Someone showed me this website..

[Dataika]

What is your opinion on this websites portrayal of Marxism?

http://www.friesian.com/marx.htm

I'm rather new, I accidentally put it in politics. Any response would be helpful, thanks.

[Loknar]

This website has a few good points. Communism does not have any moral code, but neither does capitalism. However I don’t see capitalists screaming for blood nearly as many times as Communists do. Morality is very important.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 01:58 AM
However I don’t see capitalists screaming for blood nearly as many times as Communists do. Morality is very important.
What's the morality of being a capitalist? Is it getting the wealth produced by the workers of one's business and refusing to pay them an accurate wage to the contribution they made to gaining that money?

That's unfair and it discriminates the people who really work, it is stealing and doing anything to gain more (which includes supporting wars because it gives the capitalist more oil to sell to the poor lambs and get more and more money while indirectly helping to pollute the environment and of course it kills poor iraqui kid who never got a chance in life), even if it means killing and opressing others.

[Dataika]

I was wondering what the thoughts were on the idea that Communism isn't a set of standards and that Lenin merely, after seeing it fail historically, wanted to do it by himself. Or the illustrations and diagrams.

[YKTMX]

Bullshit.

[elijahcraig]

bah!

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 01:58 AM
This website has a few good points. Communism does not have any moral code, but neither does capitalism. However I don’t see capitalists screaming for blood nearly as many times as Communists do. Morality is very important.
Yes, the morailty of the massacre of East Timor or the bombing of South Vietnam is surely clear to all. How about the morality of the A bomb, or Guantanomo Bay, or cluster bombs, or the Chilean coup?

[Loknar]

Originally posted by YouKnowTheyMurderedX+Sep 7 2003, 06:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YouKnowTheyMurderedX @ Sep 7 2003, 06:47 PM)
[email protected] 7 2003, 01:58 AM
This website has a few good points. Communism does not have any moral code, but neither does capitalism. However I don’t see capitalists screaming for blood nearly as many times as Communists do. Morality is very important.
Yes, the morailty of the massacre of East Timor or the bombing of South Vietnam is surely clear to all. How about the morality of the A bomb, or Guantanomo Bay, or cluster bombs, or the Chilean coup? [/b]
Look,, I did not say Capitalism is moral, but COmmunism seems far worse.

[YKTMX]

I agree, leaders who claimed to be communist have done some terrible things. It&#39;s whether you believe them to be communist OR you believe them to be simply your everyday run-of-the-mill tyrants that masqueraded as socialists to justify power.

[elijahcraig]

Yeah, who wants equality, freedom, and cooperation instead of war&#33;? Capitalism is far better&#33;

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 07:15 PM
Yeah, who wants equality, freedom, and cooperation instead of war&#33;?


I&#39;ll retract that to stop this turning into a squabble.

[elijahcraig]

Any one of my liberal *****es here would do the same X, The Owenite, the "communist revoolutionary" (actually RAF&#39;s ***** bolshevik7.. whatever his name used to be), RS the utopian madman, etc. You&#39;re no different.

Don;&#39;t forget Doctor Zhivago and Tasha the Homophobic Enviromentalist Fascist.

Squabble anyone?

:lol:

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 07:28 PM
Any one of my liberal *****es here would do the same X, The Owenite, the "communist revoolutionary" (actually RAF&#39;s ***** bolshevik7.. whatever his name used to be), RS the utopian madman, etc. You&#39;re no different.


I&#39;m not a liberal. So you&#39;ve emberassed yourself there, Comrade IwonderWhatFairyTalesI&#39;llBelieveNextWeek.

[elijahcraig]

You certainly are my crippled friend.

[Felicia]

This should be in Websites....

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 05:36 PM
I was wondering what the thoughts were on the idea that Communism isn&#39;t a set of standards and that Lenin merely, after seeing it fail historically, wanted to do it by himself. Or the illustrations and diagrams.
From that point of view I think that site is crap, because it takes communism as a historical phase. If it was really like that, we would all be living in communism but about 99% of the world is still capitalist, and even thought history seems to repeat, "communism" (if such a thing ever existed) hasnt lasted long enough as to be considered a phase.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 08:01 PM
You certainly are my crippled friend.
How am I a Liberal? Explain yourself?

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 08:28 PM
Any one of my liberal *****es here would do the same X, The Owenite, the "communist revoolutionary" (actually RAF&#39;s ***** bolshevik7.. whatever his name used to be), RS the utopian madman, etc. You&#39;re no different.

Don;&#39;t forget Doctor Zhivago and Tasha the Homophobic Enviromentalist Fascist.

Squabble anyone?

:lol:
Ahh how cute the little man remembers me, have you learned to read yet, and come back for another beating?

Well come on mate, lets see your pathetic filth... that is unless you have changed your mind again.

[Dyst]

I have said this before, and I will say it again. You can&#39;t put groups of induviduals (which have nothing in common actually, other than a burning desire for a better world) under the same flag and act as they are pleased. No person has got the right to link a website which totally discriminates Marxism by letting only the dark side of the case out to the public. Most modern communists doesn&#39;t support any of which was displayed at that website, at least not the quotes, those were horrible may I add.

Sides, El Infiltr(A)do made an interesting point also, that is, the fact that communism has never existed, nor any proof it has, nor even any well made argument claiming it has.

[Dataika]

Originally posted by El Infiltr(A)do+Sep 7 2003, 10:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (El Infiltr(A)do @ Sep 7 2003, 10:02 PM)
[email protected] 7 2003, 05:36 PM
I was wondering what the thoughts were on the idea that Communism isn&#39;t a set of standards and that Lenin merely, after seeing it fail historically, wanted to do it by himself. Or the illustrations and diagrams.
From that point of view I think that site is crap, because it takes communism as a historical phase. If it was really like that, we would all be living in communism but about 99% of the world is still capitalist, and even thought history seems to repeat, "communism" (if such a thing ever existed) hasnt lasted long enough as to be considered a phase. [/b]
I understand that, and this is what the person used to say communism has failed. Because it was supposed to be the original order to come after capitalism and that after they realized it failed, Lenin stepped in to try and make it succeed.

I don&#39;t agree with the website necessarily, I just wanted to know what other communists think of it. Or rather, how you would argue against this.

[Dataika]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 06:48 PM
I have said this before, and I will say it again. You can&#39;t put groups of induviduals (which have nothing in common actually, other than a burning desire for a better world) under the same flag and act as they are pleased. No person has got the right to link a website which totally discriminates Marxism by letting only the dark side of the case out to the public. Most modern communists doesn&#39;t support any of which was displayed at that website, at least not the quotes, those were horrible may I add.

Sides, El Infiltr(A)do made an interesting point also, that is, the fact that communism has never existed, nor any proof it has, nor even any well made argument claiming it has.
Okay, is this how you would respond to it?

The person who showed me the site said that communism was supposed to follow capitalism according to Marx itself, and when it didn&#39;t succeed they tried to "make it" succeed. I don&#39;t agree with him, I was just wondering how you would respond to this.

Would you just say, that&#39;s not your view on communism? Or how would you respond to someone like this.

Thanks for the response.

[Mandor]

"Although communists liked to see fascism as the ultimate expression of capitalism, and fascism did nominally leave property in private hands, fascism and communism nevertheless had more in common with each other than with capitalism, since each was a collectivist ideology that subordinated individual interests to the purposes of the State. It was no coincidence that both Hitler and Mussolini came out of the socialist movement, and Lenin himself had praised Mussolini as the great champion of the Italian socialist party in the days before World War I. Later, Hitler&#39;s own best role model for ruthless police state power was Lenin. Both communists and fascists knew that the opposite of both ideologies was the despised "liberalism."
ahahaha that site is amusing :D

[elijahcraig]

Where do you get Hitler using Lenin&#39;s techniques as a guide from?

Lenin praised Mussolini? Yes, why? He was a socialist at the time, as was Gramsci.