What to do?

[Togglebog]

America is need of some sort of revolution. We need drastic changes in our system. But a politician who tries to be honest and says things how they are, won't go anywhere. Could a peaceful revolution even happen? I don't think so, but if there was another violent revolution, it would open the door for terrorist attacks at a time of turmoil. I'm new to all this revolutionary stuff, but from what it seems, there's no good way of going about it. What is to be done?

[Victus Mortuum]

Well, the U.S. government is currently structured in such a way that if individuals are not part of the accepted mainstream, then they won't go anywhere. This has a lot to do with a) the constitutional structure of the government, b) corporate influence over elections, and c) the mass media. Could a hypothetical revolution happen peacefully? Revolution should always be relatively peaceful. It's the counter-revolution that causes the violence.

[Crimson Commissar]

No offense, but I honestly fucking facepalm every single time I see a thread asking "WHEN WILL REVOLUTION HAPPEN IN AMERICA". Sorry, guys, but a revolution is never happening in America until the majority of the population finally turns away from the reactionary capitalist propaganda they have been fed throughout their entire life. And, really, how likely is that?

[PilesOfDeadNazis]

America is need of some sort of revolution. We need drastic changes in our system. But a politician who tries to be honest and says things how they are, won't go anywhere. Could a peaceful revolution even happen? I don't think so, but if there was another violent revolution, it would open the door for terrorist attacks at a time of turmoil. I'm new to all this revolutionary stuff, but from what it seems, there's no good way of going about it. What is to be done?
Corporate sponsorship really fucks up any opportunity for a politician to come to power through elections who advocates non-Social-Democratic Socialism. And I don't think much would be done if a Communist DID take office. The fabric of the American government is Capitalist. If a Communist took power in this government and tried to completely change the economy he/she would probably get the boot pretty quick.

That being said, we would probably have to take things through an active, popular movement after educating enough of the working class. It won't be peaceful, but like the post above me said, that's mainly due to the inevitable counter-revolutionary forces. If we could take America by peaceful means, all the better, but I really don't think the powers-that-be at present will just let up.

And I don't think we are in that much danger of having terrorists attack us. At least, not in as much danger as people think.

The first step is to educate as many people as we can regarding the horrors of Capitalism and the answers which rest in Socialism. After that, we'll see what the conditions in America are and try our best to put power into the hands of the worker's government.

[blake 3:17]

1) Democratize the unions and the women's movement.

2) End the wars of occupation and drastically reduce the military budget.

3) Push very hard for serious electoral reform.

None of the above will create socialism in the US but they'll make it much more possible both within the US and everywhere else in the world. Time to get to work instead of speculating!

[scarletghoul]

No offense, but I honestly fucking facepalm every single time I see a thread asking "WHEN WILL REVOLUTION HAPPEN IN AMERICA". Sorry, guys, but a revolution is never happening in America until the majority of the population finally turns away from the reactionary capitalist propaganda they have been fed throughout their entire life. And, really, how likely is that?Comrade, everything in this post is awful. 1, this rude tone has no place in Learning. 2, whats wrong with asking when and how a revolution would happen in America ? 3, there seems to be a kind of passive defeatism here which runs counter to any revolutionary initiative. Massive socialist movements have been built in America before, theres no reason it couldnt happen again with more success. You're essentially telling someone they're stupid for asking about the possibilities of radical social change. On a forum called RevLeft.

[scarletghoul]

In response to Toggleblog's question I think we need to create a widespread socialist consciousness among the masses, as well as establishing some kind of organisational leadership. This way we can refine and channel the peoples' rage (which is an inevitable byproduct of capitalism, exploding from time to time) as part of revolutionary offensive to topple the capitalist regime.

To create this consciousness and leadership we need organisations to go among the people and establish themselves in the communities by carrying out educational work, leading by example, setting up institutions, standing up against injustice, etc..

[Crimson Commissar]

Comrade, everything in this post is awful. 1, this rude tone has no place in Learning. 2, whats wrong with asking when and how a revolution would happen in America ? 3, there seems to be a kind of passive defeatism here which runs counter to any revolutionary initiative. Massive socialist movements have been built in America before, theres no reason it couldnt happen again with more success. You're essentially telling someone they're stupid for asking about the possibilities of radical social change. On a forum called RevLeft.
Just telling the truth. People in all western countries have been so indoctrinated by capitalist propaganda that it seems unlikely that revolutionary communism will ever become popular until some sort of big event happens. Europe has a chance though, and if socialism succeeds in Europe I can definitely see these ideas becoming popular in America.

[ZeroNowhere]

Nothing.

Well, there's always being the memory of the class, of course, but that probably isn't what you mean.

[scarletghoul]

Just telling the truth. People in all western countries have been so indoctrinated by capitalist propaganda that it seems unlikely that revolutionary communism will ever become popular until some sort of big event happens. Europe has a chance though, and if socialism succeeds in Europe I can definitely see these ideas becoming popular in America.
Things are always changing. The US empire is in decline, the economy is broken, a space is opening up for mass discontent

[JohnGalt91]

A space is opening for discontent? No, the discontent has arrived, the problem I've noticed though is that the average man has no idea what direction to point that discontent thanks to the massive fog of confusion and deceit maintained by our oh so caring U.S. government

[NGNM85]

1) Democratize the unions and the women's movement.

2) End the wars of occupation and drastically reduce the military budget.

3) Push very hard for serious electoral reform.

None of the above will create socialism in the US but they'll make it much more possible both within the US and everywhere else in the world. Time to get to work instead of speculating!

These are some excellent ideas. We should be focusing on, and working towards real, achievable goals that address the immediate needs of working-class Americans. Also, the best way to get to a better world is to start building it.

[StalinFanboy]

No offense, but I honestly fucking facepalm every single time I see a thread asking "WHEN WILL REVOLUTION HAPPEN IN AMERICA". Sorry, guys, but a revolution is never happening in America until the majority of the population finally turns away from the reactionary capitalist propaganda they have been fed throughout their entire life. And, really, how likely is that?

The American working class has a history of militancy that rivals many countries of today

[9]

Originally Posted by blake 3:17 http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2017146#post2017146)
1) Democratize the unions...How?

...and the women's movement. How? And what does that even mean?


2) End the wars of occupation...How?

...and drastically reduce the military budget.How?

3) Push very hard for serious electoral reform.How? And more importantly, why?


Time to get to work instead of speculating!Yet that is precisely the part you've said nothing about.

[NGNM85]

In terms of election reform I would make two practical suggestions; first, the adoption of some kind of PR-STV system which are used in the UK, Australia, and elsewhere. This type of voting would level the playing field somewhat and would definitely be a boon to ‘Third Parties’, like the Greens and the Socialists. STV systems are already in use, here, in Cambridge, and in Minneapolis. So it isn’t unprecedented.

Another suggestion is to get behind the Fair Elections Now Act which would create a federal fund for politicians running for congress, this would cut out the cash from corporations, lobbyists, etc. It also, would, again, level the playing field for Greens, Socialists, etc. The Bill is supported by the SEIU, the NAACP, and others. You can find out more, and participate in the campaign by going to the official website;

http://fairelectionsnow.org/ (http://fairelectionsnow.org/)

Two of the significant barriers to getting progressive legislation to improve the lives of working class people is the constant fountain of money from ‘special interests’, and the two-party (Which is really just two halves of the business party.) stranglehold on our political system. These are two concrete ideas that would help to put in more politicians who are more in line with our priorities, so that they can act on them, and improve the lives of working-class people.

[Jalapeno Enema]

Welcome to the revolutionary left, Mr. Togglebog, I hope we can expand your understanding. If you have more questions, please do ask.

As for revolution, personally I don't see it happening for a long time, and I don't see it starting in the U.S. I feel our job is to educate and prepare for whenever revolution does come.


America is need of some sort of revolution. We need drastic changes in our system.
Yes.


But a politician who tries to be honest and says things how they are, won't go anywhere.Also true. The current status quo has a desire to maintain itself; that is the people on top want to stay there. Politicians, therefore receive great amounts of money from lobbyists, so owe them favors. The people with money and power try to allow only those who will maintain the status quo to attain money and power.


Could a peaceful revolution even happen?That is the question that divides revolutionary socialism from reformism. The reformists believe that gradually society can change socio-economically and politically through democratic changes. Reformists would include social democrats. The majority of Revleft belongs to the revolutionary branch, which advocates social change through revolution.

The idea is that those in power won't give up their power. They use their power to maintain power. Incorporating the above example, a billionaire uses lobbyists to pay large sums of money to both the republican and he democrat candidates. Either way, the politician owes the billionaire some major favors, which allow the billionaire to maintain his power at the expense of others.

The only way, therefore, to replace capitalism, is forcefully.


I don't think so, but if there was another violent revolution, it would open the door for terrorist attacks at a time of turmoil.The terrorists we'd have to fear would be counterrevolutionaries, and they already terrorize the people as the wealthy class; the people just don't know it yet. The primary difference would be the attacks would be overt. Think of it this way; if you cause somebody to starve to death in the ally or shoot their brains out on Main Street, do they not end up just as dead?

Terrorists such as 9-11 don't hate you or me. They don't know you or me. Their beef is with the United States, and I don't see them attacking a post-U.S. society just for the hell of it.


I'm new to all this revolutionary stuff, but from what it seems, there's no good way of going about it. What is to be done?That is a very big question, that would take many threads to argue over (I wouldn't say you'd find a clear cut answer.)

[Nanatsu Yoru]

I don't think anyone can say for sure 'when' a revolution will happen, but it will. Do we need anything more than that?