The Muslim Brotherhood

[Dimentio]

http://vimeo.com/18014677

I had expected to see a volley of islamophobic conspiracy theories when I clicked on this video, but it was surprisingly little of that. Instead, we are following a Norwegian citizen of Iranian origin who is studying the network and international affiliates of the Muslim Brotherhood, and how this movement has been able to drive the left from the streets in Egypt by a mixture of threats and local social aid.

The documentary had luckily no interviews with western Islamophobes, only with representatives of the secular scene in Egypt and those of the Muslim Brotherhood.

There are some errors, like that the Muslim Brotherhood would be Salafis/Wahhabis. There are also some exaggerations left unchecked, like some of the Muslim Brotherhood claims that Europe would have a muslim majority by 2040.

Sadly, when leftists from the Islamic World are defending themselves against islamists, they are involuntarily sainted by European islamophobes and fascists, people who do not share any of their values or their concerns. The leftists seen in the film are concerned about islamism much like we are concerned about fascism, while the fascists in Europe are concerned about foreigners.

This is evident in the comment section.

Some parts of the documentary also touched the Islamophobic discourse, where for example legitimate claims against racism in Paris is turned into a sinister force in it's own right, ignoring the dichotomy between social protests and religious fascism.

Overall though, a quite good film to expose the Muslim Brotherhood.

And ComradeMan.

Don't fucking thank me for this post. This is not an apologism for Israel.

[ComradeMan]

الإخوان

The problem with the Muslim Brotherhood as an organisation is that they fundamentally want to reunite the Dar al-Islam under a Caliphate- from Spain to Indonesia according to the group's founder Hassan al-Banna.

Of course the Southern Branch of the Islamic Brotherhood is represented in the Knesset. Unlike the Northern Branch, the Southern Branch, obviously, does recognise the State of Israel- albeit it denies its right to exist as a primarily Jewish state. The Northern Branch acknowledges no right and has its goal the establishment of an Islamic state.

Abdullah Nimar Darwish is an interesting person to research....

[RGacky3]

The problem with the Muslim Brotherhood as an organisation is that they fundamentally want to reunite the Dar al-Islam under a Caliphate- from Spain to Indonesia according to the group's founder Hassan al-Banna.

Of course the Southern Branch of the Islamic Brotherhood is represented in the Knesset. Unlike the Northern Branch, the Southern Branch, obviously, does recognise the State of Israel- albeit it denies its right to exist as a primarily Jewish state. The Northern Branch acknowledges no right and has its goal the establishment of an Islamic state.


You have to judge these groups by their actions not their written statements.

kind of like judging the Chineese communist party

[ComradeMan]

You have to judge these groups by their actions not their written statements.

kind of like judging the Chineese communist party

Sure, look up Abdullah Nimar Darwish- like I said, an interesting person.

[RGacky3]

Sure, look up Abdullah Nimar Darwish- like I said, an interesting person.

And what ... You found one shady dude, does'nt change anything.

[ComradeMan]

And what ... You found one shady dude, does'nt change anything.

Is that the sum of your analysis- "one shady dude"- who you haven't even probably been bothered to look up.:rolleyes:

[RGacky3]

Is that the sum of your analysis- "one shady dude"- who you haven't even probably been bothered to look up.:rolleyes:

I did, and yeah, he's one shady dude, but we are talking about the muslim brotherhood here.

[hatzel]

I did, and yeah, he's one shady dude, but we are talking about the muslim brotherhood here.

I thought we were talking about Abdullah Nimar Darwish :laugh:

Nah, seriously, the Muslim Brotherhood do a decent amount for people on the ground. If they where an NGO, they'd probably be spiffing. As they're a political group vying for power, a few shady elements seem to get introduced. There's also the question of whether or not their actions, policy and rhetoric would change if they were put in a position of power. I mean, it's easy to say 'they talk about doing all this, but really they're doing something else', but who knows whether or not they would start doing what they're talking about, if they were given free rein to do so, and the necessary power in implement such actions...

Still, for the meantime they a'ight! Sometimes :)

[ComradeMan]

I thought we were talking about Abdullah Nimar Darwish :laugh:

Nah, seriously, the Muslim Brotherhood do a decent amount for people on the ground. If they where an NGO, they'd probably be spiffing. As they're a political group vying for power, a few shady elements seem to get introduced. There's also the question of whether or not their actions, policy and rhetoric would change if they were put in a position of power. I mean, it's easy to say 'they talk about doing all this, but really they're doing something else', but who knows whether or not they would start doing what they're talking about, if they were given free rein to do so, and the necessary power in implement such actions...

Still, for the meantime they a'ight! Sometimes :)

Good points.

It's just the "sometimes" part that can be worrying. However, I think their committment to the Dar al-Islam is difficultly reconcilede with a leftist internationalist and/or non-statist secular viewpoint.

[Che a chara]

I thought we were talking about Abdullah Nimar Darwish :laugh:

Nah, seriously, the Muslim Brotherhood do a decent amount for people on the ground. If they where an NGO, they'd probably be spiffing. As they're a political group vying for power, a few shady elements seem to get introduced. There's also the question of whether or not their actions, policy and rhetoric would change if they were put in a position of power. I mean, it's easy to say 'they talk about doing all this, but really they're doing something else', but who knows whether or not they would start doing what they're talking about, if they were given free rein to do so, and the necessary power in implement such actions...

Still, for the meantime they a'ight! Sometimes :)

That's my gist of the situation too. i think the muslim brotherhood's representation and position is over-exaggerated and they are being used as a bogey man by the media. they are indeed a social movement as well as an islamic pressure group.

sure their endgame might be islamic superiority, but given the chance the republican party's end goal would be worldwide christian superiority. the muslim brotherhood, especially in the last decade, have been very peaceful and vocal in their opposition to terrorism. their website even features a section called 'MB .vs. al-Qaeda", in which articles are posted condemning al-Qaeda and other extremist acts.

and of course if their standing grows and their policies shift if they get more power, then they should be looked upon in suspicion, but imo, they've been unfairly criticised as of late.

[Dimentio]

I thought we were talking about Abdullah Nimar Darwish :laugh:

Nah, seriously, the Muslim Brotherhood do a decent amount for people on the ground. If they where an NGO, they'd probably be spiffing. As they're a political group vying for power, a few shady elements seem to get introduced. There's also the question of whether or not their actions, policy and rhetoric would change if they were put in a position of power. I mean, it's easy to say 'they talk about doing all this, but really they're doing something else', but who knows whether or not they would start doing what they're talking about, if they were given free rein to do so, and the necessary power in implement such actions...

Still, for the meantime they a'ight! Sometimes :)

The Nazis had their "Winter Hilfe" and their charities. In fact, the charities and social work undertaken by the Gauleiters was as important as a source of support as the nationalist propaganda and the violence of the SA.

The only major difference I see between Islamism and Fascism is that Islamism is an internationalist ideology with planetary pretensions, while Fascism is a nationalist ideology with often national pretensions.

[hatzel]

Still, as long as the nice things they do for people outweigh the bad things they might want to do in the future, then it's okay. It's only when they get a bit naughty and start actually enacting their bad-thing-plans that we have to stop singing the praises of the Autobahn! :)

Ps. :laugh: Ds.

[Dimentio]

That's my gist of the situation too. i think the muslim brotherhood's representation and position is over-exaggerated and they are being used as a bogey man by the media. they are indeed a social movement as well as an islamic pressure group.

sure their endgame might be islamic superiority, but given the chance the republican party's end goal would be worldwide christian superiority. the muslim brotherhood, especially in the last decade, have been very peaceful and vocal in their opposition to terrorism. their website even features a section called 'MB .vs. al-Qaeda", in which articles are posted condemning al-Qaeda and other extremist acts.

and of course if their standing grows and their policies shift if they get more power, then they should be looked upon in suspicion, but imo, they've been unfairly criticised as of late.

The Swedish fascist Per Engdahl kept illegal refugees from the Soviet Union hidden in his basement.

Was he a hero?

[Che a chara]

The Swedish fascist Per Engdahl kept illegal refugees from the Soviet Union hidden in his basement.

Was he a hero?

at the moment i don't see the muslim brotherhood oppressing anyone or preaching hate.

[Dimentio]

at the moment i don't see the muslim brotherhood oppressing anyone or preaching hate.

Neither did Per Engdahl, at least not oppress anyone.

Islamism is preaching hate, at least against apostates, degenerate foreign non-muslims and female liberation.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

at the moment i don't see the muslim brotherhood oppressing anyone or preaching hate.

We'll see about that if they ever get their hands on some serious power.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

If the brotherhood never gains power on their own, they will be harmless.

If they ever get a monopoly on power and get pushed by radicals within their party, then the world will be in trouble. but I think the whole MB thing is overblown. They can't run egypt on their own, and an 80 year old party is by nature of its long existence going to be quite removed from its founding ideology (look at the democrats in america, who went from a party of aristocratic slave owners to the party which pushed for desegregation)

[Che a chara]

I continue to hear the right-wing media bleat on and on about comparisons to Iran and it's Islamic revolution, but what they fail to mention is that Egyptian society has been secularised. The military has also shown no signs of religious fundamentalism, and evidence now and in the past proves that they are loyal to the citizens, not to the government or any particular organisation. it's been well blown out of proportion.

The caliphate is coming to get ye :lol: Freddy Krueger wall radicalise you in your dreams :lol:

[Milk Sheikh]

We'll see about that if they ever get their hands on some serious power.

One cannot take action based on speculation, on what may or may not happen. Bush's preemptive strike ring a bell?:rolleyes:

[Che a chara]

Media outlets have just reported that the USA Director of National Intelligence, Mr Clapper, says that the Muslim Brotherhood is a "largely secular" movement in Egypt. Predictably Fox 'news' responded by spitting blood and vehemently pouring cold water over the claim. :lol:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

One cannot take action based on speculation, on what may or may not happen. Bush's preemptive strike ring a bell?:rolleyes:

Might I ask where I called for a pre-emptive strike on anyone? :rolleyes:

[NGNM85]

I'm presently reading Lawrence Wright's The Looming Tower: al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11. Despite the mediocre title, the Pulitzer-winning book is probably the best single volume on al-Qaeda, and modern Islamic radicalism, of which, the Muslim Brotherhood is no small part.

[gorillafuck]

Media outlets have just reported that the USA Director of National Intelligence, Mr Clapper, says that the Muslim Brotherhood is a "largely secular" movement in Egypt. Predictably Fox 'news' responded by spitting blood and vehemently pouring cold water over the claim. :lol:What? The Muslim Brotherhood is not secular.....

Right wing media has been talking about the Muslim brotherhood a lot, though.