Egypt style revolution announced for Croatia ! - 22.2.2011.

[punisa]

Seems like Europe is next - there is a huge amount of information circulating the web in Croatia calling for mass demonstrations against the regime this tuesday !

I'm in Croatia and can confirm that the situation is very intense, everyone is speaking about this today.
This could very well be the entrance to the European revolution.

This is the message translated to English:
If you do not stand up now, we will be responsible for history, people will look back and wonder - how a nation could afford this criminal government to happen.

We urge you to tear down the government because we do not have any other choice. We have nothing to loose, situation cant be worse than this.

Every day 500 people are losing their jobs, and the refime is laughing at us and mocking us. Citizens are on their knees, the banks every day take away people's homes and confiscate wages and pensions. Insolvency is record high, small companies can no longer operate. Finding a job has become a mission impossible. 30,000 young people with university diploma are unemployed, and the same fate awaits others who will soon finish their schooling. HRT (Croatian national television) as a public broadcaster does not exist anymore, everything is censored.

This is not a political issue, this is a question of survival of our country and all people who live in it. The government simply has to fall, every new day in power is only one step further towards the bottom. Nobody has to be a prophet to predict where Kosor (Croatian prime minister) is leading us, the politics of HDZ (ruling party) along with all of its coalition partners has been the same for the last 20 years.

We are at the brick wall, we find ourselves in a corner and if you do not do something soon what follows is debt bondage, introduction of new taxes and a final fall of the middle class. The same one that has been systematically destroyed and exploited in the interest of political and financial elite . Do not be afraid of them, they are minority – we are the majority !

[Tommy4ever]

Your title made me laugh. :lol:

Didn't Albania experience major disturbances earlier this year? Nothing seemed to come of that.

However if the rising in Croatia is a significant one then it will indeed be very exciting.

Perhaps if the Croatian people stand up in enough numbers and perhaps even achieve something major then the rest of Europe will stand up. :)

Tell us how things turn out. :thumbup1:

[scarletghoul]

Awesome news. Good luck with this. If the government there happens to be toppled, what do you think could take its place ?

[punisa]

Your title made me laugh. :lol:

I was actually quoting one newspaper, Egypt has indeed became a catchphrase of all thing revolutionary here :thumbup1:
Which is a good thing, people should be inspired by Egypt.



Didn't Albania experience major disturbances earlier this year? Nothing seemed to come of that.

However if the rising in Croatia is a significant one then it will indeed be very exciting.

Perhaps if the Croatian people stand up in enough numbers and perhaps even achieve something major then the rest of Europe will stand up. :)

Tell us how things turn out. :thumbup1:

Yes, there was some protests in Albania, but it seems it died out. But who knows, it could always start again..
I think this protest in Croatia won't attract too many people, but it could be a beginning to something larger.
I'll report with the latest news.

[punisa]

Awesome news. Good luck with this. If the government there happens to be toppled, what do you think could take its place ?

It could indeed happen. As for what would come next.. it's hard to say, as for all revolutions these days. Nobody can say exactly what it leads to.
The thing that *could* be a bit problematic is the fact that Croatia has a large number of war veterans (from 1991-1995 Yugoslav wars) of which many still posses arms and are somewhat right-wing aligned.

On the other hand there is a huge population of young progressive college educated youth who are having a very hard time. Unemployment is at record high and people are loosing jobs rapidly.
On top of all that the country is deeply corrupt.

Formal opposition is rather week social democratic coalition. I sincerely that they could lead any revolution.
People are disillusioned with politics in general, because both political camps - center-left and center-right are just more of the same.

Lefties parties are almost non-exists, but the far right is also rather unpopular.
The strongest element in Croatia (unfortunately) is the catholic church, but I doubt they could play any major political role although they can indeed shift general opinion.

[Quetzal]

Do you have a link?

[Dimentio]

The Icelanders sort of succeeded in making a "revolution" in 2009. They surrounded the Parliament for some weeks and then the government resigned, new elections were held and a left-centrist government took it's place and continued to implement the IMF-sponsored policies.

What will happen is that the government will resign and new elections will be held.

To topple Representative Democracy with street protests is like catching an eel in a barrel of slime.

[punisa]

Do you have a link?
Unfortunately only in Croatian, like this: http://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/u-utorak-u-13-sati-na-markovom-trgu-prosvjed-za-rusenje-kosoricine-vlade/538785.aspx


What will happen is that the government will resign and new elections will be held.

To topple Representative Democracy with street protests is like catching an eel in a barrel of slime.
Exactly what my fear is, that's why I believe that the people under dictators have a much better chances of success - they can actually rally against a regime.
In the representative democracy the things are more difficult..

But I wouldn't compare Iceland and Croatia.
Iceland is a richer country not drowned in total corruption as we are here.

IF there are ever mass worker demonstrations on the streets of Croatia (so far, unseen) it will be very radical.
People here have no tradition of protesting, except for a couple of strikes, but these are usually conducted by the unions (which themselves are pretty corrupt as well).
So if it comes down to street demonstrations here it will mean that shit has really hit the fan.

Croats are somewhat similar to Egyptians, rather lethargic and ready to endure enormous exploitation for years. But I believe that they might be approaching that point where they can't take it anymore.
And that could be hell (in a positive way).

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Holy shit Glenn Beck was right, IT'S SPREADING TO EUROPE!

In all seriousness I hope Europe's governments start toppling like they have in the Middle East. You should bring a camera with you and take some pictures!

But who is it that is calling on these demonstrations?

[the last donut of the night]

It's amazing how things can snowball. I think when workers understand that change is possible, they start to understand the strength of their power. It's no wonder the protesters in Wisonsin constantly allude to the "Egyptian revolution"; it's no surprise the protests in the Middle East spread so quickly from Tunisia, either. All class struggles grow together, and one incident is never isolated. This is the biggest lesson these events offer the working class -- solidarity is key to winning the battle against oppression. As one Egyptian protester's sign said, "One world, one pain."

[punisa]

But who is it that is calling on these demonstrations?

The word is spreading on Facebook, I believe certain activists are behind the initial message, but I don't know all the details. I know that none of the political parties are behind this.

[Omsk]

@punisa:We will se about that tomorrow.By the way,is Kosor realy that unpopular?I know the people generaly dont like the leading top,but the situation is relatively normal.Correct me if i am wrong.
<Kosorka vam pravi probleme huh?>

[punisa]

@punisa:We will se about that tomorrow.By the way,is Kosor realy that unpopular?I know the people generaly dont like the leading top,but the situation is relatively normal.Correct me if i am wrong.
<Kosorka vam pravi probleme huh?>

I believe it's much more than that this time. It's not a simple dislike for the ruling class.
Croatia has been ruled by the same party for 20 years. This is a party created by the late president Tudjman who was leading the war back in the 90s.
The philosophy is ultra capitalist - the idea behind the new Croatia was that it should be ruled by 100 rich families, a capitalists wet dream..

Sure, the living standard in Croatia is still higher when compared to the eastern neighbors, but it has deteriorated dramatically in the recent years.
But for instance, Bahrain has a much higher GDP per capita then Croatia.
People are indeed fed up and this government has a very low percentage of approval.

Croatia suffered a mass de-industrialization in the last decade which caused the situation where virtually all jobs are residing in the service industry and speculative domain (sales, tourism etc etc).
This is very unstable and people generally suffer from the insecurity failing to predict what will happen with their lives tomorrow.
Prices are also on the rise including food.

The real source of unrest would probably be the capital Zagreb, with just over 1 million people.
This is the center of the insecurity, because its filled with workers coming from other parts of the country (myself included).
Other smaller cities are a bit more stable simply because many families rely on family members who live off the land (which means: cheap food supply).

The ruling party is not democratically elected.
The prime minister Ivo Sanader resigned 1.5 years ago and his deputy (current prime minister Kosor) took his place without elections taking place.
Since then there was a power struggle inside the regime and the former prime minister Sanader got accused of corruption and is currently sitting in jail in Austria.

[Rafiq]

These uprisings, they are like a revolutionary train with no Ideological driver to lead it to the right tracks. We must take command of this train, before it starts to travel to the same place it was traveling away from

[punisa]

The day of the protest has arrived, no word on how many people will turn out yet.
The police is erecting barricades.

http://www.index.hr/thumbnail.ashx?path=images3/097eae82-27be-4216-bf13-eae1447797c0.jpg&w=950&h=750&o=a

[Revolutionair]

Good luck. :thumbup1:

[Omsk]

Good luck!I hope you can turn the tide on the capitalist nationalist supporting goverment,i will post new information about the protest because i have got the HRT (Croatian national television) , i hope that this will be a time of changes,and that you will wake up in a different,better Croatia.But,i must ask,considering Croatia's troublesome past and the enmity regarding socialism and communism,who will the Croatian people follow?

[punisa]

update: protesters jumping over barricades, police is arresting them.

[punisa]

Good luck!I hope you can turn the tide on the capitalist nationalist supporting goverment,i will post new information about the protest because i have got the HRT (Croatian national television) , i hope that this will be a time of changes,and that you will wake up in a different,better Croatia.But,i must ask,considering Croatia's troublesome past and the enmity regarding socialism and communism,who will the Croatian people follow?

HRT is, as you said, national TV and thus it is very unlikely they will show anything of this nature.
As for enmity towards everything socialist, yes - that is my greatest worry as well.

[punisa]

http://www.index.hr/images2/kamenita_prosvjed-220211tadiccropxi.jpeg

[punisa]

Not many turned out, if anyone wants to watch live stream video, here it is: http://www.advance.hr/tv-uzivo/dnevnik-hr-prosvjed-sa-markovog-trga-uzivo/

[punisa]

Only 200 people turned up. Police arrested activist leaders. New protest are announced for Thursday.
Many speculate that the protest was fabricated and was only a provocation - being organized on Tuesday at 13:00 only 2 days earlier.

[Toppler]

I wish you all guys good luck in this :).

[punisa]

Second protest saw a larger number of people. While last time (22.2) only 100,200 showed up.
Tonight there was +1000 people. Clashed with the police occurred about 30 minutes after reaching the barricades. 8 people were arrested.
Police threw tear gas at the protesters after which they left.
More protests are announced for saturday.

Images:
http://www.index.hr/thumbnail.ashx?path=images3/70f7e3d3-6b93-4260-9c67-7d1fef0013c2.jpg&w=950&h=750&o=a

http://www.index.hr/thumbnail.ashx?path=images3/b9a9d700-ab30-4e60-bdf4-4f0d15c1c628.jpg&w=950&h=750&o=a

http://www.index.hr/thumbnail.ashx?path=images3/0f1f089b-bf23-4df2-a7f9-9afb4a3adcdf.jpg&w=950&h=750&o=a

http://www.index.hr/thumbnail.ashx?path=images3/fda4f820-133c-4f16-b3e1-471ddcc2a4e8.jpg&w=950&h=750&o=a

[PhoenixAsh]

Hope it gains momentum.

[punisa]

There is a problem unfortunately... the protests are being led by the ultra-capitalist individuals. Basically they want a full blown neo-liberal capitalism and rant about how there are too many socialist institutions still left in Croatia (!).
As long as this "revolution" is being led by such people I'm boycotting it.

[PhoenixAsh]

Aha....yes...thats a bit counter productive.

[irfanlal]

those of us who are living in ex-yugoslav republics won't see revolution for many more years 'cause we're lazy, stupid and don't give a f*** for those who are poor and almost have nothing to eat and we are only thinking on ourselves...those are some of main reasons why revolutions aren't something that will happen...ofc we don't have dictators, oppresive regimes and we're allowed to say anything and everything even to our politicians 'cause they also don't give a damn about us...so you in Croatia should wait for the elections 'cause Social Democratic Party is winning(it's sure thing) and that's maybe a chance for your country...this 'revolution' of yours is just a trend and if it's being led by an capitalist assholes I hope the police will kick asses of those capitalist shitheads and also of those who allowed to be led by such persons...

[punisa]

Aha....yes...thats a bit counter productive.

I think the growing anger towards the government is currently being hijacked by the far right groups who finally see the way to power.
This is indeed bad. :crying:

[Thirsty Crow]

I think the growing anger towards the government is currently being hijacked by the far right groups who finally see the way to power.
This is indeed bad. :crying:
I don't think that the entire group of people who protested even know the ideological background of the guy in question. Hell, I don't even think it would be fair to characterize his ideas as "far right" since what he proposes is more or less what will be passed as law once a new government is formed (yeah, I believe that the socialdemocrats will have to try and produce a bussiness friendly climate).

[Omsk]

My hopes were high,i though it was a socialist protest,gues it turned out to be something we all are against.I guess the anti-socialist climate is still strong in Croatia.And im afraid a poissible socialist uprising is impossible,at least,for now.And i just hope the far-right -ist's dont rise to power,we all know how it ended the last time. :( And how bad it was in both countries.

[Thirsty Crow]

And i just hope the far-right -ist's dont rise to power,we all know how it ended the last time. :( And how bad it was in both countries.
That's why I stated I doubt this guy could be termed "far right" within the context of ex-Yugoslavia. He's not a nationalist. He even proposes to legalize marijuana (for the sake of tourism - it seems that, in his head, every facet of social policy is aimed at a fuller reproduction of capital and profits).

[punisa]

I don't think that the entire group of people who protested even know the ideological background of the guy in question. Hell, I don't even think it would be fair to characterize his ideas as "far right" since what he proposes is more or less what will be passed as law once a new government is formed (yeah, I believe that the socialdemocrats will have to try and produce a bussiness friendly climate).

When I mentioned far right I was thinking about tomorrows protest (26.2.2011.) involving certain veteran groups. Not the Pernar guy.

As for what we have seen yesterday, the ideology behind the guy- in the economic terms it is super capitalism.
You could read this and similar comments:
http://zelenapolitika.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/zelite-li-besklasno-drustvo/
(croatian only)

I agree that many people will join protests for all the different reasons.
But I simply have a problem with it (apparently I'm the only one).
How can I go up there against the police while being led by someone who preaches such hate towards communism and socialism?
The moment it outgrows this guy, count me in ! (and that could be very soon from all I've seen)

[punisa]

My hopes were high,i though it was a socialist protest,gues it turned out to be something we all are against.I guess the anti-socialist climate is still strong in Croatia.And im afraid a poissible socialist uprising is impossible,at least,for now.And i just hope the far-right -ist's dont rise to power,we all know how it ended the last time. :( And how bad it was in both countries.

The protests held up to now where led by a group of people aspiring for a more rigid capitalism, a neo-liberal wet dream.
The REAL far right could take place tomorrow.
There is massive protest announced at the main square by war veterans.

I'm seriously having some strong mixed emotions right now.
Should we join this and simply try to perceive it as just the anti-government protests?
My hopes were that this could be a leaderless revolution along the lines of what is happening in north Africa, unfortunately it is not.

[Delenda Carthago]

Well, in case needed, you should know that athens.indymedia.org is a place to attend if you need anything...

[Thirsty Crow]

...so you in Croatia should wait for the elections 'cause Social Democratic Party is winning(it's sure thing) and that's maybe a chance for your country...
So the socialdemocrats are "a chance for my country"? First of all, I'd like to have a chance for my class rather than the capitalist class, and this is the nature of the chance which will be presented once a new government is formed - a chance for capitalists.



I agree that many people will join protests for all the different reasons.
But I simply have a problem with it (apparently I'm the only one). I don't know where did you get this from. I also have a problem with it, I assure you.
But I don't think that the situation is so clear cut, and this would have toi develop further if I were to form a firm opinion and participate in it. But apparently, the guy has been issued a legal prohibition from approaching the site and there is a possibility that protests will no longer be held.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The whole Egypt phenomenon seems to be exclusively an uprising of the Arab states (and certain flair-ups in other regions like Iran and Mauritania). That's not to say that the underlying causes are only Arab ones, though...far from it. The economic conditions that spurred the revolt are present in numerous other countries. But I'm skeptical in regards to how this unrest can be translated into Europe.

[punisa]

Just got back from the main square. It was pretty crazy.
There was about 15,000 war veterans and such. BUT there was a group of facebook activists that clashed with the police not far away.

video:gj-8hqKvAm8

Screw the right wingers, they'll be heading back to their villages soon anyway.
But there is the growing number of REAL anti-government protests.
And these are not led by that lunatic Pernar.
Today was the first time I can say that the group that clashed with the police was a genuine leaderless movement.

[irfanlal]

QUOTE=Menocchio;2033406]So the socialdemocrats are "a chance for my country"? First of all, I'd like to have a chance for my class rather than the capitalist class, and this is the nature of the chance which will be presented once a new government is formed - a chance for capitalists.

First I said maybe and second I don't agree with you, but we'll see...and if I can ask you - In which party do you see a chance for your class(please, I would like to see a realistc not an idealistic response from you) ?


as for Pernar guy here's an article abouth him(use Google translate 'cause it's Croatian only)...
http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Hrvatska/tabid/66/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/130585/Default.aspx
according to this article he read Hitler's Mein Kampf and learned much from that book...

punisa, will there be more protests ?

[chegitz guevara]

those of us who are living in ex-yugoslav republics won't see revolution for many more years 'cause we're lazy, stupid and don't give a f*** for those who are poor and almost have nothing to eat and we are only thinking on ourselves..

That's exactly what they said about the Arabs four months ago.

I know, easier said than done.

[chegitz guevara]

Comrades, the communists and anarchists should be fighting against the right for leadership of these demonstrations.

[Omsk]

Comrades, the communists and anarchists should be fighting against the right for leadership of these demonstrations.
Anarchist dont have a chance,anywhere.
While the communists are despised in Croatia.So a double no.
No chance this will beacome a socialist revolution,especially now that the veterans have joined.


those of us who are living in ex-yugoslav republics won't see revolution for many more years 'cause we're lazy, stupid and don't give a f*** for those who are poor and almost have nothing to eat and we are only thinking on ourselves...
What are these lies you are spreading??!You may be sarcrastic,but your statement is horrid at best.Do you know how many honest communist's and socialist live in the part of the EX-YU?Alot of them,but,unfortunately,there is alot of those who oppose them.No matter,a socialistic state will emerge.Time is the only barier.And that barrier will be destroyed when the people understand how much the democrats lied to them and poisoned their minds!Long have they distroyed the national dignity of all of our people,long have they supported monarchist's and ultra-capitalist,not much time has passed and yet they come again!Again they want to build their palaces and castles!But we wont let them!The working people will not let them do it again!Damn them all to hell!

[punisa]

Comrades, the communists and anarchists should be fighting against the right for leadership of these demonstrations.

I know that, but how? :(
It's really hard when there is such a strong animosity towards everything socialist in this country.
I tried to promote a more broad view of worker solidarity, a leaderless revolution.
But yeah... I have no media time :glare:

[Dimmu]

I know that, but how? :(
It's really hard when there is such a strong animosity towards everything socialist in this country.
I tried to promote a more broad view of worker solidarity, a leaderless revolution.
But yeah... I have no media time :glare:
Some Croatians i know said the same thing. They said that socialist have no chance at least in Croatia.. Sad

[mau123]

Obama supports protests in Croatia:

http://newsflavor.com/world/europe/obama-croatian-protesters-are-not-hooligans-they-are-desperate-youth-and-i-support-them/

[mau123]

Obama supports protests in Croatia.
http://newsflavor.com/world/europe/obama-croatian-protesters-are-not-hooligans-they-are-desperate-youth-and-i-support-them/

[punisa]

Some Croatians i know said the same thing. They said that socialist have no chance at least in Croatia.. Sad

There are many reasons for this, but yes - unfortunately all of them are true.
1) catholic church in Croatia is very anti-socialist
2) huge war veteran population (500,000 out of 4,5 million population) that is predominately far right
3) a dominant ideology that Croatia has been oppressed by "communism" for 50 years
4) hyper nationalism

So the question is - what is to be done?
Who to support and what to do at this point?
The pressure is mounting and people are out on the streets again, each time increasing in numbers.

[Omsk]

So the question is - what is to be done?
Wait for new generations,those who have been poisoned by hate by Ex-yu civil war leaders wont make progress.

Who to support and what to do at this point?
Wait,and as always,work harder.Im hoping for some changes in the SPS.

The pressure is mounting and people are out on the streets again, each time increasing in numbers.
All these people gather for a reason (toppling of the new governments),a reason we would support,but the ideology that follows is unacceptable.

For a socialist change is to happen,the following factors are crucial:
1.A new generation,a generation not poisoned by nationalism and marked by the war.
2.New men in politics.
3.A social structure change.
4.Party policies change.
5.Some time.Time heal's all wounds.

[Dimmu]

Lets hope that socialism will get stronger in the future generations. I am hopeful.

[Thirsty Crow]

First I said maybe and second I don't agree with you, but we'll see...and if I can ask you - In which party do you see a chance for your class(please, I would like to see a realistc not an idealistic response from you) ?

You'd like to see a realistic response with regard to the mainstream bourgeois political parties and the opportunities they will present workers with?
I don't see any of those parties as political agents which will bring about a kind of a welfare state (that would mean serious concessions and a betterment for workers' conditions of work and living conditions) or any other significant improvements for the working class.

The chance for the working class rests in developing its own independent organizations, as well as in a potential reorganization of existing unions with their bureaucracy which cripples struggle.

[Luís Henrique]

So the question is - what is to be done?
Who to support and what to do at this point?

Discuss and organise around working class concerns. Wages, labour hours, hierarchy and repression within workplaces.


The pressure is mounting and people are out on the streets again, each time increasing in numbers.

Go together, with banners and slogans underlining working class concerns. There is a dictatorship in your workplace, remember this.

Luís Henrique

[mau123]

http://www.vecernji.hr/slika-640x348/vijesti/prosvjednici-pred-hrt-om-skandiraju-hloverka-odlazi-slika-311804


330,000 unemployed,70,000 without salary
Capitalism no thanks !!!

[Thirsty Crow]

Apparently, this sequence of protests have taken an interesting turn. I don't think that it is possible to talk of a pro-capitalist action after these changes.
Students organized around the initiative for free public education are taking part more and more.
I'll probably have more information this evening. But nevertheless, it seems to me that it is important to keep going. See you there tommorrow.

[Reznov]

Awesome news. Good luck with this. If the government there happens to be toppled, what do you think could take its place ?

The E.U. comes in as a stabilizing force of peace and democracy and reinstates the old with new faces.

[Omsk]

Croatia is not some 3-world backwater country that can be 'hijacked' like that.
http://www.kurir-info.rs/planeta/komunisti-ruse-hdz-78352.php
Communist activity! (The article is on Serbian,sorry.)

[Os Cangaceiros]

MASA statement about the protests: http://libcom.org/news/masa-masses-against-ruling-class-05032011

Commentary from an anarcho-syndicalist about the protest in Zagreb: http://libcom.org/news/masses-have-taken-streets-06032011

I wish Jurko (a MASA member) still posted on this board.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Interesting article on Croatian politics:


The astonishing lack of international media coverage of protests across Croatia this past week has drawn attention to the growing domestic discourses on ‘protest’ ‘stability’ and ‘order’ in the Balkan region.

For the past six days, citizens all over Croatia have been demonstrating every other day in cities across the country, demanding the resignation of the current ruling government coalition. Though the protests originally started as a gathering of war veterans, bolstered by the appearance of several right-wing politicians and celebrities, the war veterans themselves have become fractionalized along the issue of support for the current ruling conservative HDZ (Croatian Democratic Union) government. The seemingly trivial fractioning of this consistently HDZ-voting bloc though has opened the floodwaters to a questioning of the political programs of an entire spectrum of political parties in this very small yet very corrupt Balkan state.

Since Saturday, the veterans have been joined by unemployed workers – those both with and without postgraduate degrees, farmers, fishermen, pensioners, students, left-wing politicians such as Damir Kajin and Dragutin Lesar, and a slew of disenfranchised citizens to protest not only the actions of the ruling government, but the very way that government and citizens have engaged each other in the years since the end of the war in 1995. In an act of defiance towards the entire class of ruling elites, protesters on Wednesday night burned both the flag of the ruling HDZ party, as well as the flag of the main opposition SDP (Social Democratic Party of Croatia).

etc

http://thoughtsoncroatianprotests.blogspot.com/2011/03/croatia-manufacturing-politics-of.html

any updates from comrades in Croatia? :confused:

[punisa]

It's a big blend right now. We are expecting + 10,000 people on the streets today. They all have a common request: that the government steps down immediately and elections take place.

I have been in protests for over a week now and they are very peaceful and no big clashes with the police occurred so far.
As I said before... its a big blend, you have everyone from far left to the far right marching together.
It feels rather strange actually.

Still it's remarkable how mainstream world media refuses to cover these, what are they afraid of? An European revolution?

[Os Cangaceiros]

albania protest called (http://www.far.al/1933-8-march-ps?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FarAL+%28F.A.R.+-+Focus+on+Albanian+Reality%29http://www.far.al/1933-8-march-ps?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FarAL+%28F.A.R.+-+Focus+on+Albanian+Reality%29)

[Искра]

I wish Jurko (a MASA member) still posted on this board.
I'm reading the board from time to time I just don't post anymore, because I find it more useful to read to book :) I'm reading Praxis and Raya Dunayevskaya :D

Ok, so someting from me to contribute this discussion. :)

First we need to clear few things.
Even this protests where called by one idiot guy called Ivan Pernar, who is extreme right wing lunatic with confusing economical program (mixture between right libertarian shit and nationalisation of banks - yeah I know it don't make any sense), people don't follow him, people don't like him and people don't care about him. In Zagreb demostrations are spontanious and liderless.

This is demostrations show peoples anger, so since people of Croatia are on the streets these demostrations are not left nor right wing. They are full of different folks. In Zagreb and Rijeka we have demostrations every second day.

In Zagreb marginal right wing parties are trying to inflitrate into this fight so that they can take credit. All demostrations started on one squer in 18:00 where people used to listen some idiots screaming some reactionary stuff and then we started to walk. There was never much people there in 18:00 because they didn't want to listen to crap. People used to join the demostrations when we started to walk.

Demostrations don't have place and we walk trought the city and scream. We went to politicians homes, because in Croatia it's forbbiden to protest on squear where government is.

So far we had 10 prostest in Zagreb. MASA (Network of Anarcho-Syndicalists) supports this all from 3rd protest because first two were marked by hooliganism and right wing (ustasha) crap. Here's article on this subject: http://masa-hr.org/content/%C5%A1ablonska-satira-re%C5%BEimskih-budala (only in Croatian).

MASA members participate in demonstrations in Zagreb, Rijeka, Split, Zadar and Pula. We didn’t participate in Varaždin and Osijek. I’m member of MASA from Zagreb and I’ll write mostly about Zagreb but I won’t describe you what happened every day – just few most important things which happened yesterdays.

Zagreb
Yesterday there was the best demo so far (10th in the row). We went with the students and our block had 4 banners. There was 8-10 meters long banner with “GENERAL STRIKE!” on it and the rest of banners were against EU, capitalism and for direct democracy.

http://www.jutarnji.hr/multimedia/archive/00378/prosv3__14__378145S0.jpg

During these days we had really big troubles with right wingers and political opportunists both from major and from marginal parties (mostly right). They tried to take the protest and use it for their own purposes. Because of that there were a lot of Croatian flags and patriotic songs. One guy called Dean Golubić, from marginal right wing party called National Democrats, even brought some kind of big flaming crosses... and there were guys from right wing association called “NOT IN THE EU - I LOVE CROATIA”. Still, it’s important to emphasise that all these groups represent really organised minority of protestors. There are thousands and thousands of people involved into these demonstrations, which are spontaneous, unorganised and without leaders... Right wingers can mobilise 50 people but still they were always running to the front and their leader Golibić is always screaming on bullhorn telling people where to go. People don’t listen ;)

These right wingers are bad, not just because they are primitive nationalist scum, but because they are turning people off the demonstrations. Last night students (+ MASA) manage to take the front from them and to lead people on some better locations than homes of politicians – on the unions, bank etc. Even on drunk guy started to sing internationale...
The problems with these demonstrations are the fact that they are not growing or becoming more radical and the fact that they are every second day so people are getting tired. We need to do something about this question.

If you remember that idiot Pernar who started all of this, you would be happy to know that he’s politically dead and that there are no more speeches at the beginning of the demonstrations.

Here's MASA's banner from yesterdays:

http://www.h-alter.org/img/repository/2011/03/web_image/antivlada-12.3.-180.jpg
Our banner goes: We want work and selfmenadge it.
This is parody on yellow unions banners which goes: we want work and live from our work.

Rijeka
Regarding libertarian communism and stuff the most interesting development is in Rijeka where MASA’s local group together with students and some leftists’ formed organisation called “Libertarian block”. That group is just for the purpose of organising these demonstrations. They manage to attract 300 people and they are only organisers in Rijeka, which means – red and black flags all over the place. Together with some other people interested in protests they now formed something called “Coordination of Demonstrations – Rijeka”. They forbid everyone to go out in public with their name or with emblems of parties and only allowed symbols are red and black flags and Croatian national flag which no one uses anymore.

Usefull stuff I put on libcom.org:
http://libcom.org/news/masa-masses-against-ruling-class-05032011
http://libcom.org/news/masses-have-taken-streets-06032011
http://libcom.org/news/1-little-2-little-10000-little-indians-07032011

Other usefull stuff on Croatian you can find here: http://masa-hr.org/category/tema/prosvjedi

Libertarian block: http://slobodarski-blok.blogspot.com/

[punisa]

.
The problems with these demonstrations are the fact that they are not growing or becoming more radical and the fact that they are every second day so people are getting tired. We need to do something about this question.

If you remember that idiot Pernar who started all of this, you would be happy to know that he’s politically dead and that there are no more speeches at the beginning of the demonstrations.

Glad you joined the discussion.
Yes, this is a big problem. Marching the city streets for 3-4 hours every other day is becoming too much.
I have been in 5 of the demos so far, but missed the last one... I'm just too damn tired :laugh:

The other problem - if you don't join the protests in time (around 18:00) you'll probably miss them since nobody knows where they will be going.
I had comrades who worked till 20:00 and couldn't get to us since we already marched all the way to the TV station.

Spring is coming and the temperatures are up, why not just hold a square? Like Zrinjevac or trg Republike?

The biggest problem - the number is not growing and it is not becoming radicalized.
There is big lack of worker involvement, so the whole thing starts to look as a peaceful hippy parade (not good).

The potential is STILL here, but if we don't do something about it, it might die out rather soon.

I had an idea - since everyone (left, right, apolitical etc) has the same demand - elections, why not call them?
Let's say we all rally behind a people chosen date (something soon), like 25.6?
And refuse to have a date brought down by the parliament.
Yeah, I know .. it's not very revolutionary, but considering the type of people in these protests it might be the next best thing :lol:

As for that right wing lunatic Pernar.. he is jumping in and out of focus now. Yesterday (17.3) he was rather influential and led protests all the way.

[Искра]

Spring is coming and the temperatures are up, why not just hold a square? Like Zrinjevac or trg Republike?
If you do that you'll need to have someone to talk which is bad.


There is big lack of worker involvement, so the whole thing starts to look as a peaceful hippy parade (not good).
No movement = no radicalisation.
I think that this demostrations are quite ok and that they are the best we can have so far. I don't expect much.
Radicalisation is in the banners.


I had an idea - since everyone (left, right, apolitical etc) has the same demand - elections, why not call them?
I don't wanna elections.


As for that right wing lunatic Pernar.. he is jumping in and out of focus now. Yesterday (17.3) he was rather influential and led protests all the way.
That's not true. There were few people so he manadge to come to first row. That didn't happen yesterday (19.03).

[Искра]

New stuff from MASA:
http://libcom.org/library/we-want-work-manage-our-work

[chegitz guevara]

Once again, the masses show that they are out ahead of the vanguard.

Catch up, comrades. :D

[Искра]

Well I'm not a vanguard :D

[punisa]

That's not true. There were few people so he manadge to come to first row. That didn't happen yesterday (19.03).

But it for sure happened yesterday... (23.3).
Reason why some of us decided to actually leave the protests half way.
I have a question if you have been there yesterday - what's with all the right wingers and how did they turn out in such a large number? Virtually the whole front was occupied by them - including those lunatics that started to kiss the crucifix (yuck !).
And the way that greeted Perner shouting his name and kissing him was grotesque to watch.

[Искра]

But it for sure happened yesterday... (23.3). I don't agree.
People are not there to follow Pernar but to express their anger. He's not leading anyone. He is trying to be in that position and the media puts him in it, but people are not there because of him and he's not the reasion for mobilisation of people.


Reason why some of us decided to actually leave the protests half way.
If you leave the protest you are giving it to right wing idiots.


I have a question if you have been there yesterday - what's with all the right wingers and how did they turn out in such a large number? Virtually the whole front was occupied by them - including those lunatics that started to kiss the crucifix (yuck !).
Of course I have been. I was under red and black banner.

Large numbers? I don't see large numbers and I'm there every day.
If you are going on demos during the week then you'll find less "normal" people and more politicaly organised right wing indiots. That is true. But if you go on weekends then you'll see masses. Right wingers are trying to moblise their idiots to take over the "week demos", because they know that people don't like them and don't give a shit for them on "weekends demos".

Also, a lot of "left" people are making to big drama. Like you. There was just one lunatic who kissed crucifix, but there was also one lunatic who was singing "druže Tito mi ti se kunemo".

1:1

If "the left" don't come on demos with the banners and if we don't make noise - right wingers will prevail ;)


And the way that greeted Perner shouting his name and kissing him was grotesque to watch.
He wasn't kissing him :D He tried to kick the devil out of Pernar :D :D It was about exorcism :D :D :D

[Искра]

http://libcom.org/news/croatia-what-has-been-accomlished-so-far-24032011

[punisa]

Along the lines of what I have been saying before - the protests this Saturday dropped from 12,000 (previous Saturday) to only about 1,000.
The underlying element for this is the strong sense that demos are hijacked - I can confirm that a rather large group of people will not be joining the protests anymore because of the reason.
Quoting one participant: "It hardly makes sense anymore. We tried damn hard, but the large majority of the people decided to simply sit home by the TV."

This is rather unfortunate, it's as if the momentum is dying out - but the question is why? cause obviously the reasons why it all started are still here.

The wannabe leaders are a small tiny minority, but they managed to chase away quite a few peaceful protesters from even showing up.