What's the end result of anti-India terror from Pakistan?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I've been thinking about the instability in Pakistan, and the fact that the Pakistani government seemed to be completely unwilling to go after those responsible for the terrorist attacks in Mumbai two years ago.

I can tell you, I was in India during the attacks, and there was a lot of push (especially on the Indian Hindu Rightwing) to attack Pakistan to punish them (this was just the latest of many pretty brutal attacks to come out of Pakistan against Indians). The Indian Center, under the INC, didn't want to attack Pakistan because of the fear of a wider (nuclear?) war and because Pakistan promised to punish those responsible and hamstring the organizations. It spent a lot of political capital maintaining the peaceful line between the nations (for all the faults of the INC).

Instead of arresting and extraditing the murderers responsible, the Pakistani government refused to extradite the leaders of the terrorist groups, and instead let those people go unpunished, presumably to go out and organize more attacks.

Considering:

(1) Pakistan is less stable now than it was in 2008
(2) Many Pakistanis have an uncritical paranoid view of the world, granted this has been exacerbated by drone bombings and the perception of destroyed sovereignty (some amazingly high % of Pakistanis actually took the laughably absurd view of blaming Mossad on the Mumbai attacks)
(3) The Indian National Congress is facing political problems due to high inflation
(4) Indian and Pakistani imperial (or counter imperial, depending on who you ask) pretentions against each other in Balochistan and Kashmir

Then

(1) Could the INC push back against the gut nationalist push at revenge over another Pakistani attack?
(2) Would a Pakistani government have the political capital either to prevent an attack before it happens, or extradite the terrorists to India after an attack?
(3) If Pakistan refuses to punish the terrorists, will it either lead to war or the takeover of a rightwing-nationalist and possibly even anti-Muslim political force in India?
(4) Is there a possibility of State-State peace between Pakistan and India, even if there is not a civic peace, and could that lead to Pakistan and India changing their state policies which exacerbate the conflict?
(5) How should Socialists respond to the instability between these two great nations (or one great nation sundered into three by history), when the vast majority are the millions on both sides who are innocent?

[scarletghoul]

As an outside observer, it seems that the Indian bourgeoisie is making Pakistan out to be some kind of evil bogeyman.. In fact the terrorist attacks in Mumbai were motivated by the Indian occupation of Kashmir (the terrorists even said so), but the Indian establishment likes to ignore this and point the finger at pakistan. I've even read ridiculous stories about the ISI allying with the Naxals, and so on. In other words Pakistan is being used as a scapegoat when the real problems are with India itself.

there is often a thinly veiled Hindu chauvinism behind this anti-Pakistan hysteria too, it seems

[red cat]

1) Both the Indian and Pakistani ruling classes use each other to divert the attention of the masses from the real issues. The wars and terrorist attacks ultimately help both to strengthen their fascist rule over the masses.

2) The oppressed masses of India and Pakistan are friends and class-brothers. Their respective governments that poison their minds are the principal enemies of both.

3) The Indian and Pakistani masses will have to overthrow the running dogs of imperialism that rule them and establish genuine people's power in both the countries to end the age old conflict initiated by imperialism and fundamentalist fascists.

[L.A.P.]

As an outside observer, it seems that the Indian bourgeoisie is making Pakistan out to be some kind of evil bogeyman.. In fact the terrorist attacks in Mumbai were motivated by the Indian occupation of Kashmir (the terrorists even said so), but the Indian establishment likes to ignore this and point the finger at pakistan. I've even read ridiculous stories about the ISI allying with the Naxals, and so on. In other words Pakistan is being used as a scapegoat when the real problems are with India itself.

there is often a thinly veiled Hindu chauvinism behind this anti-Pakistan hysteria too, it seems

You have no idea what you are talking about, Pakistan is a US-backed state that has caused a lot of trouble in India and they're not being made out as a boogeyman when you are killed for being Hindu in Pakistan while India welcomes their Muslim population yet India has the Hindu chauvinism? India may just be another capitalist state that has the ruling class oppress its masses but fuck the Pakistani government, almost every terrorist attack and such have been initiated by Pakistan while India sits there and takes it for the most part. Also, who's to say that Pakistan has any more of a right to occupy Kashmir than India does?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

As an outside observer, it seems that the Indian bourgeoisie is making Pakistan out to be some kind of evil bogeyman.. In fact the terrorist attacks in Mumbai were motivated by the Indian occupation of Kashmir (the terrorists even said so), but the Indian establishment likes to ignore this and point the finger at pakistan. I've even read ridiculous stories about the ISI allying with the Naxals, and so on. In other words Pakistan is being used as a scapegoat when the real problems are with India itself.


Well, Pakistanis complaining about Indian Imperialism in Kashmir is hypocritical, considering (1) Kashmiris want Azadi (not to be part of Pakistan, and Pakistan DOES occupy half of Kashmir too), (2) Pakistan acted imperially towards E Pakistan, which became Bangladesh, and (3) Pakistan continues to act imperially in Balochistan.

Either way, 200 people were gunned down in Mumbai, and even if the terrorist attacks were motivated by Kashmir, terrorism is never a constructive way to deal with an occupation. As it was, attacking Mumbai merely heightens Indian nationalism, and reduces the political capacity for any democratically elected Indian government to decolonialize Kashmir.

Anyway, the Kashmir problem is deeply multifaceted. People often forget about Hindus in Jammu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammu_and_Kashmir) (southern Kashmir), and the many thousands of Hindu Pandits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_Pandit#Exodus_.281985-1995.29) violently forced out of Kashmir during the conflict by angry Muslims (who are an inconvenient rallying cry for obnoxious Hindu chauvinists), and who continue to demand rights to return to Kashmir. The brutal violence of terrorism is not the fine tool required to fix the complicated problem of Kashmir.

One can think of Kashmir as a giant Kosovo. In Kosovo, the majority Albanians declared independence, and had a right to do so considering the brutality of Slobo's government. However, in the process, giving independence to Kosovo also gave Serb-populated areas, and property held by Serb natives who had left the area, to a new state with a nationality deeply suspicious of their motives.



there is often a thinly veiled Hindu chauvinism behind this anti-Pakistan hysteria too, it seems

This cuts both ways. It seems a reasonable majority of Pakistanis hate the "Kafir" far more than Indians hate Muslims, though I imagine this has more to do with the history of Saudi ideological influence via US- and Saudi-funded anti-Soviet efforts in Afghanistan. For evidence of this, look no farther than the recent decision to execute a Christian woman for "insulting Muhammad", and the fact that the governor who wanted to change the blasphemy law was actually gunned down by his security guard. Look also at the brutal attacks against shiite muslims and other sects of Islam, which seem to go completely unpunished by the Pakistani government (for its faults, India *eventually* arrested the Saffron (Hindu) Terrorists responsible for attacking Indian Muslims)

Hindu chauvinism is a huge problem in India, but it comes out of a long and complicated historical context. Either way, these kinds of terrorist attacks merely make Hindu conservatives more chauvinistic, and the Hindu population even more vulnerable to that rhetoric. And certainly, with enough terror from Pakistan, and eventually you will have a pro-war BJP government in office.


So the question still stands, why the @#$% doesn't the pakistani government arrest these fools before they start WWIII (or WWIV/WWV depending on your definition)

Edit-response to red cat


1) Both the Indian and Pakistani ruling classes use each other to divert the attention of the masses from the real issues. The wars and terrorist attacks ultimately help both to strengthen their fascist rule over the masses.

2) The oppressed masses of India and Pakistan are friends and class-brothers. Their respective governments that poison their minds are the principal enemies of both.

3) The Indian and Pakistani masses will have to overthrow the running dogs of imperialism that rule them and establish genuine people's power in both the countries to end the age old conflict initiated by imperialism and fundamentalist fascists.

My fear is that Pakistanis are too caught up and faithful in the pseudo-fascist rhetoric that their ruling classes have written (that Mossad causes all their problems, that India is conspiring with the rest of the world to destroy Pakistan, etc) that they will be unable to progress, much as the sections of the German working class which were duped in the 30s. Say what you will about Indians and their relationship with the ruling classes, it seems that in India the ruling classes are more divided amongst themselves and so there is no one propagandistic narrative drawing the people along.

Anyways, I may be wrong, it's all just a historical process.

[red cat]

Indian comrades here should take care to reconsider their stand. We communists put class politics in command. We have to see through the false propaganda by the Indian government.


You have no idea what you are talking about, Pakistan is a US-backed state that has caused a lot of trouble in India and they're not being made out as a boogeyman when you are killed for being Hindu in Pakistan while India welcomes their Muslim population yet India has the Hindu chauvinism?

What kind of "welcoming" led to the Gujrat riots ? Why in practice is an average Muslim considered a second class citizen in India ?


India may just be another capitalist state that has the ruling class oppress its masses but fuck the Pakistani government, almost every terrorist attack and such have been initiated by Pakistan while India sits there and takes it for the most part. Also, who's to say that Pakistan has any more of a right to occupy Kashmir than India does?

Both occupy Kashmir against the will of the Kashmiris. But go and talk to some inhabitants of Kashmir, and they will tell you that the Pakistani army is nowhere near to the Indian army in committing gang-rapes and murders. Most Kashmiris don't hate India more than Pakistan just for nothing.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Both occupy Kashmir against the will of the Kashmiris. But go and talk to some inhabitants of Kashmir, and they will tell you that the Pakistani army is nowhere near to the Indian army in committing gang-rapes and murders. Most Kashmiris don't hate India more than Pakistan just for nothing.

It does sound like the Indian army is rotten in Kashmir. But the Pakistani army seems no better in Balochistan, and Pakistani behavior in Bangladesh was horrific. Also at Pakistani imperialism in Afghanistan.

This doesn't excuse either nation of course. But I think that's whats interesting, both nations are deeply hypocritical in their accusations of "Imperialism".

[red cat]

It does sound like the Indian army is rotten in Kashmir. But the Pakistani army seems no better in Balochistan, and Pakistani behavior in Bangladesh was horrific. Also at Pakistani imperialism in Afghanistan.

I am sure that both are likely to react with an equal amount of barbarism when confronted by mass struggles, but as of now, considering places like Kashmir, or Dandakaranya right inside India, the savagery of the Indian state forces is yet to be matched by their Pakistani counterparts.


This doesn't excuse either nation of course. But I think that's whats interesting, both nations are deeply hypocritical in their accusations of "Imperialism".If we take into account the effect of this propaganda on an average upper or middle-class Indian or a Pakistani, does it not become very clear why the India-Pakistan conflict is necessary for both of these oppressive states to survive ?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

If we take into account the effect of this propaganda on an average upper or middle-class Indian or a Pakistani, does it not become very clear why the India-Pakistan conflict is necessary for both of these oppressive states to survive ?

This is true. However, peace between both states is necessary for bourgeoise growth and enrichment too. My issue in Pakistan is that the mainstream propaganda has a more paranoid religious overtone and a tendency to believe wild conspiracy theories.


I am sure that both are likely to react with an equal amount of barbarism when confronted by mass struggles, but as of now, considering places like Kashmir, or Dandakaranya right inside India, the savagery of the Indian state forces is yet to be matched by their Pakistani counterparts.

Tough to verify either way. But we also know that few journalists actually see what's going on in Balochistan.

[red cat]

This is true. However, peace between both states is necessary for bourgeoise growth and enrichment too.

None of these two states can have national bourgeois growth because imperialism controls both. Due to the inability of the national bourgeoisie to lead a revolution, one conducted by the broad masses led by the proletariat is the only possibility.


My issue in Pakistan is that the mainstream propaganda has a more paranoid religious overtone and a tendency to believe wild conspiracy theories.


I won't comment directly on this, as I have never been to Pakistan. But I doubt whether religious fundamentalism can exceed what happens in most parts of India. Also, about conspiracy theories, recall how Maoists in the 60s were successfully labeled as "agents of China". A similar attempt to link them with Lashkar e Toiba failed due to the advanced stage of the people's war and democratic mass movements. Even then, false accusations like the Jnaneshwari Express massacre etc. continue to dominate much of the anti-Maoist propaganda.


Tough to verify either way. But we also know that few journalists actually see what's going on in Balochistan.

My point was that even taking Balochistan into consideration, the Indian state forces surpass the Pakistani ones in terms of brutality if you sum up the incidents in Kashmir, the north-east and red zones.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

None of these two states can have national bourgeois growth because imperialism controls both. Due to the inability of the national bourgeoisie to lead a revolution, one conducted by the broad masses led by the proletariat is the only possibility.


Maybe, but every national bourgeoise is different in nature (and are usually diverse in of themselves).



I won't comment directly on this, as I have never been to Pakistan. But I doubt whether religious fundamentalism can exceed what happens in most parts of India. Also, about conspiracy theories, recall how Maoists in the 60s were successfully labeled as "agents of China". A similar attempt to link them with Lashkar e Toiba failed due to the advanced stage of the people's war and democratic mass movements. Even then, false accusations like the Jnaneshwari Express massacre etc. continue to dominate much of the anti-Maoist propaganda.


I remember that train attack-what was the official maoist line on it? I heard that it was a militia that sometimes associated themselves with the maoists.

Anyway, its not as much of a leap to think that Maoists might be connected to China, than to think that Mossad organized a raid of terrorists against Mumbai to collapse Pakistan.



My point was that even taking Balochistan into consideration, the Indian state forces surpass the Pakistani ones in terms of brutality if you sum up the incidents in Kashmir, the north-east and red zones.

(1) That's not fair, India's 5x as big, and Pakistan definitely has plenty of horrible atrocities in its history, from East Pakistan to Waziristan

(2) Arithmetically counting it is a pointless activity, it really doesn't tell you anything, especially because both sides have the same or similar structural motives in this violence. What's interesting is that Pakistani intelligence seems either complicit in or politically beholden to certain terrorist groups.

[red cat]

Maybe, but every national bourgeoise is different in nature (and are usually diverse in of themselves).

The national bourgeoisie can at most be a vacillating ally of the revolution. Since around the time of the Bolshevik revolution, the national bourgeoisie of every country has lost its power to lead a successful anti-imperialist struggle.



I remember that train attack-what was the official maoist line on it? I heard that it was a militia that sometimes associated themselves with the maoists.There has already been a thread on this (http://www.revleft.com/vb/train-derailed-india-t136122/index.html). Both the Maoist CP and the PCAPA have consistently denied any involvement in the massacre. Despite the state and central investigation reports trying to blame everything on the Maoists, it is now well known that all the evidences indicate involvement of the ruling classes and parties in the massacre.


Anyway, its not as much of a leap to think that Maoists might be connected to China, than to think that Mossad organized a raid of terrorists against Mumbai to collapse Pakistan.



(1) That's not fair, India's 5x as big, and Pakistan definitely has plenty of horrible atrocities in its history, from East Pakistan to Waziristan

(2) Arithmetically counting it is a pointless activity, it really doesn't tell you anything, especially because both sides have the same or similar structural motives in this violence. What's interesting is that Pakistani intelligence seems either complicit in or politically beholden to certain terrorist groups.If you consider the history of violence of the Indian state forces, then it might exceed five times those of their Pakistani counterparts as well. Just take into account things like the period of emergency etc.

Blaming the Pakistani intelligence alone is impractical. We have been almost brainwashed to believe that a terrorist is always equivalent to an Islamic fundamentalist. On Indian soil, there has been no terrorist bigger than the Indian government and its agents. Among many others, the decades long terrorist violence unleashed in the north east proves this. The official mass media or government intelligence do not report even a fraction of what is going on there. We only get some idea of the reality when even in a self-proclaimed democracy, women are driven to such a level of insult and insecurity, that they strip (http://www.e-pao.net/GP.asp?src=1.10.160704.jul04) in front of the authorities to protest in an outburst against the continuous murders and rapes orchestrated by the government to keep the masses subdued.

[t.shonku]

The Coming False-Flag Terror Trap For India
By Feroze Mithiborwala
21 January, 2010
Countercurrents.org
Over the course of the last two days, the matter of the Military & strategic involvement of the Indian forces in Afghanistan is getting all the more clearer. As we have consistently stated, the strategic objective that propelled the Mumbai 26/11 false flag terror attack was to prepare the consensus amongst the Indian people, whereby our pro-US/Israel political elite, would be free to deploy our Military into the war theatre in Afghanistan.
In the last few days, we have been witness to high profile visits from both Richard Holbrooke (Special Envoy, Af-Pak Region) & Defence Secretary, Robert Gates, accompanied by shrill warnings from 'Western Sources' of another terror attack that was imminent.
Consider the following news reports.
1) Holbrooke all praise for India (DNA, 19/01/10).
Apart from welcoming India's deepening role in the US strategic gameplan, he stated that "India is an important participant in search for peace & stability, not only in South Asia but throughout the vast region that stretches from the Mediterranean to the Pacific."
Richard Holbrooke who is the Obama appointee for the 'Af-Pak' region (a miscontrued term, as is the policy), was visiting Delhi. Holbrooke is a Right-wing Democrat, who oversaw the Balkanization of Yugoslavia. Amongst his best friends, he includes John Negroponte, who is the most despised man across all of South America.
2) Forward, Together by Robert Gates (TOI, 19/01/10).
Secretary of Defence, Robert Gates is due to visit New Delhi & prior to that, his article appeared in the Times of India on the editorial page.
He carries along similar lines as Holbrooke & further states that, "At the same time, the security threats & challenges of the 21st century present new opportunities for our nations & militaries to work together in unprecedented ways" (emphasis mine).
"India can be a net provider of security in the Indian Ocean & beyond - making valuable contributions to stability operations across the globe. In many respects, that belief is at the heart of the 2005 Defence Framewok Agreement, which, five years in, has amply demonstrated how much our countries have to gain from a long-term, reliable defence agreement".
"One of the great successes in recent years has been the increase in the number & complexity of joint training exercises between our militaries."
Both Holbrooke & Gates further wax eloquent on the fact that since the Indian military is increasingly using US Military hardware, there is a greater degree of 'interoperability'.
3) US analysts warn of Pak terror attack on India. (Hindustan Times, 19/01/10).
This warning has emanated from none other than the Council for Foreign Relations (CFR), which is the premier US institution that determines US foreign policy. It is also the stronghold of the NeoCons & the Zionists.
The story states that, "A leading American think-tank has warned that as the Al Qaeda comes under pressure in it's havens along the Af-Pak border, it may attempt to counter that by masterminding major terrorist strikes against India.
Do note that General James Jones, who is the National Security Advisor to Obama, has stated in the US Congress that the Al Qaeda are barely a hundred in number. This statement was never reported in the corporate media. Just imagine, a 100,000 US troops to flush out less than a 100 Al Qaeda.
'The Audacity of Lies' is the title of the Presidential biography, I would suggest, after he is booted out by the American People.
The Council for Foreign Relations' Centre for Preventive Action said in it's Contingency Planning Memorandum: "India faces the real prospect of another major terrorist attack by Pakistan-based terrorist organizations in the near future".
The report was prepared by Daniel Markey in his latest paper 'Terrorism and Indo-Pakistani Escalation', & is supposedly an expert on South Asia, though to me he appears to be a hawkish Zionist.
The report also appeared in the Indian Express website & the headline stated, 'India faces threat of another 26/11, likely to act militarily'.
Do recall that, K Subrahmanyam, the leading hawkish US asset & 'strategic expert' has written two articles that appeared after the 26/11 false flag terror attack & the other after Obama's urge to surge. K Subhramanyam appealed for the deployment of Indian troops into the Afghan war. (The articles appeared in the Times of India & the Indian Express).
K Subrahmanyam does mirror the hawkish inclinations of a section of the Indian elite & was one of the main writers that created the consensual manipulation that lead to the finalization of the Indo-US Nuclear Deal, which was less about the energy component & was basically a military-strategic alliance.
We, the People of South Asia have very little time, before our citizens are sacrificed as cannon fodder on the altar of Imperialism & Zionism. The only way is to "expose the politics of terror".
The Mumbai 26/11 false flag terror attack was not only an attack on India, but on all of South Asia.
Another false flag terror attack will be used by the pro-US Indian elite to mobilise hundreds of thousands of youth to go to war in Afghanistan, maybe even Pakistan & Iran. Indian soldiers have been used in the past by the British Colonial power to fight their wars across the world, especially in Middle East & North Africa. Once more the US Empire seeks to use our People.
It is clear that the US, or rather Obama, cannot win the war in Afghanistan, even stabilise the land & thus they are increasingly desperate. The only country that can provide them with the human power in the region is India & thus we have to awaken the Indian & the South Asian People to this Imperial-Zionist strategy of induced false-flag terror attacks, that then lead to further wars that only seek to serve the Empire.
The US war, is not our war. They will seek to make it our war & for that they will stage false-flag terror attacks.
Thus a pan-South Asian struggle against Imperialism & Zionism is the need of the hour. A South Asia free of the US-European & Israeli Imperialists is the need of the hour & is our patriotic calling.
I will sign of with one of the most analytical & forthright replies to the Daniel Markey story (attached) that appeared in the Indian Express on Jan 16, 2010.
"26/11 too was staged by the Israeli Lobby working in India" by Sujit Sehgel, Rted. Army Officer (on 17 Jan 2010)
Doesn't the following says it all: 1) To eliminate any doubt on the Israeli, the Zionist themselves show-cased to be innocent having themselves attacked in Nariman House. 2) A US Spy was killed in 26/11. 3) India's John O'Neill, Hemant Karkare,was cleverly eliminated.. 4) -Kasab tells about meeting Headly & the Judge quickly diverts his story (Headly is actually a US double agent. When FBI saw that he will be caught, FBI themselves caught him in USA so that they can silence him before USA's name in the dirty game is exposed) 5)- 26/11 had the signature of western-trained operatives: commandos arrival quietly by dinghy to shore, quickly mobilizing to urban terrain, navigating & communicating with high-tech sys is a specific skill taught by Navy elite to Marines, CIA spec ops(aka SOG).You can even play this as Tom Clancy's "Rainbow Six" video game. Hence no doubt Israelis are planning next 26/11 & this time using Military. Aren't they deep into our Military teaching them 'skills' for years.
Feroze Mithiborwala
(Awami Bharat, National President)
awamibharat.blogspot.com (http://awamibharat.blogspot.com/)


Link to the Original Article

http://www.countercurrents.org/mithiborwala210110.htm






Hmmmm interesting article

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

T Sonku-the allegation that India, Israel or the US were responsible for the Mumbai attack is just silly conspiracy theorizing. It's pretty clear that groups in Pakistan did it. That article sounds really anti-semitic too, playing into goofy conspiracy theories of Jews controlling the world.


The national bourgeoisie can at most be a vacillating ally of the revolution. Since around the time of the Bolshevik revolution, the national bourgeoisie of every country has lost its power to lead a successful anti-imperialist struggle.

Yes, but every bourgeoise has different kinds of counter revolutionary tendencies, and different movements within it which are sympathetic to revolution to varying degrees, or in conflict with other sectors of the bourgeoise.


There has already been a thread on this. Both the Maoist CP and the PCAPA have consistently denied any involvement in the massacre. Despite the state and central investigation reports trying to blame everything on the Maoists, it is now well known that all the evidences indicate involvement of the ruling classes and parties in the massacre.

Interesting. What evidence is there that it was the ruling party? Do you mean the CPI-Marxist or the Center? The train was going through a militia-controlled zone anyways. I just thought it was an attack that went horribly, horribly wrong.


If you consider the history of violence of the Indian state forces, then it might exceed five times those of their Pakistani counterparts as well. Just take into account things like the period of emergency etc.


There's also the Zia dictatorship in Pakistan, which included their assistance of the Mujihadeen in Afghanistan. Anyways, again, its hard to have "arithmetic" judgements on how "evil" a government, individual or ideological movement is.



Blaming the Pakistani intelligence alone is impractical. We have been almost brainwashed to believe that a terrorist is always equivalent to an Islamic fundamentalist. On Indian soil, there has been no terrorist bigger than the Indian government and its agents. Among many others, the decades long terrorist violence unleashed in the north east proves this. The official mass media or government intelligence do not report even a fraction of what is going on there. We only get some idea of the reality when even in a self-proclaimed democracy, women are driven to such a level of insult and insecurity, that they strip in front of the authorities to protest in an outburst against the continuous murders and rapes orchestrated by the government to keep the masses subdued.

This is true, and the mistake unfortunately has led to Indian security forces only going after "Green" (Islamic) terror, and ignoring "Saffron" (Hindu) terror. But the fact is that Pakistani groups in particular, more than Muslim or Hindu groups from India, seem to have a far more advanced and thorough logistical and tactical capability to kill.

The situation in the North East is interesting but complex, i don't know much about it other than the sheer number of independence guerillas. Pakistan and India alike suffer from the problem of trying to bringing many diverse ethnic groups under one heading. What's the Maoist view on this? I thought Maoists rejected ethnic nationalism, ie Tibetan/Turkish independence.

[t.shonku]

It seems that some people in this forum are accusing me of being a anti-semitic ! while in reality I don’t think I am , I only found an interesting and unconventional piece of journalism in net and I posted it , people are free to draw their own conclusion from it . I have often felt enticed by unconventional journalism and I feel that they too should be looked into that is because mainstream media is mainly controlled by capitalists so I think alternate journalists and their works must be taken notice of as well.
And as far as question of India government goes , India government accused Maoists of derailing Gnaneshwari Express back in 2010 when in reality Maoists straightly denied it and many evidence has since appeared which clearly shows that Maoists had nothing to do with it , how can this India government be trusted? A government which kills it’s own people just to discredit the Maoists simply can’t be trusted.
Peoples who are accusing me of all sorts of thing are the ones whose own agenda are unclear. People who know me for a long time in this forum know what sort of person I am and I don’t really think that any person’s false allegation would make a dent on my reputation .

But most importantly the opening of this thread which itself has nothing to do with class struggle in India but more to do with nationalistic chauvinism leaves a lot of speculations behind it’s path , one just has to wonder what is the hidden agenda behind opening such a thread?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I'm not saying you personally are anti-semitic, but the writer of the article is using a lot of anti-semitic tropes and it should be taken with a grain of salt. Israel is bad to Palestinians, sure, but it's ridiculous to argue that Zionists were responsible for every problem in the world, it's about as silly as believing that Aliens run the world.

Anyway, I don't think that opposing oneself to terrorist forces in Pakistan necessarily means that one supports the bourgeoise-feudal Indian state. On the contrary, these terrorist groups work at the expense of the Indian proletariat, who are killed by them or would be killed as the soldiers fighting in any war, or the urban dwellers attacked by nukes in the case of a broader war between India and Pakistan (which, I think, is what certain groups in India and Pakistan both want). You shouldn't go so overboard in criticizing the bourgeoise nature of the Indian state that you lose sight of the oppressive and dangerous tendencies in other countries, like Pakistan.

[t.shonku]

Evidence Mumbai Attackers were Anglo-American Intel Operatives (http://www.infowars.com/evidence-mumbai-attackers-were-anglo-american-intel-operatives/)


Kurt Nimmo
Infowars


As a BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7752625.stm) report notes, at least some of the Mumbai attackers were not Indian and certainly not Muslim.
Pappu Mishra, a cafe proprietor at the gothic Victorian Chattrapati Shivaji Terminus railway station, described “two sprightly young men dressed in black” with AK47s who were “foreign looking, fair skinned.”
Gaffar Abdul Amir, an Iraqi tourist from Baghdad, saw at least two men who started the firing outside the Leopold Cafe. “They did not look Indian, they looked foreign. One of them, I thought, had blonde hair. The other had a punkish hairstyle. They were neatly dressed,” Amir told the BBC.
Other “men walked into the cafe, drank beer, settled their bills and walked out. Then they fished out guns from their bags and began firing.” Muslims do not drink alcohol, that is unless they are Muslims like Marwan Al-Shehhi and Mohamed Atta, who reportedly not only liked to drink but enjoyed lap dances by topless dancers as well before they supposedly hijacked planes and flew them into buildings.
Even though these firsthand accounts indicate the attackers were white, drank alcohol and displayed the steely and professional reserve of trained military men, the emerging story carried by the corporate media blames the attacks on al-Qaeda and specifically Lashkar-e-Taiba, one Arab and the other Asian. “A terrorist group with training camps in Pakistan and strong ties with al-Qaeda as well as a history of mounting attacks in India yesterday became the chief suspect behind the atrocities,” reports the Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5248563.ece), pointing to Lashkar-e-Taiba.
As the Times Online admits, Lashkar-e-Taiba is a creation of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI. It “receives considerable financial, material and other forms of assistance from the Pakistan government, routed primarily through the ISI. The ISI is the main source of LeT’s funding. Saudi Arabia also provides funds,” explains the South Asia Terrorism Portal (http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/jandk/terrorist_outfits/lashkar_e_toiba.htm). Lashkar-e-Taiba “also played a part in the ISI organized ‘Bosnian campaign against the Serbs,’ which was directed above the ISI by the CIA and British intelligence.”
According to Andrew G. Marshall, the ISI “has long been referred to as Pakistan’s ‘secret government’ or ‘shadow state.’ It’s long-standing ties and reliance upon American and British intelligence have not let up, therefore actions taken by the ISI should be viewed in the context of being a Central Asian outpost of Anglo-American covert intelligence operations.”
The presence of “foreign looking, fair skinned” commandos who calmly gunned down dozens of people after drinking a few beers indicates that the Mumbai attacks were likely the work of the Anglo-American covert intelligence operatives, not indigenous Indian Muslims or for that matter Arab al-Qaeda terrorists. The attacks prepare the ground for the break-up of Pakistan and the furtherance of destabilizing terrorism in the Middle East and Asia. The Mumbai attacks had little to do with India or the relationship between Muslim Pakistanis and Hindu Indians.
“Pakistan’s position as a strategic focal point cannot be underestimated. It borders India, Afghanistan, China and Iran,” concludes Marshall. “Destabilizing and ultimately breaking Pakistan up into several countries or regions will naturally spread chaos and destabilization into neighboring countries. This is also true of Iraq on the other side of Iran, as the Anglo-American have undertaken, primarily through Iraq, a strategy of balkanizing the entire Middle East in a new imperial project.” (See Marshall’s Divide and Conquer: The Anglo-American Imperial Project (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9451).)
It is no mistake, as well, that Barack Obama (http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0132206420070801) has called for action against Pakistan. “If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will,” Obama said last August.
Regardless of who occupies the White House, the global elite are determined to continue their agenda of violence and murder in order to realize order through chaos. Obama and the Democrats will spend the next four years blaming George W. Bush for what the neocons have done while making sure the same destructive policies remain in effect. It is a shell game. George Bush and Barack Obama control nothing, they are little more than front men for the New World Order.

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http://www.infowars.com/evidence-mumbai-attackers-were-anglo-american-intel-operatives/







I just found this very interesting piece of alternative journalism , readers are free to draw their own conclusion