Debate on Anarchism

[Sosa]

Can someone help me with some arguments I'm having with a fellow? I have his responses here:

How would an anarchist country interact with the rest of the world? How does an anarchist economy interact with a globally capitalist economy? I feel like these are legitimate questions that I do not know the answers to, and would like somebody who professes themselves knowledgeable on the subject to provide some.

A country is a geographical location with an arbitrary border. Now, unless an anarchist society is on an island, its borders are going to be determined by the countries around it. Also, if an anarchist society wants to interact with the rest of the world, then it needs to be recognised as a country by other nations, even if only to identify who/what/where they are talking about.

It still sounds like Marxism, which is fine with me. Syndicates, confederacies of syndicates, and federations which monitor different levels of the economy (similar to the municipal, provincial, and federal branches of government) sound like the equivalent of a governing body. Can you explain to me, please, what the difference between a governing body and a government are then? Because I cannot see the distinction.


No, the common consensus is that anarchy is a lack of government; i.e. a lack of a governing body. As soon as a governing body is introduced into a society, that society ceases to be an anarchy. These are the most common definitions of anarchy, and if you are using a different definition, then perhaps it might be more clear to define your ideology using a different term? It's just that I feel like we are arguing semantics here, not ideas.

[Victus Mortuum]

How would an anarchist country interact with the rest of the world? How does an anarchist economy interact with a globally capitalist economy? I feel like these are legitimate questions that I do not know the answers to, and would like somebody who professes themselves knowledgeable on the subject to provide some.

A country is a geographical location with an arbitrary border. Now, unless an anarchist society is on an island, its borders are going to be determined by the countries around it. Also, if an anarchist society wants to interact with the rest of the world, then it needs to be recognised as a country by other nations, even if only to identify who/what/where they are talking about.

A) Global Revolution
B) Who gives a fuck about other countries' "borders"?


It still sounds like Marxism, which is fine with me. Syndicates, confederacies of syndicates, and federations which monitor different levels of the economy (similar to the municipal, provincial, and federal branches of government) sound like the equivalent of a governing body. Can you explain to me, please, what the difference between a governing body and a government are then? Because I cannot see the distinction.

Anarchism is opposition to hierarchy. Anarchism is also incredibly similar to Marxism in what it proposed economically. Anarchists propose a system of recallable delegate from workers assemblies to coordinate production. Anarchists aren't opposed to voluntary democratic organization (what is being referred to here as "government")


No, the common consensus is that anarchy is a lack of government; i.e. a lack of a governing body. As soon as a governing body is introduced into a society, that society ceases to be an anarchy. These are the most common definitions of anarchy, and if you are using a different definition, then perhaps it might be more clear to define your ideology using a different term? It's just that I feel like we are arguing semantics here, not ideas.

The founder of Anarchism and the guy who coined the term, Proudhon, as well as just about every other anarchist writer in history has supported democratic coordination of economic affairs as I described above. Anarchism is anti-archy (that is unequal social relations, hierarchical authority), not just "anti-government". Dictionaries are not particularly good at describing complex political ideologies.

Perhaps you should find the time to read the anarchist faq?

http://www.infoshop.org/page/AnAnarchistFAQ

Hope this helps!

[Sosa]

Thanks mate!

[Sosa]

Also, what is a good way to describe the differences between government and state? Many get confused that it's the same thing and I get hung up on explaining the difference

[bcbm]

How would an anarchist country interact with the rest of the world?

war


How does an anarchist economy interact with a globally capitalist economy?

war


A country is a geographical location with an arbitrary border. Now, unless an anarchist society is on an island, its borders are going to be determined by the countries around it.

until they are dissolved


Also, if an anarchist society wants to interact with the rest of the world, then it needs to be recognised as a country by other nations, even if only to identify who/what/where they are talking about.

its only relationship with a capitalist world is war

[Victus Mortuum]

Well, generally speaking anarchists define government and state the same way:

A hierarchical institution controlled by a small segment of the population that uses force (standing/professional military/police) to coerce the population into accepting certain inequalities (so power inequalities generate income inequality, for example)

Sometimes Marxists will distinguish between government and state:
State: Professional and bureaucratic coercive instrument of class rule (basically the above, the inequalities btw are fundamentally capitalist property rights)
Government: A mechanism of social decision-making (note, this is where anarchists and marxists will sometimes argue about a 'government' - definitions matter here)

Basically, the two conceptions are the nearly same. Both call for the abolition of the state (see Lenin's State and Revolution).

The exact differences between Anarchists and Marxists is very blurred, as there is definitely some overlap.

[Amphictyonis]

anarchomarxism. thats all. walk away. just walk away. join hands, start a love train...love train.

kQvmCzILBfE

[StalinFanboy]

[/I][/B]war



war



until they are dissolved



its only relationship with a capitalist world is war

I wish I could rep this twice

[Vampire Lobster]

I wish I could rep this twice

you could pretend my rep is your rep

[syndicat]

No, the common consensus is that anarchy is a lack of government; i.e. a lack of a governing body. As soon as a governing body is introduced into a society, that society ceases to be an anarchy. These are the most common definitions of anarchy, and if you are using a different definition, then perhaps it might be more clear to define your ideology using a different term? It's just that I feel like we are arguing semantics here, not ideas.

Nope. historically anarcho-syndicalism advocated a union governing body or some kind of delegate body accountable to the base assemblies. There is still a governance structure. This bit about "no governing body" is a common stereotype used against anarchism (which some anarchists have helped along by their confused terminology).

[Savage]

Unfortunately the fallacious assumptions that you guys have refuted are just about the pinnacle of the non-anarchist understanding of anarchism, I think it's important for anarchists to make sure their adversaries know what they're on about.

[Victus Mortuum]

I think it's important for all socialists to work on clearing up the various schools of socialist thought in the public mind. When people ask you about socialism in general or your tendency - be sure to give a positive explanation of other schools of socialism if you understand them, or just say you don't understand them. Clarify always that socialism means workers democratic control of the MoP instead of capitalist dictatorial control of the MoP.