more years. Look at Franco, who began his reign like that.

[Luís Henrique]

This is not a civil war, this is a war, and trust me Gaddafi is in his last days, the rebels are winning and you will see!

Militarily, no. Gaddafy is on the offensive now, and it seems that the rebels don't have the means to fight and actual war against him. Maybe things will change a bit when Gaddafy comes near Bengazi - terrain there is more favourable to defence, with woods that provide cover to resistants, and Gaddafy's supply lines may be overextended. But even this doesn't seem to probable.

Politically, Gaddafy is lost - but this doesn't mean he's necessarily going to be toppled soon. He might as well endure several years, through an isolated regime of maddened repression and further destruction of Libya's bottom up organisations. He certainly has money (oil) to pay for such apocalyptical fantasies.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

But I'm actually quite surprised to see we still have some supporters of the rebels.

Since the options seem to be either the rebel victory, or a semi-genocidal bloodbath, it doesn't take too much imagination to understand why there is such support.


Meh. It takes all types I guess.

Indeed... including "leftists" that are indifferent, or even openly support, a far-right third-positionist dictatorship onslaught on common people.

Luís Henrique

[Os Cangaceiros]

lol lol lol (http://www.timeslive.co.za/africa/article970775.ece/Gaddafi-wants-Sarkozy-to-return-election-funding)



"Sarkozy must first give back the money he took from Libya to finance his electoral campaign," Gaddafi's son said when asked about France, which has along with Britain been leading calls for military intervention in Libya.

"We funded it and we have all the details and are ready to reveal everything. The first thing we want this clown to do is to give the money back to the Libyan people.

"He was given assistance so that he could help them. But he’s disappointed us: give us back our money. We have all the bank details and documents for the transfer operations and we will make everything public soon."

[Luís Henrique]

lol lol lol (http://www.timeslive.co.za/africa/article970775.ece/Gaddafi-wants-Sarkozy-to-return-election-funding)

This could certainly help ending Sarkozy's carreer.

Luís Henrique

[Sasha]

i guess we are on a crucial point, khadaffi has said the assault and "purification" of benghazi will start tonight, the UN will vote on an resolution on a no-flyzone and "give Arab and other nations" (intresting word choice, maybe the egyptian militairy wants to asssert its "new" power) every option to protect the civilianpopulation excluding an occupation.
Kadaffi in turn threathend to retailate to any military interverance by hitting civilian targets (boats, airplanes) in the mediteranian sea. An threat that IMO will only increase the likelyhood of the resolution passing and an new scud rocket attack on him and his regime.
guess i will be glued to aljazeera again tonight.

[psgchisolm]

I'm not going to rule them out yet. Gadafi has the ability to defeat the rebels on the battlefield, but he will over-extend his supply lines eventually, and the only weapons he'll be buying with all the arms embargoes will be rusty obsolete weapons like the t-55s from sub saharan africa and a few other places. Certainly, traditional arms suppliers will shy away from giving him equipment for some time, and they have the best "goods".

This could also turn into a protracted insurgency if he does take all the cities (he'd be holding each city with a skeleton force).
Obselete weapons are shit against a half decent military. The rebels ARE NOT a half decent military. T-55s are a lot better than what the rebels have. He can replace equipment which the rebels don't have the option of. Some of them AREN'T even armed. Even if he did hold each city with a skeleton force. The rebels will have been defeated, they will likely have little to no weapons, and they will probably have suffered major casualties from the ensuing battles that happened there.


...and there it is:

US says measures needed may go beyond no fly zones (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201131715122293202.html)


"We need to be prepared to contemplate steps that include, but perhaps go beyond, a no-fly zone at this point, as the situation on the ground has evolved, and as a no-fly zone has inherent limitations in terms of protection of civilians at immediate risk."



US strategy may have been ---> wait out what develops, situation will surely deteriorate, so that would make public opinion sway in favor of actual boots on the ground.
What forces do we exactly expect to use? National Guard? The only thing I can think of is Special Forces(including Airborne) that will be able to actually do something like hold Benghazi and attack the Gaddafi military. Even then they will be limited in the amount of attacking they can do.

[Artemis3]

An Spanish blogger Leonor Massanet said the rebel leaders have left the country, and Gadafi forces are already there in Bengazi. And the tribes are stating they are now "in favor" of the Government. http://leonorenlibia.blogspot.com/

The army is capturing many Egyptians who were fighting "the holy war". If Nato intervenes, it will be too late and will most likely backfire among the arab world.

[Who?]

Long live Muammar Muhammad al-Gaddafi! Leader and Guide of the Revolution of Libya!

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Long live Muammar Muhammad al-Gaddafi! Leader and Guide of the Revolution of Libya!

Are you being sarcastic?

[Luís Henrique]

It seems they have mustered resolve enough to put up a no-fly zone, after all. Now let's see if this is effective on the ground to the point of turning the tide against Gaddafy, or if it will result in a renewed stalemate, or if Gaddafy will still be able to continue his attacks regardless.

This probably signals that they have achieved some degree of trust and agreement with the rebel leadership. To what extent the leadership is representative of the rank and file, that's an interesting question.

Luís Henrique

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

His tanks will be exposed in the desert. Also, his AA units are probably fine, but dated compared to NATO weapons. Considering all he has going for him in this current offensive are a few old migs and sus, and a fancy tank division in the East, it will certainly hinder his efforts. Perhaps he will be forced to the negotiating table.

I imagine fighter jets are already scrambling if the paper has been signed. Prepare to see big news soon.

[PhoenixAsh]

What forces do we exactly expect to use? National Guard? The only thing I can think of is Special Forces(including Airborne) that will be able to actually do something like hold Benghazi and attack the Gaddafi military. Even then they will be limited in the amount of attacking they can do.

France + Arab league...

[PhoenixAsh]

UN vote passed 10 in favor; 0 against; 5 abstentions (ao. Russia and china)

Immediate seaze fire. No fly zones + protection of safe zones protected by sea, land and air. Arms embargo. Ban of all international flights from Lybian airlines. Freezing of assets of several individuals not yet frozen + all state owned companies.

[Dimentio]

Qadhafi is toast.

[Sasha]

Egypt denies they will be military involved, two other Arab nations are said to will be but its unclear wich, only country confirmed is France that said it will be more a question of hours instead of days before it takes action.

Al jazeera broadcasts huge jubilant crowds in benghazi.

On a personal level I'm deeply torn on this, like said before I don't principly oppose a no-fly zone esp now it doesn't seem to unilateral yet I'm also an anti-militarist and oppose armed adventurism and things like NATO.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Military hardware right away would have been the best way to aid the rebels. A no fly zone now is replacing the initial under reaction with an over reaction by NATO, with unpredictable results.

Also, the stink of hypocrisy from "foggy bottom" (I think they call it) over the innocents in Bahrain and Yemen has reached the West Coast. Obama's reaction in those states more or less mirrored Chavez's dumbfounded reaction at Gaddafi's collapse.

[Nolan]

Apparently Gaddafi has compared his entry into Benghazi to Franco's entry of Madrid. The fucker is full of himself.

[Dimentio]

Apparently Gaddafi has compared his entry into Benghazi to Franco's entry of Madrid. The fucker is full of himself.

WUT? Link plz

[Nolan]

WUT? Link plz

It's in Spanish.
(http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/992465/0/gadafi/trafico/mediterraneo/)

El líder libio, Muamar el Gadafi, ha comparado en un discurso de audio difundido por la televisión estatal la entrada de Franco en Madrid durante la guerra civil española con la que él pretende llevar a cabo esta noche en Bengasi.

No habrá misericordia con los traidores "Vosotros sois la quinta columna en la ciudad", afirmó dirigiéndose a los habitantes del bastión rebelde en el este del país, a los que considera sus hipotéticos partidarios, y dijo que se apoyará en ellos para "liberar" la urbe de "los traidores y los perros".

[the last donut of the night]

The shit has officially hit the fan. Actually, that's gonna happen tomorrow:


UNITED NATIONS — The United Nations Security Council (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/s/security_council/index.html?inline=nyt-org) approved a measure on Thursday authorizing “all necessary measures” to protect Libyan civilians from harm at the hands of forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/q/muammar_el_qaddafi/index.html?inline=nyt-per). ....The United States, originally leery of any military involvement in Libya, became a strong proponent of the resolution, particularly after the Arab League (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/a/arab_league/index.html?inline=nyt-org) approved a no-fly zone, something that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/hillary_rodham_clinton/index.html?inline=nyt-per) called a “game changer” (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/world/africa/18nations.html?_r=1&hp)

Here's the article. (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/world/africa/18nations.html?_r=1&hp)

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

All I can say is, if a member of were in Gaddafi's brigades were concerned for their survival, I'd tell them to stay inside and or if they are ordered on a bombing run I'd tell them to defect. And the wheel of history keeps turning...

[psgchisolm]

The shit has officially hit the fan.
For Gaddafi of course.

[The Vegan Marxist]

For Gaddafi of course.

For everyone in Libya dip shit. The UN didn't just vote 'yes' to no-fly zones, but also no-drive zones. When's the last time you heard the US and their lackey's actually not abusing said powers and actually "hit the right targets" without innocent life being killed in conclusion? Unlike Gaddafi who didn't use air-strikes on populated cities, all in order to avoid infrastructure, the US +allies won't give a flying fuck what they hit through air-strikes.

[Sasha]

What the fuck are you talking about? No one trusts the US but really, give up on the gadaffi cheerleading already, he has been shelling towns for days, killed scores of soldiers refusing to shoot their fellow countrymen and threatend massmurder as late as today. Your the worst of an emberasment to any decent leftist.

[Niccolò Rossi]

Since the options seem to be either the rebel victory, or a semi-genocidal bloodbath, it doesn't take too much imagination to understand why there is such support.

Could you clarify this. Should we take this as support for the rebels as a lesser evil? I'd be sadly surprised if this was your position.


Indeed... including "leftists" that are indifferent, or even openly support, a far-right third-positionist dictatorship onslaught on common people.

I'm not sure who those 'indifferent' are. Could you clarify this?

There are certainly those who refuse to take a stand and instead vaguely utter slogans like "hands off Libya(n people)". Then there are internationalists who argue the working class has no stake in either of the warring factions. But neither is 'indifferent'.

Nic.

[psgchisolm]

Could you clarify this. Should we take this as support for the rebels as a lesser evil? I'd be sadly surprised if this was your position.
If they win they win. If they lose expect the Libyan version of The Great Purge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge)

[The Vegan Marxist]

What the fuck are you talking about? No one trusts the US but really, give up on the gadaffi cheerleading already, he has been shelling towns for days, killed scores of soldiers refusing to shoot their fellow countrymen and threatend massmurder as late as today. Your the worst of an emberasment to any decent leftist.

Pft. That's rich. Coming from those rooting on the rebels and the NCLO, not thinking a fucking second if what the media were reporting was true or not. I haven't rooted on Gaddafi, or taken sides. I don't like Gaddafi for what he became, but I support Libya's independence. And if that means opposing the imperialist-run NCLO and these clear imperialist acts of aggression, then that's what's needing to be done. I could care less what your anarcho-b.s thinks of me.

[psgchisolm]

Pft. That's rich. Coming from those rooting on the rebels and the NCLO, not thinking a fucking second if what the media were reporting was true or not. I haven't rooted on Gaddafi, or taken sides. I don't like Gaddafi for what he became, but I support Libya's independence. And if that means opposing the imperialist-run NCLO and these clear imperialist acts of aggression, then that's what's needing to be done. I could care less what your anarcho-b.s thinks of me.
How do you know it's NOT true? Have you been there? There are a lot of Libyans Saying otherwise about the civil rights abuses.

What imperialist acts of aggression? Only recently has a no-fly zone been passed. Which the entire Arab committee agreed too, and even then they went to the UNSC. Most of the units are Arab so wtf are you getting at? Are there even any US forces getting involved?


but I support Libya's independence.
While completely overlooking the workers.

[Red Commissar]

The US's decision to push this through the UN successfully has one major ramification for Qaddafi. Mainly that now the shifting loyalties of certain groups may now toss their lot in with the rebels rather than consider Qaddafi. He's a sinking boat now and the rats are jumping off.

The other thing really, I don't know- I'm looking at this rebellion and I wonder if it still has the same popular image it had originally. I remember at the beginning the jubilation about the people rising in the east and even parts of the military joining them (where the hell did that part of the military go now or these mass desertions for that matter?).

Now it seems to be a mudfight between Qaddafi's circle and the figures constituting the Libyan National Transitional Council. I think that may partially be behind why the US finally managed to get their thing through the door now, because the movement is now more dictated by figures claiming to represent the rebels and popular demands, rather than a more robust popular movement acting on its own accord. It's easier for foreign powers to work with the former than the latter of course.

We're on the path to a post-Qaddafi Libya. That's a good thing for the people of Libya. But can the popular movement remain strong? I hope they do but I'm getting cynical by the day.

But of course I'm here on a computer while people are dying- it's up to them to make their own destinies.

[psgchisolm]

Jip9gXW4gDII love the way they bust in to say Fuck You Gaddafi.

[The Vegan Marxist]

While completely overlooking the workers.

You do realize what's going on in Libya is a civil war, right? There's workers on both sides, fighting each other! What about the innocent African migrants (workers!) that were being massacred, lynched by the rebel opposition? Do they not count in your book? Since these were the people being labeled as the so-called "mercenaries". Mercenaries, I might add, that even Human Rights Watch stated there's no evidence to such a rumor.

[Who?]

Are you being sarcastic?

Yes, I was being sarcastic.

I don't support either side, both are terribly bourgeois; both are leading workers to their deaths.

[Artemis3]

And yet, when the King of Bahrain decrees martial law, and brings armed forces (from neighboring countries) to shoot pacific, unarmed civilians living in tents in a square, only demanding democratic reforms; there is no UN resolution. And what about Yemen? Saudi Arabia itself? The situation in Palestine is unspeakable.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I don't dispute that there are bourgeois members of the council, but are they categorically bourgeois? There were bourgeois supporters of the Egyptian and Tunisian revolutions too, but we didn't see so much wining about it from the "Left" then.

VM-I provided a link to bahraini protesters attacking bangladeshis ... are you opposed to the Bahrain protests too now? do you think the "rumours" of the Bahrain monarchy forcing Bengalis to protests for the government are "unproven" therefore categorically false?

[The Vegan Marxist]

I don't dispute that there are bourgeois members of the council, but are they categorically bourgeois? There were bourgeois supporters of the Egyptian and Tunisian revolutions too, but we didn't see so much wining about it from the "Left" then.

VM-I provided a link to bahraini protesters attacking bangladeshis ... are you opposed to the Bahrain protests too now? do you think the "rumours" of the Bahrain monarchy forcing Bengalis to protests for the government are "unproven" therefore categorically false?

I'm not against the protests, but I am against any protester who commits known crimes against innocent civilians. Every opposition rebel who lynched innocent African migrants should be put to trial. And let's not kid ourselves here. These people are not "protesters", they're armed combatants. Whether "good" or "bad", there's a clear, distinctive difference between a "protester" and an armed combatant.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I'm for trying the racists too. But it's unlikely they will come to justice.

As for whether or not they are "armed combatants" or "protesters", those arent mutually exclusive categories. They are protesters who took up arms when the government used force against them.

Anyhow, it is naive to forget that racist elements often act out during a revolution, especially when there are actions by the state to exacerbate those tensions. As I said, the same thing has happened in Bahrain. And in earlier revolutions, this was common too ... for instance, in the Mexican revolution, there were nasty anti-Chinese pogroms by the Revolutionaries ... of course, the revolutionaries were still better than Diaz or Huerta.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Anyhow, it is naive to forget that racist elements often act out during a revolution, especially when there are actions by the state to exacerbate those tensions. As I said, the same thing has happened in Bahrain. And in earlier revolutions, this was common too ... for instance, in the Mexican revolution, there were nasty anti-Chinese pogroms by the Revolutionaries ... of course, the revolutionaries were still better than Diaz or Huerta.

I find it rather naive to believe that every revolution will fuel racism upon the revolutionary's side. This is not a fact for other revolutions, whereas it is upon others.

[ckaihatsu]

Stop U.S./U.N. military intervention against Libya!


No new U.S. war! U.S. out of the Middle East!

Hit the streets on March 19 to Resist the War Machine. For information about the March 19 protest in Chicago go to: http://www.chicagoanswer.net

A U.S. Air Force F-15C Eagle patrols over
northern Iraq on Dec. 30, 1998, enforcing the
no-fly-zone imposed by the United States and
its allies.


The United Nations Security Council just approved a bombing war on the people of Libya. The resolution, authorizing a no-fly zone, was pushed hard by the United States, along with its French and British imperialist allies. The resolution also authorizes “all necessary measures” against Libya.

Before the vote, U.S. Sec. of State Hillary Clinton beat the drums of war: “A no-fly zone requires certain actions taken to protect the planes and the pilots, including bombing targets like the Libyan defense systems. … [Libyan leader Muammar] Gaddafi must go.”

Clinton also promoted a racist demonization campaign against Gaddafi, another way the U.S. justifies its wars of aggression: “If Gaddafi does not go, he will just make trouble. That is just his nature. There are some creatures that are like that.”

The media is reporting that bombing could begin soon. The U.S. anti-war movement must take a clear stand against any military intervention by the United States or any member state in the U.S.-dominated United Nations.

U.S./U.N. intervention will not bring “democracy” or “freedom” to the Libyan people. There is no such thing as “humanitarian intervention” for the U.S. government. Progressive people must tear the mask off the phony humanitarian slogans being used by the White House, the Secretary of State and the Pentagon about their “deep concern” for the fate of the Libyan people.

Remember, this is the same government that funded and supported Egyptian dictator Hosni Mubarak up to the last minute of his brutal rule.

And now, as they are condemning Gaddafi and the Libyan government for the use of violence against the revolt inside of Libya, the U.S. government—through its proxy/puppet monarchy in Saudi Arabia—is arming, financing and sending troops to Bahrain to violently suppress the protests that have been happening for weeks.

How dare the U.S. government even speak of “humanitarian intervention.”

The U.S. government only takes action to forward its own strategic interests. This means the interests of Big Oil, Wall Street bankers and massive corporations. Working people gain nothing through U.S. wars and interventions.

Libya has the largest oil reserves in Africa. Washington knows this. It would like nothing more than to have a stable client government in place that would allow U.S. bases on the ground and control of the oil supply.

Any U.S./U.N. intervention against Libya will not liberate the people of Libya any more than the U.S. invasion of Iraq did. In the early 1990s, the United States, France and Britain imposed a no-fly zone on Iraq on supposed humanitarian grounds. Along with U.N. sanctions, which eventually killed over 1.5 million Iraqis, the no-fly zone crippled the country and allowed continued bombing up to the “Shock and Awe” invasion in 2003.

Now, eight years later, another 1 million Iraqis have died and 4 million have been internally displaced, the country is in ruins and is still occupied by the U.S. military.

When the U.S. intervenes and occupies countries, history shows that U.S. military forces never leave the occupied country. The lessons of Afghanistan, Iraq and countless additional U.S. interventions reveal this to be all too true. Let this not be the fate of Libya.

On March 19, the eighth anniversary of the criminal invasion of Iraq, thousands of people will demonstrate in the streets across the country and the world against all U.S. wars, including any planned attack on the people of Libya. This is a critical issue for the anti-war movement in the United States.

Mass demonstrations are planned in Washington, D.C., San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago and many other cities across the United States and the world. Click here for a list of protests.

Your help is needed to make March 19 a successful day of action to resist the war machine. Please make a generous donation today. Click here to donate. Only the people can stop U.S. wars.
-----------------------------------------------------
ANSWER Chicago
773-463-0311
http://www.chicagoanswer.net

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I find it rather naive to believe that every revolution will fuel racism upon the revolutionary's side. This is not a fact for other revolutions, whereas it is upon others.

You seem fond of the straw man ... i didn't say EVERY revolution made room for racist violence, only that it was a COMMON FEATURE. Clearly, whether or not it happens depends on the material and cultural conditions. But it IS COMMON.

To focus on one part of your statement


This is not a fact for other revolutionsThis is patently false, as per the examples I already provided.

[Wanted Man]

Are people here seriously supporting the no-fly zone and the bombing that this implies? :-/

[ckaihatsu]

Are people here seriously supporting the no-fly zone and the bombing that this implies? :-/


No, because it's the geopolitical equivalent of spam -- too good to be true.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

The UN resolution is a VIP card for imperialistic armies to drop bombs all over Libya.

[CJCM]

How do you know it's NOT true? Have you been there? There are a lot of Libyans Saying otherwise about the civil rights abuses.

There are striking parallels to de FRY (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia) dismemberment in the early 90's. If you suppose that the corporate media, i.e. the television, radio and nondependent channels, gives you the correct un-biast news you only have to look at that conflict.
Propaganda and fake or immaterialized stories rise and shine on countries that don't allow capital to fully exploit their recourses.


What imperialist acts of aggression? Only recently has a no-fly zone been passed. Which the entire Arab committee agreed too, and even then they went to the UNSC. Most of the units are Arab so wtf are you getting at? Are there even any US forces getting involved?


Instating a no fly zone also means that air bases and anti air batteries need to be made 'unusable', given the fact that France was a major contributor to the air force of Libya destroying these resources gives the French weapon industry an impulse in this time of economic downturn (one of the reasons that France was the first country to recognize the rebels and sever diplomatic ties to Libya was just that)

[Sasha]

There are striking parallels to de FRY (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia) dismemberment in the early 90's. If you suppose that the corporate media, i.e. the television, radio and nondependent channels, gives you the correct un-biast news you only have to look at that conflict.
Propaganda and fake or immaterialized stories rise and shine on countries that don't allow capital to fully exploit their recourses.

how didnt libya allow capital to fully exploit their recourses? bilions on the frozen bankaccounts and spend in ridiculous things like FC juventus and 45 minutes of beyonce and other celebs performing for gadaffi's sons tell me that the exploitation was in full swing.

seriously the knee jerk simplicity from a lot of leftists is staggering, as soon as one "white" bomb hits an "brown" country the world turn suddenly black and white and gadaffi is one of the good guys again.

the world is not that simple, geopolitics is not that simple, diplomacy is not that simple, militarism is not that simple and no, capitalism is not that simple.

now, let me stress i'm not cheerleading the bombardments either, and where they an NATO iniative without UN backing like the bombs on Serbia let alone an iraqi or afghanistan imperialist invasion i would outright oppose them like i did those actions.

But the situation here is not that simple, the reasons to get involved for other nations are very diverse, yes partly to get an less dificult regime, one more in line with geo-political intrests but sincere human rights worrys are just as much an factor (the rwanda and somalia trauma's are deep and embarassing), public opinion is an factor and dont forgot some justiviable revenge, terrorist groups organised, paid, housed and trained in and by kadaffi wrecked havoc in both the western but also the Arab world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Nidal_Organization for starters)

[Sasha]

anyway:


Timestamp:
12:53pm


Resident of Misurata tells us that the city is still under heavy attacks from Gaddafi brigades, attacking from both the east and the west of the city. The forces have made some success advancing from the eastern side of the city, and the fire is indiscriminate ... hitting homes, mosques, and medical centres. Medical teams are unable to reach fighting areas and rescue those in need of medical help.



source: al jazeera

[Wanted Man]

how didnt libya allow capital to fully exploit their recourses? bilions on the frozen bankaccounts and spend in ridiculous things like FC juventus and 45 minutes of beyonce and other celebs performing for gadaffi's sons tell me that the exploitation was in full swing.

seriously the knee jerk simplicity from a lot of leftists is staggering, as soon as one "white" bomb hits an "brown" country the world turn suddenly black and white and gadaffi is one of the good guys again.

He's never been one of the good guys and only a total idiot would suggest that.


now, let me stress i'm not cheerleading the bombardments either, and where they an NATO iniative without UN backing like the bombs on Serbia let alone an iraqi or afghanistan imperialist invasion i would outright oppose them like i did those actions.

But the situation here is not that simple, the reasons to get involved for other nations are very diverse, yes partly to get an less dificult regime, one more in line with geo-political intrests but sincere human rights worrys are just as much an factor (the rwanda and somalia trauma's are deep and embarassing), public opinion is an factor and dont forgot some justiviable revenge, terrorist groups organised, paid, housed and trained in and by kadaffi wrecked havoc in both the western but also the Arab world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Nidal_Organization for starters)

Then what do you think and why can't you outright oppose bombings now?

[ckaihatsu]

This is a picking-up-the-slack-so-that-Libya-doesn't-devolve-into-a-morass argument -- but, as we know all too well from history, opening the door to larger involvements (as from the Western imperialist powers) may stabilize the *immediate* situation at the cost of being re-colonized for decades to come.

It would be preferable to see more of a pan-Arab solidarity at this point, to spread and generalize recent local struggles across all of North Africa -- instead we're seeing a concentrated hot spot develop in Benghazi which only invites divide-and-conquer from above.

[Luís Henrique]

As for whether or not they are "armed combatants" or "protesters", those arent mutually exclusive categories. They are protesters who took up arms when the government used force against them.

Yeah... some people here sound like they would have supported the October Revolution, but not the Bolsheviks fighting against the Whites in the Civil War.

Funny to see people who are always telling us that a revolution is not a picnic, that we cannot get the omelettes without cracking eggs, now all watery-eyed because "their" egg (Gaddafy) is going to be smashed.

Luís Henrique

[Palestine]

AJ: the Libyan foreign affairs ministry:" The Libyan regime in Tripoli, decided to cease fire and stop all military action".
What do you think guys?