Ronald Reagan and revision of history today on his birthday

[Le Libérer]

Today many Americans are praising Reagan as the greatest conservative US president to ever live. Much like GW Bush is attempting to do now with his own presidency.

In fact he was one of the most brutal American Presidents to live. Some of his accomplishments, such as he giving tax breaks to Americans, is simply not the truth. A few of the truths to his presidency is:

1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.” Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration — I was there.” “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.

2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.” Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control.

3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s did little help them. “Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt noted.

4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal spending “ballooned” under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest — the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.

5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than a million abortions.” When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.

6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war — and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world — a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.

7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.

8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign.

9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.”

10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.

Conservatives seem to be in such denial about the less flattering aspects of Reagan; it sometimes appears as if they genuinely don’t know the truth of his legacy. Yesterday, when liberal activist Mike Stark challenged hate radio host Rush Limbaugh on why Reagan remains a conservative hero despite raising taxes so many times, Limbaugh flew into a tirade and demanded, “Where did you get this silly notion that Reagan raised taxes?“

Source (http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/05/reagan-centennial/)

Those of us who were AIDS activists/anarchists accumlated FBI records. We were considered enemies of the state. Lucky for us, his policies hadnt progressed to Homeland Security at that point, or I myself may have spent a few years at Gitmo.

Of course this is just a few lies that have been blanketed by hero worship.

Are there incidents you can think of to add to this list of "The Crimes of Ronald Reagan?"

[Red Commissar]

This is good stuff. I've been sick and tired of this near god-like status Reagan has achieved for doing really nothing but be a feel-good conservative.

I would add to Reagan Administration also gave some support to Iraq too during the Iran-Iraq War: bear spares programme, chemical agents marked for health research, seting up lines of credit, etc - possibly linking them to much of the atrocities Saddam Hussein did. Of course we later saw that the same mess they caused they later used as a moral excuse to invade Iraq.

An image I saved a while back,

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8240/whatwouldreagando.jpg

[PigmerikanMao]

loved this :)

[Os Cangaceiros]

They had an all-day tribute to him on the radio today (I listen to a lot of talk radio...it's an unfortunate affliction, I know).

Some black guy called in and talked about how their Tea Party in the 60's was called the Black Panther Party, and the supposedly pro-gun (then governor) Reagan signed a bill prohibiting the possession of loaded weapons in public, after the BPP carried out an armed march outside the California state capital, a contrast to the many armed demonstrations at national sites that have been going on today, and which conservatives have defended.

The host didn't know how to respond to that. It was amusing.

[Hexen]

The host didn't know how to respond to that. It was amusing.

Busted I say....

[Bud Struggle]

Are there incidents you can think of to add to this list of "The Crimes of Ronald Reagan?"....

It seems like Ronald Reagan (to a good extent) is a hero of the Left! :)

[RGacky3]

its just fun to shit on right wing dillusions.

[Revolutionair]

10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.


I am going to look like an idiot asking this, but wasn't that Carter?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter

[AthenaAwakened]

Ronald Reagan's first major political speech after securing his party's nomination was given at the Neshoba County Fair held near Philadelphia Mississippi, the town made famous NOT for its cheese steaks, but for the brutal murders of Goodman, Cheney and Schwerner.

His handlers chose the fair to make clear Reagan's stand on states rights and just to hammer home this message:

"He may be from Hollywood, but he's a good ole boy, just like y'all"

[Le Libérer]

Heres another fun link. (http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Unfortunate-Truth-Abou-by-Sam-Hamod-110205-595.html#comment0)

. Shortly after his election, the truth did come out -- he had made a deal with Iran's Rouhollah Mousavi Khomeini to release the "hostages" that had been taken in exchange for weapons that were trans-shipped through Israel. Thus, the negotiations of President Carter to free them were deliberately made to fail, with Reagan's help.

Reagan also created the famous Iran Contra scandal, where he helped the "contras" in Nicaragua fight against the Nicaraguan democratic movement. This same group of people who were special agents for Reagan and his CIA director William Casey, dealt in narcotics, illegal arms sales to Iran and sent weapons and money to foment problems in all of South and Central America.
Among a few.


If I can find the pics, I'll post some of my Reagan tag art from the 90s. Its not identifying because they tore down the building it was on to make way for a casino parking lot. :) But it was up for nearly 10 years and visible to those traveling the main interstate in my city.

[Invader Zim]

I have always been amused by the reputation Regan has acquired as a fiscal conservative when clearly he was nothing of the sort.

[Le Libérer]

Reagan's inability to let go of the notion of the Star Wars project was a sticking point. He and Nancy both relied on astrologers and spirtualists.

At any rate, he'd be considered "liberal" by today's standards of conservativism.

[Nolan]

It's interesting that Reagan had liberal roots but became a champion of American center-right ideology. It's also interesting that the Tea Party's conservatism is not Reagan's. It has been infected by some strong libertarian economic bile while at the same time taking anti-immigrant and Jesusland social positions.

They worship Reagan because they need some figure to rally behind.

[Bud Struggle]

They worship Reagan because they need some figure to rally behind. But that's just how it goes. I think it's been pointed out a million times here that 99% of the "Heros of Communism" would get restricted if they could have posted on RevLeft.

[ComradeMan]

Quote OP: 7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.

I may be misreading this- but was this a bad thing?

Apart from that though the rest seems quite dire...

[Nolan]

But that's just how it goes. I think it's been pointed out a million times here that 99% of the "Heros of Communism" would get restricted if they could have posted on RevLeft.

Well the difference is that Reagan was recent history. Most of the great communists lived a long time ago, with a couple exceptions. Marx, Lenin, and co lived in completely different societies than we do now. Reagan on the other hand just died in the noughties.

Also the American right has made some rather big jumps in ideology and rhetoric the last 20 years, with militias, near-anarchists, and political Christianity (All of this is forgetting the Bush years for a sec, minus the religious fundamentalism). Reagan the Man wouldn't quite be with the times, but Reagan the Myth is malleable.

[brigadista]

go over to Music in protest and post your favorite Bob Marley whose birthday was 6 Feb...:):):)much better use of time than even mentioning this ones name...

[RGacky3]

Btw, Californias huge homeless population can be partially creditited to Reagan, for just shutting down metal health institutions, and just letting sick people go, think about that for a second next time you see a homeless person who has mental health issues, in more civilized times, when they could'nt be taken care of by family, they were taken care of as a society.

[Le Libérer]

Quote OP: 7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.

I may be misreading this- but was this a bad thing?

Apart from that though the rest seems quite dire...

No its not a bad thing. But its definitely not in tune with his present persona. The OP is just a myth buster.

[Baseball]

Btw, Californias huge homeless population can be partially creditited to Reagan, for just shutting down metal health institutions, and just letting sick people go, think about that for a second next time you see a homeless person who has mental health issues, in more civilized times, when they could'nt be taken care of by family, they were taken care of as a society.


Reagan hasn't been governor of California for over 40 yrs, so its rather ridiculous at this point to point to a homeless person and say "See, if it wasn't for Reagan..."

MOST of the homeless are, as you indicate, mentally ill or addicted some sort of
drugs.
It is true mental health institutions were shut down. But this was in OPPOSITION by conservatives and such. The new theory of "normalization" dictated that people with mental illness should live amongst "normal" people and that would be far more beneficial to the person than keeping in some huge, brick building.
It didn't work, and we have whole industry devoted to the right of the mentally ill to wander the streets. If anything, its a sin of OMMISSION rather COMMISSION.

[Bud Struggle]

No its not a bad thing. But its definitely not in tune with his present persona. The OP is just a myth buster.

It does show pretty powerfully how the Right has gained ground in America over the past 30 years. The right really doesn't have any touchstones in the past that follow it's extreme agenda so it has to invent them.

[Baseball]

It seems like Ronald Reagan (to a good extent) is a hero of the Left! :)

Who'd a thunk that Reagan was the idol of Democrats and the scourge of Republicans?

[Bud Struggle]

Who'd a thunk that Reagan was the idol of Democrats and the scourge of Republicans?

Reagan is a guy that should be universally loved! :)

[Palingenisis]

It does show pretty powerfully how the Right has gained ground in America over the past 30 years. The right really doesn't have any touchstones in the past that follow it's extreme agenda so it has to invent them.

Bud why do you think so many people who arent doing that well under the present system have tagged along with the radical right? Is it to do with born again super Churches, racism, naivity?

Why?

[Bud Struggle]

Bud why do you think so many people who arent doing that well under the present system have tagged along with the radical right? Is it to do with born again super Churches, racism, naivity?

Why?

A bit of all of that--but in general they present a really well put together message of security and prosperity. "Work hard and succeed." "God is on your side."

The Left has no coherent vision that can easily be expressed--No God, Revolution? There's no security there.

And it's not about money--really. It's the message.

[Palingenisis]

The Left has no coherent vision that can easily be expressed--No God, Revolution? There's no security there.

And it's not about money--really. It's the message.

I have no problem with people believing in God and infact I dislike militant athiests...I have a problem with politicalized religion whether its Roman Catholic third positionists or Francoists, Free Presbetyerian Orange fascists or Born-Again Bush lovers. Most people work hard all their lives and dont become millionaires or whatever.

What exactly is the message or the part of it that attracts people who on a material (and I would argue a cultural and psychological level too) lose from it?

[Le Libérer]

Reagan has a massive Democratic vote the first time he ran for Prez. Its his moderate policies that got him elected. Then when the Dems saw he was a sheep in wolves clothing they jumped ship. He was def favored by liberal moderates.

And Bud, he was a evil sleeze ball with a Hollywood smile and fairly quick wit but a puppet for corporatism and the war machine. Bad Bad man.

[Jalapeno Enema]

6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war — and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world — a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.Let us not forget Regan's SDI (Strategic Defense Initiative) program.

At the Reykjavik summit ('86), Gorbachev suggested a ten year period where the superpowers would disband all(!) nuclear weapons, if SDI was limited to "laboratory testing" for said ten years. Not disbanded. Just no real-world testing or 10 years. The proposal even allowed Regan to keep his pet SDI program.

Regan had such a boner for his SDI he rejected the proposal (what he thought the SDI would defend him from when the ICBMs were all gone, who knows.)

Today, SDI is no more (unfeasible, you say?), it's successor is a mere shadow of SDI's ambitious goals, but nuclear weapons remain. Was this an early sign of Alzheimer's disease, or was Regan just a lying space-ranger wannabe when he claimed to wish a world free of nukes?

I personally consider that one of the dumbest presidential moves in history.

[Bud Struggle]

And Bud, he was a evil sleeze ball with a Hollywood smile and fairly quick wit but a puppet for corporatism and the war machine. Bad Bad man.

Oh true. But he had charm. (So did Clinton.) And that goes a LONG way here in these United States.

oskP72Xqoio

[Bud Struggle]

I personally consider that one of the dumbest presidential moves in history. It backed the USSR into a corner that it couldn't get out of. America committed itself to a defense program that the USSR could never match. It was the beginning of the end of the US/Soviet conflict. (Now obviously were rooting for the other side--but you have to admire the quality of the brinksmanship!)

[Palingenisis]

It backed the USSR into a corner that it couldn't get out of. America committed itself to a defense program that the USSR could never match. It was the beginning of the end of the US/Soviet conflict. (Now obviously were rooting for the other side--but you have to admire the quality of the brinksmanship!)

In retrospect that whole star wars thing was hilarious...However you have to factor (at least I have to factor in) the what it all meant for women in the former Eastern Bloc (wife beating is now no big deal, prostitution rampant, etc, etc). Also the dead of the Latin American death squads have to be factored in.

[Bud Struggle]

In retrospect that whole star wars thing was hilarious...However you have to factor (at least I have to factor in) the what it all meant for women in the former Eastern Bloc (wife beating is now no big deal, prostitution rampant, etc, etc). Also the dead of the Latin American death squads have to be factored in.

That's being a bit disingenuous, don't you think? Capitalism doesn't expressly make husband's beat up their wives...it doesn't make men lust after strange women.

If these things weren't permitted in the USSR it wasn't because of the economic system--it was that the totalitarian nature of USSR didn't permit personal freedom.

For ill or for good.

[Palingenisis]

That's being a bit disingenuous, don't you think? Capitalism doesn't expressly make husband's beat up their wives...it doesn't make men lust after strange women.

If these things weren't permitted in the USSR it wasn't because of the economic system--it was that the totalitarian nature of USSR didn't permit personal freedom.

For ill or for good.

It makes prositution an economic necesscity and it encourages an ego-centric attitude in males to take advantage of that fact. It feeds a culture of self-assertion which easily manifests in wife or girl friend beating. The personal freedom to beat or exploit others isnt a freedom I want to allow because what about the beaten or exploited persons freedom? Your talk of freedom is a sick joke if its applied to the brothels of Budapest, Prague or the Ukraine.

[Palingenisis]

For the record some of the countries of the eastern Block had a Proletarian dicatorship at one point but none of them outside of Albania were really socialist...And the USSR ceased to socialist in 1963. They were though a pretty humane and decent society compared to the nightmares most of us live in now.

[Palingenisis]

I have no problem with people believing in God and infact I dislike militant athiests...I have a problem with politicalized religion whether its Roman Catholic third positionists or Francoists, Free Presbetyerian Orange fascists or Born-Again Bush lovers. Most people work hard all their lives and dont become millionaires or whatever.

What exactly is the message or the part of it that attracts people who on a material (and I would argue a cultural and psychological level too) lose from it?

Bud could you answer this?

:confused:

[Bud Struggle]

It makes prositution an economic necesscity and it encourages an ego-centric attitude in males to take advantage of that fact. It feeds a culture of self-assertion which easily manifests in wife or girl friend beating. The personal freedom to beat or exploit others isnt a freedom I want to allow because what about the beaten or exploited persons freedom? Your talk of freedom is a sick joke if its applied to the brothels of Budapest, Prague or the Ukraine.

People need to control THEMSELVES. It's worthless when a totalitarian regime MAKES people be good. Why not the Church? It's all the same.

People have to choose to live properly.

[gorillafuck]

For the record some of the countries of the eastern Block had a Proletarian dicatorship at one point but none of them outside of Albania were really socialist...And the USSR ceased to socialist in 1963. They were though a pretty humane and decent society compared to the nightmares most of us live in now.
What the hell happened in 1963 that completely changed the nature of the USSR's economy?

Is this because Stalins associate who was a massive rapist was convicted?

[Palingenisis]

What the hell happened in 1963 that completely changed the nature of the USSR's economy?

Is this because Stalins associate who was a massive rapist was convicted?

1965 sorry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_Soviet_economic_reform

[Palingenisis]

People have to choose to live properly.

Im not a structuralist who denies any human responsibility under capitalism however your choices about moral behaviour have a nasty habit of decreasing with hung cramps and desperation. Ive done things that I am ashamed off, that wouldnt have done if I could have seen another choice. I wont justify anything...But its easy for me be to moral now that I have a relatively cushy job.

[Le Libérer]

People need to control THEMSELVES. It's worthless when a totalitarian regime MAKES people be good. Why not the Church? It's all the same.

People have to choose to live properly.

Oh Lord, are you saying prostitutes are immoral (lack of controlling themselves) because they are forced into prostitution? Sometimes people do not have choices and do whatever is available to them to survive.

[Bud Struggle]

Im not a structuralist who denies any human responsibility under capitalism however your choices about moral behaviour have a nasty habit of decreasing with hung cramps and desperation. Ive done things that I am ashamed off, that wouldnt have done if I could have seen another choice. I wont justify anything...But its easy for me be to moral now that I have a relatively cushy job.

I've been poor and I've been rich and found the temptation are the same and the choices are the same.

[Le Libérer]

I've been poor and I've been rich and found the temptation are the same and the choices are the same.

As you say from a position of Patriarchy. You can not speak for women.

[Palingenisis]

Oh Lord, are you saying prostitutes are immoral (lack of controlling themselves) because they are forced into prostitution? Sometimes people do not have choices and do whatever is available to them to survive.

I know generally very moral women who have prostituted themselves for very good reasons (kids's school books or uniforms, food, rent, etc). In the case of mums who have done it in a way its almost a plus that they were prepared to degrade themselves that much for their families. Infact it is a plus in a fucked up way. Id rather an honest prositute than someone who marries for money and is prepared to live with the guy 24/7 or so...Thats more fucked up to me.

[Palingenisis]

I've been poor and I've been rich and found the temptation are the same and the choices are the same.

There is a difference between being poor and knowing it will end and being poor and knowing that it will probably never end. Until you have known desperation you havent known poverty.

[Le Libérer]

There is a difference between being poor and knowing it will end and being poor and knowing that it will probably never end. Until you have known desperation you havent known poverty.

Bud or anyone else for that matter, wouldnt even consider selling his ass for what ever money he could get, being rich, unless of course he likes that sort of thing.

[Richard Nixon]

As you say from a position of Patriarchy. You can not speak for women.

Patriarchy? The US and the rest of the West is not a patriarchy. You could say there is some inequality in income and etc. but not partriarchy.

[Palingenisis]

Patriarchy? The US and the rest of the West is not a patriarchy. You could say there is some inequality in income and etc. but not partriarchy.

Really? How many men are raped or sexually abused compared to women?

How many men are battered by their parterners compared to women?

Also abortion is illegal full stop where I live.

[Le Libérer]

Patriarchy? The US and the rest of the West is not a patriarchy. You could say there is some inequality in income and etc. but not partriarchy.

The mere fact you are speaking as a white ( I assume) male, voids the reality of this statement. What you called a Christian nation in its self makes the US patriarchy.

But if you dont mind, Nixon, this thread is about Ronald Reagan. I'm sure you have thoughts to add.

[Richard Nixon]

Really? How many men are raped or sexually abused compared to women?

How many men are battered by their parterners compared to women?

I see your point there. But abusers of neither men nor women are tolerated by the majority of the populace. In addition it shouldn't be forgotten prostitutes are at a high risk of being abused.


Also abortion is illegal full stop where I live.

I apologize. Both Bud Struggle and I live in the US so I was writing in that context.

[Richard Nixon]

The mere fact you are speaking as a white ( I assume) male, voids the reality of this statement. What you called a Christian nation in its self makes the US patriarchy.

Asian-American actually and not particularly well off either. And I don't exactly think the USA is a Christian nation either-heavily influenced by Christianity certainly but the majority of the populace are at best lukewarm Christians.


But if you dont mind, Nixon, this thread is about Ronald Reagan. I'm sure you have thoughts to add.

Well overall I think he did well. I'm not a supply-sider (slightly more moderate than that) but he did maintain a strong stand against the USSR while switching to a concilartory mode when Gorbachev moderated.

[gorillafuck]

Reagan loves gun control, Reagan loves gun control.

I wish that was a playground chant of some sort.

[JazzRemington]

[...]MOST of the homeless are, as you indicate, mentally ill or addicted some sort of drugs.

I'm going to have to ask for sources on this, because it smells of bullshit. Most estimates of the number of mentally ill amongst homeless are either as high or low, depending upon how the mental illness and homelessness is defined and how people locate homeless people to use in the study. The highest estimate I've seen from an independent organization was about 33%, while most estimates are around 20-25%. I fail to see how these percentage can be construed to indicating "most".


It is true mental health institutions were shut down. But this was in OPPOSITION by conservatives and such. The new theory of "normalization" dictated that people with mental illness should live amongst "normal" people and that would be far more beneficial to the person than keeping in some huge, brick building.
It didn't work, and we have whole industry devoted to the right of the mentally ill to wander the streets. If anything, its a sin of OMMISSION rather COMMISSION.

The institutions weren't shut down because of some "normalization" theory (whatever that is). A lot of hospitals, before they had their funding cut, worked with community organizations to provide out-patient care and other services for the mentally ill. When the mental illness health industry was deregulated, the idea was that the mentally ill were supposed to be cared-for by families or at least private institutions. Unfortunately, this didn't work.

[gorillafuck]

There's a higher percentage of mental illness among homeless people than non-homeless people, but it's certainly not "most".

[Le Libérer]

.... And I don't exactly think the USA is a Christian nation either-heavily influenced by Christianity certainly ....


Not according to Reagan.

Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged.
Ronald Reagan

[JazzRemington]

There's a higher percentage of mental illness among homeless people than non-homeless people, but it's certainly not "most".

Drastically higher, unfortunately. The mental illness rate amongst non-homeless persons is thought to be about 4-5%.

[#FF0000]

I see your point there. But abusers of neither men nor women are tolerated by the majority of the populace. In addition it shouldn't be forgotten prostitutes are at a high risk of being abused.

Ehhhhh wouldn't be too sure about that. On it's face, people are firmly against "abuse", but when it comes to things like rape, there always seem to be certain caveats. The woman was dressed a certain way, or was too flirtatious, or shouldn't have been drinking, or is just looking for attention. And the man? Psh. Everyone knows men can't get raped. I also want to point out to you that during the lifetime of almost every American on this board, rape was legal within marriage.

Anyway, it's silly to say "Nah, no more patriarchy here". Gender roles are still very much a part of American society and rape myths are still prevalent. And when it comes to women portrayed in media? Forget about it.

[Le Libérer]

Ehhhhh wouldn't be too sure about that. On it's face, people are firmly against "abuse", but when it comes to things like rape, there always seem to be certain caveats. The woman was dressed a certain way, or was too flirtatious, or shouldn't have been drinking, or is just looking for attention. And the man? Psh. Everyone knows men can't get raped. I also want to point out to you that during the lifetime of almost every American on this board, rape was legal within marriage.

Anyway, it's silly to say "Nah, no more patriarchy here". Gender roles are still very much a part of American society and rape myths are still prevalent. And when it comes to women portrayed in media? Forget about it.

Especially right now! With the GOPs trying to redefine rape. Once again, a bunch of old men want to tell women that if they didn’t fight back hard enough, how could their experience be rape? This takes us back to the 50s and 60s when what a woman was wearing was relevant in her rape case. All this to try to cut back on federally funded abortion. So dont tell me we arent living in a Patriarchy, Mr. Nixon. We be living in a Patriarchal society.

[ComradeMan]

Really? How many men are raped or sexually abused compared to women?

How many men are battered by their parterners compared to women?

Also abortion is illegal full stop where I live.

It's not a numbers game.

However, you've never heard of what goes on prisons, especially in the US?

[RGacky3]

I've been poor and I've been rich and found the temptation are the same and the choices are the same.

No they arn't, I'm pretty sure you don't have the temptation to steal food, or to be a prostitute, or to sell drugs, and you probably have the time and energy to raise your children properly, and have a good family life.

I'm also pretty sure the average worker does'nt really have that much temptation to snork cocaine off a hookers tits.


There is a difference between being poor and knowing it will end and being poor and knowing that it will probably never end. Until you have known desperation you havent known poverty.

Exactly, being poor in the sense that you can't afford a bunch of luxuries, is not poor, your doing ok. Real poverty is you don't know if your gonna have your home next month and you need to decide whether you or your kids eat a 2nd or 3rd meal.

Yes that happens in America, a lot.


Really? How many men are raped or sexually abused compared to women?

How many men are battered by their parterners compared to women?


Actually domestic violence is pretty equal between the sexes.

As for the former, yeah, but there are different factors for this, for example, men are stronger than women, and most men are heterosexual.

(I'm not saying gender inequality is'nt a problem, its just the facts).


What you called a Christian nation in its self makes the US patriarchy.


The US is less of a christian nation than Cuba, thast a joke.


However, you've never heard of what goes on prisons, especially in the US?

Yeah, theres no women there, only male criminals (in male prisons), thats a silly argument.


The institutions weren't shut down because of some "normalization" theory (whatever that is). A lot of hospitals, before they had their funding cut, worked with community organizations to provide out-patient care and other services for the mentally ill. When the mental illness health industry was deregulated, the idea was that the mentally ill were supposed to be cared-for by families or at least private institutions. Unfortunately, this didn't work.

Thats exactly what this was, it had nothing to do with the normalcy, it was state budget cuts and getting rid of public competition from markets.

[RGacky3]

Especially right now! With the GOPs trying to redefine rape. Once again, a bunch of old men want to tell women that if they didn’t fight back hard enough, how could their experience be rape?

Thats one of the most cynical moves by the GOP, I can't believe more people arn't pointing this out, its discusting.

But it just goes to show that the right wing does'nt have principles, they have an agenda, thats it.

[ComradeMan]

Yeah, theres no women there, only male criminals (in male prisons), thats a silly argument..

Rape and sexual abuse are unfortunately what they are. Of course the circumstances vary etc, but Palingenesis seemed to ignore this whole area- which is often a taboo subject, covered up or outright denied.

It's not a silly argument- it's part of the argument, and for that matter stuff happens in women's prisons where there are only women too- so there you go.

[RGacky3]

zGhR2VnVma0

Watch Rush Limbaugh get spanked and humiliated by Stark.


but Palingenesis seemed to ignore this whole area- which is often a taboo subject, covered up or outright denied.


Because its a totally different issue, its part of the prison indsutrial complex, its not within the issue of gender discrimination.


It's not a silly argument- it's part of the argument, and for that matter stuff happens in women's prisons where there are only women too- so there you go.

Yes, but thats the problem of the prison system, which I am against.

[Bud Struggle]

There is a difference between being poor and knowing it will end and being poor and knowing that it will probably never end. Until you have known desperation you havent known poverty.

Your're right I've never known povety. Poor but no desparation...


Bud or anyone else for that matter, wouldnt even consider selling his ass for what ever money he could get, being rich, unless of course he likes that sort of thing.

No thank you. :rolleyes:

[Edit] But the REAL story in this thread (with apologies to the lovely and gracious Children of the Revolution) is about how RIGHT America has turned over the past 45-25 years. Democrats now are what the Republicans used to be and the Democrats were in many cases downright Progressive. Reagan wasn't all that that bad compared to what's around now slouching towards Washington to be born.

The 60s and 70s were VERY Progressive times.

[Revolution starts with U]

The 60s and 70s are an example of what happens when you rely solely on reformism.

[Crux]

The 60s and 70s were VERY Progressive times.
No, not really. It was called counter-culture for a reason. Also if you're going to pegdown the Dem's as "progressive", what about the Dixiecrats?
Another thing worth bearing in mind is that there are more countries in the world than the US. So, to get a bit more back on topic, Reagan was right-wing scum. Thankfully he is now dead. Still waiting for Thatcher to kick the bucket.

[Le Libérer]

No thank you. :rolleyes:

[Edit] But the REAL story in this thread (with apologies to the lovely and gracious Children of the Revolution)

Dont let this sweet gentle exterior fool you, I practice muay thai, Shoot Sailor Jerry's rum, am covered in tattoos, own a glock, and am a chess master. ;) Profile pic only blonde, but cute, very cute, sickeningly cute.

[RGacky3]

The 60s and 70s are an example of what happens when you rely solely on reformism.


You mean the black panthers? Civil disobedience? Strong Unions? Major anti-war protests, soldier strikes, draft card burning, the decades of community activism? The civil rights protests. That was not soly reformism, those things were revolutionary.

what happens when you rely soly on reformism is Obama.


Shoot Sailor Jerry's rum

Go girl.

[Bud Struggle]

Dont let this sweet gentle exterior fool you, I practice muay thai, Shoot Sailor Jerry's rum, am covered in tattoos, own a glock, and am a chess master. ;) Profile pic only blonde, but cute, very cute, sickeningly cute.

I kind of have a crush on you. In a world full of girls--it's nice to meet a woman. :)

[Edit] And my people tell me--be both have won the Golden Che. It kind of makes it special. ;)

[NoOneIsIllegal]

An excellent post. Thanks COTR. Coincidentally, my brother just posted this on Facebook:

http://i.imgur.com/rgOmL.jpg

[Revolution starts with U]

Good point Gack. I retract my previous statement. :D

[Bud Struggle]

You mean the black panthers? Civil disobedience? Strong Unions? Major anti-war protests, soldier strikes, draft card burning, the decades of community activism? The civil rights protests. That was not soly reformism, those things were revolutionary.

what happens when you rely soly on reformism is Obama. I agree.
So where the hell are you?




Go girl. YEA!!!!!