SSP

[Legends]

For free, nutritious school meals for all school children in Scotland.

For the abolition of warrant sales.

For a Scottish Service Tax - a fair alternative to the council tax that will make
the rich pay their share.

For decent housing for all - oppose council house sell-offs.

No to privatisation of our public services.

Reform the drugs laws - cut the link with the dealers - legalise cannabis.

No to racism - asylum seekers welcome.

Opposition to war and racism - no to Bush and Blair's wars.

Solidarity with those struggling for justice around the world - in Palestine,
Colombia and many other places.

Do you agree with all the above?

The only one I dont agree with is the Asylum seekers welcome, I feel that before we allow asylum seekers in the country we must be able to help our own people first, we have too many people living in poverty, homelessness is at too high a level.

What are your views on these aims?

[Blackberry]

Before anyone replies, it is necessary to note that they're trotskyists -- or at least they have strong links with the trotskyists in Australia.

[YKTMX]

The only one I dont agree with is the Asylum seekers welcome, I feel that before we allow asylum seekers in the country we must be able to help our own people first, we have too many people living in poverty, homelessness is at too high a level.

That is a very reactionery position. The countrys population is decreasing, we need immigrants to do all sorts of imporant things. There are enough empty houses for the homeless already, it's just that the councils and tennant agencies don't want them or that the people themselves have severe mental or addicition problems. Asylum seekers are the just latest target of the right wing media who like to blame Britains problems on anybody but the British. Defending immigrants is Line 1, Page 1 of being a good socialist.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Neutral [email protected] 9 2003, 12:38 PM
Before anyone replies, it is necessary to note that they're trotskyists -- or at least they have strong links with the trotskyists in Australia.
Yes, Sheridans three main icons are Lenin, Che and Fidel, though he probably not call himself a Trotskyist...not when being interviewed by the Herald anyway, lol.

[Legends]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2003, 12:38 PM
[. Defending immigrants is Line 1, Page 1 of being a good socialist.
Im not saying we shouldnt allow them into our country but I think we should do more for our people who sufer mental or addiction problems before we toss them to the gutter.

The government need to find a way to keep the numbers of Asylum seekers to a comfortable level. at the moment there are too many illegal ones coming through and screwing the system and US.

Plus I am with Blunkett when he says that they shouldnt be allowed in to the UK if they cant even speak a reasonable amount of English.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2003, 12:51 PM

Im not saying we shouldnt allow them into our country but I think we should do more for our people who sufer mental or addiction problems before we toss them to the gutter.

The government need to find a way to keep the numbers of Asylum seekers to a comfortable level. at the moment there are too many illegal ones coming through and screwing the system and US.

but I think we should do more for our people who sufer mental or addiction problems before we toss them to the gutter.

I agree.


The government need to find a way to keep the numbers of Asylum seekers to a comfortable level. at the moment there are too many illegal ones coming through and screwing the system and US.

I fail to see any evidence for this. The only sourves I have heard making this point are the right wing tabloid media and I don't believe a word they say. "Us"? Do you seriuosly think the editor of the Sun, or Rupert Murdoch, or the editor of the Daily Mail really care about "us". No, they are racists, simple as that. And I for one can't side with a racist. If you wanna talk about the countries problems, let's talk about Poverty, domestic violence, drug abuse. Not a bunch of people fleeing tyrannies who have come here with the impression you can improve your life here. Be thankful you were born in Liberal Western "Democracy", not everyone has that oppurtunity.

[Legends]

QUOTE
The government need to find a way to keep the numbers of Asylum seekers to a comfortable level. at the moment there are too many illegal ones coming through and screwing the system and US.


This was just a personal opinion after hearing some of the numbers that are hidden in the back of lorries, I think it topped 300 in less than a week and it is supposed to be going down, its scary when you think about it.

[YKTMX]

This was just a personal opinion after hearing some of the numbers that are hidden in the back of lorries, I think it topped 300 in less than a week and it is supposed to be going down, its scary when you think about it.

Not for me. Our population is falling so I don't see how it could be.

[Legends]

I wasnt actually aware of our population falling so I could be misguided.

[Scottish_Militant]

the SSP are not 'trotskyist' or anything else, they are just a completely reformist party with a strong nationalist core inside them.

These demands that they make are all very well, however, the task of a socialist is to explain that the solution to our problems cannot be found within the borders of capitalism, and that this must be the main struggle of any socialist or communist party.

The SSP do put forward transitional demands as we can see, but with no explinations - this is reformism and not socialism.

I almost joined the SSP when I was 15/16, I'm very glad I didn't. On the surface it looks like they are making good progress, in reality there are whole sections of the party hanging by threads.

Look at this article from last month


CIVIL war has broken out in the Scottish Socialist Party (SSP) over one of its candidates in the Scottish Parliament elections, it emerged last night.

Leaked confidential documents have revealed bitter in-fighting in the Mid Scotland and Fife region over Linda Graham, who narrowly missed out on becoming an MSP. One regional organiser complained about Graham’s "venom" towards other SSP members, while a branch chair accused her allies of acting "like animals".

Graham claimed "reactionaries" in the party had worked to undermine her and called for them to be "driven from our party". The bust-up appears to centre on suggestions that Graham and her supporters are Socialist Workers Party (SWP) members bent on sowing disunity in the SSP. The papers were for an SSP executive committee meeting in June, calling for an internal investigation into problems in Mid Scotland and Fife.

One complaint from regional organiser Jock Penman said Graham had "crossed the line" with an outrageous attack on several party members after her defeat at the polls. He wrote: "Her venom is not just aimed at me, but at other good comrades, even whole branches."

Another complaint from Benarty branch chair Lorna Bett said the infighting had left her "physically sick". She said: "Never in my life have I seen such a vociferous, poisoned bunch of people. I never understood why people were so up in arms about the SWP joining our party. Now I know why."

Bett added: "They were like animals. They really showed their teeth. It was disgusting."

In her personal reflections on the election, Graham accused her opponents of "naked careerism, backstabbing and a personal attack culminating in a vote of no confidence in me weeks before the election".

Commenting on the situation, party leader Tommy Sheridan said: "The SSP now has over 3,000 members and it’s inevitable that the bigger we become the more diverse our membership, and everyone doesn’t always see eye to eye.

"I regret the comments made by Linda but she was probably disappointed at failing to be elected by a mere 126 votes.

"The SSP increased its vote by over 200% but we narrowly missed out in both Mid Scotland and Fife and Highlands and Islands. However I suppose the fact that an internal row now makes the news is a tribute to the development of the SSP as a political force in Scotland.

The party and the executive are well aware of the situation and inquiries are under way."

Graham said: "If there are any problems in the Mid Scotland and Fife region then the Mid Scotland and Fife region will sort them. We don’t really want any press involvement."

Not very encouraging is it? :rolleyes:

[Scottish_Militant]

The only one I dont agree with is the Asylum seekers welcome, I feel that before we allow asylum seekers in the country we must be able to help our own people first, we have too many people living in poverty, homelessness is at too high a level.

What are your views on these aims?

If all immigration laws were scrapped under capitalism then there would be chaos. Under socialism however there would be no propblem, as it is capitalism that causes poverty, homelesness etc.

Again this is where the SSP go wrong, "scrap all immigration" but not one word about acheiving socialism worldwide!

Just to clear up some facts on immigration btw


What's all the song and dance about asylum seekers?

By Mick Brooks


How many of them are there? Last year about 110,000 applied for asylum in Britain. That sounds like a lot. In fact Britain took in less than 2% of the world's refugees last year.


Where are they from? The top three countries most people have fled from are Iraq, Afghanistan and Zimbabwe. Over the last couple of years Britain has helped in military actions to destabilise Afghanistan and Iraq, causing thousands of civilian deaths. Part of the justification for taking action against Saddam in Iraq was the plight of the Iraqi Kurds. How can we then turn round and argue that Kurds are not entitled to asylum? The Daily Mail is full with hate-filled accusations against so-called 'bogus' asylum seekers from countries such as Zimbabwe. At the same time they publicise the misfortunes of the white farmers there and point to Mugabe as a crazed dictator who is wilfully starving his own people. The Mail is consistent only in supporting policies that help the rich.


Are they scroungers? Immigrants put more in to the country than they take out. In the financial year 1999-2000 they contributed £31.2 billion in taxes and took £28.8 billion in benefits. They should be thanked for that extra £2.5 billion.


Have they got their hands in our pockets? Keeping the refugee system going costs each taxpayer 10p per week. We spend six times as much as that on the monarchy. Asylum seekers only get 70% of the usual income support - itself carefully designed to be a minimum subsistence. A single person would have to make do on about £37 per week.


Are we a soft touch? Most of them don't come here. Nearly three quarters of asylum seekers are taken in by poor countries. For instance Iran and Pakistan both took millions of those fleeing from Afghanistan. Even in the European Union we are twelfth lowest (out of fifteen) in taking refugees in proportion to our population.


They're really economic migrants, not genuine asylum seekers, aren't they? The reader is irresistibly reminded of the line from Monty Python's Life of Brian, "He's not the Son of God, he's a very naughty boy." So does that mean it's OK to crucify him, then? Asylum seekers want to work, but most are not allowed to. And it is the case that, as civil strife winds down in countries such as Angola and former Yugoslavia, the arrival of asylum seekers from those parts disappears.


Our duties. Britain has signed up to the 1951 Refugee Convention. We have a responsibility to give shelter to those 'with a well founded fear of persecution'. End of story.


Government policy. Blair is pushing for what are in fact concentration camps to be set up on the borders of the European Union to receive asylum seekers - well away from Britain. Even some of EU partners find this illiberal and distasteful.


The political background. The children of asylum seekers are to be educated separately from everybody else. David Blunkett explains this is so they won't 'swamp' the schools. Blunkett is deliberately pressing the same button Thatcher pushed when she publicly worried about 'us' being swamped by alien cultures. It is racist code.


And also see Asylum Seekers - A Socialist Response (http://www.marxist.com/Europe/asylum_seek_gb.html)

[YKTMX]

If all immigration laws were scrapped under capitalism then there would be chaos.

Not neccessarily true. Britain used to have free immigration from the Commonwealth and it was shown that immigration tends to have highs and lows depending on economics. You should read Paul Foot, he explains the arguments against Immigrations controls very well.