Left issues and more Hamburg elections pressure (German video)

[Die Neue Zeit]

Die Linke's de facto party leader has made a plea for left pressure regarding policy change in the upcoming Hamburg elections:

zpYQm_Bq-UI

http://www.youtube.com/user/linksfraktion#p/u/12/zpYQm_Bq-UI

Everything from Afghanistan to a national minimum wage to public education to progressive taxation is addressed in this brief video.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Congratulations is in order for the electoral performance by Die Linke in Hamburg.

[Mather]

Here is a list of the results:

Social Democratic Party (SPD): 49.5%

Christian Democratic Union (CDU): 20.5%

Free Democrat Party (FDP): 6.5%

Green Party: 11.5%

Left Party (Die Linke): 7%

[Savage]

what are the politics of Die Linke?

[Mather]

what are the politics of Die Linke?

Die Linke was formed in 2007 through the merger of the Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS) and the Labour and Social Justice – The Electoral Alternative (WASG). The PDS was formed by former members of the Socialist Unity Party (SED), the former ruling 'communist' party of the former German Democratic Republic (East Germany). The WASG was made up of leftist defectors from the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD), led by Klaus Ernst and Oskar Lafontine who was finance minister (1998-1999) under the government of Gerhard Schröder.

Most of the factions/internal caucuses of Die Linke are ex-communists, democratic socialists and a few Trotskyist groupings.

[Delenda Carthago]

"de facto" leader?

[Delenda Carthago]

Here is a list of the results:

Social Democratic Party (SPD): 49.5%

Christian Democratic Union (CDU): 20.5%

Free Democrat Party (FDP): 6.5%

Green Party: 11.5%

Left Party (Die Linke): 7%
Is this a rise? A fall? how much %?Which parts/parties of DieLinke are stronger over there?

[zimmerwald1915]

Is this a rise? A fall? how much %?Which parts/parties of DieLinke are stronger over there?
It stayed about the same. Die Linke had 8 seats in the last Bürgerschaft, and will have 8 seats in this one. It got 6.6% of the vote last election, and 6.4% in this one. Dunno about factions.

[Widerstand]

The voting results are fucked up, but were to be expected. The SPD has an absolute majority, though it's pretty small (I think they have like 64 seats and need 61 to form a government).


Die Linke was formed in 2007 through the merger of the Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS) and the Labour and Social Justice – The Electoral Alternative (WASG). The PDS was the former ruling 'communist' party of the former German Democratic Republic (East Germany) and the WASG was made up of leftist defectors from the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD), led by Klaus Ernst and Oskar Lafontine who was finance minister (1998-1999) under the government of Gerhard Schröder.

Most of the factions/internal caucuses of Die Linke are ex-communists, democratic socialists and a few Trotskyist groupings.

First of, the PDS was not the former ruling party of East Germany, but a successor to it (the PDS is not the SED).

Second (regarding the bolded part): If you count all the commie factions together, you will get maybe 4000, at most 6000 commie members. Die Linke has around 77.000 members. The majority of Die Linke members are frustrated Social Democrats (former SPD members) and a few from other parties. Same with their voters I believe.

Die Linke's politics are pretty much like what the SPD's politics were before the SPD took a turn to neoliberalism in the 90s (or maybe it started earlier, IIRC Hamburg's quest to become a stronger business location and "beat" the competing cities started in the 80s, under a SPD government).

It should also be noted that Die Linke was responsible for the eviction of Liebig 14.


Is this a rise? A fall? how much %?Which parts/parties of DieLinke are stronger over there?

It's a rise of 0,6%.

Die Grünen rose 1,9%, the FDP 1,8%, and the SPD 15,4%. The CDU lost 22,1%. (ps: this is operating with numbers from Der Spiegel for the last and from Mather for the current election)

This "pressure" DNZ talks about is mostly confined to the youtube vid he just posted.

[Delenda Carthago]

It stayed about the same. Die Linke had 8 seats in the last Bürgerschaft, and will have 8 seats in this one. It got 6.6% of the vote last election, and 6.4% in this one. Dunno about factions.
So actually, Die Neue Zeit should be mourning for the loss, not celebrating for the victory...

[Delenda Carthago]

The voting results are fucked up, but were to be expected. The SPD has an absolute majority, though it's pretty small (I think they have like 64 seats and need 61 to form a government).



First of, the PDS was not the former ruling party of East Germany, but a successor to it (the PDS is not the SED).

Second (regarding the bolded part): If you count all the commie factions together, you will get maybe 4000, at most 6000 commie members. Die Linke has around 77.000 members. The majority of Die Linke members are frustrated Social Democrats (former SPD members) and a few from other parties. Same with their voters I believe.

Die Linke's politics are pretty much like what the SPD's politics were before the SPD took a turn to neoliberalism in the 90s (or maybe it started earlier, IIRC Hamburg's quest to become a stronger business location and "beat" the competing cities started in the 80s, under a SPD government).

It should also be noted that Die Linke was responsible for the eviction of Liebig 14.


As far as I know, DieLinke was behind the FAU situation in 2008 too,right?

[Widerstand]

It's a rise of 0,6%.

Die Grünen rose 1,9%, the FDP 1,8%, and the SPD 15,4%. The CDU lost 22,1%. (ps: this is operating with numbers from Der Spiegel for the last and from Mather for the current election)

Okay according to official office's numbers (in % of votes):

Die Linke: 6,4 (+/- 0,0)
Die Grünen: 11,2 (+1,6)
FDP: 6,6 (+1,8)
Piraten: 2,1 (+1,9)
CDU: 21,9 (-20,7)
SPD: 48,3 (+14,2)

but also:

NPD: 0,9% (DVU got 0,8% in the last elections, DVU and NPD merged since then).

Allowed voters: 1.254.638.
Voter turnout: 57%.
Spoiled ballots: 23.759 of 691.879

[Delenda Carthago]

So NPD failed hard,right?

[zimmerwald1915]

So NPD failed hard,right?
Per usual, yes.

[Widerstand]

As far as I know, DieLinke was behind the FAU situation in 2008 too,right?

Berlin was under a coalition of SPD and PDS since 2002 (ergo of SPD and Die Linke since 2007). So yes, they were in government in Berlin and part of the senate when the senate denied the FAU the right to call itself a union and when the whole Cinema Babylon conflict happened.

[Delenda Carthago]

I wonder what DNZ, who I think is an honest leftist, has to say about all these.

[Widerstand]

I wonder what DNZ, who I think is an honest leftist, has to say about all these.

Dude he's a caesarist...

[Delenda Carthago]

Dude he's a caesarist...
lol, even so, I would like to hear what someone from DieLinke has to answer to all these...

[Widerstand]

Yeah I'd be interested as well.

Anyway, in retrospective, I must say I'm pretty happy that my faction, the non-voters, had a clear victory in this election with a whopping 43% of all votes, way more than the laughable 27,5% of the SPD.

In any case, here is a statement published by the Recht auf Stadt network yesterday evening:


The voters appear mature. Hamburg voted.

Today are elections in Hamburg. It's 19:00 and the first estimates are coming in. The CDU in Hamburg got a huge slap from the voters, according to Spiegel Online: Christoph Ahlhaus gave his fraction the biggest historical loss in the whole nation: The CDU loses more than 50% of their voters. Die "Grünen" scored slightly better than last time. Profiteer of this situation is the SPD, which got the win handed over for free. It seems as if the SPD can rule Hamburg on their own from now on.

I've stayed true to my principles and didn't vote. Nonetheless I'm watching the political happening with interest.

The CDU imploded over the resignation of von Beust.
The short era "Ahlhaus" stands for scandals and dilettantism. After mayor Ole von Beust stepped back, started the "Christoph Ahlhaus" epoch. The imported hardliner had to be styled softer through media first. For weeks Hamburg's press didn't report anything but Christoph Ahlhaus feeding ducks. Within a couple of weeks, the ruler loyal Hamburger papermachinery transformed the proud fraternity member into a nice teddy bear.

The CDU couldn't set up personal from their own rows. They imported more or less shiny persons which later lost their glimmer, just like football clubs. It all started with the Iranian Ian Karan, Economy Senator, who first got attention for holding the wrong speech. Following that was a faked CV. In the end he was entwined in a dirty scandal and accused of lying and covering up the bankruptcy of celebrity restaurant "Insel".

When Finance Senator Michael Freytag stepped down over the HSH Nordbank crisis at the start of March, the fraction is already in free fall in my opinion. At the end nobody even noticed the CDU setbacks. Even when the court investigated against Finance Senator Carsten Frigge, another questionable import, fraction members desperately clanged to the claims of innocence. Members of Hamburg's LKA raided the private residence of the politician in May.

Regicide doesn't pay out: The inglorious role of Die "Grünen".
Very noteworthy was the role of GALL in the corruption circus. The small coalition partner had a lot of fitting occasions to cancel the coalition after the resignation of von Beust. But they didn't!

They only cancelled as they felt an upcurrent in nation-wide surveys. The person Carsten Frigge was just a trigger in Reality. The break of the coalition only happened for power-calculative reasons. Something like a "green" conscious hasn't been dared for ages in the first rows of the megalomaniac small coalition-partner. The way I see it, Die "Grünen" are the party which completed the process of corruption fastest of all.

There is hope: The voter is mature.
The poker game obviously didn't pay out for Anja Hajduk and consorts. As it seems, the party elite of GALL fucked up in the power-Monopoly and took a ticket into the opposition: "Go directly to prison, don't pass LOS".

For the first time ever I witness a coalition fooling the voters being punished as hard by those voters.

Although I'm not having any illusion with a SPD government, especially not in environmental or sustainability issues, the results are exciting. It shows that the voters see through the games and doesn't let themselves be fooled by ad agency campaigns. It would be good for Hamburg if the new government recognized this and stuck to their promises.

If not, we will see the next implosion in a couple of years. The last SPD disaster five years ago should still resonated well in the comrade's stomaches.

[Die Neue Zeit]

"de facto" leader?

Despite being only the chair of the Bundestag faction, Gysi is the de facto party leader. He gets the most speaking time, and the two "co-chairs" are also parliamentary deputies under him.


Second (regarding the bolded part): If you count all the commie factions together, you will get maybe 4000, at most 6000 commie members. Die Linke has around 77.000 members. The majority of Die Linke members are frustrated Social Democrats (former SPD members) and a few from other parties. Same with their voters I believe.

You know, there is such a thing as a bourgeois workers party.


Die Linke's politics are pretty much like what the SPD's politics were before the SPD took a turn to neoliberalism in the 90s (or maybe it started earlier, IIRC Hamburg's quest to become a stronger business location and "beat" the competing cities started in the 80s, under a SPD government).

Not quite.

Die Linke's politics are more similar to the SPD's Heidelberg program, before the Godesberg program.


It should also be noted that Die Linke was responsible for the eviction of Liebig 14.


I wonder what DNZ, who I think is an honest leftist, has to say about all these.


lol, even so, I would like to hear what someone from DieLinke has to answer to all these...

Depends on the faction of the party.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Anyway, in retrospective, I must say I'm pretty happy that my faction, the non-voters, had a clear victory in this election with a whopping 43% of all votes, way more than the laughable 27,5% of the SPD.


Spoiled ballots: 23.759 of 691.879

Yeah, because it's good that there are so many abstentions and so few spoiled ballots when there are clear avenues for spoiled ballot campaigns. If at least you don't take advantage of these, you can't complain. :rolleyes:

[Widerstand]

Despite being only the chair of the Bundestag faction, Gysi is the de facto party leader. He gets the most speaking time, and the two "co-chairs" are also parliamentary deputies under him.

A leader position which he inherited from good ol' Oskar.



You know, there is such a thing as a bourgeois workers party.

Just like there is such a thing as Caesarian Socialism.



Depends on the faction of the party.

So basically, since the communists are a small minority, Die Linke is bound to have shitty politics. Thank you for confirming that supporting Die Linke is worthless.

[Die Neue Zeit]

A leader position which he inherited from good ol' Oskar.

Oskar Lafontaine was also a party co-chair, not just the parliamentary co-chair at the time.

I refer you to Engels and Lenin about "bourgeois labour parties."


So basically, since the communists are a small minority, Die Linke is bound to have shitty politics. Thank you for confirming that supporting Die Linke is worthless.

And what about the democratic socialists, the participatory socialists, etc. and others who, like Oskar Lafontaine, are for "We want to overthrow capitalism"?

[Widerstand]

Yeah, because it's good that there are so many abstentions and so few spoiled ballots when there are clear avenues for spoiled ballot campaigns. If at least you don't take advantage of these, you can't complain. :rolleyes:

Why bother spoiling a ballot? To "send a sign"? To whom?

[Widerstand]

I refer you to Engels and Lenin about "bourgeois labour parties."

Well what did they say about them?



And what about the democratic socialists, the participatory socialists, etc. and others who, like Oskar Lafontaine, are for "We want to overthrow capitalism"?

Well I could give less of a fuck about "democratic" or "participatory" socialists, whatever the fuck those are. And yes, what about Lafontaine. What has he ever done except talk alot and spit empty phrases while enjoying the membership fees? Lafontaine was always a reformist politician, he's never been a revolutionary.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Why bother spoiling a ballot? To "send a sign"? To whom?

It's the act of organizing that gets things going. There you can spread the message more easily.

[Mather]

First of, the PDS was not the former ruling party of East Germany, but a successor to it (the PDS is not the SED).

I knew that, but was very tired when I wrote that and forgot.

Thanks for pointing it out and I have now re-edited my post.


Second (regarding the bolded part): If you count all the commie factions together, you will get maybe 4000, at most 6000 commie members. Die Linke has around 77.000 members. The majority of Die Linke members are frustrated Social Democrats (former SPD members) and a few from other parties. Same with their voters I believe.

That explains their reformism and their social democratic party programme.


It should also be noted that Die Linke was responsible for the eviction of Liebig 14.

Who/What are the Liebig 14?

[Mather]

Yeah, because it's good that there are so many abstentions and so few spoiled ballots when there are clear avenues for spoiled ballot campaigns. If at least you don't take advantage of these, you can't complain.

Electoralism, social democracy and reformism have failed and weakened the working class throughout history, not just in Germany but in every other country, sometimes with horrific and bloody consequences as in Chile 1973. So it puzzles me as to why you still think this is something the working class movement should participate in.


And what about the democratic socialists, the participatory socialists, etc. and others who, like Oskar Lafontaine, are for "We want to overthrow capitalism"?

Again I am mystified as to your line of thinking when you call Oskar Lafontine, a reformist bourgeois politician, a revolutionary anti-capitalist.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Spoiled ballot campaigns aren't electoral. :glare:

[Mather]

Spoiled ballot campaigns aren't electoral.

Technically true, but then are they relevant?

In terms of 'sending a message' what difference does it make to either abstain or spoil ballot papers?

[Widerstand]

Who/What are the Liebig 14?

A leftist squat and housing project in Berlin's Liebigstraße 14 (25 people lived there), which got evicted at the start of February. The eviction was asked for by the property owner, but ultimately it was the Berlin governments decision (which consists of SPD and Die Linke) if and how to react - and they send 2500 cops, basically killed press freedom and strongly repressed and harassed sympathizers all throughout the day. In response to the eviction, severe riots happened in Berlin (causing more than one million € property damage), with solidarity actions all throughout Germany and in various other places of the world (Oslo, Copenhagen, Peru, according to some reports Japan): http://www.revleft.com/vb/liebig-14-eviction-t149315/index.html?t=149315

What AttackGr talked about is even more gross though. The Anarcho-Syndicalist union had it's right to call itself "union" taken away in Berlin, which is an effectual union ban. This is overturned now, but initially the court decision was confirmed by Berlin senate (in which Die Linke rules with the SPD):

http://libcom.org/news/urgent-call-international-solidarity-fau-berlin-banned-union-19122009 and http://www.fau.org/verbot/en

[resurgence]

Well what did they say about them?.

Your question should be was what they said about them back than of any relevance to the situation in Germany today?

[Widerstand]

Your question should be was what they said about them back than of any relevance to the situation in Germany today?

That would have been my next question.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The eviction was asked for by the property owner, but ultimately it was the Berlin governments decision (which consists of SPD and Die Linke) if and how to react - and they send 2500 cops, basically killed press freedom and strongly repressed and harassed sympathizers all throughout the day.

[...]

The Anarcho-Syndicalist union had it's right to call itself "union" taken away in Berlin, which is an effectual union ban. This is overturned now, but initially the court decision was confirmed by Berlin senate (in which Die Linke rules with the SPD)

Again, it depends on the faction.

I think the Draft Program needs amendments further left, but on the question of coalitions (pages 38 and 39), that should be the finalized version (if not turned further left) and enforced so as to force the Ossi coalitionists into opposition.

[Delenda Carthago]

Again, it depends on the faction.

I think the Draft Program needs amendments further left, but on the question of coalitions (pages 38 and 39), that should be the finalized version (if not turned further left) and enforced so as to force the Ossi coalitionists into opposition.
Teaming up with the State to attack revolutionaries is a matter that "it depends on the faction"?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Yeah, beat back the coalitionists. They're bound to go back into opposition according to the polls, so maximize their beating, by either affirming or turning left Oskar Lafontaine's Draft Program and finalizing it.

[Widerstand]

Teaming up with the State to attack revolutionaries is a matter that "it depends on the faction"?

That's why I will never understand how leftists could think it's a good tactic to take the side of state-institutions. Antifascists don't join Nazi groups either.

It also tells a lot of those who are in charge in Die Linke, and on how revolutionary the party itself is.

[resurgence]

Parlimentary politics is a cushy career that gives some people a badly needed ego boost. Often small but sucessful in elections left wing parties attract people who like to have the feel of power but no given their limited abilities they are better off being big fish in small ponds as they say. I guess you can call me cynical but lets face it, who in western Europe isnt cynical about parlimentary politics outside of deluded idealogical liberals?