Anonymous vs. Aporrea?

[el_chavista]

These last 2 weeks, "APORREA" (Asamblea POpulaR REvolucionariA, "revolutionary popular assembly") the Venezuelan leftist web site and its forum have been repetitively attacked by hackers. The main page seems to have survived but the forum did not, it lost its database.

The remarkable thing about this is that the Aporrea administration blames on "Anonymous" and its erroneously political characterization of this page as the culprit of the cyber-attacks.

Isn't "anonymous" a mass noun for any community on-line, including hacktivists? So, whom is Aporrea blaming on?

[RedScare]

Anonymous is a loose group based on 4chan. They've targeted Scientology, and various financial and government pages over the Wikileaks thing, they're not very political in the real sense, they're just kinda libertarianish, and support piracy and freedom of information. I don't know why they would go after a Venezuelan leftist website, I haven't heard anything about it, and it's not really part of the issues they usually care about.

[Dimentio]

The Swedish section of anonymous has been active in bullying a friend of mine to the point that he attempted suicide.

Anyone could join Anonymous for whatever purpose. A lot of the discussions on their channels and forums pertain issues like porn, weapons, sexism and racism. They are mainly suburban white kids.

I imagine that the Venezuelan section of Anonymous is pretty reactionary, given the class interests of the Venezuelan Middle Class, which despite subsidised cell-phones are associating their interests to the Bourgeoisie visavi "the rabble".

[Die Neue Zeit]

Um, why don't you guys counter-hack the bastards?

[Dimentio]

Um, why don't you guys counter-hack the bastards?

Because it is impossible to know who they are and because they don't really care for their own websites. They want to destroy, not to build.

Frequent issues for them are:

Freedom of Information (Progressive)

Freedom to download music and films freely (Progressive)

Anti-feminism

Anti-Political correctness

Pro-racism

Pro-bullying

Pro-pornography

Just look at freaking 4/chan and "/b".

[Victus Mortuum]

Anonymous is not a group or an organization or a political ideology. Anonymous is a method of organizing collective behavior that is utilized by many.

Recently, Anonymous has been involved with OpItaly and OpIran. An Anonymous operation is as effective as it is appealing to people with a computer that hear about the operation.

[The Douche]

Because it is impossible to know who they are and because they don't really care for their own websites. They want to destroy, not to build.

Frequent issues for them are:

Freedom of Information (Progressive)

Freedom to download music and films freely (Progressive)

Anti-feminism

Anti-Political correctness

Pro-racism

Pro-bullying

Pro-pornography

Just look at freaking 4/chan and "/b".

I don't find this to be particularly accurate.

Anonymous will attack whatever they can be convinced to attack. So if somebody makes a case to hack some website, however many people agree go do it, and maybe a lot agreed, and maybe only a few.

So it is possible to have progressive/revolutionary types involved, reactionary types, and people just doing it cause they like fucking with people.

[RedScare]

Also, the racism and sexism is played more for shock humor than a genuine expression of values

[castlebravo]

heh it might be from their operation venezuela subop which was started because of the internet regulation laws passed in december

[No Ha Muerto]

I think Anon is far too decentralized and disorganized to be effective; sure, they can ddos a website for a few days, release e-mails on the internet, but the decentralized nature of the attacks makes them temporary inconveniences at best.

From what I understand from an acquaintance who has dabbled with anon at times, they're mostly computer-obsessed adolescents (hence the rather annoying Guy Fawkes theme: yes, V for Vendetta was a decent movie, but the man wanted to impose an absolutist catholic monarchy on England) who think they are the secret army of the internets.

[RedHal]

Also, the racism and sexism is played more for shock humor than a genuine expression of values

well if you think racism and sexism is funny, doesn't it say something about your values? I guess it's funny to middle class suburban white boys

[Victus Mortuum]

hence the rather annoying Guy Fawkes theme: yes, V for Vendetta was a decent movie, but the man wanted to impose an absolutist catholic monarchy on England

That's the irony. A "revolutionary" who was trying to destroy a dictatorship...and establish a new dictatorship...and failed totally. V turned it around and was supposed to be an anarchist opposed to the fascist state in the comics - the movie turned it into a neocon v. neolib type opposition instead.

Another random note (sorry, I'm a big fan of the movie):

The song remember, remember, the fifth of november was a song sung by the anti-catholics, not by supporters of Guy Fawkes. More irony.

[Princess Luna]

Um, why don't you guys counter-hack the bastards?
as the recent HBGary "incedent" shows trying (or even threatening) to attack Anonymous will backfire horribly for you.

well if you think racism and sexism is funny, doesn't it say something about your values? I guess it's funny to middle class suburban white boys
the racism and sexism isn't meant to be funny , peoples reactions to it are.
they also make fun of white people and men as well
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/White_people
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Men

[Apoi_Viitor]

Because it is impossible to know who they are and because they don't really care for their own websites. They want to destroy, not to build.

Frequent issues for them are:

Freedom of Information (Progressive)

Freedom to download music and films freely (Progressive)

Anti-feminism

Anti-Political correctness

Pro-racism

Pro-bullying

Pro-pornography

Just look at freaking 4/chan and "/b".

This isn't really true. Anonymous has always been primarily focused on anti-censorship and freedom of information, but besides that, there's no real consensus on any other issue. Some activities attributed to "anonymous" were racist, but then again, "anonymous" were responsible for taking down Hal Turner.

[RedScare]

well if you think racism and sexism is funny, doesn't it say something about your values? I guess it's funny to middle class suburban white boys
I didn't say I agreed with it, or that I thought it was funny, I simply stated why they do it. Thanks for being so quick to judge me, incorrectly.

[Dimentio]

They do not have a racist ideology or programme, by the merit that they don't have any ideology or programme.

Nevertheless, racism, sexism, ableism and just general plain bullying is a part of the culture prevalent in those circles.

[the last donut of the night]

I myself go on /b/ quite often, usually every day or so. While I despise the racism, sexism, and homophobia that quite literally fuels the site (quite literally, as many memes from /b/ are based on bigotry), I occasionally find some funny image macros and stuff on there. But that's it. Now, however, most people on this thread have some misconceptions on Anonymous and /b/ in general. Most of /b/ kind of hates Anonymous, even though /b/ likes to pride itself on anon. Anonymous is just a loosely given name to any troll/hacket/internet asshole that comes out of 4chan. Defining it is useless, because it's not even a group. Anonymous is just a group of random people over the internet, and only idiots take pride in being a part of it. As someone who has said here, anon is just a method used to annoy other people in the internet. Those who do take part in the anti-censorship missions and raids are pretty much hated, and called moralfags (the name given to anyone who tries to convince /b/ to do something right, really). There's no central mission, no ideology. So you kinda see that /b/ and anon aren't always the same thing. This is not really to make apologies for /b/ or anon. It's just how they act.

[Blackscare]

Yes, as YHLO said, "Anon" and 4chan's /b/ aren't closely tied, less so than in the past actually. There are other chans that focus more heavily on the whole anon thing.



I tend to view anon not as a group, or even an appendage of the "chan culture", but something closer to a natural disaster. Individuals are meaningless when talking about anon, as is speculating on their overall motivations. It's a simple law that has made itself apparent; the facilitation of communication on a massive scale allows for spontaneous acts of defiance/aggression from various percentages of the internet, according of course to the nature of the issue. Some anons may hate hal turner, some may hate code pink, some may apparently hate Venezuelan leftist groups, it doesn't matter. Any issue or group that has a presence on the internet, which means everything essentially, is now vulnerable to spontaneous mass attack. Think less Bolshevik, more El Nino.

[the last donut of the night]

Yes, as YHLO said, "Anon" and 4chan's /b/ aren't closely tied, less so than in the past actually. There are other chans that focus more heavily on the whole anon thing.



I tend to view anon not as a group, or even an appendage of the "chan culture", but something closer to a natural disaster. Individuals are meaningless when talking about anon, as is speculating on their overall motivations. It's a simple law that has made itself apparent; the facilitation of communication on a massive scale allows for spontaneous acts of defiance/aggression from various percentages of the internet, according of course to the nature of the issue. Some anons may hate hal turner, some may hate code pink, some may apparently hate Venezuelan leftist groups, it doesn't matter. Any issue or group that has a presence on the internet, which means everything essentially, is now vulnerable to spontaneous mass attack. Think less Bolshevik, more El Nino.

This. Anyone with a basic knowledge of /b/ and anon knows this, I think. Even the people who see themselves as part of Anonymous admit that they don't really work for any ideology, purpose, goal, unless it is trolling. It's a random collection of people, and what they attack depends on how they feel that day.

[NGNM85]

I must say I was impressed with their campaign against the Church of Scientology; both in terms of it's simplicity and it's effectiveness. I think these techniques could prove valuable in a multitude of applications.

[Red Commissar]

"Anon" isn't one coherent group, though there are some pages where a number of them organize to coordinate attacks on certain places.

I think what ever happened here may've been some copycats trying to hit other "dictatorships" after the activities in Egypt. Some of these types run the gambit of being casual progressives to "libertarians", but in this range you generally do not find much sympathy for Chavez or associated groups.

[the last donut of the night]

I must say I was impressed with their campaign against the Church of Scientology; both in terms of it's simplicity and it's effectiveness. I think these techniques could prove valuable in a multitude of applications.

lol aside from your unreasonable attacks on religion, you have just shown you know pretty little about Anonymous.

[Edge1905]

The thing is - many people like to associate Anonymous with this or that political view, but the truth is: They have no particular political view. Do not expect any sense from Anonymous. They are scattered all over 20 channels or more on a IRC network, it's a totally decentralized thing. If someone posts a certain website suggesting it to be targeted and at least 10% of the online anons at the moment like the idea, the site is going down. But naturally that do not represent the opinion of the whole group.


On a side note, they ruin V for Vendetta's Guy Fawkes mask meaning :(

[NGNM85]

lol aside from your unreasonable attacks on religion, you have just shown you know pretty little about Anonymous.

Nothing I've said about religion is 'unreasonable.'

As far as I'm aware, Anonymous is a barely organized group, or groups of computer geeks and 'cyber- activists' operating under a common banner. I also know that the Church of Scientology is seriously threatened by them, with good reason. They managed to create several global protests involving as many as 8,000 people with, seemingly, no organizational infrastructure, at virtually no cost. That's interesting for two reasons; first, the Church of Scientology is a nefarious cult, so, that's just super, also that they were able to arrange something like this using such cheap, ubiquitous resources.

[chebol]

The Aporrea article:

“Anonymous” attacks free expression of the Venezuelan grassroots movement
Zuleika Matamoros, Aporrea.org, Feb 14 (Translated by Kiraz Janicke)
http://www.aporrea.org/medios/n174872.html (http://www.aporrea.org/medios/n174872.html)

In recent days, the aporrea.org web page has been targeted by an organization called Anonymous, which has resulted in our page "dropping out" on a daily basis.


This virtual "organization" has assumed the "right" to hack the page in Venezuela, which is a voice for people's struggles. We are millions of "anonymous" people, those of us who carry out the work of reporting and discussing opinions on this page. Principally because Aporrea.org was born precisely in the heart of grassroots/popular organization (the Revolutionary People's Assembly), and has been adopted as the voice of many other labor, peasant and neighborhood organisations... which emerged after the coup d’etat carried out by the rightwing , which was an attack against our revolutionary process, and showed no understanding of the self-determination of peoples and the struggle for a different world but, unfortunately, seems to have resonance with some who call themselves progressive and democratic.

Millions of anonymous people actually do not have space in traditional media. On the one hand the opposition media use our struggles to attack the revolutionary process. On the other hand, we have the state media, which although it does not respond to an ideology of right, corresponds to a logic imposed by the bureaucracy. It is in this context that we see the importance of spaces such as Aporrea, in which grassroots workers, the popular, peasant, indigenous and student movements can visualize our struggles, our contributions, and our criticisms from the left, with the sole aim that our revolutionary process deepens further each day.


Aporrea.org, is one of the few media outlets that has a consistently democratic and record of class independence, that is respectful of unity in diversity of the left, resulting in unrestricted support for all our struggles ... the struggles we fight each day against capital and its perverse logic.

Anonymous should understand that the Venezuelan process has nothing to do with dictators. This is an unsubstantiated claim. How can Anonymous appropriate for themselves the right to curtail freedom of expression and sabotage freedom of expression?

It must be said, Anonymous, that we understand perfectly what freedom of expression means and how dictatorial regimes have acted in relation to this issue, the most emblematic case we have is with the revolution that is unfolding in Egypt and how the dictator Mubarak closed all access to the Internet.
Similarly, that which we experienced on April 11 [2002, during the attempted coup against Chavez] when the traditional rightwing and lackeys of the empire denied us the right to freedom of expression and information by closing our state and grassroots media and sought to impose a dictatorship that was defeated by the Bolivarian people that went out to defeat them and rescue Chávez as the President who they freely chose. Is that a sign that Chavez is a dictator? Perhaps you don’t understand the difference between dictatorships and democratic processes?
We also say to you Anonymous, from Aporrea.org, that your characterizations and your actions, that are disconnected from the struggles of the people resemble bureaucratic logic in which your conclusions are the “truths” and as a result you take actions that have nothing to do with our realities and our desires as a people.
This decision to attack Aporrea is so petty-bourgeois, Anonymous does not understand that to sabotage Aporrea.org is to deny the possibility that workers' organizations can visualize their struggles against exploitation, capitalism and its dominant ideology through one of the principal organs of information and opinion of our revolutionary process.
Nor do they understand our struggle for the recognition of indigenous lands or to defeat the landlord mafias that threaten the food sovereignty of our people and who carry out assassinations against our peasant fighters or our students struggle against an oppressive and outdated educational system. These are just some examples to what is now a sort of "caste" that seems to have ensconced itself within "Anonymous", which groups some of those that are trying to shut us down.
Members of Anonymous the only thing left to say to you is that your behaviour is profoundly individualistic, you are only interested in your isolated “little struggle” as you say, against the "dictatorship" in Venezuela, which in this case is frankly mistaken. This process, which has become known as the Bolivarian revolution, was born from the genuine struggles of the people, precisely, since February 1989 [the Caracazo uprising], and it is still going strong.

You project the bourgeois behavior of those who believe that everything is resolved with actions that are far removed from popular organization and instead managed unilaterally. You start from a wrong characterization of this government, which you call a "dictatorship", and ignore the reality of an unfinished process that, because of this, is full of contradictions, of advances and setbacks.

You have no relation with those of us, who, being consistently revolutionary and class conscious, mobilize and act in the framework of support for this process so that it advances, and deepens, those who are fighting against capitalism and its mechanisms of exploitation and domination, in real life communities, organizations and groups and not only through "cyberspace" behind a computer screen, anonymously and perhaps even quite comfortably. You have no relation to those people who rose up on February 27 [during the Caracazo uprising of 1989] and decided never to return to the past, the same people that came out onto the streets on April 13 [the popular rebellion against the U.S backed coup of 2002] to tell the rightwing that we would not accept more dictatorships in this country!

We show our face, we don’t hide it. Those who are unable today to talk about democracy, because they are against it and against our people (the right wing opposition and imperialism), appear to have convinced you to attack us, must be rejoicing and applauding. "Thank you for the services,” they’ll think. Anonymous, with this attitude you are disregarding the working class and the popular movement that came out and defeated the bourgeois oil sabotage in December 2002 and January2003, which was aimed not only to overthrow Chavez, but attacked the people themselves, leaving us for about two months with no oil, no food, no medicine, no fuel.... but with our dignity intact to defend our sovereignty!

To Anonymous we say to you we believe in revolutionary internationalism and for that it is necessary to engage directly with the experiences of the people and their revolutionary processes that aim to overthrow capitalism. Anonymous we ask you, by attacking us; really which side do you believe you’re on? According to your behaviour, in Venezuela you are on the side of the historic enemy: Capitalism and the oppressor classes who invaded and impoverished our peoples. Anonymous we ask you if its correct to characterize this administration as "dictatorial" and to pave the way for those who ignore the decisions of the working people, who have handed this country on a silver platter to U.S. imperialism, to those throughout history have tortured, killed and imprisoned us and today shamelessly speak of “democracy.”

In addition,Anonymousyou do not evendistinguish betweenthe Chavez governmentandthe grassroots alternative media of the revolutionaryBolivarian process, such asAporrea.organdincludeusinyour listoftargetstoattack,as ifwe wereanofficial pageof the government,far fromthat, Aporrea isautonomousand isoneof themost dynamic centersofcriticaldebateabout the Venezuelan revolutionand the Chavez's government itself.


Anonymous we also have to say that we hope your behavior towards us is the product of a mischaracterization of the Venezuelan process and the social subjects involved in it (a serious and embarrassing error) or the result of a simplistic and superficial (irresponsible) view, we hope you are from some [I]albeit strange trend on the left that is temporarily affected by a misunderstanding or manipulation, and we hope that you will reflect, discuss and debate about what is really happening in Venezuela, about what Aporrea.org is and on the meaning and consequences of what you are doing, and that you don’t place yourselves on the side of the oppressor, the false Venezuelan "democrats" who on one hand condemn Chávez then on the other go out to protest in the ranks of the rightwing opposition and wave North American flags.

And in that sense we invite you to stopbeing "anonymous" and act in your own name, with those of us who know that there is no solution for this world in the framework of capitalism, with those who do not fall intomaneuvers and manipulations of its political operatives.We also hope that youremove any doubt about which side you are on, speak out publicly about Aporrea.org and the Venezuelan process ... and do something to redress the disadvantages caused. If not, then we will understand which side you are on, therefore, we say that Aporrea.org will not be sabotaged or shutdown so easily, because you are not confronting the rightwing which cowardly attacks the people through imperial hegemony, but are facing a democratic workers' and popular alternative media outlet, the structure of which is precisely based in the working class, student movement, peasant and community organisations, who every day and hour of their life struggle to the death against capital and its rightwing ideology.