Can socialism be a religion?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Can it be legitimate to regard socialism as a religion or as a substitute for a religion? I feel this is more complicated than it might sound. I know Marx said "the criticism of religion is the root of all criticism" and there's his ICHPL, "heart of a heartless world" etc.

Socialism can be and has been used as a religion in the negative sense, as a metaphysical entity to keep people doped up, "diamat" in the fSU. On the positive side socialism, like religion, gives people hope for the future, something to believe in, and even provides a sense of personal identity.

Several things brought this idea to mind. I have noticed when I first began doing activism with my organization, after a time I felt a need to do it each week. It was fun, fulfilling, and as cheesy as it sounds it began to form or influence my own personal identity. I suddenly realized that socialism for me fit the same need that going to church each week did for friends and family members who are religious. This thought actually wieided me out somewhat.

Taking this a bit further-I'm an atheist but I find myself fascinated by religious ritual, theology, and comparative religions.At different times I've devoured the Joseph Campbell books and most of Karen Armstrong.I cannot believe in an imaginary friend who's watching out for me, that's a pretty repulsive idea but there is something to the "Principle of Hope" of the Marxist philosopher Ernst Bloch.I'm also fascinated by the "god builder" movement of Gorky, Lunachevsky, etc. although Lenin thought they were loopy.

What would take the place of religion in a socialist society? Is it okay to be "religious" about socialism?

I have a "spiritual" side, however one may define this but I find I hate religiosity.

Sorry if this comes out a bit rambling, these are just some thoughts I've been, well,.....thinking.

[hatzel]

To be honest, I've always consider Jung's claims of the human psyche being naturally 'religious' to be true. In my studies of comparative religion, I never really thought to differentiate sharply between what we call 'religion', and non-religious things like veganism, socialism, philosophy, sometimes even science! Yes, I know the last one is controversial, but I do believe that the pursuit of scientific knowledge is our way of filling that 'religion'-shaped hole in our mind. To be honest, as I've said a few times on these forums, I find 'religion' itself to be a pretty stupid word with no meaning, other than what we have declared to be a religion and what not. Beyond that...there's no blueprint for what is and isn't religion, it's not like a flower or a door were we can make a definitive list of characteristics the item must have to be classified as something or not...

Really, it all becomes the same thing for me. If we take Christianity as a religion, and compare it to veganism...well, there's cross-over. I know a good few people who are vegan animal-liberation types because of the Bible. Genesis 1:29 being the central line, if you're interested. We could say that both constitute some kind of moral code...veganism is a somewhat more narrow moral code, but it often links itself in with feminism and conservationism and tonnes of stuff. And sure, it makes a community, 'I'm vegan!' 'I'm vegan, too!', just like being Christian, and you might meet up with your vegan friends, because vegans always seem to have more vegan friends than everybody else :lol: And socialism does that, 'I'm a socialist, too!', and you hang out together talking about how the world should be, whilst the Christians hang out together and talk about how the world should be, and everything's effectively the same thing, it's all the same desire :) I don't think it's anything strange for socialism to act like a 'religion', because there's a hole in our heads somewhere that wants what religion gives us, and we can fill that with whatever the hell we want, really...

My two cents :)

[Astarte]

Can it be legitimate to regard socialism as a religion or as a substitute for a religion? I feel this is more complicated than it might sound. I know Marx said "the criticism of religion is the root of all criticism" and there's his ICHPL, "heart of a heartless world" etc.

Socialism can be and has been used as a religion in the negative sense, as a metaphysical entity to keep people doped up, "diamat" in the fSU. On the positive side socialism, like religion, gives people hope for the future, something to believe in, and even provides a sense of personal identity.

Several things brought this idea to mind. I have noticed when I first began doing activism with my organization, after a time I felt a need to do it each week. It was fun, fulfilling, and as cheesy as it sounds it began to form or influence my own personal identity. I suddenly realized that socialism for me fit the same need that going to church each week did for friends and family members who are religious. This thought actually wieided me out somewhat.

Taking this a bit further-I'm an atheist but I find myself fascinated by religious ritual, theology, and comparative religions.At different times I've devoured the Joseph Campbell books and most of Karen Armstrong.I cannot believe in an imaginary friend who's watching out for me, that's a pretty repulsive idea but there is something to the "Principle of Hope" of the Marxist philosopher Ernst Bloch.I'm also fascinated by the "god builder" movement of Gorky, Lunachevsky, etc. although Lenin thought they were loopy.

What would take the place of religion in a socialist society? Is it okay to be "religious" about socialism?

I have a "spiritual" side, however one may define this but I find I hate religiosity.

Sorry if this comes out a bit rambling, these are just some thoughts I've been, well,.....thinking.

I do not think Marxian Socialism can be a religion as 1/3 of it (Dialectical Materialism) is devoted to the atheistic perspective... and even attempts like Lunacharsky's God-Buildinghas been met with disapproval by orthodox Marxist-Leninists.

I do believe though, that the only way forward is a synthesis between Marxism/Anarchism and world spirituality.

If you look at pre-modern history you will see that most, if not all, of the peoples' risings and rebellions in the East, and West were heavily influenced by spirituality.

[Imposter Marxist]

lolwut

[hatzel]

lolwut

Insightful post. I'll assume you're replying to the thread title without actually reading any more :rolleyes:

[hatzel]

Anybody who isn't likely to start crying out 'COMMUNISM ISN'T A RELIGION!!! :cursing:' might be interested in Nikolai Berdyaev's The Russian Revolution (http://krotov.info/engl/berdyaev/1931.htm). Inevitably it is the second section, The religion of communism, which might be of most interest :)

[Dimentio]

Can it be legitimate to regard socialism as a religion or as a substitute for a religion? I feel this is more complicated than it might sound. I know Marx said "the criticism of religion is the root of all criticism" and there's his ICHPL, "heart of a heartless world" etc.

Socialism can be and has been used as a religion in the negative sense, as a metaphysical entity to keep people doped up, "diamat" in the fSU. On the positive side socialism, like religion, gives people hope for the future, something to believe in, and even provides a sense of personal identity.

Several things brought this idea to mind. I have noticed when I first began doing activism with my organization, after a time I felt a need to do it each week. It was fun, fulfilling, and as cheesy as it sounds it began to form or influence my own personal identity. I suddenly realized that socialism for me fit the same need that going to church each week did for friends and family members who are religious. This thought actually wieided me out somewhat.

Taking this a bit further-I'm an atheist but I find myself fascinated by religious ritual, theology, and comparative religions.At different times I've devoured the Joseph Campbell books and most of Karen Armstrong.I cannot believe in an imaginary friend who's watching out for me, that's a pretty repulsive idea but there is something to the "Principle of Hope" of the Marxist philosopher Ernst Bloch.I'm also fascinated by the "god builder" movement of Gorky, Lunachevsky, etc. although Lenin thought they were loopy.

What would take the place of religion in a socialist society? Is it okay to be "religious" about socialism?

I have a "spiritual" side, however one may define this but I find I hate religiosity.

Sorry if this comes out a bit rambling, these are just some thoughts I've been, well,.....thinking.

For some people it is.

Most people tend to look at everything from an intentionalist perspective, which serves to allow people to react quickly in pressed situations, but also could lead to over-interpretations.

Therefore, people are likely to develop religious feelings.

[Viet Minh]

When Socialism becomes a poltical religion, its no longer Socialism imo, but a cult, or worse a Dictatorship.

[NGNM85]

In some cases certain brands of socialism (Or, 'socialism.') take on the essential features of religion, and become, essentially, secular religions. This is especially common in the authoritarian varients. The essential features are thus:

Personality Cultism-The elevating of a particular thinker or idealogue to, essentially, superhuman status.

Dogmatism-Elevating a philosophical system or set of beliefs to an all-encompassing meta-narrative, transforming philosophical principles or beliefs to scripture.

Fervor-The emotional resonance of the beliefs, which goes totally beyond rational proportion.

You put those together, you've essentially got a religion. However, this can be said about a number of other philosophies; Nazism is Germany, for example.

[Kotze]

You might be sad about something that happened. Or angry. But this is how the world works, and in the grand scheme of things, it was right that it happened. That you don't understand how this can be right shows exactly how little you understand of the order behind the appearances. You may want to criticize our religion, but you don't know God, you can't understand God, God doesn't want you to picture God, so don't think too hard about this. Heaven awaits if you shut up and work hard.

Sounds reasonable.

You might be sad about something that happened. Or angry. But this is how the world works, and in the grand scheme of things, it had to happen. That you don't understand this had to happen shows exactly how little you understand of the order behind the appearances. You may want to criticize our movement to build Communism, but you can't know what Communism is, you can't understand it as it doesn't exist as of yet, thinking about it would be utopian, and we are scientific. Heaven on earth awaits if you all shut up and work hard.

Nothing wrong with that.

[hatzel]

It's as if you're almost suggesting that the socialist's dream for a better society might be comparable to the Messianic hopes of various religious groups (which many religious socialists conflate as one and the same thing) :)

[ZeroNowhere]

"If Feuerbach wishes to establish a true religion upon the basis of an essentially materialist conception of nature, that is the same as regarding modern chemistry as true alchemy. If religion can exist without its god, alchemy can exist without its philosopher’s stone."

Everything can be a religion. You can be a religion. After all, religion exists, and you also exist.


Several things brought this idea to mind. I have noticed when I first began doing activism with my organization, after a time I felt a need to do it each week. It was fun, fulfilling, and as cheesy as it sounds it began to form or influence my own personal identity. I suddenly realized that socialism for me fit the same need that going to church each week did for friends and family members who are religious. This thought actually wieided me out somewhat.Clearly, heavy metal is a religion.

Metal church, unholy church; who'll be the sacrifice?
Metal church, the only church; don't you know the time is right?
Metal church will find you, you can't run very far,
The metal church inside you,
It knows just who you are.

Of course, just about every political view is also a religion, apparently, and religious people seem to hold political views quite frequently, without having much to replace.


Is it okay to be "religious" about socialism?
The only thing that seems to fit that description is Bernsteinian revisionism as opposed to mechanical Marxism. Revisionism's not okay.


I do not think Marxian Socialism can be a religion as 1/3 of it (Dialectical Materialism) is devoted to the atheistic perspectiveMarx was somewhere along the lines of what may be known as a 'theological noncognitivist', so that religion is not, as it were, a dogmatic belief in anything being the case, because it's not a belief that anything is the case.

[tradeunionsupporter]

In my opinion Socialism is a religion.

[B5C]

The only example of an Socialist state becoming a religion is North Korea.

[Rafiq]

The SU did not use 'Socialism' to dope up people. That's ridiculous. Socialism is a material condition and system.

[#FF0000]

I never really thought to differentiate sharply between what we call 'religion', and non-religious things like veganism, socialism, philosophy, sometimes even science!

"Tiger got to hunt,
Bird got to fly,
Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand."
-Bokonon