What is the Marxist's view/theory on the (capitalist) State?

[CarMarks]

I know someone is probably going to tell me to do some searching, well I have, and alot of areas have been inconsistent and are quite confusing to me:confused:. Ideally, Id like to know what exactly Karl Marx/Engels said initially(of the state); and what the traditional's Marxist view of the state is.

By view I am specifically referring to the view of its nature, scope, purpose and the perceived actions that need to be taken.

I hope I can get a consistent answer here It will really clear it up for me.

That said, any response is more than welcomed, and Id like to thank everyone for helping me :)

I will rep :)

[BlackMarx]

I know someone is probably going to tell me to do some searching, well I have, and alot of areas have been inconsistent and are quite confusing to me:confused:. Ideally, Id like to know what exactly Karl Marx/Engels said initially(of the state); and what the traditional's Marxist view of the state is.

By view I am specifically referring to the view of its nature, scope, purpose and the perceived actions that need to be taken.

I hope I can get a consistent answer here It will really clear it up for me.

That said, any response is more than welcomed, and Id like to thank everyone for helping me :)

I will rep :) The state is the employee of capital. The state is the form, capital is the essence.

[ZeroNowhere]

You may be interested in this (http://www.marxisthumanistinitiative.org/alternatives-to-capital/karl-marx-the-state.html) article, it's probably the best around on the subject, and generally quite straightforward to understand.

[KC]

Check out Ernest Mandel's The Marxist Theory of the State, Lenin's State and Revolution and Lenin's speech titled The State.

These three give the best general overview of the Marxist theory of the state.

[CarMarks]

Thanks guys. Can you guys give me a more detailed description of Marx's theory?

And these books. "Ernest Mandel's The Marxist Theory of the State, Lenin's State and Revolution and Lenin's speech titled The State." Are they actually based on and expound on Marx's actual claims? Because I am looking for Marx's theory at its purest not a reformed view.

[Le Socialiste]

From what I've gathered, the Capitalistic state (according to Marx) is the regulatory body of capital. While capital tends to be accumulated by Big Business, the state's role seems to be little more than its governing/political arm. The means of production and distribution, along with the accumulated labor force (and its subsequent division), are all unofficial functionaries within the broader activities of the machine (the state). The Capitalist state ensures the continued existence of privatized capital, which in turn provides the state with the means to govern. The state may intervene in the economy, but overall such interventions don't go far enough in altering the state of the economy itself. Basically, it's all one mass, with certain divisions of responsibility. Capital provides the existence of the state, which in turn maintains the profitability and viability of the economy.

I could be far off; this is just what I've personally interpreted Marx as saying. There's more to it, obviously, but that - I think - appears to be the gist of it.

[The Militant]

In the Communist Manifesto he states that "Political power, properly so called, is merely the organised power of one class for oppressing another." I hope this answers your question.

[Lyev]

In antiquated modes of production - the ancient Greek polis or the guilds etc. of feudalism - there was, to varying degrees, some amount of connection and integration between the individual's economic or private interests, and the community as the political, public interest. But in the modern bourgeois epoch, where these ties are severed, there develops this illusion of individual freedom, free from any social ties. Today, with capitalism, the individuals are divided; they are independent of each other. They are not bound by any common guild or obligatory commitment to the community or society in general. In bourgeois society, the common, 'universal' interest makes itself independent of all involved - it assumes a separate existence. Social unity established in isolation from its participants is the modern state. I am kind of struggling with my understanding of Marx on the state, but this is general overview as presented in his critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right. Basically, the modern, bourgeois state exists above and over civil society. This split is peculiar to modern capitalism. Maybe what I have said incoherent, I will come back to this later perhaps.

Edit: what I was trying to get across in the above, is Marx's theory of the state as regards Hegel's on the state and law etc. - the former acknowledged and was aware of the egoism and competitiveness of modern society, but instead of calling for a new mode of production, he harked back the polis and feudal guilds etc.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

I've always found this work by Hal Draper helpful:

The Death of the State in Marx and Engels (http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1970/xx/state.html)

[CarMarks]

I'm actually particularly interested in the traditional or plain instrumentalist view of the state; the bold proclamation of the state as being an coercive instrument of class oppression. I use the word traditional and plain here because, I understand that this idea has now been largely displaced and revised, in neo-marxist academia; there has been outgrowths of the idea.

I am particularly intrigued by the writings of Ernest Mandel and Lenin on the state, are there any authors who have written along these lines that you guys could recommend me? I find Mandel's pamphlet entitled the Marxist Theory of the State fascinating but wished I had something more than descriptive.

[Comrade_Stalin]

I'm actually particularly interested in the traditional or plain instrumentalist view of the state; the bold proclamation of the state as being an coercive instrument of class oppression. I use the word traditional and plain here because, I understand that this idea has now been largely displaced and revised, in neo-marxist academia; there has been outgrowths of the idea.

I am particularly intrigued by the writings of Ernest Mandel and Lenin on the state, are there any authors who have written along these lines that you guys could recommend me? I find Mandel's pamphlet entitled the Marxist Theory of the State fascinating but wished I had something more than descriptive.

May be I can help here. First we need to define what the most accpted version of the word "state" means to today, and what it was during Marx and Lenin time. The most accpted version of the word state comes form Max Weber's "Politics as a Vocation"; where a "monopoly on violence" is the definition of a "state". The reason why it is use is in a world of powerless kings and fake presidents you need to know how to talk to at the end of the day to get things done.

But this is not how Marx uses the word "state" as seen above. In fact he use the word dictatorship( of "----") to mean the "monopoly on violence". When you read the works of both Marx and Lenin you see that they use the word "state" like how we use the word "police state" today. And just like the word "police state" the mean of what one must be to be one changes with who you ask. One min it is when the goverment is in control of the economy (the right wing version), and the next it mans when private forces are the "monopoly on violence" (Left wing version). In respect the use of the word "state" from the past, is mostly used to define the "bad guy" system of goverment. Marx was not anti-govemrent, in fact calling the new govermetn of the world the "administration of things".