Police Accountability Days Of Action

[Ele'ill]

West Coast Action relay Feb 26th and 27th

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2011/02/406185.shtml

[StalinFanboy]

There was a time when anarchists killed cops.

[Ele'ill]

http://chzmemeafterdark.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/naughty-memes-hes-super-o-g.jpg

[gorillafuck]

There was a time when anarchists killed cops.It got them far.

[Ele'ill]

Movement building first not fetishistic gravitation towards violent spectacle. :thumbup1:

[Niccolò Rossi]

It got them far.

For fuck's sake...

Nic.

[gorillafuck]

For fuck's sake...

Nic.What?

I was being sarcastic.

[Ele'ill]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1317/977727380_b8a5943a64.jpg

[Ele'ill]

http://spokanepoliceabuses.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/boy-confronts-police.jpg

[Niccolò Rossi]

What?

I was being sarcastic.

Oh shit, my bad. Thank god for that. Sarcasm is hard to read written, besides, posting on revleft has gotten me used to expecting this kind of insanity.

Nic.

[StalinFanboy]

It got them far.

to be fair, that can be said about everything communists have done ever.



i'm not really down with, and i think terrorism is problematic, but at least the anarchists who killed cops weren't weiners talking about police accountability or whatever.

[bcbm]

we don't want accountable police, we want no police:(

[Ele'ill]

I also want to point out that if I titled this thread 'Police Abolition Marches' with the related hilarious pictures I'd be putting myself at risk of associating with what police abolition marches actually are here in the PNW, which are lively militant gatherings full of people not knowing how to use fireworks correctly.

Ok all jokes aside, the article uses the language 'police accountability'.

[Ele'ill]

i'm not really down with, and i think terrorism is problematic, but at least the anarchists who killed cops weren't weiners talking about police accountability or whatever.

I'd like to hold those killers responsible in any way I can. Are you suggesting it's the most extreme or nothing at all?

[Ele'ill]

we don't want accountable police, we want no police:(

How do we get there?

[bcbm]

revolute

[Ele'ill]

To roll backwards. :closedeyes:

[StalinFanboy]

How do we get there?

Revolution? I thought that was why we are here...

[nuisance]

How do we get there?
Break windows.

[Hoplite]

I realize I may be digging flaming arrows out of my face for saying this, but I think we need to stop and take a look at the situation.

I admit, I am not familiar with the incident the OP's link talks about and as such I will not comment on it. Rather I want to address the "fuck the police" kind of mentality that seems somewhat prevalent here.

First, cops have probably the worst job in the world. If they do their job well, people complain that they're too omnipresent and that they catch people who speed and write tickets. If they do their job poorly, people complain that they're letting criminals get away and are lazy. No matter what, cops are hated for their jobs. There is NOTHING a cop can do that wont have people wanting him dead or fired. 90% of people act like dicks to cops regardless of the situation.

Second, cops are people. Yes, shocking as this may be, cops are people and make mistakes like the rest of us. No, I'm not trying to insinuate that if an officer kills someone without proper cause that we say "boys will be boys" and move on. But I think demanding perfection then acting indignant when they cant provide it is, at best, a little naive.

Third, cops (usually) protect people like us. If a bunch of us are out there having a rally and a group of people decide they want to attack us, we can call the cops and they will (generally) come out and stop the violence. If our homes are being broken into, we can call them and they will come to take the guy to jail. And yes, I realize that the aforementioned doesn't always happen that way, I live in LA.

I've been dealing with cops for years and I'd stake my life on the claim that 95% of cops are decent human beings who want to go to work, hopefully do something good, get a paycheck, and go home to the wife and kids. I have met cops who were genuine psychos, but they are rare at best.

If you deal with cops as human beings, treat them with respect, dont get in their way, and be polite, I guarantee that you will have much more pleasant dealings with police. To people who say "Oh cops are DICKS!", I say "No, they're dicks to YOU."

Police are just as much a part of the system that treats people like crap as any other worker. They are the arm that enforces the laws that hold our corrupt system together, but how many of them do you think really understand what their purpose truly is? How many of them do you think are allowed to question their purpose and stay employed? Hoe easy do you think it is to see through the blue haze of duty, honor, and service and see how things really are and what they are generally used for?

I think we need to act in a more humane and understanding way towards law enforcement, objecting to corruption whenever and wherever we see it, but also lauding honesty and true honor whenever and wherever we see it.

[Ele'ill]

I realize I may be digging flaming arrows out of my face for saying this, but I think we need to stop and take a look at the situation.

Hopefully your question is genuine and receives a genuine response.



I admit, I am not familiar with the incident the OP's link talks about and as such I will not comment on it. Rather I want to address the "fuck the police" kind of mentality that seems somewhat prevalent here.

Do you think the 'some what prevalent' 'fuck the police' mentality here has something to do with the situations in the article that you're not going to comment on?


No matter what, cops are hated for their jobs.

Yes. So why do they exist?

Also, the fact that you're unfamiliar with the type of widespread situation noted in the article highlights a bit of a problem. If you want, before reading this reply further, let me know if you'd like some more info on killings by police and police brutality.



There is NOTHING a cop can do that wont have people wanting him dead or fired.

Not serving the interests of the ruling class would be a start- not killing innocent people- brutalizing people- being criminals- raping people- harassing people- ruling over the community they're supposed to protect but which has no control of its own 'policing' or related policies at all- nor in any of the justice and legal oriented end of things when a cop decides he and his buddy are going to beat a man to death and leave him for dead.



90% of people act like dicks to cops regardless of the situation.

Source?


Second, cops are people.

Every single one of the most horrible atrocities ever committed against people were carried out by other people.



Yes, shocking as this may be, cops are people and make mistakes like the rest of us. No, I'm not trying to insinuate that if an officer kills someone without proper cause that we say "boys will be boys" and move on. But I think demanding perfection then acting indignant when they cant provide it is, at best, a little naive.

So not killing, raping, harassing and terrorizing a community is considered perfection to you?



Third, cops (usually) protect people like us.

lol, no. I am not part of your 'us'. Back away. That's dangerous because I don't know what it is.



If a bunch of us are out there having a rally and a group of people decide they want to attack us, we can call the cops and they will (generally) come out and stop the violence.

No. So here's what would happen at a leftist rally- first of all the rally would take place in a 12 foot high steel pen under the guided light of angels just kidding ten police helicopters- the police would spend the first hour further boxing in the rally with riot squad movements- making arrests here and there- they would then begin to shoot tear gas canisters into the crowd- pepper spray- horse trample- beat and mass arrest regardless of a permit or not. (who the fuck needs a permit?) at this point a group of counter protesters or attackers would come running in in which case the police make more arrests of the original demonstrators for defending themselves. The original demonstrators run for their lives (literally) but can't get out of the pen because of the 309380398309830983 riot police blocking them in to stew in the teargas/pepperspray/horseshit soup while still being subjected to attacks.

Several demonstrators get out and flee into the surrounding neighborhoods just to be tracked down by helicopter and on foot by mobilized tank squads and samurai with beanbag shotguns or quite possibly with fully automatic live round weapons.





If our homes are being broken into, we can call them

I call a neighbor. We won't need police when there's 'wealth equality'.



and they will come to take the guy to jail.

Fuck the prison industrial complex.



I've been dealing with cops for years and I'd stake my life on the claim that 95% of cops are decent human beings

Source? Define 'decent human beings'.


who want to go to work, hopefully do something good, get a paycheck, and go home to the wife and kids.

I think a lot of people want this who are absolute psychopaths.



I have met cops who were genuine psychos, but they are rare at best.

You've met multiple cops of the 5% that are not 'decent human beings'? That says something- you're only one person. Somethings seems off with your percentages. :rolleyes:



If you deal with cops as human beings, treat them with respect, dont get in their way, and be polite, I guarantee that you will have much more pleasant dealings with police. To people who say "Oh cops are DICKS!", I say "No, they're dicks to YOU."

It's not really about being a 'dick'- it's about their current conduct, their purpose in society and their role not really being necessary after we kick capitalism to the curb.



Police are just as much a part of the system that treats people like crap as any other worker. They are the arm that enforces the laws that hold our corrupt system together,

Did you smile when you typed this? Come on, be honest.


but how many of them do you think really understand what their purpose truly is?

If they're causing harm to large numbers of people and if they support and protect a system that's causing harm to an even larger number of people I don't think it really matters all that much but I'm sure given the legal background and corruption involved in police activity I'd have to say not only do they know fully what's going on but they outright support it.



we need to act in a more humane and understanding way towards law enforcement,

Love your enemy until they kill you.



objecting to corruption whenever and wherever we see it, but also lauding honesty and true honor whenever and wherever we see it.

We don't have a say in it because they don't serve us. It's that simple.

I'd like to link you to this as an example of dually objecting to corruption while lauding honesty and 'true honor'. It only works with police who are exempt from community justice.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/texas-cop-rapes-t150226/index.html

[Tomhet]

Not all cops are bad, if they would sided/side with us, more power to them..

[Ele'ill]

Not all cops are bad, if they would sided/side with us, more power to them..

That would likely look like them not being cops any longer.

[gorillafuck]

i'm not really down with, and i think terrorism is problematic, but at least the anarchists who killed cops weren't weiners talking about police accountability or whatever.They just caused massive crackdowns on the labour movement and immigrants.

I bet when immigrants were getting deported after crackdowns on anarchists they were thinking "gee it's great that that cop was killed and so what if I'm getting forcibly kicked out of the country as long as a cop is dead!"

[Hoplite]

Hopefully your question is genuine and receives a genuine response. I can assure you that I approached the post with a genuine interest.


Do you think the 'some what prevalent' 'fuck the police' mentality here has something to do with the situations in the article that you're not going to comment on? Yes, and I understand that anger can make people do or want to do pretty horrible things. But I think we need to realize when anger makes us blind and strive to avoid that.


Yes. So why do they exist?
Because society would not without them. We need SOMEONE to enforce the laws of the land, and that job falls to police most of the time.


Also, the fact that you're unfamiliar with the type of widespread situation noted in the article highlights a bit of a problem. If you want, before reading this reply further, let me know if you'd like some more info on killings by police and police brutality. I am unfamiliar with the particulars of the incident mentioned in the OP, I am well familiar with instances of police over-stepping their bounds.


Not serving the interests of the ruling class would be a start- not killing innocent people- brutalizing people- being criminals- raping people- harassing people- ruling over the community they're supposed to protect but which has no control of its own 'policing' or related policies at all- nor in any of the justice and legal oriented end of things when a cop decides he and his buddy are going to beat a man to death and leave him for dead.
The fact is the vast majority of police in the US dont engage in this kind of behavior. Some do and they should absolutely be punished, but we need to avoid tarring all police for the actions of a minority.


Source?
That was hyperbole, so I dont have a source for it. It has been my experience that the vast majority of people, when dealing with cops, act like dicks to the police.


Every single one of the most horrible atrocities ever committed against people were carried out by other people. Agreed, but that misses the point I was going for.


So not killing, raping, harassing and terrorizing a community is considered perfection to you? As I have said, the vast majority of police in the US do not engage in this kind of behavior.


lol, no. I am not part of your 'us'. Back away. That's dangerous because I don't know what it is.
That's fine, but you need to understand that the police, by and large, will help you if you need it.


No. So here's what would happen at a leftist rally- first of all the rally would take place in a 12 foot high steel pen under the guided light of angels just kidding ten police helicopters- the police would spend the first hour further boxing in the rally with riot squad movements- making arrests here and there- they would then begin to shoot tear gas canisters into the crowd- pepper spray- horse trample- beat and mass arrest regardless of a permit or not. (who the fuck needs a permit?) at this point a group of counter protesters or attackers would come running in in which case the police make more arrests of the original demonstrators for defending themselves. The original demonstrators run for their lives (literally) but can't get out of the pen because of the 309380398309830983 riot police blocking them in to stew in the teargas/pepperspray/horseshit soup while still being subjected to attacks. We need to differentiate between what the average cop wants to do and what the top individuals want them to do.

Do you honestly think the vast majority of police at events like that want to be there? Would YOU want to be there as law enforcement? What you want doesn't matter as a police officer, you do what you are given instructions to do. That doesn't make it right, but we need to understand that the people driving that kind of aggressive response are not the average officers on the ground.


I call a neighbor. We won't need police when there's 'wealth equality'. I think that's an extremely hopeful and unrealistic idea. We will always need someone to enforce the laws and it's better that it be done by trained professionals with public oversight.


Fuck the prison industrial complex.
You have a better plan? I agree our prison system is completely screwed up, but at the moment...that's all we really have and a broken system is, for the time being, better than no system.


Source? Define 'decent human beings'.
As I said, they want to go to work, do their jobs, get a paycheck, maybe do something good, and go home to their wife and kids. That is not a terrible thing to want.


I think a lot of people want this who are absolute psychopaths. Not everybody is as inclined to buck the system as many of us are. We need to understand that.


You've met multiple cops of the 5% that are not 'decent human beings'? That says something- you're only one person. Somethings seems off with your percentages. I've dealt with LAPD most of my life, so things could be very different in other cities, but from my experience the vast majority of cops are not monstrous people.


It's not really about being a 'dick'- it's about their current conduct As I have said, many of them have current conduct that is not objectionable.


their purpose in society
Which is not known to or acknowledged by virtually any of them.


and their role not really being necessary after we kick capitalism to the curb. That day has not yet come, we need to deal with the reality of now.


Did you smile when you typed this? Come on, be honest.
I cant say that I did, why do you ask?


If they're causing harm to large numbers of people and if they support and protect a system that's causing harm to an even larger number of people I don't think it really matters all that much but I'm sure given the legal background and corruption involved in police activity I'd have to say not only do they know fully what's going on but they outright support it. I dont think most police genuinely know what they are in uniform for past the pleasantries of "duty, honor, and service." I dont see that the police departments would allow an officer to stay who started getting upset that he and his fellow officers were being used, essentially, as a public suppression force.


Love your enemy until they kill you.
Dont feed your enemy's perception of you and he might actually join you.


We don't have a say in it because they don't serve us. It's that simple. Really? I've seen boatloads of community action against the LAPD that has made radical changes. LAPD SWAT was formed after public outcry, public outcry launched the investigations into several officers and other incidents involving the police.


I'd like to link you to this as an example of dually objecting to corruption while lauding honesty and 'true honor'. It only works with police who are exempt from community justice.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/texas-cop-rapes-t150226/index.html
I agree that was a horrible thing to have happen and the punishment by far did not fit the crime. But this, to me, underscores that we need to try and make the police our allies so we CAN properly punish people like this. If we have an adversarial relationship with the police, they will push us out of the loop every time.

[Ele'ill]

Before I reply- Do you consider yourself a revolutionary leftist?

[Hoplite]

Before I reply- Do you consider yourself a revolutionary leftist?
I'm not sure I understand the question.

[Paulappaul]

First, cops have probably the worst job in the world. If they do their job well, people complain that they're too omnipresent and that they catch people who speed and write tickets. If they do their job poorly, people complain that they're letting criminals get away and are lazy. No matter what, cops are hated for their jobs. There is NOTHING a cop can do that wont have people wanting him dead or fired. 90% of people act like dicks to cops regardless of the situation.

The entire Police system propagates Dick head cops. Cops know they can be dicks. They know they have institutions, guns, lawyers and money behind their backs. Consider this, I have never been in a situation where a Cop hasn't been a dickhead. I have been in alot of situation where they beat the fuck out activists.


Second, cops are people. Yes, shocking as this may be, cops are people and make mistakes like the rest of us. No, I'm not trying to insinuate that if an officer kills someone without proper cause that we say "boys will be boys" and move on. But I think demanding perfection then acting indignant when they cant provide it is, at best, a little naive.

Nobody is demanding perfection, just accountability and restriction under the current Capitalist system.


Third, cops (usually) protect people like us. If a bunch of us are out there having a rally and a group of people decide they want to attack us, we can call the cops and they will (generally) come out and stop the violence. If our homes are being broken into, we can call them and they will come to take the guy to jail. And yes, I realize that the aforementioned doesn't always happen that way, I live in LA.


Except it's the Cops who are breaking into our house. Except it's the Cops who are beating us at protests. Except it's the Cop who knows with the whole Capitalist system behind their backs, that they can beat the fuck out of anybody they want.



I've been dealing with cops for years and I'd stake my life on the claim that 95% of cops are decent human beings who want to go to work, hopefully do something good, get a paycheck, and go home to the wife and kids. I have met cops who were genuine psychos, but they are rare at best.

Alot of Portland Cops are actually Nazis.

[Ele'ill]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Do you consider yourself a leftist that pushes or will push for a revolution? Are you a revolutionary leftist?

[Hoplite]

The entire Police system propagates Dick head cops. Cops know they can be dicks. They know they have institutions, guns, lawyers and money behind their backs. Consider this, I have never been in a situation where a Cop hasn't been a dickhead. I have been in alot of situation where they beat the fuck out activists. I have two basic responses to that and I guarantee you wont like either one of them.

First, the thin blue line has it's own mythos and it's own code of behavior; it's a society unto itself that has values and virtues, like any other society. And like any other society, if you disagree with the core values, you get edged out. Who get's to set what those values are? That would be the people at the top, people who are politically connected, often well-to-do, and who have a genuine vested interest in a law enforcement with a far more traditional mindset. Ergo, we have a culture of law enforcement that self-prunes people away who disagree with beating activists or breaking up protests and what you have left are people who either dont have the courage to speak out, have genuinely bought the party line that it's somehow for the good of society, or the small minority who are genuine whack-jobs.

Second, and I'm gonna be blunt, we REALLY do not do ourselves any favors. There is A LOT of very hostile feelings towards law enforcement on the left and that creates hostile action which elicits a hostile response from law enforcement which creates more hostile feelings, thus the cycle continues. What we need to do is get away from that, we need to distance ourselves from people who treat cops like the enemy and start looking at them in the same light as any other group of oppressed workers. Once we do that, I think we'll see the attitude of the average law enforcement officer change dramatically.


Alot of Portland Cops are actually Nazis.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Completely unsubstantiated rumor getting treated as fact.


Do you consider yourself a leftist that pushes or will push for a revolution? Are you a revolutionary leftist?
That's a complicated question, but I'll give it a shot.

Strictly speaking, I consider revolutions to be a tool, not an end. Revolutions, in my view, should be used to replace a corrupt government with a democratically run government that can disengage the claws the ruling classes have on the lower classes. Once that happens, once the flood of propaganda stops, I think we'll see people, on their own, come to Socialism and Communism of their own accord through voting and other peaceful means.

This has the added benefit of tailoring specific national instances of Communism and Socialism to the needs of the people who will be living and working under these systems.

I feel that people will, naturally, want to work together and co-exist once they stop having propaganda screamed at them their entire lives.

Chaos is, for me, antithetical to Socialism and Communism; highly ordered systems do not do well in a chaotic environment and if you introduce them through revolution, you may be introducing them to people who are not yet ready for that kind of atmosphere.

I also tend to be a little more practical; I want to deal with the here-now, with what we have today, with what we can accomplish. End goals are good but we need to deal with the reality of today. Frankly, when people start talking about petty bourgeois and arguing about who is in what class, my eyes start to glass over. Ideological discussion is important but I think more people on the left need to be more practically minded, actually I think ALL people of ALL political spectra need to be a little more practically minded.

[Paulappaul]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Completely unsubstantiated rumor getting treated as fact.

http://zinelibrary.info/files/NAZI%20COP%202010%20newest.pdf

There you go dude.

[PhoenixAsh]

I do not pretend the situation in the US....

But when I was in university I lived in student housing. Part of the student housing was rented to webster university to accomodate foreign exchange students. For the largest part these were Americans....each and every single one of them was always scared of cops. Always.

Now...that fear...in avarage American kids...probably middle class or higher...is not something I usually experience in the attitude of the Dutch vs the police....unless your ethnic minority or into radical politics. Sure...there is a lot of comtempt...but there is not a lot of fear.

Its not healthy.....so where do you suppose that fear comes from?

[PhoenixAsh]

First, the thin blue line has it's own mythos and it's own code of behavior; it's a society unto itself that has values and virtues, like any other society. And like any other society, if you disagree with the core values, you get edged out. Who get's to set what those values are? That would be the people at the top, people who are politically connected, often well-to-do, and who have a genuine vested interest in a law enforcement with a far more traditional mindset. Ergo, we have a culture of law enforcement that self-prunes people away who disagree with beating activists or breaking up protests and what you have left are people who either dont have the courage to speak out, have genuinely bought the party line that it's somehow for the good of society, or the small minority who are genuine whack-jobs.


eh...now I was under the impression that law enforcement is supposed to be an institution within society...rather than society in itself.

think about it.



Second, and I'm gonna be blunt, we REALLY do not do ourselves any favors. There is A LOT of very hostile feelings towards law enforcement on the left and that creates hostile action which elicits a hostile response from law enforcement which creates more hostile feelings, thus the cycle continues. What we need to do is get away from that, we need to distance ourselves from people who treat cops like the enemy and start looking at them in the same light as any other group of oppressed workers. Once we do that, I think we'll see the attitude of the average law enforcement officer change dramatically.


Yes...and there are very hostile feelings because since the dawn of socialism police has been the ones starting and propagating the violence....killing, arresting and repressing....and that continues to this day. Its not because WE have hostile feelings they act...its because they so act that we have hostile feelings.

If you even think for one miute that cops are ever going to side with us as an institution than you are horribly dilluded.



snip


If you want that you should understand that the cops work for the system....thats who they are payed to protect. If you want to change the system...they are that blue line you were talking about who will try to prevent you from doing so by force an military tactics if required.

[Hoplite]

http://zinelibrary.info/files/NAZI%20COP%202010%20newest.pdf

There you go dude.
I dont really see anything in here that indicates Portland police are Nazis.

For instance, the article talks about the European Kindred, that is primarily a prison gang with maybe a few members out on the streets. I dont see anything there that is definitive.

I'm sure there are police in Portland who are Nazis. I'm sure there are police EVERYWHERE who are Nazis. However I dont see any indication that they are anything beyond a handful.


Now...that fear...in avarage American kids...probably middle class or higher...is not something I usually experience in the attitude of the Dutch vs the police....unless your ethnic minority or into radical politics. Sure...there is a lot of comtempt...but there is not a lot of fear.

Its not healthy.....so where do you suppose that fear comes from?
Same place that fear of the teacher comes from; they are forces of discipline. There is A LOT of mythology built up around police in the US, thanks to countless hours of television entertainment. People seem to think that the cops can (and will) do anything they want.


eh...now I was under the impression that law enforcement is supposed to be an institution within society...rather than society in itself. You are going to have this effect in any large group of people that has such a strong commonality; the military, hospitals, schools, any particular vocation with large numbers of people, it doesnt matter.


Yes...and there are very hostile feelings because since the dawn of socialism police has been the ones starting and propagating the violence....killing, arresting and repressing....and that continues to this day. Its not because WE have hostile feelings they act...its because they so act that we have hostile feelings. But you miss the fact that they act because they are directed to do so, not because they want to. Im sure there are a few, but most cops DO NOT enjoy messing with protesters. Getting punched, rocks thrown at you, or worse. What human being would willingly endure that if they had a choice?

At this point, it doesn't MATTER who started. What matters is who ends it and the police are used by people with far more determination than you or I, so its up to us to change the way we behave towards the police and give them less ammunition to demonize the left with.


If you even think for one miute that cops are ever going to side with us as an institution than you are horribly dilluded.
Actually I'm quite pure ;)

Seriously though, police are human beings and even if their leaders dont, the average officer will if given enough reason.


If you want that you should understand that the cops work for the system....thats who they are payed to protect. If you want to change the system...they are that blue line you were talking about who will try to prevent you from doing so by force an military tactics if required.
Cops CAN be our allies, if we make the effort first.

[PhoenixAsh]

Same place that fear of the teacher comes from; they are forces of discipline. There is A LOT of mythology built up around police in the US, thanks to countless hours of television entertainment. People seem to think that the cops can (and will) do anything they want.


Actually...its more when police commit crimes and get acquitted for some bullshit reason, or get off with a slap on the wrist or otherwise ridiculous sentence. Police do get away with everything...and act accordingly.

(Teachers should not be forces of discipline. Btw.)

No...these kids are afraid because the police form that society you talk about and choose which laws to enforce and to whom.

Fear =/ respect. Fear is what you get if you misuse your power.




You are going to have this effect in any large group of people that has such a strong commonality; the military, hospitals, schools, any particular vocation with large numbers of people, it doesnt matter.


Yes...it does matter because when society get formed it means they are no longer part of the bigger society they are supposed to serve.




But you miss the fact that they act because they are directed to do so, not because they want to. Im sure there are a few, but most cops DO NOT enjoy messing with protesters. Getting punched, rocks thrown at you, or worse. What human being would willingly endure that if they had a choice?


They were forced to become cops? They chose to be directed to act...and know full well what it means to become a cops. "Its my job" or "I was given orders" has long ago stopped being a viable defence.
They could simply quit or refuse en masse if they do not like the order...and yet...they never ever did.




At this point, it doesn't MATTER who started. What matters is who ends it and the police are used by people with far more determination than you or I, so its up to us to change the way we behave towards the police and give them less ammunition to demonize the left with.


It matters because it shows the nature of the beast.

The police is never going to end it...even in the very remote possibility that they choose they want to end it...they are directed to continue it. Get it??

They even form infiltration units to incite peaceful protests so violence can and will be used.



Actually I'm quite pure ;)

Seriously though, police are human beings and even if their leaders dont, the average officer will if given enough reason.

Cops CAN be our allies, if we make the effort first.

O...I am not saying they are not human beings. Its their job I take issue with and the way they chose to execute that job. It attracts a specific kind of individual and mind set which is even further cultivated by that society you are talking about.

Cops as a group will never be our allies. Its not in their nature. We always have had a better chance to get the military on our side than the police. And it will always stay that way.

Why? Because the sole purpose of the police is to turn on their own population. THAT makes them unsuitable for allies.

They are specifically trained and recruited to view the avarage citizen not as a human being but as a potential criminal....who is one step away from disorderly conduct or criminal behaviour.

[Euronymous]

I can see where your getting at Hoplite but you don't know the cops in Washington. These cops have become a problem that we as a society must eliminate. There have been numerous killings by police in 2010 and they were all aquitted, even if the evidence showed none were justified.

[Martin Blank]

Thread closed per OP request.