First Commies on Earth ever

[Rafiq]

I know communism is older than marx, but what is the oldest self proclaimed Communist ever? What movements before Marx delcared themselves Communist? What were the orgins of Communism?

P.S. Please don't say Jesus or anything like that. I'm talking self proclaimed communists, who, you know, actually called themselves Communist.

[The Militant]

I believe Marx coined the term communism as it is known today. Although there were primitive communist societies before Marx but did not call it communism.

[Dimentio]

Depends on how you define communism. I would claim that some primitive tribes have some kind of communist system.

In terms of state socialism/planned economies, Ancient Egypt had a centrally planned economy which assembled all the grain and then distribute it to the population.

[#FF0000]

I know communism is older than marx, but what is the oldest self proclaimed Communist ever? What movements before Marx delcared themselves Communist? What were the orgins of Communism?

P.S. Please don't say Jesus or anything like that. I'm talking self proclaimed communists, who, you know, actually called themselves Communist.

Socialism predates Marx. Socialism's been around since the beginning of Industrial Society.

I really have no clue who the first "socialist" was, though. They've existed since about the beginning of the 19th century, though.

[Lyev]

Gracchus Babeuf was a kind of proto-socialist, later to influence anarchists, the utopians and probably Marx himself. He was part of the 'conspiracy of equals' around in France a bit after the revolution. He and his followers were killed for their beliefs. http://www.marxists.org/history/france/revolution/conspiracy-equals/index.htm

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The French aristocrat Henri de Saint-Simon is often credited with coining the term “socialism” in the first half 19th Century.

"Communisme" first came into use in France around 1835-1845.

[hatzel]

Hmm...Jesus? :rolleyes: No, it probably was a Christian communist. I know the first one to call himself a communist (apparently) in English was John Goodwyn Barmby (London Communist Propaganda Society, founded 1841), but as that's supposed to come from French, we can guess it might be somebody French, pre-1840...

[Rafiq]

Well a lot of people say Jesus was a commie.

Other people here have said otherwise, but whatev.

[Ocean Seal]

I would say that the Luddite movement most clearly embodied the ideals of communist movement in recent pre-Marxist history. I don't think that they called themselves communists though. Here's an interesting wikipedia article about them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Making_of_the_English_Working_Class

[ZeroNowhere]

I believe Marx coined the term communism as it is known today. Although there were primitive communist societies before Marx but did not call it communism.
"Yet, when it was written, we could not have called it a socialist manifesto. By Socialists, in 1847, were understood, on the one hand the adherents of the various Utopian systems: Owenites in England, Fourierists in France, both of them already reduced to the position of mere sects, and gradually dying out; on the other hand, the most multifarious social quacks who, by all manner of tinkering, professed to redress, without any danger to capital and profit, all sorts of social grievances, in both cases men outside the working-class movement, and looking rather to the “educated" classes for support. Whatever portion of the working class had become convinced of the insufficiency of mere political revolutions, and had proclaimed the necessity of total social change, called itself Communist. It was a crude, rough-hewn, purely instinctive sort of communism; still, it touched the cardinal point and was powerful enough amongst the working class to produce the Utopian communism of Cabet in France, and of Weitling in Germany. Thus, in 1847, socialism was a middle-class movement, communism a working-class movement. Socialism was, on the Continent at least, “respectable”; communism was the very opposite. And as our notion, from the very beginning, was that “the emancipation of the workers must be the act of the working class itself,” there could be no doubt as to which of the two names we must take. Moreover, we have, ever since, been far from repudiating it."

- Engels, preface to the Communist Manifesto.

[scarletghoul]

Adam and Eve

[Kalifornia]

the Kerliadrensk tribe of the Bidsnepe valley operated a communal system in 1200, they ran vast agricultural plans and created a true classless paradise.

You wont read about it in any book though.

[Rafiq]

Adam and Eve

Silly scarlet, I meant communists who actually existed

[Victus Mortuum]

The Oxford English Dictionary has the first recorded use of the word that they could find (and I trust that it's the earliest known out there):

"1840 N.-Y. Spectator 22 Aug. 2/1 'A man named Dufraisse‥concluded with an exposition of the doctrines of Communism‥much the same as what Mr. Owen preaches in England, under the name of Socialism.' "

[Hexen]

I think Marxism/Communism/Socialism in it's current modern form is originally intended for industrial based societies as it sprung from there.

[Amphictyonis]

"Primitive" communism. When the 'means of production' was nature and each man, woman and child had equal access to nature in order to provide sustenance. Marx wrote a lot about the Iroquois and such. Women were doing most of the farming so they were socially equal with men seeing farming was more than half of their 'means of production'. Hunting was the other part. Obviously there was no money and everyone was taken care of. Anywhere where you didn't have a small minority controlling surplus food/land/shelter and access to the means of production communism existed. It was the natural state of man until "Big Men" started to control surplus agriculture in European nations. Marx talks about this a lot. The "big men' who controlled agriculture ended up evolving (family lineage) into kings and 'noble men' and started consolidating land (feudalism).....and so on up into capitalism.

[Rafiq]

If we are to estabilish communism, how can we prevent more "big men".

[Amphictyonis]

If we are to estabilish communism, how can we prevent more "big men".

Don't let any minority control the means of production or surplus created via the means of production (abolish what we now call private property). Not possessions but private ownership of the means of production. Tricky in a complex global industrial society. Tricky tricky business indeed. There will always be some asshole wanting to accumulate wealth. Read Marx's work on primitive accumulation :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_accumulation_of_capital

[scarletghoul]

Silly scarlet, I meant communists who actually existedWay to miss the point. I meant society has been communist from the beginning of humanity, before classes emerged.

[Rafiq]

I was kidding. But yeah I understand what you mean

[hatzel]

But wasn't the question clearly, through the use of bold, about the first people to call themselves communists, so what's with all this totally unrelated stuff about primitive communism, which we all surely know existed? :confused:

[scarletghoul]

In that case i guess you can just look up the origins of the word 'communist' itself, if youre talking about people calling themselves 'communist'. But the idea of a classless stateless society has always been around in one form or another I think.

[hatzel]

Of course. I tried to do that on the first page, an 'etymology' of the word, but I can't guarantee the accuracy, and just found it was 'from French', which doesn't help much :) A few people gave some pretty interesting kind of...trace-backs. Those thinkers immediately preceding nominal 'communism' with comparable ideas. That's pretty cool...anybody else got any 18th / early-19th century ideas we can call 'proto-Marxist'? Something obscure, impress me :rolleyes:

[Victus Mortuum]

Again, the OED on the origin of the word:

"Etymology: < French 'communisme' theory advocating the abolition of private ownership (1840 in this sense: see note) < commun (common) adj. + -isme (-ism) suffix; with the early use of the term in French perhaps compare also French commune (commune) n.1, especially in its application to the Paris Commune of 1789 to 1794."

So it came from the use of the word "commune" in France in the late 18th century...

More specifically, it appears that the term communisme was first coined by Étienne Cabet in 1839 who was strongly influenced by the English socialism of Robert Owen. The term seems to have been assumed to be religious by default at this time. Specifically, he seems to have talking about the Icarians (which he started). The term along with the large other number of coined terms at the same time (socialism, anarchism, etc.) were all these varying abstract sorts of future societies - 'utopian' socialisms, as Communists would come to call them.

Now, during this time with all of these new ideas about how society could be structured without the inequality and injustices present a number of workers came together and formed radical groups advocating for major social change. This culminated in the "League of the Just" in 1836 which started in Paris. They advocated "the establishment of the Kingdom of God on Earth, based on the ideals of love of one's neighbor, equality and justice" (it's also important to note that this was a 'secret society' that was largely authoritarian).

The organization grew to an international organization with 'chapters' all around the world with total numbers around 1000. When Marx moved to Paris to escape the lack of freedom of the press in Prussia he became a journalist for this radical organization. Then, in June 1847, Engels and others organized an international meeting for the 'League of the Just' and the 'Communist Correspondence Committee of Bruxelles'. He and Marx pushed to change the organization to "The Communist League" and to remove the secretive and authoritarian structure (both of which happened). Then, the League asked Marx and Engels to author a manifesto for the league (which became the communist manifesto of 1848 - following which, major revolutions came all across Europe that year). Obviously, Marx and Engels picked up the use of communisme from the French communists during the time they were in Paris.

Now, this is what I can make from the history. If anyone has anything to add or correct, please do.