Reporter Lara Logan assaulted in Cairo, Egypt

[progressive_lefty]

CBS News correspondent Lara Logan on Friday suffered a "brutal and sustained sexual assault and beating" after being separated from her crew in the midst of a crowd in Egypt, the CBS Corp. news unit said Tuesday.

At the time of the incident, Ms. Logan, a veteran war reporter, was covering the celebrations in Cairo's Tahrir Square after former Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak stepped down. Ms. Logan was separated from her colleagues by a large "mob of more than 200 people whipped into frenzy," CBS said.

The separation and assault lasted for roughly 20 to 30 minutes, said a person familiar with the matter, who added that it was "not a rape." A CBS News spokesman declined to comment beyond the statement.

CBS said Ms. Logan was rescued by a group of women and roughly 20 Egyptian soldiers, and reunited with her team. She flew back to the U.S. on the first flight Saturday morning, and is now in the hospital recovering, CBS said.
Link. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704409004576146661656309184.html)

A disgusting piece of news to hear. Obviously it shows there are people in Egypt that are trying to hijack the revolution. I'm sure many Egyptians will feal terrible after hearing about this.

[B5C]

There is always people going to use the revolution as an excuse to do bad things. I just hope these people are caught and given to the military or the police.

[gorillafuck]

The separation and assault lasted for roughly 20 to 30 minutes, said a person familiar with the matter, who added that it was "not a rape."Uhh, did she consensually have sex in a large mob of 200 people that were going wild?

[Pretty Flaco]

I don't know what exactly happened, but reading that it seems to be that she became separated from her crew and then was grabbed by someone and sexually assaulted one way or another. It's not connected to the revolution, but a gross assault on an unsuspecting woman.

[~Spectre]

Maybe they mean there was no penetration? Other than that no clue.

[punisa]

Disgusting ! How could this have happened?! Mob of 200 in frenzy? This is a nightmare story... I hope she recovers soons.

[The American]

An attractive young woman goes into a crowd of young men high on testosterone...what do you expect will happen? I'm not trying to justify it but she should take precautions...

[bcbm]

An attractive young woman goes into a crowd of young men high on testosterone...what do you expect will happen? I'm not trying to justify it but she should take precautions...


wtf

[Blackscare]

I was going to post "inb4 blaming the victim", too :rolleyes:



She was probably wearing a skirt, she was clearly asking for it.

[GPDP]

An attractive young woman goes into a crowd of young men high on testosterone...what do you expect will happen? I'm not trying to justify it but she should take precautions...

This post is bad, and you should feel bad.

[9]

The separation and assault lasted for roughly 20 to 30 minutes, said a person familiar with the matter, who added that it was "not a rape." Uhh, did she consensually have sex in a large mob of 200 people that were going wild?

I haven't been following this story so I don't know the details at all (and honestly, it isn't something I particularly care to know the details of); however, I do know that rape isn't the only kind of sexual assault, so obviously its possible to be sexually assaulted without actually being raped.

[The American]

I'm not saying its right but shes an idiot and if you're surprised by a pack of euphoric young males filled with testosterone sexually assaulting an attractive girl by herself then you are more of an idiot than she is.

[Sosa]

I'm not saying its right but shes an idiot and if you're surprised by a pack of euphoric young males filled with testosterone sexually assaulting an attractive girl by herself then you are more of an idiot than she is.

She's an idiot for doing her job? wtf?

[KC]

I'm not saying its right but shes an idiot and if you're surprised by a pack of euphoric young males filled with testosterone sexually assaulting an attractive girl by herself then you are more of an idiot than she is.

You realize that the crowd that did this contained many women, right? Your blanket presumptions, then, are wrong on both counts. In other words, you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Please shut the fuck up.

[Fulanito de Tal]

Okay. People get raped all the time. Why is this particular incident news? While it is sad and horrible that the person was raped, let's compare it to all the other rapes that happened today and did not get any attention from the media whatsoever. This is a rape to rape comparison. Is it because ...

-a white blonde young adult was raped?
-US Resident?
-Egyptians are crazed savages?
-There is no order to the revolution?

I'm big into looking "who benefits from this." To me it is obvious that the reason this is news over any other person on the planet that was raped it because it serves to benefit those that oppose the Egyptian Revolution. That story is bullshit. :thumbdown:

[Salyut]

Okay. People get raped all the time. Why is this particular incident news? While it is sad and horrible that the person was raped, let's compare it to all the other rapes that happened today and did not get any attention from the media whatsoever. This is a rape to rape comparison. Is it because ...

-a white blonde young adult was raped?
-US Resident?
-Egyptians are crazed savages?
-There is no order to the revolution?

I'm big into looking "who benefits from this." To me it is obvious that the reason this is news over any other person on the planet that was raped it because it serves to benefit those that oppose the Egyptian Revolution. That story is bullshit. :thumbdown:

may i suggest you make like this video and... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssC77hapv0g)

[Vampire Lobster]

I'm not saying its right but shes an idiot and if you're surprised by a pack of euphoric young males filled with testosterone sexually assaulting an attractive girl by herself then you are more of an idiot than she is.

You are seriously calling her an idiot for doing her job and getting raped as a result? That's fucking disgusting.

[turquino]

Whether the story is true or not, I can already see this worked into a racist, fake feminist narrative about an anti-woman Arab or Islamic culture. But in which country is a woman more likely to be raped: Egypt or America? Answer: America. And which country systematically tortured Arab women and children with the democratic support of its population? Again, the USA.

[Salyut]

Whether the story is true or not, I can already see this worked into a racist, fake feminist narrative about an anti-woman Arab or Islamic culture. But in which country is a woman more likely to be raped: Egypt or America? Answer: America. And which country systematically tortured Arab women and children with the democratic support of its population? Again, the USA.

what

[Vampire Lobster]

Whether the story is true or not, I can already see this worked into a racist, fake feminist narrative about an anti-woman Arab or Islamic culture. But in which country is a woman more likely to be raped: Egypt or America? Answer: America. And which country systematically tortured Arab women and children with the democratic support of its population? Again, the USA.

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this thread.

[ed miliband]

Okay. People get raped all the time. Why is this particular incident news? While it is sad and horrible that the person was raped, let's compare it to all the other rapes that happened today and did not get any attention from the media whatsoever. This is a rape to rape comparison. Is it because ...

-a white blonde young adult was raped?
-US Resident?
-Egyptians are crazed savages?
-There is no order to the revolution?

I'm big into looking "who benefits from this." To me it is obvious that the reason this is news over any other person on the planet that was raped it because it serves to benefit those that oppose the Egyptian Revolution. That story is bullshit. :thumbdown:


So is the woman who got raped involved in this wicked conspiracy to make the Egyptian Revolution look bad and disorganised?

Tragic and awful as each and every other rape incident is, this case clearly involves circumstances that make it more likely to be reported than other rape incidents. If a woman got raped in the middle of a shopping centre, surrounded by 200 happy shoppers, it'd probably be reported too, y'know?

[Devrim]

Just to try to bring a little perspective to this, the suggestion that there was a rape seems to come purely from this thread on RevLeft. None of the newspaper reports I have seen have any suggestion there was a rape. In fact the one quoted above makes it clear that there wasn't.

Devrim

[Cencus]

Okay. People get raped all the time. Why is this particular incident news? While it is sad and horrible that the person was raped, let's compare it to all the other rapes that happened today and did not get any attention from the media whatsoever. This is a rape to rape comparison. Is it because ...

-a white blonde young adult was raped?
-US Resident?
-Egyptians are crazed savages?
-There is no order to the revolution?

I'm big into looking "who benefits from this." To me it is obvious that the reason this is news over any other person on the planet that was raped it because it serves to benefit those that oppose the Egyptian Revolution. That story is bullshit. :thumbdown:

I'd suggest the reason this is news is that the victim is involved in reporting the news and a "media personality" of sorts.

In the U.K. the news is very much dominated by stories of the rich and gormless, and I'd guess it's pretty much the same elsewhere. If shit happens to normal folks it aint newsworthy unless it's pretty much beyond the pale or a slow news day but as soon as someone famous farts it's front pages news.


An attractive young woman goes into a crowd of young men high on testosterone...what do you expect will happen? I'm not trying to justify it but she should take precautions...

The fact that she was with her film crew (I'm guessing at least another 4 bodies) but was seperated seems to have passed you by.

[TC]

The title of this thread needs to be changed: the article clearly states that she was not raped and implies rather that she was sexually assaulted in a manner short of rape. The idea that rape is the only type of sexual assault either minimizes other forms of sexual assault by equating them with non-sexual assault, or makes them unnecessarily dramatic by equating them with rape (as was done here).

Given that rape, whether actual, threatened, or theorized, is humiliating for the alleged victim, publicly alleging that someone was raped when they apparently were not is actually a way of harming a victim (of sexual assault short of rape) and is totally inappropriate and needs to stop.

Moreover given all of the immense cultural baggage associated with rape victims (not even a traditional stigma but a cultural association with trauma, tragedy, vulnerability and weakness and ultimate victim-hood) wrongly alleging someone is a rape victim may itself be a sort of degradation.

[PhoenixAsh]

First off all...

Speaking of rape is highly premature. Its unnecessarilly distorting the news as we know it right at this time....especially since news reports (more to the point...the one in OP itself) seem to indicate there was no actual rape. Until further information is released everybody speaking of rape is making premature assumptions...use the proper term: sexual assault.

Yes...its awful, yes its a personal tragedy, yes it doesn't really make it better....but the fact remains that using wrong terminology distort the facts as we know them right now.


Second off all...

She is a war reporter. Its a high risk job. Shit happens to them. That doesn't make it less of a tragedy but the fact remains that when you put yourself in high risk situations you can expect that things sometimes go wrong....terribly wrong. Its not blaming the victim. But its being realistic. Everybody who states otherwise and expects reporters in high volatile situations to be somehow immune to everything bad is dumb as shit.

If a war correspondent gets shot...that is a risk that belongs to the job. If you get arrested...its a risk of the job....if you get assaulted that is a risk of the job. And YES for women there is a higher risk of a possibility to get sexually assaulted.

I have heard news media warn reporters everyday to be careful, that they were in significant danger, that there was no way to protect them. I have heard news media state everyday that, especially for Americans, media and reporters were a target....and that it was extremely dangerous to be there.

Now...let me ask all of you...IF a reporter gets shot in a highly volatile war like situation...would you considere this to be worse than any other who got killed in that situation?

You willfully place yourself in harms way. That doesn't mean you are asking for bad things to happen...but is does mean that when things go wrong...it was a risk belonging to your job....and one that you should and could have considered before you placed yourself in that suituation. That doesn't make them less terrible...but its not one that I would want to single out as being in anyway more of a tragedy than...lets say...any other victim.

Over 500 people died during the clashes and protests. More than 2000 people got injured or disappeared.

Now the reason why this is somehow singled out and made into such a big issue over all the other injuries, disappearances and deaths is:
1). She was white and blonde
2). she was pretty
3). she was a she
4). she was a reporter and this is linked to the news people getting into trouble story.


So my personal opinion on this is that it is indeed terrible but not especially so over all the others who suffered.



Third of all....

What bugs me about this thread is that it seems to focus on the fact
that a woman was attacked... and the main line of arguing here seems to me to be highly paternalistic.

As if somehow she...because she is a woman...should be more immune to bad shit happening....and if somehow as a war corrrespondent choosing a high risk job she should be more protected than a man. It reeks of an assumption that she, as a woman, has not had the insight and foresight into the risks she invovled herself with.

She was a journalist...a war correspondent...who willingly chose to be in a high risk and exiting profession which carries inherrent risks! Cudo's to her for trying to break the male dominance in that field...I really admire that. But the fact remains war correspondents of ANY sex get injured, assaulted, arrested, tortured, killed in the line of duty.... I am pretty sure they know about it being THE most dangerous job as a reporter.

It also bugs me that when someone poits out that she chose a high risk profession this person is immediately jumped and somehow branded as sexist or stupid.

While in fact I want to reverse the argument. This is not a discussion about the treatment of journalists in general. It is not a thread about sexual assault in general. It singles out a specific case in all the other many, many instances of journalist mistreatment in the Egyptian protests and clashes....now WHY exactly is that? I highly suspect the motivations to be the third in combination with the first or second of the three points I mentioned above.

And that is worrying....since objectivity has been lost IMO and there now seems to be a real focus on her being a woman...instead of her being a reporter belonging to a group of people who are in high risk professions and obstructed in doing their job.



Fourth of all...

The main important fact in this specific case is IMO missed completely in this thread:



CBS said Ms. Logan was rescued by a group of women and roughly 20 Egyptian soldiers, and reunited with her team.

Cudo's for them to take initiative.

It seems like a clear sign that women in Egypt are somehow very much empowered....either by the protests or have always been as such.

[bcbm]

I'm not saying its right but shes an idiot and if you're surprised by a pack of euphoric young males filled with testosterone sexually assaulting an attractive girl by herself then you are more of an idiot than she is.

yeah men are animals with no self control, who can blame em

the woman is clearly the idiot in this scenario






:sneaky:

[Sentinel]

An attractive young woman goes into a crowd of young men high on testosterone...what do you expect will happen?

No. The victims are never to be blamed for sexual assaults, and a vast majority of men are not sexual predators unable to control their actions when sexually aroused.


I'm not trying to justify it but Having to say this usually means that one should think about it twice, before saying whatever one was going to say..


Just to try to bring a little perspective to this, the suggestion that there was a rape seems to come purely from this thread on RevLeft. None of the newspaper reports I have seen have any suggestion there was a rape. In fact the one quoted above makes it clear that there wasn't.

DevrimIndeed. The only person interviewed who is actually said to be 'familiar with the matter' says it wasn't a rape, so I don't see a reason to regard it as one before some evidence of that is posted.


The title of this thread needs to be changed: the article clearly states that she was not raped and implies rather that she was sexually assaulted in a manner short of rape.

My thoughts exactly. I also liked the rest of the post.


Moreover given all of the immense cultural baggage associated with rape victims (not even a traditional stigma but a cultural association with trauma, tragedy, vulnerability and weakness and ultimate victim-hood) wrongly alleging someone is a rape victim may itself be a sort of degradation.Indeed. It needs to stop.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I'm not saying its right but shes an idiot and if you're surprised by a pack of euphoric young males filled with testosterone sexually assaulting an attractive girl by herself then you are more of an idiot than she is.
Calling someone an idiot because they we're raped is beyond barbaric. You obviously have a dinosaur view of what women should have to expect. Male-chauvinist pig!

[gorillafuck]

I haven't been following this story so I don't know the details at all (and honestly, it isn't something I particularly care to know the details of); however, I do know that rape isn't the only kind of sexual assault, so obviously its possible to be sexually assaulted without actually being raped.True. I was reading the thread title though. my apologies.

[Widerstand]

Link. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704409004576146661656309184.html)

A disgusting piece of news to hear. Obviously it shows there are people in Egypt that are trying to hijack the revolution. I'm sure many Egyptians will feal terrible after hearing about this.


There is always people going to use the revolution as an excuse to do bad things. I just hope these people are caught and given to the military or the police.

What, do you think everyone who was out there on the streets against Mubarak was progressive, let alone anti-sexist? It's possible that these people were some of the criminals released from prison, it's possible that they were sociopaths trying to use the situation, but you know what's far more likely? That they were the exact same people that were on the streets all the time. Protesting doesn't automatically make one a non-sexist (or non-racist or non-ANYTHING for that matter).


This has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this thread.

Actually it has, because this is what can happen. Western media has been spreading Islamophobia dressed in Feminist concern since quite some time.

[Le Libérer]

The name of this thread has been changed and The American restricted for sexism.

[Red Bayonet]

Who cares what happens to representatives of the bourgeois media???

[Robocommie]

Who cares what happens to representatives of the bourgeois media???

Wow. This thread's really bringing out the knuckle draggers!

[Robocommie]

Whether the story is true or not, I can already see this worked into a racist, fake feminist narrative about an anti-woman Arab or Islamic culture. But in which country is a woman more likely to be raped: Egypt or America? Answer: America. And which country systematically tortured Arab women and children with the democratic support of its population? Again, the USA.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/33031/how-muslims-celebrate-victory-egypts-peaceful-moderate-democratic-protesters/

Didn't take long.



Actually it has, because this is what can happen. Western media has been spreading Islamophobia dressed in Feminist concern since quite some time.

Faux outrage over the plight of women in colonized cultures is a time honored tradition. There's reams of documents out there from American writers who describe how awful Native Americans treat their women and how the white man should liberate them from tribal savagery.

[Rakhmetov]

While I do not welcome her sufferings and injuries ...

However, She was targeted not because she was a woman but because she represented an establishment Western piece of trash corporate "news" outlet ----MSNBC---- which repeatedly spreads lies and filth over the airwaves about the Middle East and U.S. foreign policy. :crying:

[Robocommie]

While I do not welcome her sufferings and injuries ...

However, She was targeted not because she was a woman but because she represented an establishment Western piece of trash corporate "news" outlet ----MSNBC---- which repeatedly spreads lies and filth over the airwaves about the Middle East and U.S. foreign policy. :crying:

Mengistu, there is no need to politicize this woman's attack. You don't know that she was targeted, you don't know that she wasn't intentionally attacked by agent provocateurs. In fact it's well documented that Mubarak has used agents provocateurs to commit sexual violence.

By making excuses for this, you're needlessly tying this crime to the banner of revolution. Don't get all frothing at the mouth when you don't have to.

[Devrim]

Mengistu, there is no need to politicize this woman's attack. You don't know that she was targeted, you don't know that she wasn't intentionally attacked by agent provocateurs. In fact it's well documented that Mubarak has used agents provocateurs to commit sexual violence.

By making excuses for this, you're needlessly tying this crime to the banner of revolution. Don't get all frothing at the mouth when you don't have to.

I don't think that anybody on here knows what happened or why it happened.

It could be that there was a vicious sexual assault. It could be that there was no sexual assault at all. It could have been done by provocateurs, or it could have been done by demonstrators.

I don't condone sexual assaults.

I would totally understand demonstrators, at a time when the state is making mass arrests, and a considering the news organisations routinely hand their film over to the police, attacking TV journalists.

I have no idea at all if that is the reason behind this assault, but if it were I would completely understand it.

Devrim

[Wanted Man]

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/33031/how-muslims-celebrate-victory-egypts-peaceful-moderate-democratic-protesters/

Didn't take long.

Well, to be fair, it's from a total crackpot, from the lowest of the low that's available in US media. It would be rather surprising if Debbie Schlussel didn't say this.

What's rather more surprising is the stance taken by some people here, although not so surprising that a fucking idiot like Mengistu is among them.

[(A)(_|]

I don't know exactly when this happened, however if it was Friday, the day Mubarak stepped down, many Egyptians flooded the streets and most main squares saw a great density of crowds, especially tahrir in which you could only squeeze your way through the crowds. This why I imagine it could only have happened in side streets or somewhere where she was isolated, as it would be very improbable that the large amount of masses would not interfere during the occurrence of this horrific scene.

Another point is that I can personally testify to the civility of all the demonstrations. I attended all the million man marches where women walked amongst men freely although tahrir square was overpopulated with bodies. This is something all Egyptians applauded and were mesmerized by; as sexual harassment is something that women in Egyptian society suffer on a daily basis. I never heard on one incidence of theft or harassment while I was at tahrir or from any of the demonstrators.

Something that is also of great importance is what the state media had propagated through out different media outlets that the protesters were funded by foreign bodies and even extremest entities like iran and hamas! An attempt to appeal to the naivety of average Egyptian people. This popularly resonated amongst some Egyptians and I had heard of foreigners being detained by the popular committees and beaten. I had actually heard of this incident from another demonstrator who was upset at how foreign media might portray the event. When this demonstrator told me the incident, he said it in the context that she was a foreign journalist and people were still suspicious of her. I believe there might be other dimensions to this story however this is mere speculation. In the end it is a sad and disgusting incident that happened among many other civil and respectful events that I among others was surprised to see unfold during this uprising.

[Robocommie]

Well, to be fair, it's from a total crackpot, from the lowest of the low that's available in US media. It would be rather surprising if Debbie Schlussel didn't say this.

Oh I know. I had just read it myself though, and I didn't want to suffer alone. You're welcome! :D



What's rather more surprising is the stance taken by some people here, although not so surprising that a fucking idiot like Mengistu is among them.

I just love the concept of people saying, "I'm not saying it's right, BUT..." Isn't that like saying, "I'm not a racist, BUT..."?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

While I do not welcome her sufferings and injuries ...

However, She was targeted not because she was a woman but because she represented an establishment Western piece of trash corporate "news" outlet ----MSNBC---- which repeatedly spreads lies and filth over the airwaves about the Middle East and U.S. foreign policy. :crying:
If you do not 'welcome' what happened to this woman, why do you feel the need to point out why you think it happened? Sexual assault is what scum bag bourgeois armies do when they rape and pillage other lands, it is not what revolutionaries do or condone on any level.

In assuming that this attack happened because the woman worked for a bourgeois media company, you act as an apologist for sexual assault, as you have no actual evidence to back that claim and are in fact creating convenient scenarios to try and justify the attack in some way. How do you know that the attackers weren't actually just a very small group of sick chauvinistic bastards that used a volatile situation to engage in a disgusting act?

All that we know is that a woman was sexually assaulted and we naturally condemn that.

[brigadista]

I do not condone what she reported happened to her and i don't like the american's comments at all but to be honest i am much more interested in what is happening in Egypt about workers organisation and action post mubarak than what happened to western journalists

[Salyut]

In fact it's well documented that Mubarak has used agents provocateurs to commit sexual violence.

That was my first thought as well.

Meanwhile in medialand:

2.) Creepy pundits waste no time politicizing Lara Logan’s sexual assault – Upon hearing the news that CBS correspondent Lara Logan “suffered a brutal and sustained sexual assault and beating” while reporting in Egypt last week, the entire Internet stopped what it was doing to honor Logan’s commitment to journalism. Everyone, that is, except for New York University research fellow Nir Rosen and pundit Debbie Schlussel. “Lara Logan had to outdo Anderson. Where was her buddy McCrystal,” Rosen tweeted, referring to Logan’s defense of Gen. Stanley McCrystal in the wake of a Rolling Stone profile that cost the general his job. Rosen, a liberal, followed with: “Yes yes its wrong what happened to her. Of course. I don’t support that. But, it would have been funny if it happened to Anderson [Cooper] too.” The conservative Schlussel, meanwhile, captioned a picture of Logan surrounded by Egyptian protestors, “Islam Fan Lara Logan Gets a Taste of Islam,” and concluded her rant by writing, “How fitting that Lara Logan was ‘liberated’ by Muslims in Liberation Square while she was gushing over the other part of the ‘liberation.’”

wtf

[Widerstand]

dude she got separated didnt you read the damn story?

how the fuck is that relevant?

[Jimmie Higgins]

Well obviously, a sexual assault in or itself is terrible and things like that need to be condemned. But it's also important to look at the larger context of this story. First of all women in Egypt have complained of the increased frequency and aggressiveness of sexual advances in recent years. They have noted that "thugs" frequently harass women in public.

We need to be strong in countering claims that "lack of order" was the cause of this - in fact, it was the conditions of this revolt that allowed women to have a stronger voice and feel free to come out to the streets and feel safe. I read report after report during the Tahrir protest where women said that they felt completely safe in the protest - something they don't feel when going to Tahrir or public areas normally.

[the last donut of the night]

holy shit the trolls are coming out of the woodwork


and anybody who's blaming the victim here can fuck off

[Jimmie Higgins]

Oh I know. I had just read it myself though, and I didn't want to suffer alone. You're welcome! :DHoly crap... thanks, I guess.:unsure:

I couldn't get past the first paragraph when the author complains about receiving "death threats" for "exposing the truth about Islam" and then a sentance later says that Egypt was a "Revolution by Animals". Hmmm... just a thought, maybe you don't get angry letters because you are speaking the truth but because you are a VILE ISLAMOPHOBIC, BIGOTED PIECE OF SHIT!

It's like when we forced David Horowitz off of the UCLA campus - he was crying, behind 3 LAPD members, his own private security, and then all 7 of his supporters who brought him to campus, that the student body was brainwashed by Marxist professors and that's why no one but counter-protesters showed up. Please people, if you're going to be a bigoted fascist, don't be a whiny one.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

While I do not welcome her sufferings and injuries ...

However, She was targeted not because she was a woman but because she represented an establishment Western piece of trash corporate "news" outlet ----MSNBC---- which repeatedly spreads lies and filth over the airwaves about the Middle East and U.S. foreign policy. :crying:

Sexual assault as a form of political protest?
:confused:
Yes, even "bourgeoise journalists" have a right to report without getting molested violently.

[Widerstand]

Because she was with her group and obviously had no intention of getting separated but did because of all the chaos going around her.

Seriously, anyone who blames the victim really just should fuck off this is fucken ridiculous especially on a leftist forum

I don't see what her being with her group initially has to do with it? Even if she was there alone all the fucking time this shouldn't have happened.

[Devrim]

I don't see what her being with her group initially has to do with it? Even if she was there alone all the fucking time this shouldn't have happened.

What shouldn't have happened? Do you know what happened? If you do, please tell us?

Obviously the woman has been assaulted. There are virtually no details about it. It could be anything from an attempted rape to a single person groping at her and then here being assaulted by non-connected individuals.

I have been to Cairo on more than one occasion and anybody who has knows that women, particularly foreign ones, but also Egyptian ones, get groped at in the street. This is not to excuse this in any way, merely stating that it happens.

We don't at all know what happened here nor do we know the motives of the people who attacked her.

What I do know is that if you go back a few decades to when struggles were more intense, it was quite routine for people to attack TV crews, and journalists with cameras. Considering that they routinely give their film to the state, and considering that people are arrested based on that film, and that lots of people are being arrested by the state in Egypt, there is one possible motive for an assault.

Would you be condemning attackers who had done it for that reason if what was the sexual nature of the assault had been a single man groping at her at around the same time?

Much more likely is that the attack was motivated by nationalist feelings, which have been whipped up recently in Egypt.

Of course it also could have been a full on sexual assault.

Personally I can't imagine a full on sexual assault take place in Cairo streets in public. I can imagine a woman, particularly a blonde Western woman, being groped at as she moved through a crowd in central Cairo. Indeed in normal times (I don't really know what the atmosphere on these demonstrations has really been like) I would find it difficult to imagine it not happening.

My point being that I don't quite understand people saying "It shouldn't have happened" when they have absolutely no idea at all what actually did happen.

Devrim

[Widerstand]

What shouldn't have happened? Do you know what happened? If you do, please tell us?

Obviously the woman has been assaulted. There are virtually no details about it. It could be anything from an attempted rape to a single person groping at her and then here being assaulted by non-connected individuals.

I have been to Cairo on more than one occasion and anybody who has knows that women, particularly foreign ones, but also Egyptian ones, get groped at in the street. This is not to excuse this in any way, merely stating that it happens.

We don't at all know what happened here nor do we know the motives of the people who attacked her.

What I do know is that if you go back a few decades to when struggles were more intense, it was quite routine for people to attack TV crews, and journalists with cameras. Considering that they routinely give their film to the state, and considering that people are arrested based on that film, and that lots of people are being arrested by the state in Egypt, there is one possible motive for an assault.

Would you be condemning attackers who had done it for that reason if what was the sexual nature of the assault had been a single man groping at her at around the same time?

Much more likely is that the attack was motivated by nationalist feelings, which have been whipped up recently in Egypt.

Of course it also could have been a full on sexual assault.

Personally I can't imagine a full on sexual assault take place in Cairo streets in public. I can imagine a woman, particularly a blonde Western woman, being groped at as she moved through a crowd in central Cairo. Indeed in normal times (I don't really know what the atmosphere on these demonstrations has really been like) I would find it difficult to imagine it not happening.

My point being that I don't quite understand people saying "It shouldn't have happened" when they have absolutely no idea at all what actually did happen.

Devrim

I'm operating under the assumption that it was indeed a sexual assault of sorts. What I was trying to clarify was that even if she went there fully on her own that's no justification/excuse for her being sexually assaulted.

Also, as far as attacks on journalists and such go, I can full well understand them, but they shouldn't take the form of sexual assaults.

Indeed it may be "normal" to be groped in Cairo, but that doesn't make it any better (it does make the report sensationalist though).

[Devrim]

Indeed it may be "normal" to be groped in Cairo, but that doesn't make it any better (it does make the report sensationalist though).

It is completely normal. I am not excusing it in any way merely stating the facts. Of course, it wouldn't be any surprise for the media to portray things in a sensationalist manner.

Devrim

[Invader Zim]

While I do not welcome her sufferings and injuries ...

However, She was targeted not because she was a woman but because she represented an establishment Western piece of trash corporate "news" outlet ----MSNBC---- which repeatedly spreads lies and filth over the airwaves about the Middle East and U.S. foreign policy. :crying:


Ah the typical crypto-sexist:

"It is bad that 'x' was attacked and sexually assaulted by misogynists but..."


However, She was targeted not because she was a woman but because she represented an establishment Western piece of trash corporate "news" outlet ----MSNBC---- which repeatedly spreads lies and filth over the airwaves about the Middle East and U.S. foreign policy.

Well that makes it OK then, right?

You fail as a human being.

[BlackMarx]

Okay. People get raped all the time. Why is this particular incident news? While it is sad and horrible that the person was raped, let's compare it to all the other rapes that happened today and did not get any attention from the media whatsoever. This is a rape to rape comparison. Is it because ...

-a white blonde young adult was raped?
-US Resident?
-Egyptians are crazed savages?
-There is no order to the revolution?

I'm big into looking "who benefits from this." To me it is obvious that the reason this is news over any other person on the planet that was raped it because it serves to benefit those that oppose the Egyptian Revolution. That story is bullshit. :thumbdown:
I say Missing white girl syndrome on the media's part lol.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

However, She was targeted not because she was a woman but because she represented an establishment Western piece of trash corporate "news" outlet ----MSNBC---- which repeatedly spreads lies and filth over the airwaves about the Middle East and U.S. foreign policy. :crying:
Interesting thing is, commentators on MSNBC have been more supportive than any other network for the working class in my state.

But anyhow:

Trying to justify assault like this in any way is bullshit.

[PhoenixAsh]

...don't you just hate it when blanket accusations of sexism, reactionary ideology, liberalism, crypto-[insert anything] and what not really get in the way of any meaningful discussion?

It seems to me that when a woman is involved in something bad this automatically means you have to negate any reality, go out of your way to say how awful it is or (preferably it seems: and) that it is just one more example of the patriarchy messing up intra people relations...instead of discussing the origins and nature of violence, the nature of people and why such events are used as top stories with relevance to a larger picture.

No...instead it always ends up in blanket accusations without ANY contentual arguments....to which everybody has to defend itself.

...now...I wonder how the reactions would be if a man got sexually assualted, a male reporter got killed in convering a war or something similar...the people in this thread who throw around these kind of accusations would be equally more combattative. Personally I do NOT see any difference with this case and any other involving bad shit happening to people.

Lets face it...shit happens. As I said...reporters get assaulted, molested, attacked, arrested and killed, etc, etc...on almost a daily basis.

WHY is this case different?
WHY is this case special?
WHY is it in this case you can not point out the fact that high risk carreers do tend to involve bad shit happening?

WHY is there even a thread on this case instead of the more impoprtant and pressing matter of how the press is treated and WHY the press is treated as such based on intelligent analysis?

[The Red Next Door]

You know, it does not matter what this woman politics is. She should have not been rape.

Yes, she work for lying piece of shit know as the mainstream media, but the lady was just doing her job thought.

Boy, we are going to have fun, if Gleen Beck, see this thread.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

...don't you just hate it when blanket accusations of sexism, reactionary ideology, liberalism, crypto-[insert anything] and what not really get in the way of any meaningful discussion?

It seems to me that when a woman is involved in something bad this automatically means you have to negate any reality, go out of your way to say how awful it is or (preferably it seems: and) that it is just one more example of the patriarchy messing up intra people relations...instead of discussing the origins and nature of violence, the nature of people and why such events are used as top stories with relevance to a larger picture.

No...instead it always ends up in blanket accusations without ANY contentual arguments....to which everybody has to defend itself.

...now...I wonder how the reactions would be if a man got sexually assualted, a male reporter got killed in convering a war or something similar...the people in this thread who throw around these kind of accusations would be equally more combattative. Personally I do NOT see any difference with this case and any other involving bad shit happening to people.

Lets face it...shit happens. As I said...reporters get assaulted, molested, attacked, arrested and killed, etc, etc...on almost a daily basis.

WHY is this case different?
WHY is this case special?
WHY is it in this case you can not point out the fact that high risk carreers do tend to involve bad shit happening?

WHY is there even a thread on this case instead of the more impoprtant and pressing matter of how the press is treated and WHY the press is treated as such based on intelligent analysis?
I stand against any and all sexual assault. Do you realize what it feels like to be a victim of sexual assault? I consider it worse than death. Just admit it, sexual assault is wrong no matter what.

[Widerstand]

...don't you just hate it when blanket accusations of sexism, reactionary ideology, liberalism, crypto-[insert anything] and what not really get in the way of any meaningful discussion?

It seems to me that when a woman is involved in something bad this automatically means you have to negate any reality, go out of your way to say how awful it is or (preferably it seems: and) that it is just one more example of the patriarchy messing up intra people relations...instead of discussing the origins and nature of violence, the nature of people and why such events are used as top stories with relevance to a larger picture.

No...instead it always ends up in blanket accusations without ANY contentual arguments....to which everybody has to defend itself.

...now...I wonder how the reactions would be if a man got sexually assualted, a male reporter got killed in convering a war or something similar...the people in this thread who throw around these kind of accusations would be equally more combattative. Personally I do NOT see any difference with this case and any other involving bad shit happening to people.

Lets face it...shit happens. As I said...reporters get assaulted, molested, attacked, arrested and killed, etc, etc...on almost a daily basis.

WHY is this case different?
WHY is this case special?
WHY is it in this case you can not point out the fact that high risk carreers do tend to involve bad shit happening?

WHY is there even a thread on this case instead of the more impoprtant and pressing matter of how the press is treated and WHY the press is treated as such based on intelligent analysis?

We don't know whether or not she was targeted for her journalist role.
Even if she was targeted for her journalist role, sexual assault is not a tolerable form of political violence, ever.


You know, it does not matter what this woman politics is. She should have not been rape.

I don't think any source said she was raped.

[9]

really, tho, the anti-sexist posturing competition can probably end now; I think the point has been made.

[PhoenixAsh]

I stand against any and all sexual assault. Do you realize what it feels like to be a victim of sexual assault? I consider it worse than death. Just admit it, sexual assault is wrong no matter what.

Yes I do.

I think any form of violence towards individuals is wrong.

The fact of the matter IMO is that it doesn't matter one iota if she was "sexually" assaulted or assaulted...and that this specific case is not noteworthy to sole out amongst the many, many examples of violence against journalists and civilians. The way this is "discussed" here gives the appearance that all we can do when a woman is involved is say: "ooooo....how bad, how awful" and not enter into any form of discussion or analysis of the rhime and reason behind it.

Personally...I think its bad for her. However she chose a profession (war correspondent) which brings about personal risk and involves putting yourself knowingly in high-risk situations.

If a cop gets shot in the line of duty this is a personal tragedy for the cop and his family. But it is a professional risk. I am not going to jump on the bandwagon and start crying about it. Same for soldiers. Same for people who voluntarily get in a car with a drunk driver which crashes.

You took a risk...result was bad.

For me it is not really relevant if she got tortured, sexually assaulted, beaten up or killed. I do not see how that is in any way shape or form relevant. Its violence all the same. Violence that should not have happened...but did.





You know, it does not matter what this woman politics is. She should have not been rape.

Yes, she work for lying piece of shit know as the mainstream media, but the lady was just doing her job thought.

Boy, we are going to have fun, if Gleen Beck, see this thread.


First...it is not rape.

Second...reality is not an ideal world. Journalists run risks and politics, race and nationality DO matter. We know this ourselves.

And as such it is not specifically note worthy is the assault was psychological or sexual. The added partition should not hamper debate on what we think are the reasons behind this specific attack amongst hundreds like them in the last month in Egypt.

Now...why was SHE singled out? What made HER different from several other female reporters, including other white women, and protesters that covered the news for Tahrir that day and that moment? Why did anger direct at her specifically?

[PhoenixAsh]

We don't know whether or not she was targeted for her journalist role. Even if she was targeted for her journalist role, sexual assault is not a tolerable form of political violence, ever.

What exactly is a tolerable form of violence? Would it have been ok if she was "simply" assaulted?

There were hundreds if not thousands of women on the square. Several female journalists were covering there. Some of these where white and some of these were also blonde. Most of them however had no such problems at that time.

So it logical to think that since hundreds of angry people directed their attention to this woman specifically there must have been some reason and motivation for it.