Albania than and now...

[Palingenisis]

Comparing the then with now gives a real sense of the achievements of Socialism in Albania as well as what capitalist restoration has meant, and what capitalism means today for the world's oppressed and majority.


eZ9xNVEyNgM

pRlMkgyfqUo

YkUvOjnwE-Q

[Crimson Commissar]

The state that eastern europe is in currently is depressing for me to think about. Albania is no exception. If only western communists weren't so quick to accept America's blatant lies about past socialist states.

[ComradeMan]

The Albanians I know told me it was pretty shitty then, but that it had been an improvement on the total shit of before- but now it seems to be shittier.
:crying:

[#FF0000]

The Albanians I know told me it was pretty shitty then, but that it had been an improvement on the total shit of before- but now it seems to be shittier.
:crying:

Pretty much the story of Eastern Europe, it seems. Except for Poland.

[Palingenisis]

The thing is though I believe that Albania was a genuinely Socialist country...I dont believe that Poland ever really was.

[Lt. Ferret]

i dont recall eastern europe ever being not-shitty, no matter the political system.

[#FF0000]

i dont recall eastern europe ever being not-shitty, no matter the political system.

Shades better, shades better. I mean, people had jobs and weren't as dismally poor as they are now.

[Palingenisis]

Shades better, shades better. I mean, people had jobs and weren't as dismally poor as they are now.

This is an interesting thing....A lot of the working class in the USA doesnt have access to healthcare or decent education but they do have access to loads of consumer goods...While if you are living in Cuba everyone has access to healthcare and good education but not to consumer goods....So who is worse off? :confused:

[Lt. Ferret]

Cuba.

[Revolution starts with U]

Don't getg me wrong. I like my computer and tv. Driving a somewhat new car is nice. McD's and Bk are good sometimes, whatever.
But seriously, my heart gets out of control sometimes, and I think it needs checked out. If I stand up for hours my shoulders start hurting, and I don't know why. I used to have a very poor diet so I had/have kidney stones...? And I probably need correction for my eyes, cuz I can barely read road signs.... oh, and I'm an insomniac... maybe, idk cuz I can't afford a doctor :thumbdown:

How about both of them suck, ours has a little more social freedoms, but outright saying your way of life is better is kind of insulting

[ComradeMan]

Like some Spanish people I know who regularly travel to Cuba and stay with a family- they bring supplies such as "toothpaste"- I am not down on Cuba, but it isn't exactly paradise either. How much of this is down to Castro and how much to the embargo is of course open to debate.

[RGacky3]

Cuba.


Of coarse, the US is the best country in the WORLD right?

[Lt. Ferret]

Yes.

[RGacky3]

Yes.


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[RGacky3]

Yes.



The Following User Says Thank You to Lt. Ferret For This Useful Post: Bud Struggle (http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=15926)


The sad thing is you guys probably arn't even kidding, and you have absolutely no idea how idiotic that sounds.

You know an honest discussion is impossible when one side has the totally baseless premis that the US is the greatest country in the world .. and thats where they start, based on nothing, how can you reason with a fool like that.

[Lord Testicles]

yes.

24\8\1814

[Palingenisis]

The sad thing is you guys probably arn't even kidding, and you have absolutely no idea how idiotic that sounds.
.

Bud thanks lots of posts for no apparent reason.

Its both kinda cute and kinda creepy.

[Lt. Ferret]

The sad thing is you guys probably arn't even kidding, and you have absolutely no idea how idiotic that sounds.

You know an honest discussion is impossible when one side has the totally baseless premis that the US is the greatest country in the world .. and thats where they start, based on nothing, how can you reason with a fool like that.


the actual greatest countries in the world are sweden, norway, maybe denmark, then good ole USA.

[southernmissfan]

Yes.

On what basis? Totally awesome gap between rich and poor? An ass-kicking proportion of the population that is in jail/prison? The fact that the USA is so cool they are the only advanced, Western country without healthcare? That must be it, after all, being unique is cool.

Or is it on another basis? Like do we take a country, look at the number of countries they have interfered with/exploited, add that number up and whoever has the most wins? If so, then yes, America is the best.

[Bud Struggle]

Bud thanks lots of posts for no apparent reason.

Its both kinda cute and kinda creepy.

If I like it I thank it.

Besides it's a proven fact that Conservatives are kinder people than Liberals.

Conservatives Give More to Charity than Liberals?

Thursday April 10, 2008

Do "conservatives" give more to charitable causes than "liberals"? According to Syracuse University professor Arthur C. Brooks, they do. Dr. Brooks, a professor of public administration at Syracuse's Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs, was quite astounded with the results of his own research, which was so at variance with the common perception of the generous "liberal" and the Scrooge-like "conservative."

In his book, Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservativism (http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compassionate-Conservatism/dp/0465008232/ref=sr_oe_2_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201349815&sr=1-2) (Basic Books, 2006), Brooks discovered that approximately equal percentages of liberals and conservatives give to private charitable causes. However, conservatives gave about 30 percent more money per year to private charitable causes, even though his study found liberal families earned an average of 6 percent more per year in income than did conservative families. This greater generosity among conservative families proved to be true in Brooks' research for every income group, "from poor to middle class to rich."

This "giving gap" also extended beyond money to time donated to charitable causes, as well. Brooks also discovered that in 2002, conservative Americans were much more likely to donate blood each year than liberals and to do so more often within a year. Brooks found "if liberals and moderates gave blood at the same rate as conservatives, the blood supply in the United States would jump by about 45 percent."


Read more: http://blog.beliefnet.com/castingstones/2008/04/conservatives-give-more-to-cha.html#ixzz1D0LLsikJ

:D

[Lt. Ferret]

On what basis? Totally awesome gap between rich and poor? An ass-kicking proportion of the population that is in jail/prison? The fact that the USA is so cool they are the only advanced, Western country without healthcare? That must be it, after all, being unique is cool.

Or is it on another basis? Like do we take a country, look at the number of countries they have interfered with/exploited, add that number up and whoever has the most wins? If so, then yes, America is the best.

i have healthcare, im not in jail, and i live in a nice house.


sux 2 b u.

[southernmissfan]

i have healthcare, im not in jail, and i live in a nice house.


sux 2 b u.

Oh so we are just trolling. I'll just move along then.

[Revolution starts with U]

I didn't know about the blood giving aspect, Bud. (It's a good point. I should give blood... but I'm kinda scared :lol: )
But didn't that study include donations to church as "charitable contributions?"

[Revolution starts with U]

Oh so we are just trolling. I'll just move along then.

No, it's not really trolling. That's where his basis starts; "it's good for me. Fuck you if it's not good for you... or anybody else."

"More for me and none for the rest has long been the mantra of the wealthy (or those who would wish to be)." ~Adam Smith (I think... maybe not)

[The Red Next Door]

On what basis? Totally awesome gap between rich and poor? An ass-kicking proportion of the population that is in jail/prison? The fact that the USA is so cool they are the only advanced, Western country without healthcare? That must be it, after all, being unique is cool.

Or is it on another basis? Like do we take a country, look at the number of countries they have interfered with/exploited, add that number up and whoever has the most wins? If so, then yes, America is the best.

Along with the fact that, you actually have people who live the Appalachia. Who live in total third world like poverty. A country, where the police is allow to body slam a 90 year old fucking woman and set somebody house to the ground with them in it. People use more drugs here than any country with a decent system for their people.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

America has some pretty crappy parts. But there's a reason why American capitalism didn't collapse politically; the working class here, thanks to a generous supply of suburban houses, good property, rich farmland, and an excellent strategic location has allowed the average American consumer a better life. There's little solidarity with appalachians and urban poor because most Americans don't live like that, and assume that the failures present in those groups are the fault of the people within those groups.

I'd certainly rather live in 1970s America than 1970s Albania. One should not exaggerate the mistakes of eastern european governments, but they weren't nice.

That said, the governments that replaced E European governments were no better.

[Lt. Ferret]

you can move from appalachia, like my wife did, and live in civilization. people that live there either want to live in the mountains, or are so useless as to not be a part of civilization.

[Revolution starts with U]

I'm gona go ahead and say the former. Your views on the handicapped are utterly disgusting Ferret... fitting name.

[RGacky3]

or are so useless as to not be a part of civilization.

And the truely useless ones join the US army.


i have healthcare, im not in jail, and i live in a nice house.


sux 2 b u.

And you clearly have some sort of little guy/little dick/was beat up in high school syndrome, because theres really no other explination for that sort of clearly trying-to-prove-something attitude.


the actual greatest countries in the world are sweden, norway, maybe denmark, then good ole USA.

THe US is way below that, below Canada, most of western europe, probably below Japan, and all that having the biggest economy, its sad really.


Conservatives Give More to Charity than Liberals?

Thursday April 10, 2008

Do "conservatives" give more to charitable causes than "liberals"? According to Syracuse University professor Arthur C. Brooks, they do. Dr. Brooks, a professor of public administration at Syracuse's Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs, was quite astounded with the results of his own research, which was so at variance with the common perception of the generous "liberal" and the Scrooge-like "conservative."

In his book, Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservativism (http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compassionate-Conservatism/dp/0465008232/ref=sr_oe_2_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201349815&sr=1-2) (Basic Books, 2006), Brooks discovered that approximately equal percentages of liberals and conservatives give to private charitable causes. However, conservatives gave about 30 percent more money per year to private charitable causes, even though his study found liberal families earned an average of 6 percent more per year in income than did conservative families. This greater generosity among conservative families proved to be true in Brooks' research for every income group, "from poor to middle class to rich."

This "giving gap" also extended beyond money to time donated to charitable causes, as well. Brooks also discovered that in 2002, conservative Americans were much more likely to donate blood each year than liberals and to do so more often within a year. Brooks found "if liberals and moderates gave blood at the same rate as conservatives, the blood supply in the United States would jump by about 45 percent."



Freedomworks, Americans for prosperity, the Cato institute, the chamber of commerse and so on ARE NOT CHARITY.

Your also forgetting that more rich people are conservatives.

[Revolution starts with U]

Actually Gacky, whereas if I remember correctly it is pretty much a bunk study, it didn't include any of that. But I do think it included donations to church... which is far from a direct contribution to charity (maybe some of that money went, but not all, or even most).

[RGacky3]

But I do think it included donations to church... which is far from a direct contribution to charity (maybe some of that money went, but not all, or even most).

Ahhh, it depends, many if not much church organizations are legitimate charities (i.e. actually helping those in need), some, for example anything Pat Robertson (a blasphemer imo) touches, goes to his diamond mine.

[Revolution starts with U]

But don't be mistaken. They do tend to volunteer more, and as Bud said, give more blood.
It comes from a culture where these welfare capitalists (the american left) feel that because they support welfare they can use that as their charity.... I don't disagree with such sentiments, but it's kind of a cop-out.
I also don't think it used any kind of weighted measure for income per capita. So, you have a lot of poor cons and libs, a substantial amount more middle class libs than cons, and a few rich libs but a lot of rich cons. So this inevitably skews the data on who gives more.
I've been looking for the review where I read all this, but I'm not an active student any more and can't proxy to the university servers (to get into the scholarly articles).

[Nolan]

It's because christians like to give blood. I've noticed this.

[Lt. Ferret]

And the truely useless ones join the US army.



And you clearly have some sort of little guy/little dick/was beat up in high school syndrome, because theres really no other explination for that sort of clearly trying-to-prove-something attitude.



THe US is way below that, below Canada, most of western europe, probably below Japan, and all that having the biggest economy, its sad really.



Freedomworks, Americans for prosperity, the Cato institute, the chamber of commerse and so on ARE NOT CHARITY.

Your also forgetting that more rich people are conservatives.


cry more you fucking loser. cry when the west does anything. applaud when sudan whips a woman for wearing pants.

you. fucking. suck.

you will never amount to anything, and further more, you will never spring forward any type of revolution.


guess what, most people in appalachia love the mountains, thats why they stay there. mountain men LIKE being mountain men. its not difficult to come down from the mountains and get a real job.

keep spouting ignorant bullshit every post if you want. and you call me disgusting, you've never even been to appalachia.

[Nolan]

Lol Ferret I'm from Appalachia. whats a mountain man

[teflon_john]

N/A

[Crimson Commissar]

Why are you even on this forum? You clearly disagree with everything that leftists stand for, and you don't seem to even want to debate with us. So why do you bother, why not just leave?

[Lt. Ferret]

what debate? you dont go anywhere, you dont know anything. i've been a leftist for about 12 years. you're just ignorant, and it certainly isnt me with a poor showing.



and if you dont know what mountain men are you are not from appalachia.

[Crimson Commissar]

what debate? you dont go anywhere, you dont know anything. i've been a leftist for about 12 years. you're just ignorant, and it certainly isnt me with a poor showing.



and if you dont know what mountain men are you are not from appalachia.
Being a strong supporter of the US and of capitalist oppression definitely isn't fucking leftist.

[Lt. Ferret]

unless you live in a goddamn shack making bombs to send to senators dont pretend like you dont aid, abet, support, and fucking hug the capitalist system every day of your life. enjoy your iphone.

[Revolution starts with U]

cry more you fucking loser. cry when the west does anything. applaud when sudan whips a woman for wearing pants.
Further evidence that Lt. Ferret has a very tiny penis :thumbup1:
Seriously, who cheers exploitation on this site? Seriously.... don't be a tool.


you. fucking. suck.
Non-sequiter. You're calling us sick for supportging sometghing no one here supportgs. Try again when you're not fuming about someone pointing out the inadequacy of your manhood ;)


you will never amount to anything, and further more, you will never spring forward any type of revolution.
you are sooo mad :laugh:
it's kind of cute



guess what, most people in appalachia love the mountains, thats why they stay there. mountain men LIKE being mountain men. its not difficult to come down from the mountains and get a real job. \
So why do you feel they should have to live in poverty just because they have a different (and peaceful.. relatively) lifestyle than you?


keep spouting ignorant bullshit every post if you want. and you call me disgusting, you've never even been to appalachia.
Most of my family comes from appalachia... but I'm not who you're responding to... so, whatever.
But I've been there nearly every year for family reunions. I remember last year my cousin heard a rustlin in the bushes and pulled out an oppossum with his bare hands. It was hilarious. :thumbup1:

[Nolan]

I know that like 100 years ago it was populated by trappers.

No one is a mountain man now unless you're talking about the random country boys that drift from job to job.

[Lt. Ferret]

Further evidence that Lt. Ferret has a very tiny penis :thumbup1:
Seriously, who cheers exploitation on this site? Seriously.... don't be a tool.


Non-sequiter. You're calling us sick for supportging sometghing no one here supportgs. Try again when you're not fuming about someone pointing out the inadequacy of your manhood ;)


you are sooo mad :laugh:
it's kind of cute


\
So why do you feel they should have to live in poverty just because they have a different (and peaceful.. relatively) lifestyle than you?


Most of my family comes from appalachia... but I'm not who you're responding to... so, whatever.
But I've been there nearly every year for family reunions. I remember last year my cousin heard a rustlin in the bushes and pulled out an oppossum with his bare hands. It was hilarious. :thumbup1:


if they voluntarily live there in what aspect are the "having" to live in poverty? they dont have to. they can move. to all the areas in appalachia that have decent paying jobs. but. they. like. the. freedom. they. have.


voluntarily living in poverty is NOT oppression.

[Lt. Ferret]

also my dick may be the height of mediocrity, but its not small. good job using sexist attacks one someone though.

[Palingenisis]

cry more you fucking loser. cry when the west does anything. applaud when sudan whips a woman for wearing pants.
.

Uh its normal for Muslim women to wear pants. ;)

[Revolution starts with U]

I'm just pushing your buttons. It's clear that comment made you VERY VERY angry. Even more so than when people call you imperialist swine. The most important part of my post (arguably the only important part) was when I said "try again when you're not fuming..."
(Also, it would be sexist if we said you had a vagina and that made you inadequate. As it is now, it was just masculine stereotyping :thumbup1: )

Perhaps they like their families and land, and way of life more than the "freedom to be poor."

[Lt. Ferret]

they can like whatever they want but if they knowingly have a voluntary lifestyle its ridiculous to consider them oppressed. the amish arent oppressed because they dont have electronic goods.

[Revolution starts with U]

Honestly, I don't recall calling them oppressed. But I still recognize we have all the resource we need to provide them with adequate housing and a stable food supply. Only personal want gets in the way...
It's like driving down the PCH (highway 1 in california). You'll pass 12 homeless people rightg before you pass a 12 bedroom house w a lockbox on it becuz the bank siezed, and it's just sitting there getting moldy.

[Palingenisis]

Can someone say off topic?

[Revolution starts with U]

Nothing is off topic, really tho. If one wants to get to the heart of any issue, one must get into the heart's of men and women. Draw out their true beliefs, and you will draw out where the justification comes from :thumbup1:

[Lt. Ferret]

yeah i ought to provide a guy resources he has willingly foregone in order to maintain a certain lifestyle.


i should provide beef to vegans, is what im being told.

[Revolution starts with U]

You're saying they want to live in poverty, rather than with their family, on their ancestral land. You're starting from a false premise in order to justify your disdain for other people.
If you have an abundance of beef and a starving vegan asks you for some, cuz he just can't take starving anymore.. yes, you shoudl provide it to him.

[RGacky3]

cry more you fucking loser. cry when the west does anything. applaud when sudan whips a woman for wearing pants.


Whosajiggawhat???

I don't need to cry, there are plenty of people around the world that cry when the west does something.

Difference is I have morals, and I condemn it.

Its easy for you to condemn sudan, because your not sudanese, your American, in the US army at that, so it gets a little harder.

Right wingers love to judge other people but look what happens when they get judged.


you. fucking. suck.

you will never amount to anything, and further more, you will never spring forward any type of revolution.


I'm getting over a cold, but I'll be ok.

The type of person who says "you will never amount to anything" is generally the type of person that has such an inferiority complex, that at slightest nudge will lash out like that, so hey man, keep it up.


its not difficult to come down from the mountains and get a real job.

keep spouting ignorant bullshit every post if you want. and you call me disgusting, you've never even been to appalachia.

Hav'nt I???

ignorant bullshit? So what have 17% of the US suddenly turned useless? Plus all the poor mining communities up there? Are they all too useless for a "real job,"

How about this, why don't you get a real job before spitting on poor people as you love to do (obviously due to some inferiority complex), and after that, still don't go around spitting on poor people because your own self-esteem problems just bleed through.


unless you live in a goddamn shack making bombs to send to senators dont pretend like you dont aid, abet, support, and fucking hug the capitalist system every day of your life.

And you benefit from socialism everyday of your life.


to all the areas in appalachia that have decent paying jobs. but. they. like. the. freedom. they. have.


Did you ask them that? Do homeless people also like the freedom they have???


also my dick may be the height of mediocrity, but its not small. good job using sexist attacks one someone though.

No one here has any idea, nor do we care what your penis size is, its a metaphor for your clear inferiority/power complex (which I get not only from this thread, but from many others, where a disdain for the poor and oppressed bleeds through, along with a desire to put anyone you can down).

[RGacky3]

You're saying they want to live in poverty, rather than with their family, on their ancestral land. You're starting from a false premise in order to justify your disdain for other people.
If you have an abundance of beef and a starving vegan asks you for some, cuz he just can't take starving anymore.. yes, you shoudl provide it to him.


You've got it exactly, he has a disdain from other people that comes from some inferiority complex (you'll find this in many right wingers, rush limbaugh being the prime example).

A normal human being will see someone in hard times and have empathy and compassion, and will treat that person with as much dignity as possible, because they have a sense of decency and that other people deserve respect no matter what, and they have fellow feeling.

Someone with a personality flaw (such as ferret), sees someone in hard times as an opportunity to try and prove his superiorty, and try to put that person down and show disdain for him, because he needs to reassure himself that he's of some worth, and the only way he can do that is by putting down others, calling them useless and the such, so that way he can go home and feel a little better about his little dick, because hey, at least he's not useless like those poor people out there.

[Lt. Ferret]

what inferiority complex? you guys are fucking idiots. certain lifestyles, mean you make certain choices. some lifestyles mean you give up certain things. that would include the voluntary lifestyle of living in the high mountains of appalachia.

these people are not ASKING for anything. they are ASKING to be left alone. those who ARE asking for anything are not living in the mountains of appalachia, but coming down from there and getting a job.

surely you are not so dense as to see what i am talking about.

[#FF0000]

I am from Appalachia. I am a mountain man.

But uh yeah what is this argument even about and why are we discussing dicks suddenly?

[Bud Struggle]

Back to Albanian dicks.

The only Great ruler of Albania was King Zog. He had that certain look:

http://www.teachersparadise.com/ency/en/media/d/df/kingzog.jpg

Hoxha is completely dull comparison:

http://image1.findagrave.com/photos/2010/63/49091085_126779574138.jpg

[psgchisolm]

unless you live in a goddamn shack making bombs to send to senators dont pretend like you dont aid, abet, support, and fucking hug the capitalist system every day of your life. enjoy your iphone.
This.

Being a strong supporter of the US and of capitalist oppression definitely isn't fucking leftist.
What makes him a supporter of capitalist oppression? Is it because he's in the military?

[Bud Struggle]

You've got it exactly, he has a disdain from other people that comes from some inferiority complex (you'll find this in many right wingers, rush limbaugh being the prime example).

A normal human being will see someone in hard times and have empathy and compassion, and will treat that person with as much dignity as possible, because they have a sense of decency and that other people deserve respect no matter what, and they have fellow feeling.

Someone with a personality flaw (such as ferret), sees someone in hard times as an opportunity to try and prove his superiorty, and try to put that person down and show disdain for him, because he needs to reassure himself that he's of some worth, and the only way he can do that is by putting down others, calling them useless and the such, so that way he can go home and feel a little better about his little dick, because hey, at least he's not useless like those poor people out there.

Nonsense. You are saying that humans have a nature! "Normal," "not normal." "Personality flaw." "Inferiority complex."

Brother Gacky, you have to get you insults in line with Socialist thinking. ;)

[brigadista]

Like some Spanish people I know who regularly travel to Cuba and stay with a family- they bring supplies such as "toothpaste"- I am not down on Cuba, but it isn't exactly paradise either. How much of this is down to Castro and how much to the embargo is of course open to debate.

well that is silly- Cubans can buy toothpaste- rural poverty in the US is worse than anything in Cuba

[Palingenisis]

Ive met one Cuban who was genuinely very educated (not just in terms of pieces of paper but really cultured). A friend of mine who is slightly right wing met the Cuban ambassador here and was impressed by him. It seems one of the most humane places in the region.

[Bud Struggle]

well that is silly- Cubans can buy toothpaste- rural poverty in the US is worse than anything in Cuba

Toothpaste is an American invention. You need it because it has been sold to you.

Thanks for your purchase. Please come again. :)

(I know because I make it. :) )

[brigadista]

your point being??

[Palingenisis]

Toothpaste is an American invention. You need it because it has been sold to you.


Is it? An American once told me that the USA was the first welfare state and got very annoyed when I mentioned Bismark's Germany and New Zealand. ;)

[Bud Struggle]

Is it? An American once told me that the USA was the first welfare state and got very annoyed when I mentioned Bismark's Germany and New Zealand. ;)

All I'm saying is that you talk here like it's an essential of life. It is a product--that does a good job of cleaning teeth--made by Procter and Gamble, Inc. There are other ways of cleaning teeth than using the products of an America mega corporation.

I'm just saying: don't think you need any "product" for granted. Some have just been sold to you so well, so well--that you don't even know you've been sold.

FWIW: Baking soda and water does 100% better job and 100% less the cost and no sugar added. :)

I make toothpase in my business. My kids use baking soda and water. I don't bring my stuff home. ;)

[Palingenisis]

Toothpaste is an American invention. You need it because it has been sold to you.


"Toothpastes or powders came into general use in the 19th century. The Greeks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece), and then the Romans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Rome), improved the recipes for toothpaste by adding abrasives such as crushed bones and oyster shells.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothpaste#cite_note-18) In the 9th century, the Persian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_people) musician and fashion designer Ziryab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziryab) invented a type of toothpaste, which he popularized throughout Islamic Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus).[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothpaste#cite_note-Sertima-19) The exact ingredients of this toothpaste are unknown,[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothpaste#cite_note-20) but it was reported to have been both "functional and pleasant to taste".[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothpaste#cite_note-Sertima-19) It is not known whether these early toothpastes were used alone, were to be rubbed onto the teeth with rags, or were to be used with early toothbrushes, such as neem-tree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neem_tree) twigs and miswak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miswak)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothpaste#Early_toothpastes

[Palingenisis]

Anyway I have too many consumer goods than is good for me.

Why I want socialism is I want lumpen gangs not to rule the streets of my estate, to be respected and free from fear as a woman and to live in society which is about everybody working for everybody else and not just some gombeen's profit.

[Bud Struggle]

"Toothpastes or powders came into general use in the 19th century. The Greeks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece), and then the Romans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Rome), improved the recipes for toothpaste by adding abrasives such as crushed bones and oyster shells.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothpaste#cite_note-18) In the 9th century, the Persian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_people) musician and fashion designer Ziryab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziryab) invented a type of toothpaste, which he popularized throughout Islamic Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus).[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothpaste#cite_note-Sertima-19) The exact ingredients of this toothpaste are unknown,[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothpaste#cite_note-20) but it was reported to have been both "functional and pleasant to taste".[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothpaste#cite_note-Sertima-19) It is not known whether these early toothpastes were used alone, were to be rubbed onto the teeth with rags, or were to be used with early toothbrushes, such as neem-tree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neem_tree) twigs and miswak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miswak)."



I know all of that--but when you are talking about "toothpaste" you are talking about a product make by one of 3 companines word wide.

Go in you bathroom and see who makes your toothpaste.

[Palingenisis]

Its not an AmeriKKKAn invention though, and if you know that why did you say it was? :rolleyes:

[ComradeMan]

well that is silly- Cubans can buy toothpaste- rural poverty in the US is worse than anything in Cuba

So the Spanish people I know must be lying then....

:rolleyes:

[Bud Struggle]

Anyway I have too many consumer goods than is good for me.

Why I want socialism is I want lumpen gangs not to rule the streets of my estate, to be respected and free from fear as a woman and to live in society which is about everybody working for everybody else and not just some gombeen's profit.

Paiengenisis in Wonderland:

http://www.lelalondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Alice-and-Wonderland-by-Grace-Coddington.jpg

[Dimentio]

Anyway I have too many consumer goods than is good for me.

Why I want socialism is I want lumpen gangs not to rule the streets of my estate, to be respected and free from fear as a woman and to live in society which is about everybody working for everybody else and not just some gombeen's profit.

Wut?

[Crimson Commissar]

Wut?
I don't see how you can be confused by that post...

[Palingenisis]

Wut?

Sorry Gombeen is Irish slang for a grubby little capitalist.

[brigadista]

So the Spanish people I know must be lying then....

:rolleyes:
it was on sale when i was there:)

[RGacky3]

what inferiority complex? you guys are fucking idiots. certain lifestyles, mean you make certain choices. some lifestyles mean you give up certain things. that would include the voluntary lifestyle of living in the high mountains of appalachia.

these people are not ASKING for anything. they are ASKING to be left alone. those who ARE asking for anything are not living in the mountains of appalachia, but coming down from there and getting a job.

surely you are not so dense as to see what i am talking about.


So your saying all those poor coal miners are just choosing a lifestyle? Or are they the "useless" ones.


Nonsense. You are saying that humans have a nature! "Normal," "not normal." "Personality flaw." "Inferiority complex."

Brother Gacky, you have to get you insults in line with Socialist thinking. http://www.revleft.com/vb/albania-than-and-t149391/revleft/smilies/wink.gif

Mixing apples and oranges Bud, humans not having a specific nature does not mean that personality flaws do not exist, i.e. a douchbag is still a douchbag.


I know all of that--but when you are talking about "toothpaste" you are talking about a product make by one of 3 companines word wide.


Because thats the way Capitalism works, it centralizes power.


There are other ways of cleaning teeth than using the products of an America mega corporation.

I'm just saying: don't think you need any "product" for granted. Some have just been sold to you so well, so well--that you don't even know you've been sold.

FWIW: Baking soda and water does 100% better job and 100% less the cost and no sugar added. :)

I make toothpase in my business. My kids use baking soda and water. I don't bring my stuff home. ;)

most people work 8 hours+ a day, live in the city and don't have the time energy or ability to get all those ingredients and make toothpaste, so what your saying is rediculously unrealistic.

[southernmissfan]

i have healthcare, im not in jail, and i live in a nice house.


sux 2 b u.

So America is the greatest country in the world (or at least one of the greatest) in your opinion because you have healthcare, you are not in jail and you live in a nice house?

If we are measuring "greatness" of a country purely upon your subjective opinion or experience, then another person's opinion that America is actually the worst country in the world is just as valid. Same with a third person's opinion that Sudan is actually the greatest country in the world. My point being that your statement has no merit or content. You might as well post "I'm the coolest kid in class because I said so".

If you want to say America is the greatest or one of the greatest based on a grouping of measurable, objective factors, well that's a different discussion. Which is why I asked what factors you were using. Surely it's not healthcare. Surely it's not crime or incarceration rates. Surely it's not the disparity between rich and poor. How exactly do you determine that the US is the greatest country (aside from blowing smoke out of your ass)?

Clearly you would rather troll than have a debate or discussion. That makes your presence here pointless, if not counterproductive, and one has to wonder why you are still here (or allowed to be here). After all, OI exists to provide a platform for those who are not revolutionary leftists to have discussions and debates with us. If you are interested in neither, then clearly there is no purpose in you being here and that should be taken care of one way or another. If you wish to troll people for shits and giggles, go back to 4chan bro.

[Lt. Ferret]

So America is the greatest country in the world (or at least one of the greatest) in your opinion because you have healthcare, you are not in jail and you live in a nice house?

If we are measuring "greatness" of a country purely upon your subjective opinion or experience, then another person's opinion that America is actually the worst country in the world is just as valid. Same with a third person's opinion that Sudan is actually the greatest country in the world. My point being that your statement has no merit or content. You might as well post "I'm the coolest kid in class because I said so".

If you want to say America is the greatest or one of the greatest based on a grouping of measurable, objective factors, well that's a different discussion. Which is why I asked what factors you were using. Surely it's not healthcare. Surely it's not crime or incarceration rates. Surely it's not the disparity between rich and poor. How exactly do you determine that the US is the greatest country (aside from blowing smoke out of your ass)?

Clearly you would rather troll than have a debate or discussion. That makes your presence here pointless, if not counterproductive, and one has to wonder why you are still here (or allowed to be here). After all, OI exists to provide a platform for those who are not revolutionary leftists to have discussions and debates with us. If you are interested in neither, then clearly there is no purpose in you being here and that should be taken care of one way or another. If you wish to troll people for shits and giggles, go back to 4chan bro.


IM trolling? are you joking? The premise started with who has it better, people in Cuba or people in the United States. I said United States.

That got me the typical reaction of "OH YEAH BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HUH STUPID AMERI****S WITH NO HEALTHCARE AND EVERYONE IS IN JAIL AND WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE LIVING IN SHACKS IN THE MOUNTAINS HUH?"

yeah fine, that old temper tantrum of finding imperfections in the United States, as if every country on the planet couldn't have a list of objectively worse qualities than the United States, depending on what you listed.


So I clarified, no, actually I think the greatest country in the world would be Denmark, Sweden, or Norway, functioning and progressive social democracies. Then after most of those nations, I would put United States somewhere. This of course led to every Leftist on the board, who are either in the United States or United Kingdom, with a few sprinkled in other western regions, to shit a brick.

I'm trolling in the sense that a few of you are being absolutely, unrepentedly dense and combative over something stupid and I really don't have the urge to get into detail for very long on why some things in the United States are not utopian. I'm not a utopian. Never will be. I don't really urge to reach for utopia, since it will fall short.

And yes, corner me, I think where the poverty rate for a family of 4 is $22,350 is a country that does have a lot of wealth. There are a lot of countries where that is an amount of money they could not dream of possessing. I understand there is a massive disparity in American society, I was born on the wrong side of it. All I have are anecdotes, but I am a product of social mobility.

Also when you compare the US to countries where gang raping men, women, and children is a normal tactic of war (Democratic Republic of the Congo), where leaving the Islamic religion warrants stoning to death (Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan), warriors kill infants and wipe their blood on each other to protect against bullets (Liberia), the United States is far from the worst country in the world.

Troll indeed.

[Palingenisis]

Also when you compare the US to countries where gang raping men, women, and children is a normal tactic of war (Democratic Republic of the Congo), where leaving the Islamic religion warrants stoning to death (Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan), warriors kill infants and wipe their blood on each other to protect against bullets (Liberia), the United States is far from the worst country in the world.

Troll indeed.

I very much doubt that it warrants that in Turkey (or Iraq)...Infact you have made that up. Turkey is probably the most liberal of the Islamic countries.

[ComradeMan]

I very much doubt that it warrants that in Turkey (or Iraq)...Infact you have made that up. Turkey is probably the most liberal of the Islamic countries.

Turkey is officially a secular state.

[Lt. Ferret]

I very much doubt that it warrants that in Turkey (or Iraq)...Infact you have made that up. Turkey is probably the most liberal of the Islamic countries.

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/dilberk.htm

http://bianet.org/english/people/21434-honor-killings-in-turkey

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/girl-buried-alive-in-honor-killing-in-turkey.html

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2010/02/05/Details-of-honor-killing-shocks-Turkey/UPI-13441265385117/

want to avoid honor killing, ladies? well, just kill yourself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/16/world/europe/16turkey.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/women-told-you-have-dishonoured-your-family-please-kill-yourself-1655373.html



a couple iraqi kurd ones

http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=75714

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rgSH0h45Eo

this lucky lass was raped by her family and local community morality police before they honor killed her.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/07/19/us-britain-kurd-idUSL1919223520070719


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#Middle_East

A June 2008 report by the Turkish Prime Ministry's Human Rights Directorate said that in Istanbul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul) alone there was one honor killing every week, and reported over 1,000 during the previous five years. It added that metropolitan cities were the location of many of these, due to growing Kurdish immigration to these cities from the East.[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#cite_note-28) In 2009 a Turkish news agency reported that a 2-day-old boy who was born out of wedlock had been killed for honor. The maternal grandmother of the infant, along with six other persons, including a doctor who had reportedly accepted a bribe to not report the birth, were arrested. The grandmother is suspected of fatally suffocating the infant. The child's mother, 25, was also arrested; she stated that her family had made the decision to kill the child.

[Palingenisis]

Turkey is officially a secular state.

But culturally its Islamic so it can be called Islamic the same way that Ireland can be called Roman Catholic. Anyway Lt Lemming was lying saying that the state stones people there for leaving Islam.

[Lt. Ferret]

when did i say the state does it? That's more of an Iran thing.

[brigadista]

when did i say the state does it? That's more of an Iran thing.

er what exactly does this mean?

[Lt. Ferret]

if this is one of those days where you guys play dumb and i have to rummage through google finding links to validate something you already know im not in the mood.

[brigadista]

just asking:(

[ComradeMan]

But culturally its Islamic so it can be called Islamic the same way that Ireland can be called Roman Catholic. Anyway Lt Lemming was lying saying that the state stones people there for leaving Islam.

I don't think you can say "culturally" Islamic without running into a myriad of problems. The Islamic culture of Turkey is not that of Saudi Arabia, to take two extremes. It would be like saying the "Catholic" culture of Italy is the same as that of Ireland etc...

It's too vague.

[Lt. Ferret]

I would say its mostly the turkish kurds who do this kind of shenanigans.

[Apoi_Viitor]

I know this is off topic now, but:


If I like it I thank it.

Besides it's a proven fact that Conservatives are kinder people than Liberals.

That's because according to the author, donating to your church counts as charity... If you take religious background into consideration and compare secular liberals vs. secular conservatives and religious liberals vs. religious conservatives, you'd find little discrepancy. Because liberals tend to be more secular than conservatives, not accounting for this in the data will end up with your results skewed towards conservatism.

[Bud Struggle]

I know this is off topic now, but:



That's because according to the author, donating to your church counts as charity... If you take religious background into consideration and compare secular liberals vs. secular conservatives and religious liberals vs. religious conservatives, you'd find little discrepancy. Because liberals tend to be more secular than conservatives, not accounting for this in the data will end up with your results skewed towards conservatism.

Money given is money given Comrade. And much aid given to churches goes to good causes. I give all my money to Catholic Charities--they do the best job of getting the most to the people that need it. You'll find that with a the Mormons, and the Sevent Day Adventist and the Baptists. I give to MY charity because it does the best job.

Aid to Hurricane Katrina victims was ALL ABOUT the Mormons. Not the American government and not the Left.

[Revolution starts with U]

There's a difference between a christian charity and giving to a church directly tho, Bud. And I'm pretty sure (once again, can't find the review) that the study included donations to church as donations to charity.

[#FF0000]

itt: people talk about giving to charity like it makes someone a good person or is really all that helpful

[Bud Struggle]

There's a difference between a christian charity and giving to a church directly tho, Bud. And I'm pretty sure (once again, can't find the review) that the study included donations to church as donations to charity.

Fine. I'm sure it also included giving to the Communist Party or Trotsky Statue Erection Societies or Community soup kitchens or whatever... Consevatives give more--and better.

[Bud Struggle]

itt: people talk about giving to charity like it makes someone a good person or is really all that helpful

It's better than being a cheep bastard just waiting for the Revolution.

[Revolution starts with U]

Fine. I'm sure it also included giving to the Communist Party or Trotsky Statue Erection Societies or Community soup kitchens or whatever... Consevatives give more--and better.

Case closed.

I'm starting to doubt you have any money at all, Bud. And that your claims of being wealthy are a fairy tale...
Else you would know how a 1040 works and that the study relied primarily on tax records.....
Giving to political orginizations is not considered charity, but givng to your church is. Or do you just let your acct do your taxes?

Besides, if you go back, I pointed out to Gack that they do tend to volunteer more and give more blood. Once again you mistake one pointing out you not giving a truthful account of things for outright disagreement...
Maybe it's because you're simple minded, maybe because you're a capitalist and therefore focused only on "winning."
Idk, but it gets annoying sometimes :rolleyes:

(Also, I thought you had said many times you're an american liberal...?)

[#FF0000]

It's better than being a cheep bastard just waiting for the Revolution.

I didn't realize liberals were waiting for "revolution".

[Crimson Commissar]

It's better than being a cheep bastard just waiting for the Revolution.
Even that's better than being a sick bastard who is in full support of the system that makes it necessary for charities to exist.

[#FF0000]

see also:
"When I give food to the poor, I am called a saint; when I ask why the poor have no food, I am called a communist."

Dom Hélder Câmara

[Revolution starts with U]

He's certainly no master of nuance... or memory... :rolleyes:
You see what you want to see Bud. That is the core reason you're a capitalist. :thumbup1:

[ComradeMan]

Guys- being charitable is not about politics. A bowl of rice given gladly.... ;)

Are we going to have a flamefest about who is more charitable? Perhaps people with more money do tend to give more- but perhaps that's because they have more disposable income? I think it depends on the person, not the politics.

Isn't the UK considered to be one of the most charitable countries in terms of donations etc?

[Bud Struggle]

I'm starting to doubt you have any money at all, Bud. And that your claims of being wealthy are a fairy tale...
Else you would know how a 1040 works and that the study relied primarily on tax records.....
Giving to political orginizations is not considered charity, but givng to your church is. Or do you just let your acct do your taxes?

Besides, if you go back, I pointed out to Gack that they do tend to volunteer more and give more blood. Once again you mistake one pointing out you not giving a truthful account of things for outright disagreement...
Maybe it's because you're simple minded, maybe because you're a capitalist and therefore focused only on "winning."
Idk, but it gets annoying sometimes :rolleyes:

(Also, I thought you had said many times you're an american liberal...?)

I know how taxes work. I never give to political organizations (except I gave Brian Moore $100, when he ran for gov of Florida.) But it's not about tax deductions--it's about giving to what you believe in.

(I may be a liberal, but I'm Catholic--so that's where I give my money.)

[Revolution starts with U]

I'm telling you what the study included. You can either use the study as it was. Or as you want to see it.
There are a myriad factors skewing the data on that study that doesn't make it so simple as "x people do this, y people do that."

Did you just read the headline and decide you like it? Or did you actually go in, read the study, read critiques of said study, and then come to a decision?

[Bud Struggle]

I'm telling you what the study included. You can either use the study as it was. Or as you want to see it.
There are a myriad factors skewing the data on that study that doesn't make it so simple as "x people do this, y people do that."

Did you just read the headline and decide you like it? Or did you actually go in, read the study, read critiques of said study, and then come to a decision?

The study boils down to Conservative people give more money, time and bodily fluids to the causes they believe in the Liberals.

Do you see anything else there?

[brigadista]

conservatives generally have more money - that is why they are conservatives - i think you confuse patrimony with kindness

[gorillafuck]

This is an interesting thing....A lot of the working class in the USA doesnt have access to healthcare or decent education but they do have access to loads of consumer goods...While if you are living in Cuba everyone has access to healthcare and good education but not to consumer goods....So who is worse off? :confused:
Cuba is a third world country so obviously there aren't many consumer goods there. Comparing the US to Cuba as a way of proving that the Cuban system provides a low standard of living is really stupid.


Pretty much the story of Eastern Europe, it seems. Except for Poland.
Well living in eastern bloc Poland was incredibly shitty.


It's better than being a cheep bastard just waiting for the Revolution.
Everybody has a fuckload of disposable income and nobody can tell me otherwise!!


I very much doubt that it warrants that in Turkey (or Iraq)...Infact you have made that up. Turkey is probably the most liberal of the Islamic countries.
Tell that to Kurds.

[Bud Struggle]

conservatives generally have more money - that is why they are conservatives - i think you confuse patrimony with kindness


But the survey cut across the board, from the conservative poor to the conservative rich--each category gave more than the liberal poor to the liberal rich.

[Revolution starts with U]

As I've said like 20x, the money part is heavily skewed and not a fair representation. These problems arise from the distribution of income levels between 2 groups (lots of poor in both, more mids in libs, more rich in cons... because it doesn't weigh income levels at all, merely compares them w the libs coming out on top, even tho it's not really reflective of reality).
I also see the culture of liberalism where they see themselves as in support of the welfare state and count THAT as their charity (and probably are far more likely NOT to cheat on their taxes because of it).

I'm saying what I would say when anyone brings up ONE study to prove a point... things aren't quite that simple.

[gorillafuck]

But the survey cut across the board, from the conservative poor to the conservative rich--each category gave more than the liberal poor to the liberal rich.
1) I don't give a shit and if you think that's politically relevant then get a grip.

2) Actually show the survey and details when you talk about stuff like that.

[Bud Struggle]

1) I don't give a shit and if you think that's politically relevant then get a grip.

2) Actually show the survey and details when you talk about stuff like that.

Calm down Comrade--we're just chatting. :rolleyes:

[Bud Struggle]

I'm saying what I would say when anyone brings up ONE study to prove a point... things aren't quite that simple.

I agree. Bring up another study to prove YOUR point. :)

[ComradeMan]

Calm down Comrade--we're just chatting. :rolleyes:

LOL!!!!

If you look at nations and the amount they give to charity- I don't think it depends so much on political ideology.

[#FF0000]

Guys- being charitable is not about politics. A bowl of rice given gladly.... http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/wink.gif

Are we going to have a flamefest about who is more charitable? Perhaps people with more money do tend to give more- but perhaps that's because they have more disposable income? I think it depends on the person, not the politics.

Isn't the UK considered to be one of the most charitable countries in terms of donations etc?


This is from ComradeMan. He made a reasonable post that I agree with. That is how silly you are being, Bud.

[gorillafuck]

Calm down Comrade--we're just chatting. :rolleyes:
I'm not uncalm.


I agree. Bring up another study to prove YOUR point.
You haven't even shown your own study. Also, this isn't relevant at all to the topic at hand.

[Revolution starts with U]

On another note, I haven't claimed any of my volunteer hours because I claim the standard deduction...
This just reminds me; one should always be suspect when a "scientist" does a study and publishes it in a book, but not a journal.

But it IS politically relevant if the left isn't willing to put their "money" where their "mouth is." On that I agree with you Bud.

[gorillafuck]

But it IS politically relevant if the left isn't willing to put their "money" where their "mouth is." On that I agree with you Bud.
....you think the job of those who promote class struggle is to give money to charity?

My god, this is like when Glenn Beck was trying to prove he cares more about people than socialists by saying he gives a lot to charity. Well Glenn, you make a lot of fucking money.

[Revolution starts with U]

....you think the job of those who promote class struggle is to give money to charity?

My god, this is like when Glenn Beck was trying to prove he cares more about people than socialists by saying he gives a lot to charity. Well Glenn, you make a lot of fucking money.

No, but giving to charity will show people you care about more than just rhetoric. It is a broad lifestyle I would advocate that includes giving to charity and volunteering if you can, standing with workers at strikes, political activism, etc.

There is a tendency amongst rightists to dismiss the left as just sitting around complaining. If we can prove that wrong, so much the better.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It's better than being a cheep bastard just waiting for the Revolution.

hpAMbpQ8J7g

[ComradeMan]

No, but giving to charity will show people you care about more than just rhetoric. It is a broad lifestyle I would advocate that includes giving to charity and volunteering if you can, standing with workers at strikes, political activism, etc.

There is a tendency amongst rightists to dismiss the left as just sitting around complaining. If we can prove that wrong, so much the better.

I agree (until we have an etymological argument about the meaning of charity ;) :lol: )!

But seriously, hey- helping the next guy is about being a human being- not ideology and yeah, I do give as much as I can and have cooked up food for homeless people too. I didn't do this because of being a leftist, or for spiritual reasons- but just simple humanity.

Tikkun Olam! ;)

[gorillafuck]

No, but giving to charity will show people you care about more than just rhetoric. It is a broad lifestyle I would advocate that includes giving to charity and volunteering if you can, standing with workers at strikes, political activism, etc.
Class struggle isn't a lifestyle. Also, the aim of class struggle isn't getting people to give to charity so how would that show we aren't just about rhetoric?

If I was struggling to make ends meet I wouldn't be fucking giving large amounts to charity.


There is a tendency amongst rightists to dismiss the left as just sitting around complaining. If we can prove that wrong, so much the better.
You think that would actually change the way they talk?:confused:

[gorillafuck]

maybe if we all gave money to charity the ruling class would go easy because they'd see we're nice people

[gorillafuck]

or maybe just give up their property altogether you never know!

[Revolution starts with U]

It's not about convincing your enemy, that's what actual worker and political struggles are for.
The point is to convince the poeple who have yet to choose a side, or those who are waffling on the opposite side.

I laughed tho :laugh::thumbup1:

[Palingenisis]

Tell that to Kurds.

Liberal as in culturally. Ireland is now pretty liberal culturally north and south (it wasnt in the 1980s and abortion is still illegal across the island) but its still the most repressive country in the whole of the EU in terms of political laws (in the 26 counties you can be sent to prison for 8 years if a pig suspects that you are in an illegal organization).

[Bud Struggle]

....you think the job of those who promote class struggle is to give money to charity?


No but it makes you popular--did you ever wonder why you Communist's aren't popular with that working poor and the Born Again Christians are?

Ever wonder at all? Read Rev's post at #122.

[gorillafuck]

No but it makes you popular--did you ever wonder why you Communist's aren't popular with that working poor and the Born Again Christians are?

Ever wonder at all? Read Rev's post at #122.
The religious right isn't popular because they give money to fucking charity. How can you sensibly think that's why?

God fucking dammit I hate all of you.

[brigadista]

born again xtians and betting shops the only way out for the poor -on a dream-reflection of desperation and no way out poverty - and sometimes the only way to feed yourself in the absence of a welfare safety net

[Palingenisis]

born again xtians and betting shops the only way out for the poor -on a dream-reflection of desperation and no way out poverty - and sometimes the only way to feed yourself in the absence of a welfare safety net

Occasionally its interesting to go to "soup kitchens", at least for me, weird mix of immigrants (who are often pretty super-exploited here, sickeningly so), kids who dont want to go home or whom its pointless to go home, punks, crusties and assorted lumpens (junkies, etc). The way that born-agains creepily make sure that everyone has to listen to a sermon first by letting people in, giving them an number on entry and closing the door is something else.

[Palingenisis]

God fucking dammit I hate all of you.

A lot of black Churches in fairness are quite radical. I kinda like the Rev Al Sharpton.

[Bud Struggle]

The religious right isn't popular because they give money to fucking charity. How can you sensibly think that's why?

God fucking dammit I hate all of you.

You have Commies something like this:

cREB3lbXar8

Comrade, they sell their soap--you don't.

[Palingenisis]

I have nothing against people being religious but I really detest USAan "Born Again" Christianity. Its growing here all the time and what I wonder is that if people dont want to be Roman Catholic why cant they Church of Ireland or Presbetyerian? Why take up the most ugly form of Protestantism imaginable?

[Palingenisis]

I guess native Irish protestantism is rather dour and reserved...But it fits the landscape...I really love those old severe looking Church of Ireland chapels that you find in the countryside...Maybe Im being a nationalist but I just find these cheesy mega-Churches an pollution that I dont want.

[Revolution starts with U]

Cuz you can absolve all your sins by doing no more than saying "I believe in God"

BA christians are the capitalist version of christianity; quick, easy, and marketable.. but with no real substance.

[The Red Next Door]

Occasionally its interesting to go to "soup kitchens", at least for me, weird mix of immigrants (who are often pretty super-exploited here, sickeningly so), kids who dont want to go home or whom its pointless to go home, punks, crusties and assorted lumpens (junkies, etc). The way that born-agains creepily make sure that everyone has to listen to a sermon first by letting people in, giving them an number on entry and closing the door is something else.


Junkies are not lumpens, they are victims of capitalism.

[Bud Struggle]

I have nothing against people being religious but I really detest USAan "Born Again" Christianity. Its growing here all the time and what I wonder is that if people dont want to be Roman Catholic why cant they Church of Ireland or Presbetyerian? Why take up the most ugly form of Protestantism imaginable?

They fill the hole in people's lives that Communism can't. That's why Christianity is grown by such leaps and bounds in India and in China (now the largest Christian country in the world.)

It's good stuff.

They offer peace on earth and life everlasting.

What do you offer?--peanuts.

[Revolution starts with U]

We offer peace and prosperity ON EARTH, not in some distant realm that may/may not exist.

... the only real difference is ours requires work. There's requires merely a head nod.

[Palingenisis]

They offer peace on earth and life everlasting.

What do you offer?--peanuts.

Born again Churches in Ireland dont offer peace on earth. They peddle militant support for Bush jr era US foreign policy and pretty far out hatred of Muslims. I think these type of churches could be being funded by the CIA or something.

I mean my dad is a very low Church protestant...But his idea of an ideal state was the DDR, their ideal is Reagan USA.

And if people want to be religious they be religious. I dont care and neither am I a hater...But these mega-Churches have a political agenda that isnt very nice.

[ComradeMan]

and assorted lumpens (junkies, etc).


Head in hands!!! :crying:

I don't agree with hard drugs etc, but I don't see "junkies" as being anything other than victims of the whole evil set up.

The milk of human kindness is flowing I see....

[Bud Struggle]

We offer peace and prosperity ON EARTH, not in some distant realm that may/may not exist.

... the only real difference is ours requires work. There's requires merely a head nod.

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/klaatu.jpg

Lots of people promise that. You believe in Marx, I believe in Catholicism. Both promise the same thing.

[Palingenisis]

Junkies are not lumpens, they are victims of capitalism.

Most lumpens are to varying degrees victims of capitalism. Junkies to feed their habit prey on working class communities, often particularly the elderly.

[Revolution starts with U]

:confused:

[ComradeMan]

Most lumpens are to varying degrees victims of capitalism. Junkies to feed their habit prey on working class communities, often particularly the elderly.

So both the junkies and their victims are the victims of organised crime and narco-capitalism. ;)

Think things through logically- it helps.

[#FF0000]

Head in hands!!! :crying:

I don't agree with hard drugs etc, but I don't see "junkies" as being anything other than victims of the whole evil set up.

The milk of human kindness is flowing I see....

It's not really one or the other. I really disagree with how people take the lumpenproletariat and say "THEY ARE BADGUYS N CRIMINALS HURRFURUF"

I mean it's true that the class includes them, but the "vagrants and beggars" are more victims than anything else.

Being "lumpen", like being of any class, doesn't really mean anything other than you have particular class interests. It definitely doesn't mean that you are actively acting in your class interests, though.

[Bud Struggle]

Born again Churches in Ireland dont offer peace on earth. They peddle militant support for Bush jr era US foreign policy and pretty far out hatred of Muslims. I think these type of churches could be being funded by the CIA or something.

I mean my dad is a very low Church protestant...But his idea of an ideal state was the DDR, their ideal is Reagan USA.

And if people want to be religious they be religious. I dont care and neither am I a hater...But these mega-Churches have a political agenda that isnt very nice.

That's their business. If people want to take the politics they learned in the pews to the streets...

That's their freedom of choice.

[Palingenisis]

That's their business. If people want to take the politics they learned in the pews to the streets...

That's their freedom of choice.

Look you go to a normal protestant Church in Dublin and you will hear a sermon on the reading of the day....You dont get the minister telling you that God wants you to hate Arabs or whatever. Opinions have real life consequences on other people. So no. Its not just their business.

Look their is Islam however fundamentalist and than there is the Political Islam of the Jihadists who are often most hated by pious fundamentalist Muslims. We are bad off enough with the Free Presbetyerians (who I consider fascist and a couple of their ministers have convictions for sectarian violence) without these scum.

[RGacky3]

yeah fine, that old temper tantrum of finding imperfections in the United States, as if every country on the planet couldn't have a list of objectively worse qualities than the United States, depending on what you listed.


We list the important things, healthcare, infant mortality, poverty rates, living standards, crime and so on.

I guess if you go by number of malls as the measure of a society then yeah USA #1 #1 #1.


Then after most of those nations, I would put United States somewhere. This of course led to every Leftist on the board, who are either in the United States or United Kingdom, with a few sprinkled in other western regions, to shit a brick.


In most of the developed world, when it comes to measures of society, the US is pretty far back, which is entirely systemic, the US has a bad system, economically and politically (mainly due to the economy).


And yes, corner me, I think where the poverty rate for a family of 4 is $22,350 is a country that does have a lot of wealth. There are a lot of countries where that is an amount of money they could not dream of possessing.

Seriously economists measure poverty based on the specific society they are talking about, such as cost of living and so on, you can't just go by monetary standards.


the United States is far from the worst country in the world.


Then don't say you think it is.

[#FF0000]

That's their business. If people want to take the politics they learned in the pews to the streets...

That's their freedom of choice.

The churches they get their politics from should lose tax-exempt status, too.

[RGacky3]

Yes Bud, people do and should have freedom of speach, but if you LIE to people and tell them things that hurt other people, you are responsible for what you say.

[brigadista]

A lot of black Churches in fairness are quite radical. I kinda like the Rev Al Sharpton.

not all

[#FF0000]

Sharpton is a mook of a pretty high order. And most black churches aren't very radical at all. They talk a big game on social justice but mention anything related to gay people or other similar issues and it is the worst stuff you've ever heard in your life.

This is from my personal experience as a singer in a gospel choir. Really.

[Bud Struggle]

Look you go to a normal protestant Church in Dublin and you will hear a sermon on the reading of the day....You dont get the minister telling you that God wants you to hate Arabs or whatever. Opinions have real life consequences on other people. So no. Its not just their business.


Yea girl. It's called freedom of religion and freedom of speech. You want to tell people "believe in Mao" or "believe in Communism." Do that also! GET OUT THERE!!

And may the best philosophy take all. :D

[brigadista]

that lakewood church looks like it is raking it in!

anyone ever heard of this tithing scam by some churches?

[RGacky3]

Yea girl. It's called freedom of religion and freedom of speech. You want to tell people "believe in Mao" or "believe in Communism." Do that also! GET OUT THERE!!

And may the best philosophy take all. :D

Its a fair fight if we all get equal funding.

Your comparing apples and oranges btw.


They talk a big game on social justice but mention anything related to gay people or other similar issues and it is the worst stuff you've ever heard in your life.

This is from my personal experience as a singer in a gospel choir. Really.

And what? That does'nt undue the positive stuff they do for social justice.

[Palingenisis]

Yea girl. It's called freedom of religion and freedom of speech. You want to tell people "believe in Mao" or "believe in Communism." Do that also! GET OUT THERE!!

And may the best philosophy take all. :D

Ideas have consequences...The Free Presbetyerians were ranting against Roman Catholics since the early 50s and that ranting exploded in sectarian pogroms. I dont want Irish Muslims or anyone who looks middle eastern to go through that shit.

[#FF0000]

And what? That does'nt undue the positive stuff they do for social justice.

I think perpetuating gender stereotypes and actively advocating against and slandering people who don't follow them doesn't really go away just because you give out some turkeys every year.

[Bud Struggle]

Its a fair fight if we all get equal funding.

Your comparing apples and oranges btw. Get your own funding. A dollar from a billion workers is equal to a billion dollars from a Capitalist. You have the numbers, remember?

Go for it, Brother!

[danyboy27]

Get your own funding. A dollar from a billion workers is equal to a billion dollars from a Capitalist. You have the numbers, remember?

Go for it, Brother!

amassing money is less profitable than investing it in a buisness where people are exploited.

a capitalist could raise a billion dollars faster than any worker organisation.

he dosnt have to distribute it fairly, he could move it around in investement while his worker are flipping burger for the minimum wage.

That precisely why big unions cant raise enough money to purchase the mean of production they are using, beccause they have to be fair with the money they are collecting from their members, it must be done properly and invested in things democraticly elected representatives agree with.

they didnt screwed or frauded nobody to stack that money, they didnt sell a cookie box 5 dollars when it was worth 30 cents, or a hamberguer 2 dollars when it was worth 43 cents.

that why its damn hard getting that much money has a worker or worker organisation, beccause we dont screw nobody.

[Bright Banana Beard]

Wait, we aren't talking about Albania anymore!?

Fuck..... Someone split the offtopics.... Please....