What divides communists?

[jmpeer]

After reading the threads "Ism Differences" and "Does Revleft Work," I'm under the impression that there aren't any significant issues that divide communists, rather, disagreement about labels and organization. What are some of the specific disagreements that divide communists?

[bricolage]

This is a minefield...
The role of the state... what even is the state?
Participation in parliamentary politics
Working within trade unions
Positions on national liberation
Positions on 'anti-fascism'
Role/structure of organisations
Role of militants (activists?)
Opinions on 'actually existing socialism'
RUSSIA
KRONSTADT
PEASANTS
GUNS
NEWSPAPERS

[ed miliband]

"The left"

[Clark]

"The Left"

"The Left" party in Germany? Elaborate.

Anyways, what divides the left IMO is in the debate about Marxism/Anarchism - misconceptions (seriously, the futile stuff Marx and Bakunin disagreed on was... nothing that could hinder working hand-in-hand together)

Then, in my honest opinion, and don't whip me for it, then there's the thing that divides stalinists from the rest of the left, that's the way their parties are led, mainly by petit-bourgeoise traitors who form the left wing of capital and see the utter crap the stalinist beaurocracy was in terms of political oppression and economic mismanagement(Call me a trotskyite first-world scum, I don't care) as heaven on earth, while other groupings of the left disagree on this.

Yeah.

[bricolage]

I'm under the impression that there aren't any significant issues that divide communists, rather, disagreement about labels and organization.
If you take every tendency, ideology, organisation and viewpoint that is posted on this forum as representing 'communists' then I would disagree with you, there are very many significant issues that divide 'us', the ones I posted are just some of them.

[ed miliband]

The Left party in Germany? Wut?

Not Die Linke, no.

Not all communists consider themselves to be of the left.

[Clark]

Not Die Linke, no.

Not all communists consider themselves to be of the left.

What do you consider yourself to be part of, then?

The right?

[ed miliband]

What do you consider yourself to be part of, then?

The right?

No, I just consider myself a communist. I see both left and right as wings of capital.

[jmpeer]

Yeah, I think I agree that it's misconceptions and nothing significant. Controversy on these kind of definitions, opinions, and history will exist regardless of the capitalist or communist framework.

[bricolage]

Yeah, I think I agree that it's misconceptions and nothing significant.
So do you think all of these are 'nothing significant';

The role of the state... what even is the state?
Participation in parliamentary politics
Working within trade unions
Positions on national liberation
Positions on 'anti-fascism'
Role/structure of organisations
Role of militants (activists?)
Opinions on 'actually existing socialism'

[Rafiq]

We are human beings. We all have different opinions and views on things. Take any Idealogy and tell me if their is no divide.

[jmpeer]

"Controversy on these kind of definitions, opinions, and history will exist regardless of the capitalist or communist framework." These aren't significant, ideological differences. There aren't 1001 ways to implement communist or democratic economic and political systems, at least easily distinguishable ones. The majority knows what they want, politics aren't new and revolutionary anymore. There's just no coordination amongst communists.

[Zanthorus]

Er, yeah, when your cadre are harrassed and even murdered by so-called Marxist-Leninists for being agents of German Imperialism, when your militants are harrassed and threatened by so-called Marxist-Leninist and probably accurately named Maoists for being against peasant-based revolutions, when your ideological opponents are forming alliances with bourgeois parties and the so-called workers' state they support has becoming integrated into the system of World-Imperialism, when they dissolve any semblance of international co-ordination and become 'National Communists' that's sort of the signal to say that you've gone waaaaaaayyyyyyy beyond definitional disputes.

[Amphictyonis]

History, ego's personality cults. Living in the past. Focusing on past transgressions. We all need to apply Marxism and Anarchism to modern day conditions. Like Zinn said:

DbaizDSg1YU
But first we'd have to purge the Maoists and fake ass Trot revisionists and put them in the gulag with the anarchists. Maybe waterboard some elderly people for the hell of it? They're all guilty of something.

[Queercommie Girl]

This is a minefield...
The role of the state... what even is the state?
Participation in parliamentary politics
Working within trade unions
Positions on national liberation
Positions on 'anti-fascism'
Role/structure of organisations
Role of militants (activists?)
Opinions on 'actually existing socialism'
RUSSIA
KRONSTADT
PEASANTS
GUNS
NEWSPAPERS

My own opinions on these: (just for the record)

1) Role of the State - this is a semantical point. Marxism defines the "state" as the structure by which one class oppresses another. The "state" in this sense would obviously disappear under communism, but the organisations and structures of the Soviets, based on the Leninist principle of democratic centralism, are completely eternal. Communism must have a highly efficient political and social organisation.

2) Parliamentary Politics - I am a supporter of Trotskyist entryism and transitional programmes in advanced democratic capitalist countries. I basically completely agree with the approaches of organisations like the CWI and the mass worker's parties, like the United Left Alliance in Ireland, that they are trying to create. Genuine Marxists must support both parliamentary and street politics in advanced democratic capitalist countries.

3) Trade Unions - I believe most Trade Union leaders in advanced capitalist countries have generally pro-capitalist stances, but I'm still a supporter of bottom-up Trade Unionism and fighting for Trade Union democracy. Political work within the Trade Unions is extremely important in advanced capitalist countries.

4) National Liberation - I am a supporter of National Liberation movements generally, but I don't believe national rights are absolute, and I think class rights generally over-ride national rights. So I don't necessarily support national struggles in every situation. I also oppose Western imperialism-backed separatist movements in deformed worker's states/Stalinist states.

5) Anti-Fascism - I am a firm anti-fascist. I believe fascism is the worst kind of capitalism and I reject the ultra-leftist line that "everything that is non-socialist must be essentially equally reactionary". For me "progressive" and "reactionary" are always relative. So yes I believe in allying with bourgeois anti-fascist forces in many circumstances. If there is a war between a Nazi state and US imperialism, I would partly support US imperialism as the "lesser evil".

6) Organisational Structure - I believe in general worker's democracy, but within a firm and clear organisational framework. I also support democratic centralism.

7) Activism - I am generally pacifist but I am certainly not an absolute pacifist by any means. My rule of thumb is "legal when possible, illegal when necessary" and "peaceful when possible, violent when necessary". I oppose the glorification of violent power in every circumstance. The party must forever control the gun. If the party does not control the gun, it is better to simply have no gun.

8) Actually Existing Socialism - I am Trotskyism-leaning but I reject the theory of "state-capitalism". So for me most "actually existing socialist states" are deformed worker's states. But unlike pure Trotskyists, I am also partly Maoist and I don't completely reject Stalin.

9) Russia - I largely agree with the orthodox Trotskyist analysis (i.e. the "deformed worker's state" theory) of the Russian revolution. The only differences are 1) I don't completely reject anarchism so I don't believe Lenin was "perfect"; 2) I don't completely reject Stalin; and 3) I am also influenced by the Maoist doctrine of revisionism so my analysis of the Soviet Union is a mixture of Trotskyist and Maoist approaches to some extent.

10) Kronstadt - I am certainly not an anarchist but I am not anti-anarchist either. At the moment I don't have a conclusive opinion on this event. But I firmly believe that even if Lenin and Trotsky were wrong, this single incident is certainly not sufficient to negate the overall progressive legacy of the great October Revolution.

11) Peasants - I agree with the Maoist line that the working class is the leading class, and the peasantry is the semi-leading class. I disagree with those Marxists who completely dismiss the revolutionary potential of the peasantry.

12) Guns - I support the right to own arms in principle, but it would depend on the situation as well.

13) Newspapers - I completely support the freedom of the press. I am politically a Leninist but culturally I am an anarchist. Cultural freedom should be absolute as long as it's not anti-socialist and discriminatory. (Racist/Sexist/Queerphobic) I don't believe the socialist government should "evangelise" a singular "official socialist culture". There is simply no such thing as "socialist culture" in the singular narrow sense.

[The Man]

Gun Rights, Unions, and things like should we abolish the state immediately or create a Dictatorship of the Proletariat usually divide the left.

[Across The Street]

Amphictyonis: "But first we'd have to purge the Maoists and fake ass Trot revisionists and put them in the gulag with the anarchists. Maybe waterboard some elderly people for the hell of it? They're all guilty of something."


I always thought you were an asshole, and not even pleasant to be around. Now I know it without a doubt. Seriously, when you try to silence anarchists and commit torture, I'll be there to ***** slap you.

[28350]

Amphictyonis: "But first we'd have to purge the Maoists and fake ass Trot revisionists and put them in the gulag with the anarchists. Maybe waterboard some elderly people for the hell of it? They're all guilty of something."

I always thought you were an asshole, and not even pleasant to be around. Now I know it without a doubt. Seriously, when you try to silence anarchists and commit torture, I'll be there to ***** slap you.

This was a joke, but domestic violence isn't.