that probably the only thing we could learn from fascists.

[danyboy27]

They had a plethora of parallel organisation prior to their rise in power, wich allowed them to basicly compete and take over certain branch of the state formerly controlled by old timer and civil servants.

i am not talking only about their paramilitary organisation, they had litteraly a complete structure of services and gestion of the country ;mayor systems, leisure centers, food bank etc etc.

come to think about it, this might just be what socialist and communist would need to avoid being reformed by the state itself if they come to power democraticly, a complete set of parallel organisations.

[#FF0000]

Socialist organizations did this sort of thing too, I think.

It isn't always a viable strategy, because in many places, these things are handled by churches, NGOs, or the State itself.

[bricolage]

No. Organs formed in non-revolutionary situations cannot be revolutionary, they are doomed to co-option and collaboration. Fascists can do this because they are just a makeover for the state.

[danyboy27]

Socialist organizations did this sort of thing too, I think.

It isn't always a viable strategy, because in many places, these things are handled by churches, NGOs, or the State itself.

Well what about filling the gaps then?

[#FF0000]

I think it's something good that we should encourage, but I don't know how "useful" they'd be in terms of "promoting the cause" or whatever. The Black Panthers, for example, ran a Free Breakfast program in the inner-cities where they operated.

Nowadays (In America, at least), I get the feeling that "communities" don't really exist outside of churches in a lot of areas. I think Community organizations that 'fill in the gaps' as you said are good things, though. They might not start a revolution, but I think we ought to pursue that sort of thing anyway.

[danyboy27]

I think it's something good that we should encourage, but I don't know how "useful" they'd be in terms of "promoting the cause" or whatever. The Black Panthers, for example, ran a Free Breakfast program in the inner-cities where they operated.

Nowadays (In America, at least), I get the feeling that "communities" don't really exist outside of churches in a lot of areas. I think Community organizations that 'fill in the gaps' as you said are good things, though. They might not start a revolution, but I think we ought to pursue that sort of thing anyway.

Its not necessarly about dirrectly promoting the cause but about taking root in sectors where the private sector and the public sector fail.

[Thug Lessons]

"A plethora of parallel organizations" is one thing the socialist movement does not lack.

[danyboy27]

"A plethora of parallel organizations" is one thing the socialist movement does not lack.

We obviously dosnt talk of the same kind of organization.

i was more specifically speaking of organization that deliver a verry needed service that isnt delivered by neither the government or corporation.

For exemple in my province there is a huuge opportunity for leftist to develop a network of clinics and other parallel set of health organisation to outsmart the governement incompetence to manage the national healthcare system.

There are just so many opportunities where we could and should pick up the ball.

these kind of organsations where florishing before ww2 in europe, now, well, not has much has it used to be.

[Baseball]

They had a plethora of parallel organisation prior to their rise in power, wich allowed them to basicly compete and take over certain branch of the state formerly controlled by old timer and civil servants.

i am not talking only about their paramilitary organisation, they had litteraly a complete structure of services and gestion of the country ;mayor systems, leisure centers, food bank etc etc.

come to think about it, this might just be what socialist and communist would need to avoid being reformed by the state itself if they come to power democraticly, a complete set of parallel organisations.

The fascists COPIED the socialists in this effort.

[Baseball]

For exemple in my province there is a huuge opportunity for leftist to develop a network of clinics and other parallel set of health organisation to outsmart the governement incompetence to manage the national healthcare system.

In other words, create PRIVATE health care centers and other such institutions?

As an American I of course am quite proud that a Canadian is endorsing an American style health care system for Canada

As a non-socialist, I am LMAO that its a Canadian Revlefter doing this.

[gorillafuck]

The fascists COPIED the socialists in this effort.No they didn't, and even if they did, why would that be incriminating to socialists? America used Nazis to help them after WWII. Oh no that must mean America is nazi!!1!


In other words, create PRIVATE health care centers and other such institutions?Except that I think he means free health centers, like what the Black Panthers used to do with free breakfast and some vaccinations. So not quite what "private health care" has connotations with.

[Lt. Ferret]

privatized healthcare can either be free or for profit, or even for donation or any combination thereof.

[Blackoutx86]

Fascists? You must be talking about communism.

[Thug Lessons]

Fascists? You must be talking about communism.

LxcTdTNGhJI

[#FF0000]

Fascists? You must be talking about communism.

lol

[Baseball]

Except that I think he means free health centers, like what the Black Panthers used to do with free breakfast and some vaccinations. So not quite what "private health care" has connotations with.

It would be "free" in only one direction.

[gorillafuck]

privatized healthcare can either be free or for profit, or even for donation or any combination thereof.When people think of privatized health care they don't mean free health care. They mean regular health care companies, regardless of what it could possibly mean.

[Lt. Ferret]

thats what people get when they think!

[Blackoutx86]

LxcTdTNGhJI

It would seem so, but every communist country I have seen has been quite fascist.

[maskerade]

It would seem so, but every communist country I have seen has been quite fascist.

I don't think you know the first thing about fascism either.

[Revolution starts with U]

No, it hasn't. Maybe you mean totalitarian... only an idiot would say fascist. And only a historical revisionist would say there has ever been a "communist country."

Slacker mods... what's the point of having a restriction? :lol:

[RedSunRising]

It isn't always a viable strategy, because in many places, these things are handled by churches, NGOs, or the State itself.

By fascists I think he means "born-again" types who believe that George Bush Jr was some saviour sent by God, the US should nuke Iran, Sharon is to wimpy, etc. I think there is something in what he says as these types despite who irrational and even insane they are by nearly all standards (Im including religious ones here as well by the way) have been able to cement power and influence. I was looking up the testmonies of ex-porn stars and its was frightening to see just how many were "born-agains". Porn stars are more likely to convert to "born-again" Christianity they are to die of a drug overdose or commit suicide which is also pretty common.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

No. Organs formed in non-revolutionary situations cannot be revolutionary, they are doomed to co-option and collaboration.

Interesting. Are so-called "revolutionary" (the vast majority of which have been formed in "non-revolutionary situations" and yet at the same time aspire to be the vanguard of the working class) parties immune to this effect?

[Viet Minh]

It would seem so, but every communist country I have seen has been quite fascist.

Wow! This guy needs more rep, that was hilarious! :lol: