There is a problem in the world-left, that problem is The Progressives

[MarxistMan]

Dear friends: I think that there is a big problem in the left all over the world. And that problem is the reformist-left (progressives). The progressives have kidnapped the socialism ideology, marxism, the symbols and logos of Marx for their Political Parties. We all know that progressives are social-democrat and capitalists (centrists). And not leftists. But average joes out there think that progressives like Michael Moore, Chris Hedges, Michael Parenti, Amy Goodman, Zapatero, Michelle Bachelet, Felipe Gonzalez, Naomi Klein and Alexander Cockburn are socialists

Because to be a socialist a person has to be marxist, leninist, trotskist, maoists and fans and followers of the founders of political socialism of the 1800s and early 1900s.

Thanks, i would like your comments, on how progressives have destroyed the real-left in USA and in other countries


MarxistMan

[The Idler]

What does the difference boil down to though?
Self-identification as a Marxist?
Supporting socialist economics instead of state-capitalism/Keynesian capitalism?

[L.A.P.]

If anything, progressive pseudo-socialists like Lawrence O'Donell help the cause by opening people up to the idea.

[Victus Mortuum]

Progressives today are those who fight within the electoral system to try to -defend- the working class against the class war that the ruling class is waging against them from the 'behind the curtain', so to speak, of the state. Whether it is an effective strategy is up to discuss, but they generally have their intentions in the correct place. I mean, universal health insurance would be good for the working class - even if it's not what we would say we should be struggling for - we certainly shouldn't oppose such measures if they are brought forward, but push for more and better changes. I mean, Michael Moore and the rest are decisively anti-capitalist and push for generally socialist-esque positions - what's the problem with them? They warm people up to more radical ideas.

[ComradeOm]

I've got 99 problems with 'the Left' but reformists aren't one. I don't particularly like them but it is ludicrous to claim that Michael Moore et al have "destroyed the real-left". Reformists become a problem when they stand in the way of a revolutionary proletariat; until this moment they are generally harmless and at best do contribute to raising class conciousness. Turning your fire on these fools, when there are much more pressing critiques to be raised with capitalism, is a waste of time

This is just an example of the relentless naval-grazing that 'the Left' likes to indulge in. And that is a real problem

[norwegianwood90]

The problem isn't so much that American progressives have destroyed the radical left in America. The reality is that American conservatives/reactionaries have moved the American political center so far to the right. Richard Nixon would likely be a moderate-to-liberal member of the Democratic Party today. Despite the American right's near-religious worship of Ronald Reagan, he would likely be unable to obtain the Republican party's nomination for office because he--Ronald Reagan--would not be reactionary enough in 2011. I suspect that many American progressives would, if they lived in Europe, belong to a social democratic party (at best) or a center-right Christian Democratic party (at worst). The ideas of American progressives are certainly better than those of American conservatives and reactionaries. Isn't the point that we should not have to simply acquiesce to a lesser of two evils?

Since the start of the Cold War (if not sooner), the American ruling class has constantly linked attempted to link socialism with Stalinism. Sadly, they've been quite successful. Many average, working class Americans, who certainly have nothing to gain under capitalism, live with a Glenn Beck-ian fear of "socialism." Of course, neither they nor Glenn Beck use "socialism," "communism," or "Marxism" the way the radical left does. They associate those terms (which they use interchangeably) with "big government" and "tyranny."

[Victus Mortuum]

Yes, but over a third of Americans are comfortable with the term socialism. The problem isn't reformists/progressives but rather the fact that in order to remain in the political system you have to have corporations hold your hands. The spectrum has moved right largely because of increasing corporate power over government economic policy thanks to neo-liberalism, globalization, and supreme court rulings. Our government has lost what little democratic character it had to corporate power (as have most other governments in our position).

I just do not think the problem lies with the people, but with the institutions that the people believe they can make legitimate change happen through. In spite of all of the shit that is happening to them, the American public clings to the notion that the government system that rules them is still the only reasonable way to try to make change (or they've given up and believe there is no other reasonable option as low voter turnout indicates).

[MarxistMan]

You are right electoral politics is real expensive, and that's why some socialists-marxists, become progressive-liberals (Centrists) and move a bit to the center in order to be closer where money is. I know it sounds too materialist, but without money you can't even create a news website, a political party or even travel to political meetings. so maybe the problem is lack of money in the revolutionary marxist parties, lack of money to compete in elections. We are doomed within this money-oriented political system. I think that the only realist solution will have to be waiting for USA to collapse completely or some heroic action by angry desperate leftist heroes in the near future when the US economy is a bit worse than now and the revolutionary conditions would be stronger in USA


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Yes, but over a third of Americans are comfortable with the term socialism. The problem isn't reformists/progressives but rather the fact that in order to remain in the political system you have to have corporations hold your hands. The spectrum has moved right largely because of increasing corporate power over government economic policy thanks to neo-liberalism, globalization, and supreme court rulings. Our government has lost what little democratic character it had to corporate power (as have most other governments in our position).

I just do not think the problem lies with the people, but with the institutions that the people believe they can make legitimate change happen through. In spite of all of the shit that is happening to them, the American public clings to the notion that the government system that rules them is still the only reasonable way to try to make change (or they've given up and believe there is no other reasonable option as low voter turnout indicates).