The Victims of Stalinism.

[Cassius Clay]

Below are two quotes from two people on another board, I think one of them was a Trotskyite and the other I'm not quite sure what particular ideology he/she had. Anyway here are two quotes which stood out for me.

If you agree with the general point being made here just reply by typing 'Agree', if you disagree just reply with 'Disagree'. I'd appreciate it if this doesn't turn into a flame war, plenty of them around just reply with a one word answer which favors your opinion.

Anyway

''Stalin was a tyrant over the people, who killed (sometimes with inhuman tortures) or starved to death with truly fanatical savagery close to thirty million people.''

And that the USSR was ruled by

''bloodstained criminals, who had killed and rooted out millions of Russia's leading intelligentsia in a wild thirst for blood and exercised the most cruel tyranny of all times.''

[Cassius Clay]

Disagree.

[YKTMX]

Agree. Though 30 million seems a bit much. Millions, not 30 though.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Agree with the first, though I more often hear 20 million than 30 million...
Do not know if second is or is not accurate...

[commie kg]

They're being a bit extreme on the numbers, with the language they worded the statement with, as well.

[Cassius Clay]

I dont mean to sound like I'm trying to boss people around but could we please stick to 'Agree' or 'Disagree'? Thanx.

[YKTMX]

Just put us three down for a couple of "agrees" then. :unsure:

[Invader Zim]

I debated this with you for like 2 hours on saturday... My answer is a definate yes... but only 20 million.

[YKTMX]

Yes, Cassius, what's your point?

[Dirty Commie]

Honestly, I don't know.

There is so much bull shit out there about Stalin, I don't know what to think.

I know he was a murderer, but I don't know how many died in the Gulags. I heard around 15 million. I think the Soviet Union would have been better off with out him, I am NOT A TROTSKYITE but I think Trotsky may have done a better job as Premier.

[Cassius Clay]

So so far that's Four Agree's. One Disagree and One Dont Know.

If we could please keep it to those responses it would help, nevermind if you disagree with the 'numbers' or what have you. Just the general jist of it.

Thankyou.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Disagree

[elijahcraig]

Disagree

[Nobody]

Disgree

Bit hypocritical from someone with my handle though.

[RevolucioN NoW]

Agree (mostly)

[Don't Change Your Name]

Disagree

The number is exagerated. Plus the "bloodstained criminals" seems like a yanqui lie. Yes, we know Stalin was a dictator who loved power but this is an exageration.

[Babylon5 Crusade]

Stalin was an evil dictator. Like your friend Castro. Millions of people died. He killed every person who he believed he was a threat. Thank god he didnt whipe out ever military commander in WWII.

[elijahcraig]

? Stalin tried to make a unified front against Naziism. The US and Great Britain's ruling class supported Hitler and tried to "turn the war against the USSR". Too bad the workers smashed all comers.

[Babylon5 Crusade]

When did US or UK supported Hitler?

Churchhill told the world that Hitler was a threat but no body listen.
FDR spend millions of dollars 1938-1941 to the UK to defend her self from Germany.

FDR read Hitlers book. Mein Kampf. He was in complete shock. And hope Hitler never gain power in Germany.

Shure they were some thousands or millions in the German-American Bund (US version of the Nazi Party.) It never had big support with the avg. American. It was mosly runed by German-Americans.

[elijahcraig]

Of course the average American did not support the nazis, but the ruling class did, not all, but many; many moreso in Great Britain, tories especially. Those who had vested interests in Germany suceeding in securing more profit through imperialism.

FDR didn't support him either of course; he was being called a communist at the time by the Capitalists in America.

Why do you have Joseph McCarthy in your avatar? FDR would spit on that fat bastards ashes.

[Babylon5 Crusade]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2003, 04:55 AM
Why do you have Joseph McCarthy in your avatar? FDR would spit on that fat bastards ashes.
1. He wasnt fat.
2. Would you have this guy as my avatar? :D

[elijahcraig]

1. Yes, he was.
2. I'd rather slit his wrinkled throat.

[Scottish_Militant]

babylon, 2 Winston Churchill quotes for you

On Mussolini

"I could not help being charmed, like so many other people have been, by Signor Mussolini's gentle and simple bearing and by his calm, detached poise in spite of so many burdens and dangers. Secondly, anyone could see that he thought of nothing but the lasting good, as he understood it, of the Italian people, and that no lesser interest was of the slightest consequence to him. If I had been an Italian I am sure that I should have been whole-heartedly with you from the start to finish in your triumphant struggle against the bestial appetites and passions of Leninism. I will, however, say a word on an international aspect of fascism. Externally, your movement has rendered service to the whole world. The great fear which has always beset every democratic leader or a working class leader has been that of being undermined by someone more extreme than he. Italy has shown that there is a way of fighting the subversive forces which can rally the masses of the people, properly led, to value and wish to defend the honour and stability of civilised society. She has provided the necessary antidote to the Russian poison. Hereafter no great nation will be unprovided with an ultimate means of protection against the cancerous growth of Bolshevism."

On Hitler

"The Story of that Struggle cannot be read without admiration for the courage, the perseverance, the vital force which enabled him to challenge, defy, conciliate, or overcome, all authorities or resistance which barred his path…I have always said that if Great Britain were defeated in war, I hoped we should find a Hitler to lead us back to our rightful position among the nations."

[Kapitan Andrey]

Totally agree!!! :angry:

He was a damn-bloodlusty-murderer!!! :angry:

[Cassius Clay]

Please keep the flame war elsewhere and just vote.

So that's seven agrees and five disagree's, the rest I'm not really sure about that's why I suggest you just put down either agree, disagree or dont know. Comeon is that difficult.

[Ian]

My opinion on the quotes? The jury is still out...

[Iron Star]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2003, 07:21 AM
babylon, 2 Winston Churchill quotes for you

On Mussolini

"I could not help being charmed, like so many other people have been, by Signor Mussolini's gentle and simple bearing and by his calm, detached poise in spite of so many burdens and dangers. Secondly, anyone could see that he thought of nothing but the lasting good, as he understood it, of the Italian people, and that no lesser interest was of the slightest consequence to him. If I had been an Italian I am sure that I should have been whole-heartedly with you from the start to finish in your triumphant struggle against the bestial appetites and passions of Leninism. I will, however, say a word on an international aspect of fascism. Externally, your movement has rendered service to the whole world. The great fear which has always beset every democratic leader or a working class leader has been that of being undermined by someone more extreme than he. Italy has shown that there is a way of fighting the subversive forces which can rally the masses of the people, properly led, to value and wish to defend the honour and stability of civilised society. She has provided the necessary antidote to the Russian poison. Hereafter no great nation will be unprovided with an ultimate means of protection against the cancerous growth of Bolshevism."

On Hitler

"The Story of that Struggle cannot be read without admiration for the courage, the perseverance, the vital force which enabled him to challenge, defy, conciliate, or overcome, all authorities or resistance which barred his path…I have always said that if Great Britain were defeated in war, I hoped we should find a Hitler to lead us back to our rightful position among the nations."
Where are these quotes from?

[Vinny Rafarino]

Winston Churchill.

[Babylon5 Crusade]

Yah, but what year? If the quotes were true.

[Saint-Just]

Disagree

[Scottish_Militant]

Where are these quotes from?

The first one is from a speech in Rome on 20 January, 1927. The second is from a publication called 'Great Contemporaries' in 1939

For more info see Ted Grant's 'the menace of fascism' (http://www.tedgrant.org/works/4/8/fascism.html) pamphlet (1948)